Schools told not to accept psychologists’ reports for Irish exemptions

An absolute waste of time forcing people to learn a useless, dead language like Irish. Given how the makeup of our society is changing, I can see Irish becoming an optional subject at some point, and I doubt there'll be much take up of it.
There's a trick being missed by not tackling the Irish question from a woke angle. "It's our national language", "It's our language", "It's the language of our ancestors". Those are very problematic statements from a certain perspective.

Pointless exercise, learning something you'll never use. If you demonstrate skill at it and want to pursue it, you should be able to, but it's madness to foist it on people who'll never use it. Same with maths. I have never--not once--used maths since finishing school.
 
Last edited:
There's a trick being missed by not tackling the Irish question from a woke angle. "It's our national language", "It's our language", "It's the language of our ancestors". Those are very problematic statements from a certain perspective.

Pointless exercise, learning something you'll never use. If you demonstrate skill at it and want to pursue it, you should be able to, but it's madness to foist it on people who'll never use it. Same with maths. I have never--not once--used maths since finishing school.
I hope that’s a joke.

Filling your car? Calculating 3 for 2 deals when shopping? Working out at 10% tip? Cooking a chicken by weight? Dishing out the pizza? I could go on
 
It's something of a catch 22. The status quo isn't really doing it. I agree with that, but remove the stick of compulsory study it'd need to be replaced with a seriously tasty carrot to spur a revival.

If you just remove compulsory at the LC you are Preserving it so that it will exclusively be used by an academic minority strictly for didactic purposes. Where really what you want is for people to use the language in their daily lives as much as possible and interact with it, as a vibrant, dynamic language and not just as a set of rules for grammer and tested to be studied and tested and dropped.

I think whoever said that the pandemic was a missed opportunity for a reset is spot on.

I think it'll take huge program of adult literacy to help the kids along with a further expansion of Gaelscoileanna at primary level. I'd be less concerned about post primary. Kids should have better grasp at that point and should be able to go for pass or foundation Irish. The fact that foundation Irish (or maths) doesn't count for matriculation purposes is bollocks but I think it should be compulsory. Even if its learning for learning sake and not for a career. that's okay too. not everything needs to be laser focused on points and college and a good job.

We are all adults here and we all carry bias from out teaching. Maybe many of us have internalised that "it's a dead language" and "it'll never be useful" as kids from our parents who had it beaten them by nuns and priests.

Maybe the adult Fluency program will give parents a chance to support their kids and not be embarrassed by their lack of Fluency from school. It worked In Wales and Israel.

if you don't need Gaeilge to get a publi sector job Maybe it should be retained as a means of promotion within the services.

Maybe there would be massive subsidies on Residential long term and short term language camps so you could go to kerry or connemara or wherever in your 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Have craic, drink pints, meet people and learn the language in an immerse setting.

Maybe after 40 years of that we would have a pride in our language to rival the esteem we hold our music, culture and sport too.
We've had a century of compulsory Irish, using Irish as the first daily language is not going to happen, that's the reality. The main reason Gaelscoileanna expanded to the point they have from the early 2000s, is down to not having to mix with non-national kids, many of whom had little English and were affecting the local kids, but of course the irony is that being taught through Irish was then affecting them in secondary schools.

The whole construct of it being our national language is tied up with the republican/nationalist propaganda, not much more than that and we're still paying the price.

Where the country is, forcing people to do something they don't WANT to do, is only killing it. If you want to overcome that, you'd be better off reducing to the core who actually want it, and build from the actual level of Irish speakers, which currently is 72,000 daily speakers.

Bear in mind that if there was a UI tomorrow, there is no way they could force Irish on the northern prods, so compulsory would have to go anyway.
 
I still think 6th class is too early to be giving them a choice. Many secondary students still head off to the Gaeltacht with their friends and have loved every minute of it. Made great friends and have benefited from speaking their national language in an every day setting which is how language should be taught and used.

By all means learn Chinese or German but it's a sad thing to hear people say Irish is a dead language. That's only being said by people who had negative experiences in school and never embraced the fact that it is part of our culture and part of our history.

It's our in-depth identity and a reason to be proud.
That would be the majority then !!!

This "in-depth identity" really is a nonsense phrase. A lot of us here were brought up in the Pre-GFA era where republican propaganda was widespread and all this hoary oul nationalism was pushed out to an unthinking population as if it were true. The reality is that we choose the culture that we want and the people have spoken, but just not Irish.

We have our independent Republic, and have moved on.

Having said ALL that, if the Irish language lobby had the courage, they should

  1. Agree to the removal of the compulsory Irish at LC, leaving it there up to JC, thus removing the biggest point of hate towards the language.
  2. OR, keep it compulsory but give the option of Exam or Non-exam at LC, so that those who want to do it can do so, but the rest could concentrate on just speaking it in class.
 
I hope that’s a joke.

Filling your car? Calculating 3 for 2 deals when shopping? Working out at 10% tip? Cooking a chicken by weight? Dishing out the pizza? I could go on
That's all basic maths stuff that you should have learnt by JC. There's actually no need to have any of the 3 subjects remain compulsory. You COULD give the Maths bonus points to English and Irish as well, to encourage people to continue with those subjects to LC.
 
