Sinn Fein are not a Normal Political Party

[PROCNA2018]

Economics will be a large part of it but it's not the only reason to vote no.

People here in the Republic of Ireland will be furious when they find out that there's been a deliberate policy by the Shinners since the GFA to block economic development in NI to load a huge burden on the UK exchequer, in the expectation that the Free Staters will pick up the tab in the event of a UI. This is a variation of their pre GFA bombing campaign to extract a heavy price on the UK.

People here are also going to be pissed off as well when they discover the barrel of sectarian shite we'd be signing up for, not just the prospect of the Shinner apes taunting the loyalist nutjobs, sparking off large scale violence. Even beyond that, they whole lot of them are so fucked up, there would be a very likely breeding ground for the far right, just as there is with the AfD in East Germany.

And after all that, a UI would be a sellout of our current position within the Republic of Ireland. That's not understood by people down here, it would be a massive act of self harm.

Said this before but the first paragraph is laughable.
Secondly, you seem to think we have to want it to happen, as in a BP, we don't.

A UI is the natural position for the island, denied against democratic mandate and under threat of terrible war in 1921 when we abandoned the 6 counties. Then we drew an equivalence which was never there between statements fact in Articles 2 and 3 and the Government of Ireland Act 1920 which had no more.legitimacy than the existence of the empire in Ireland in 1916.

The GFA has no prerequisites or precondition except an SoS believing a majority in the North want change and those numbers will be there in the next 5 years. We can put up new barriers to its democratic expression like an Taoiseach continues to do or we can plan for it to avoid a Brexit type scenario. Planning is clearly the best way to do but it's not a requirement for the BP to be held. People forget that there is more of a majority for unity now than there is for the status quo but that democratic deficit is baked into the GFA.

Lastly, we can well afford it. The 15 billion annual subvention which WM uses to specifically do what is claimed SF do above, i.e. maintain a political and economic stalemate so NI can't grow and is not attracting inward FDI like we are precisely to ensure its post Brexit Windsor Framework is not used to drive a further wedge between Belfast and London.

We wouldn't inherit the subvention, we would gain the entire island tax take and we would then attract massive inward FDI not to mention EU funding for reunification per the precedent set in Germany.

So in short, if you're a nationalist in Derry or West Belfast reading this thread it's a bit of a further kick in the teeth. Not only were you abandoned to burnouts, no jobs, no votes and no housing and murder from 1923 onwards, you've had to endure centenary celebrations of a freedom fought for the entire island, a proclamation read every Easter Sunday which was read on your behalf but not extended to ya and people down here on the "we're alright Jack" shtick just because of the luck of geography.

To be clear I understand the GFA moved the posts away from righting the wrong to dealing with the people reality of what was then a 55 45 split. I am happy to have flag changes, anthem changes, holiday changes, national.language changes, citizenship rights perpetuated into the future etc and other elements as part of a planned future Ireland. But let's be clear, the GFA is clear, we don't have to want a BP to happen for it to happen. Democracy in 98 and democracy in NI now has to be respected.

That outdagap and others here will vote No to unity is their prerogative and I respect that.

 

[Meridian]

Said this before but the first paragraph is laughable.
Secondly, you seem to think we have to want it to happen, as in a BP, we don't.

A UI is the natural position for the island, denied against democratic mandate and under threat of terrible war in 1921 when we abandoned the 6 counties. Then we drew an equivalence which was never there between statements fact in Articles 2 and 3 and the Government of Ireland Act 1920 which had no more.legitimacy than the existence of the empire in Ireland in 1916.

The GFA has no prerequisites or precondition except an SoS believing a majority in the North want change and those numbers will be there in the next 5 years. We can put up new barriers to its democratic expression like an Taoiseach continues to do or we can plan for it to avoid a Brexit type scenario. Planning is clearly the best way to do but it's not a requirement for the BP to be held. People forget that there is more of a majority for unity now than there is for the status quo but that democratic deficit is baked into the GFA.

Lastly, we can well afford it. The 15 billion annual subvention which WM uses to specifically do what is claimed SF do above, i.e. maintain a political and economic stalemate so NI can't grow and is not attracting inward FDI like we are precisely to ensure its post Brexit Windsor Framework is not used to drive a further wedge between Belfast and London.

We wouldn't inherit the subvention, we would gain the entire island tax take and we would then attract massive inward FDI not to mention EU funding for reunification per the precedent set in Germany.

So in short, if you're a nationalist in Derry or West Belfast reading this thread it's a bit of a further kick in the teeth. Not only were you abandoned to burnouts, no jobs, no votes and no housing and murder from 1923 onwards, you've had to endure centenary celebrations of a freedom fought for the entire island, a proclamation read every Easter Sunday which was read on your behalf but not extended to ya and people down here on the "we're alright Jack" shtick just because of the luck of geography.

To be clear I understand the GFA moved the posts away from righting the wrong to dealing with the people reality of what was then a 55 45 split. I am happy to have flag changes, anthem changes, holiday changes, national.language changes, citizenship rights perpetuated into the future etc and other elements as part of a planned future Ireland. But let's be clear, the GFA is clear, we don't have to want a BP to happen for it to happen. Democracy in 98 and democracy in NI now has to be respected.

That outdagap and others here will vote No to unity is their prerogative and I respect that.

