Sex Education for Primary school....

[Matlock]

Stupid comment. I have often see a strong girl play with the boys even up to u14. Totally differet. The girl is not putting the boys in danger and she is she isn't pushing everyone accept her as a boy and looking to access changing facilities or any of that absurdity.

Totally different to what? The imagined scenario you have made up in your head to demonise trans people? I wasn't a girl on a boy's team, it was a mixed team.

Douglas merged LGFA, GAA and Camogie to the One Club model. Year 1 they played u5 and u6 boys and girls together for street leagues finals to as the poster child for One Club. Never again they said it was a total disaster. Boys dominated all the games, only a handful of girls able to hold their own. Loads of weaker girls going off crying. That is u5 & u6. Boys are built different.

You want to open the door for 12 / 13 year old boys to play with the girls and then to tell them and their parents to suck it up if they don't like it.

No tests, no science, just boy says he is a girl. You are living in cloud cookoo land.

Trans people exist. You telling them that they don't have the right to exist will not stop them from existing. As trans people gain more rights and more acceptance in mainstream society we will have to come up with ways to deal with sports, and with bathrooms and communal showers. They are small issues though, and we will come up with ways around them.

Fundamentally though, just because you don't agree with someone else's identity, it doesn't give you the right to demand that they cease to exist.

 

[El Guapo]

Douglas merged LGFA, GAA and Camogie to the One Club model. Year 1 they played u5 and u6 boys and girls together for street leagues finals to as the poster child for One Club. Never again they said it was a total disaster. Boys dominated all the games, only a handful of girls able to hold their own. Loads of weaker girls going off crying. That is u5 & u6. Boys are built different.

I've been coaching kids GAA for almost 4 years now, U5-U8, Boys

I've been coaching Athletics for about 6 months, Boys and Girls aged U7, U8,U9 and U10.

my observations on this would be the individual rates of development are far more of an influence than differences between sexes at that age.

I would say 4 of the best 5 in the athletics are girls, basically because they have better physical literacy than boys of the same age, they all run jump and throw better than their peers. i know this will all change when they hit puberty.

In the GAA, the challange in that age group is stopping the boys who are more physically developed dominating and to stop the rest of them switching off and self identifying as being shite at age 6. Because when they hit puberty again all bets are off.

It is true that boys will start out performing girls from around aged 6 in physical tests but not to a great dregree and if a coach is getting 6,7 and 8 year olds to perform max pushups and shuttle runs and the like they are not a good coach.

Also its close to impossible to isolate the influence of sex from that of social influence..Boys are pushed into sport early by parents in a way that girls arent (i would push them all in if i was king) and have social influence in the form of peers and perhaps elder siblings playing sport. Up to puberty its probably not sex, after puberty its a mix of sex and genetics.

Just as if a player is dominating a street leagues and isn't there isnt a few players added into the opposition to balance things or he isn't forced pass the ball and work on skills they are a bad coach.

But none if this has anything at all to do with primary school sex education nor transgender kids in sport or elsewhere

 

[El Guapo]

Totally different to what? The imagined scenario you have made up in your head to demonise trans people? I wasn't a girl on a boy's team, it was a mixed team.


Trans people exist. You telling them that they don't have the right to exist will not stop them from existing. As trans people gain more rights and more acceptance in mainstream society we will have to come up with ways to deal with sports, and with bathrooms and communal showers. They are small issues though, and we will come up with ways around them.

Fundamentally though, just because you don't agree with someone else's identity, it doesn't give you the right to demand that they cease to exist.

Yes i agree with this.

One of the pillars of society is inclusion, Particularly in sport. if inclusion is possible it shouldn't matter who the person is society needs to facilitate them in some way.

Whether you think that trans people are freaks of nature and an affront God or whether you think they are being their authentic selves is immaterial. society has an obligation to facilitate them. Whether you like it or not.

I don't think its possible to do so fairly in most sport after puberty.

But no way they should be excluded from Dance class, Swimming lessons, PE at school, Darts, Archery etc etc. All non competitive, or skill based endeavours.

After that we all kind of have to deal with it.

But again this is nothing to do with primary school sex ed

 

[dmc]

Lads ye can whaffle about all ye want. A boy claiming to be a girl is not a girl. Simple. There is a huge difference between boys and girls long before puberty.

@Matlock you made an ape of yourself with your shameful comments on girls sports.

