Sinn Fein are not a Normal Political Party

[Meridian]

But I am not you are the one that has made up your mind on Sinn Féin by calling them scum, you can't see that before the Good Friday Agreement was another time.

You keep trying to make this about my language rather than the point I’m making. Whether you like the term I used or not doesn’t change the basic reality: you’re insisting that anything before the Good Friday Agreement belongs in a sealed box that can’t be discussed, while simultaneously treating other parts of Irish history as fair game.

Saying “that was another time” doesn’t answer the question. Every period of Irish history was “another time”.

The Civil War was another time. The War of Independence was another time.

Yet you’re perfectly happy to reference those when it suits your argument.

My view isn’t based on emotion — it’s based on consistency. If the past is irrelevant, then it’s irrelevant for everyone. If the past matters, then it matters for everyone.

You don’t get to decide that one era must be forgotten while another must be remembered simply because it’s politically convenient.

 

[daftbrush]

What about the battle of contarf.
Are we letting off tge Danes lightly

 

[King Silkbeard]

You keep trying to make this about my language rather than the point I’m making. Whether you like the term I used or not doesn’t change the basic reality: you’re insisting that anything before the Good Friday Agreement belongs in a sealed box that can’t be discussed, while simultaneously treating other parts of Irish history as fair game.

Saying “that was another time” doesn’t answer the question. Every period of Irish history was “another time”.

The Civil War was another time. The War of Independence was another time.

Yet you’re perfectly happy to reference those when it suits your argument.

My view isn’t based on emotion — it’s based on consistency. If the past is irrelevant, then it’s irrelevant for everyone. If the past matters, then it matters for everyone.

You don’t get to decide that one era must be forgotten while another must be remembered simply because it’s politically convenient.

You are based on emotion, you keep saying they are scum because you have a kneejerk reaction to them, the days of IRA up the North or the Republic are long gone, the dissidents never agreed with the GFA so you speak of Sinn Féin and them in the same way.

You can't distinguish between legitimate politicians and those who still have links to terrorism & criminality, that is why I always bang on about Syria you have a bunch of literal jihadists running a country.

 

[Meridian]

You are based on emotion, you keep saying they are scum because you have a kneejerk reaction to them, the days of IRA up the North or the Republic are long gone, the dissidents never agreed with the GFA so you speak of Sinn Féin and them in the same way.

You can't distinguish between legitimate politicians and those who still have links to terrorism & criminality, that is why I always bang on about Syria you have a bunch of literal jihadists running a country.

You keep repeating that I’m “emotional”, but that’s just a way of avoiding the actual argument. Pointing out contradictions in how you treat different parts of Irish history isn’t a knee‑jerk reaction — it’s a basic request for consistency.

Saying “the IRA days are long gone” doesn’t change the fact that Scum Fein’s past is part of the political record, just like the past of every other party.

You can’t declare one era untouchable while freely using other eras to support your own narrative.

And I’m perfectly capable of distinguishing between elected politicians and people involved in current criminality.
That’s exactly why historical context matters: you can’t pretend the past is irrelevant when it comes to one party, but meaningful when it comes to everyone else.
You keep trying to frame this as me failing to understand history, but you still haven’t addressed the core point: either history matters or it doesn’t.

You lot don’t get to switch that on and off depending on which party is being discussed.

 

[outdagap]

You’re interacting with me aren’t you?

I certainly don’t think a 50%+1 is the ceiling of what’s required. In fact if it’s likely to be as tight as that then the sos won’t hold the poll.

It’d be great if it was 100% (about as likely as Otto learning some history), or even 67%, but if it comes to it, and there is a vote, and it’s only 50%+1 that’s still a democratic majority.

There is no veto by either side. That’s a MINIMUM, not a maximum as you pretend

I'm tolerating more than interacting

Get off the stage, they're nowhere even near a 50+1 and your Shinners are calling for a BP now !

Yes, it'll never be 100% and it would be huge if it was 67%, but if it's 50+1 which is all SF have been aiming for, that means 49.999999% are against it. That's probably not far off all PUL, including the nutjobs.

The stupidity of the SF behaviour over the last 3 decades is to raise the likelihood of loyalist nutjobs restarting violence. Now that's not a veto but if it likely gets violent in the run up to the BPs, with violence even here in Cork, why would we take all that shit on, when we can just vote no in this BP ? That on top of the segregated education system, the huge economic cost, and of course the damage we will be doing to our own kids future, will make it a closer run thing than the Pollyanna Shinners imagine.

 

[outdagap]

Can you point out where I said the “campaign of murder and violence was justified”?

Do you think the founding fathers of this state were violent murderers btw?

We have had this conversation before, as you know, and I put that to you. Are you now changing your story ?

Are you now saying that the IRAs campaign of murder and violence was not justified ?

 

[outdagap]

Do you think the founding fathers of this state were violent murderers btw?

Some of them were, absolutely. I have already recounted that two of my mother's uncles were in the mid cork IRA, and one of them fought alongside Frank Busteed, who he said was a sadistic killer, and iirc it was him who butchered that protestant woman and her driver.

 

[Bwana_Dik]

See the thing that puzzles me is that SF/IRA have gone out of their way to antagonize the other side for the last 20-odd years in the executive and all other spheres, a zero sum game - we win, they lose.

The more logical approach IMHO would be to try to convince the PUL, or at least a significant minority, that a United Ireland would be a place they could prosper in and their culture etc would be cherished.
But no, fuck them, it's our turn to put the boot in.

I suppose the army council, the hard men (exclusively), can't change now.

 

[outdagap]

The problem here is that poor SF are all over the place on this and I blame the SF leadership or lack of leadership!

That's true, and I'll admit I didn't see it until the last few years, but the more I looked at them and their post GFA carry on, it's fairly obvious they're at best lazy, while those voting for them in NI have been terribly led. It's such a pity that Hume and Mallon were so old at that point and the SDLP fell apart, however Northern nationalists have signed up to be treated like mugs by SFNI, so I don't have much sympathy for them. The problem for you and me (and our families) is that the vast majority of people down here are switched off as regards anything to do with NI, and don't realise the shit show that could befall us by taking in a NI that is clearly nowhere ready.

Take the question of Irish unity.
What does the SF wasters think of this article from one of their leaders Michelle O’Neill?
Do they agree with her?
HaHa,
Watch them scatter!

People are not waking up thinking about Irish unity, says O’Neill

Opinion poll in Northern Ireland found fewer than one in three would vote for unification

www.irishtimes.com

Knowing that the article is 4 years old, we can look back with hindsight that what sounded interesting turned out to be hollow. Sinn Fein are naive to think they can flick a switch and have unionists work with them. They had already wasted 25 years by 2022 in not building trust with unionists, so it wasn't just the 30 years of a conflict, but then followed it with 25+ years of obstructionism and goading. I thought this was particularly on point....

The comments from Sinn Féin’s Stormont leader at a pre-election business event in Belfast also came amid claims from the DUP that her party is fixated with pushing for a unity referendum, and was failing to prioritise those struggling to pay their bills.

 

[outdagap]

You lot keep saying I “lack knowledge of history”, but all you’ve done here is recycle a romanticised version of Irish rebellion and then use it as a blanket justification for anything Scum Fein or the PIRA ever did.
A tradition of rebellion doesn’t automatically legitimise every action taken under that banner, and it certainly doesn’t mean people today have to ignore the parts of that history that were destructive.

This.