Are you in Ireland or posting from abroad ?

 

[PROCNA2018]

Are you in Ireland or posting from abroad ?

I live close to Ringaskiddy

 

[jimmym]

Said this before but the first paragraph is laughable.
Secondly, you seem to think we have to want it to happen, as in a BP, we don't.

A UI is the natural position for the island, denied against democratic mandate and under threat of terrible war in 1921 when we abandoned the 6 counties. Then we drew an equivalence which was never there between statements fact in Articles 2 and 3 and the Government of Ireland Act 1920 which had no more.legitimacy than the existence of the empire in Ireland in 1916.

The GFA has no prerequisites or precondition except an SoS believing a majority in the North want change and those numbers will be there in the next 5 years. We can put up new barriers to its democratic expression like an Taoiseach continues to do or we can plan for it to avoid a Brexit type scenario. Planning is clearly the best way to do but it's not a requirement for the BP to be held. People forget that there is more of a majority for unity now than there is for the status quo but that democratic deficit is baked into the GFA.

Lastly, we can well afford it. The 15 billion annual subvention which WM uses to specifically do what is claimed SF do above, i.e. maintain a political and economic stalemate so NI can't grow and is not attracting inward FDI like we are precisely to ensure its post Brexit Windsor Framework is not used to drive a further wedge between Belfast and London.

We wouldn't inherit the subvention, we would gain the entire island tax take and we would then attract massive inward FDI not to mention EU funding for reunification per the precedent set in Germany.

So in short, if you're a nationalist in Derry or West Belfast reading this thread it's a bit of a further kick in the teeth. Not only were you abandoned to burnouts, no jobs, no votes and no housing and murder from 1923 onwards, you've had to endure centenary celebrations of a freedom fought for the entire island, a proclamation read every Easter Sunday which was read on your behalf but not extended to ya and people down here on the "we're alright Jack" shtick just because of the luck of geography.

To be clear I understand the GFA moved the posts away from righting the wrong to dealing with the people reality of what was then a 55 45 split. I am happy to have flag changes, anthem changes, holiday changes, national.language changes, citizenship rights perpetuated into the future etc and other elements as part of a planned future Ireland. But let's be clear, the GFA is clear, we don't have to want a BP to happen for it to happen. Democracy in 98 and democracy in NI now has to be respected.

That outdagap and others here will vote No to unity is their prerogative and I respect that.

The flag and anthem are interesting, You could have a dyed in the wool FG voter who might be lukewarm re a UI but will defend the flag and anthem for all he is worth, Some people are mistaken in the belief that only ardent republicans love the flag and anthem.

 

[Yermon]

MLMD said everybody would be better off in a UI, Maybe she is right, Maybe she is wrong, Warm words of reconciliation are fine but it will
all come down to economics, John Fitzgerald in a recent article said 1/4 of people in the north are on some form of disability benefit,
Double the number of down south, So many factors have to be discussed, There is no point one crowd producing a report from a pro unity
perspective and the other side producing one from an anti unity side, All should be independently examined,

Tell me you want to live in an Economy rather than in a Society. Shur why bother seeing after the financially less well off even if they are Irish - isn't that right jimmy

 

[Yermon]

The flag and anthem are interesting, You could have a dyed in the wool FG voter who might be lukewarm re a UI but will defend the flag and anthem for all he is worth, Some people are mistaken in the belief that only ardent republicans love the flag and anthem.

You should check out Charlie Flanigan's account online. It's got a Union Flag before a Tricolour on it

 

[Yermon]

Economics will be a large part of it but it's not the only reason to vote no.

People here in the Republic of Ireland will be furious when they find out that there's been a deliberate policy by the Shinners since the GFA to block economic development in NI to load a huge burden on the UK exchequer, in the expectation that the Free Staters will pick up the tab in the event of a UI. This is a variation of their pre GFA bombing campaign to extract a heavy price on the UK.

People here are also going to be pissed off as well when they discover the barrel of sectarian shite we'd be signing up for, not just the prospect of the Shinner apes taunting the loyalist nutjobs, sparking off large scale violence. Even beyond that, they whole lot of them are so fucked up, there would be a very likely breeding ground for the far right, just as there is with the AfD in East Germany.

And after all that, a UI would be a sellout of our current position within the Republic of Ireland. That's not understood by people down here, it would be a massive act of self harm.

Complete and utter BS - but hey, why let the facts interfere with a good old anti-SF rant

 

[jimmym]

Tell me you want to live in an Economy rather than in a Society. Shur why bother seeing after the financially less well off even if they are Irish - isn't that right jimmy

My financial security is my priority, Anybody who says otherwise is a liar, Politicians across the divide may say otherwise but they are quiet happy to feather their own nest,

 

[Yermon]

My financial security is my priority, Anybody who says otherwise is a liar, Politicians across the divide may say otherwise but they are quiet happy to feather their own nest,

Yes jimmy, nobody could deny your financial security is your priority, but not everyone is as fixated on money as you. Did you ever make a donation to charity by the way?

Some people, you mightn't understand their priorities, might put Irish reUnification higher than having a foreign holiday, or two, or ten. Or having a flash car.

Your house must be chock full of ladders given the amount of them you pull up!

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Imagine discussing the UI economy with misty eyed republicans and SF canvassers. You would be better off discussing algebra with a cat