But no way they should be excluded from Dance class, Swimming lessons, PE at school, Darts, Archery etc etc. All non competitive, or skill based endeavours.

Not a hope. You just make a joke of girls categories if you say that all a boy has to do is "I identify as a girl" to part take.

What if all the boys decide to take the piss and take over? There is zero science behind your nonsense so what do your do? Let the boys ruin it for all the girls?

Are we not allowed have any girls categories anymore unless the sport puts them physical danger?

Trans people exist. You telling them that they don't have the right to exist will not stop them from existing.

Never said that. Just if they want to compete they need to stay in their actual gender. They one that they would be identified as if their skeleton was dug up in a few hundred years not. Stay out of womens spaces and designated sport. They have no business being there. Pretending a male identifying as a female and actually being female is utter BS.

Simple solution, organise another category for males who identify as female if they want. Campaign for a 3rd bathroom unisex type to become common place it they want.

 

[Matlock]

Lads ye can whaffle about all ye want. A boy claiming to be a girl is not a girl. Simple. There is a huge difference between boys and girls long before puberty.

That's your opinion. We all get that that's your opinion. However, despite your opinion, trans people continue to exist.

@Matlock you made an ape of yourself with your shameful comments on girls sports.

I have managed to carry out this entire discussion with you without having to resort to insults. Pity you couldn't manage the same.

Not a hope. You just make a joke of girls categories if you say that all a boy has to do is "I identify as a girl" to part take.

What if all the boys decide to take the piss and take over? There is zero science behind your nonsense so what do your do? Let the boys ruin it for all the girls?

Are we not allowed have any girls categories anymore unless the sport puts them physical danger?

Again, we all get that this is your opinion.

Never said that. Just if they want to compete they need to stay in their actual gender. They one that they would be identified as if their skeleton was dug up in a few hundred years not. Stay out of womens spaces and designated sport. They have no business being there. Pretending a male identifying as a female and actually being female is utter BS.

Simple solution, organise another category for males who identify as female if they want. Campaign for a 3rd bathroom unisex type to become common place it they want.

It's not their "actual gender" though. Not to them, as they are trans people. We all get that that's your opinion, but you don't get to force that on others.

In sports where a strength difference/speed difference is important we will need to come up with rules that ensure that everyone is safe. That will probably involve a level of exclusion of some trans people. In all sports were that's not a feature, trans people should be free to compete in their preferred class.

 

[TheRebelRoar]

But again this is nothing to do with primary school sex ed

Agreed.

Indoctrinating young children with this stuff is potentially very harmful in the longterm and certainly has no business on the curriculum.

The vast majority of public submissions on the topic are against it being taught. When the objectionable material becomes public you will have another game of pass the parcel in terms of who is responsible.

 

[El Guapo]

Are we not allowed have any girls categories anymore unless the sport puts them physical danger?


Never said that. Just if they want to compete they need to stay in their actual gender. They one that they would be identified as if their skeleton was dug up in a few hundred years not. Stay out of womens spaces and designated sport. They have no business being there. Pretending a male identifying as a female and actually being female is utter BS.

Simple solution, organise another category for males who identify as female if they want. Campaign for a 3rd bathroom unisex type to become common place it they want.

I have been consistent in my position across multiple threads that segregated sport based on sex is vital so don't pretend that I haven't been. There should be open categories (Men and Intersex or Trans women) and XX categories for Women..

Each of the instances i listed are already non categorised.

Dance Classes doesn't matter if a kid wants to dance does it?

Swimming classes: learning to swim. A vital life skill. Completly different to competitive swimming.

PE at school in my school was fully integrated. You were doing it whether you liked it or not and proper order. Its for all pulpils.

If a kid insists on different changing arrangements I would facilitate so they can participate but the primary adjudicator is sex not gender after that I don't give a shit really but you can't just shout at them to fuck off because nothing in life can nor should work like that

Then there are sports that are based on skill..Why Categorise these at all? Darts, Archery, Bowling, Snooker, Pool, Chess..If you can tell me that the physical advantages men have make this unfair to women no problem keep sex based categories.

I fully disagree with 3rd categorisation for sport. They do that many marathons so the prize money gets split 3 ways not two.

Guess what? biological males take all the non binary prize money home so the overall pool of money winnable by females is reduced. Because it is sex that matters not gender

 

[dmc]

There should be open categories (Men and Intersex or Trans women) and XX categories for Women..

On that I agree but as well as male and female categories. Problem is no women would enter aside from a few virtue signalers so it would just be like another men's category if men would even enter.