Only exemption should be for learning difficulties in my opinion, if anyone is offended by my opinion so be it.
Parent's conducting personal psychologists is the biggest waste of money ever and it's not worth the paper it's written on in the views of not only schools but also department of education.
Yes sometimes Irish homework at home for primary school or even in 1st and 2nd Year parent might not be able to help as they don't understand Irish or have a learning difficulty themselves which is definitely tough and could lead to tension at home.

Same could be said for maths in those instances but we don't see anyone getting exemptions for maths.
Until students can get exemptions for maths and other compulsory subjects we can look at the debate then (never gonna happen)

The Leaving Cert itself is completely irrelevant in my eyes in this debate.
If you don't like Irish or don't need for post leaving cert and want to concentrate on other subjects then it's simple, drop to pass. Do the bare minimum.
To get an exemption for Leaving Cert there is certain criteria you need to meet the requirements set up by The Department.

Those of us who have Irish Nationality should be nurturing and supporting the language rather than giving Mickey Mouse excuses for our kids who do not have a learning disability, to me it's an insult to the parents of those who do have learning disabilities.
There is going to a shift anyway with young people due to the popularity of Kneecap.

I also agree we need to change and review way it's delivered.

I throw Cupla Focal around in work and my colleagues will give a smile and sometimes respond.

When watching a game on TG4 I won't know everything but I've a grasp on at least 50% plus of what's being said.
The irony is that is your choice, and the problem is that there is no choice except the Exemption.

The Exemption is the release pressure valve currently (it's quietly happening in the background), and by attacking it the language lobby will eventually force that pressure on to removing compulsory Irish at LC at least.

This is from the Irish Times today


More than 20,000 pupils with Irish exemptions studied European languages​

Dyslexia group says there are genuine reasons why students with additional needs go on to study French or German

More than 20,000 students who had exemptions from studying Irish at second level on the grounds of having a learning disability were studying other languages such as French, German and Spanish last year.

The figures come at a time of concern among some campaigners over the status of the Irish language due to the rising numbers of exemptions being awarded at second level, which have climbed from 3 per cent in 2000 to 13 per cent last year, or more than 55,000 students.

Irish is compulsory at primary and second level, though the Department of Education allows students to be excused on “exceptional” grounds such as learning difficulties or having been educated abroad.

Figures released to The Irish Times under the Freedom of Information Act show a large majority of students with an exemption for the study of Irish on the grounds of learning difficulties – 20,263 students – were studying a modern foreign language in the 2023-2024 academic year. Some in the education field believe some students may be securing exemptions to focus on other subjects against the backdrop of a highly competitive CAO points entry system to third level.

Minister for Education Norma Foley has defended the system of Irish exemptions, saying increases are due primarily to much greater rates of diagnosis of learning difficulties and more students who were educated abroad joining Irish schools.

She has noted that while exemption numbers have climbed at second level – from 9 per cent to 13 per cent since 2019 – they have fallen at primary level – from 3.25 per cent to 2.9 per cent.

Ms Foley told an Oireachtas committee last year that in the context of an estimated 25 per cent of students having a learning or additional need, it was “quite staggering” that just 7 per cent across primary and second level were availing of exemptions.

By contrast, the Joint Committee on the Irish language and Gaeltacht published a report last February recommending the abolition of the Irish exemptions system following the sharp increase in numbers granted in recent years at second level.
That's the only response you'd expect from them. It reminds me on the fella on the Late Late Show years ago who was against divorce coming in, "because he was afraid his wife would leave him" ! It's the same stupidity.
 
That would be the majority then !!!

This "in-depth identity" really is a nonsense phrase. A lot of us here were brought up in the Pre-GFA era where republican propaganda was widespread and all this hoary oul nationalism was pushed out to an unthinking population as if it were true. The reality is that we choose the culture that we want and the people have spoken, but just not Irish.

We have our independent Republic, and have moved on.

Having said ALL that, if the Irish language lobby had the courage, they should

  1. Agree to the removal of the compulsory Irish at LC, leaving it there up to JC, thus removing the biggest point of hate towards the language.
  2. OR, keep it compulsory but give the option of Exam or Non-exam at LC, so that those who want to do it can do so, but the rest could concentrate on just speaking it in class.
Well in depth identity is not a nonsense phrase to me.
As far as I'm concerned and the way I feel about who I am as an Irish person stems back to my acknowledgement that I am the present generation from the past generations whose first language was Irish.

All of our way of speaking, our turn of phrase , how we express ourselves is directly connected to the Irish language. There is a deep history attached to us as a nation regards same.

I don't know what pre-GFA era means but I agree that there is an unthinking population out there today who do not possess the same sense of identity and the same acknowledgement of our roots, our history our unique culture. For me that's the identity I have deep within my DNA.

I'm glad I was taught my national language. Having said that I understand there is a flawed system in the way it is taught in our schools. But I still think it's wrong to label it as a dead language or to render it not worthy of preservation.
 
EVENT GUIDE - HIGHLIGHT
When Harry Met Sally
Triskel Arts Centre, Tobin St.

14th Feb 2025 @ 6:00 pm
More info..

Sen Long

El Fenix, Tomorrow @ 9pm

More events ▼
Top