Swimming classes: learning to swim. A vital life skill. Completly different to competitive swimming.

Sure but if someone wants to organise girls swim training for what ever reason they are more than entitled to do so and shouldn't have to open it up to boys.

Then there are sports that are based on skill..Why Categorise these at all? Darts, Archery, Bowling, Snooker, Pool, Chess..If you can tell me that the physical advantages men have make this unfair to women no problem keep sex based categories.

I think there was a female chess play once in the history of chess who ranked top 10 and Fallon Sherrock is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 in the world in darts. The only woman in the history of that sports to do so.

Absolute exceptions. Are you suggesting women's category be scrapped and these guys need to beat all the men to be world champ? Have to compete against men in every local tournament?

Great way to make to destroy participation levels in women's sports and set them back 100 years.

 

[El Guapo]

On that I agree but as well as male and female categories. Problem is no women would enter aside from a few virtue signalers so it would just be like another men's category if men would even enter.


Sure but if someone wants to organise girls swim training for what ever reason they are more than entitled to do so and shouldn't have to open it up to boys.



I think there was a female chess play once in the history of chess who ranked top 10 and Fallon Sherrock is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 in the world in darts. The only woman in the history of that sports to do so.

Absolute exceptions. Are you suggesting women's category be scrapped and these guys need to beat all the men to be world champ? Have to compete against men in every local tournament?

Great way to make to destroy participation levels in women's sports and set them back 100 years.

I'm more or less done with this thread. I've made my points and i don't really care enough beyond what I've already said.

You already know my answer I've given it in almost every post. All of life particularly sport should strive for inclusion. Sometimes that can't be done so i say split on sex not gender.

You want categories based on gender (male female and open is my understanding) I think this is asinine and removes money and opportunity from biologocal females. But grand if you feel that strongly split resources in coaching, time, money and volunteers three ways to prove a point.

if you care so much about female chess or darts i would suggest a split on sex not gender (quell surprise) and write a letter to your TD and to the appropriate governing bodies requesting additional coaching and funding for girls in those sports.

I would assume a societal reason for differences in the sexes across those domains. I think an assumption that females are less able cognitively for chess or less able to consistently acquire the skill of throwing a dart than a man is flawed, the answer lies elsewhere. But again sex not gender, drive on.

If you want to have a girls only swimming lesson. grand. i think that is a terrible idea that should be consigned to history, along with Single sex education, and segregation based on religious beliefs, and men's only clubs. we can disagree, the sun will rise tomorrow.

I get that women can have and need safe spaces. I think womens only sports tournaments and events are a great idea. Equal does not have to mean the same.

And none of this has anything at all to do with Primary school sex ed.

 

[dmc]

And none of this has anything at all to do with Primary school sex ed.

Establishing that there boy and girls are not the same and that a man can not be a woman is the key to establishing that what is being thought in SPHE is BS.

But grand if you feel that strongly split resources in coaching, time, money and volunteers three ways to prove a point.

I feel strongly that males a can not flip over to being females. Actual females are entitled to female only categories. Anyone who buys in to this gender switching should be free to compete in the stronger male category. Alternatively they can campaign to a 3rd open category. That's up to them, do their own promotion and seeking funding like womens sports have had to do. Don't expect an automatic funding split.

If you want to have a girls only swimming lesson. grand. i think that is a terrible idea that should be consigned to history

In many cases the gender balance is a good thing, I prefer co-ed schools but female only should always be an option. The swim coach mightn't want to teach males. Girls might feel more comfortable in the pool with out boys for a variety of issues, self consciousness in swim ware whatever.

The age girls get self particularly self conscious is the same age there is a huge drop out form girls sports. It that not enough reason to allow them have a girls only class it there is desire for it? It is good for girls but doesn't suit the blurring of gender lines narrative.

I think an assumption that females are less able cognitively for chess or less able to consistently acquire the skill of throwing a dart than a man is flawed, the answer lies elsewhere.

No assumptions but zero female world champs in open classes across the sports you mention. Maybe one or two females will crack it in the next 100 years but you have denied 100's of female competitors the opportunity of competing a the top level of their sports by eliminating the female only categories. Remember the can't see it can't be it campaign. Almost total black out there. What will that will that do for female participation levels? A price worth paying to facilitate this totally unscientific gender ideology?

But again sex not gender, drive on.

Sorry not buying this gender is a social construct nonsense.