Robin Williams rip

[Crayons O'Neil]

Sister, that old line lost its impact in the '80s. In the First World, men are still miles ahead of women in terms of creativity.

No excuses.

It's a mans world.

 

[Afro_Samurai]

I'm sorry that you've had bad previous relationships (as it's either from this or from television that you have this perception), but I find it hard to imagine that either partner in a loving relationship would tell the other to 'man up' if they display emotion.

Your insinuation that women are the obstacle in men not blocking their emotions is crass and immature.

Not every emotion, just the ones they deem unmanly (when they've been nagging men for years to stop acting manly).

Sheesh! What do you girls want from us?

 

[Afro_Samurai]

It's a mans world.

It surely is. Wouldn't be nattin' without a woman or a girl, though, in fairness.

 

[D'oriel]

Sister, that old line lost its impact in the '80s. In the First World, men are still miles ahead of women in terms of creativity.

No excuses.

Losing impact doesn't mean losing truth.


You're showing yourself up, fish.

In the other thread you call the men 'weaklings'.
What is wrong with you?

 

[Afro_Samurai]

Losing impact doesn't mean losing truth.


You're showing yourself up in this thread, fish.

So, you're saying women in the First World don't have the same access to creative outlets as men?

Because literally nothing else explains the massive divide, besides men being naturally more creative.

 

[D'oriel]

I'm saying that it can take decades to build a reputation in the arts. I'm saying that despite most institutions 'allowing' women to join (such as Beaux-Arts), their work was ridiculed as 'craft' and that 'fine art' was still the realm of men. I'm saying that it wasn't until the 70s, with establishment of the feminist art moment that women started being taken seriously as artists.
Started to. These are incremental changes.

If you actually look at women in the arts, you'll see that the work is growing exponentially, and some are being heralded as masters of their art (clear example of this is slowly increasing numbers of female film directors, for instance). But it will still be quite some time before women are seen as equal. There is no country in Europe where there is equal pay across the board (equal pay for equal work), or where we have reached parity.
If you believe that equity of access has been achieved, then you're mistaken.

In any sector. Not just the arts.


(Incidentally, I never said women didn't have access to creative outlets. I can draw on a piece of paper in this hotel room and that's a creative outlet.)

 

[The Curious Lozenge]

ah come on ffs, if women excel in the arts, they will succeed. there is no glass ceiling there.

 

[Afro_Samurai]

(Incidentally, I never said women didn't have access to creative outlets. I can draw on a piece of paper in this hotel room and that's a creative outlet.)

Creative outlets on a world stage.

Tbh, women make babies and rear children. That is the biggest inhibitor. It's not that they're incapable; it's that they allow their lives to be co-opted by biology.

 

[Afro_Samurai]

ah come on ffs, if women excel in the arts, they will succeed. there is no glass ceiling there.

^This.

The gender card is a thread-worn and peeling thing.

 

[D'oriel]

ah come on ffs, if women excel in the arts, they will succeed. there is no glass ceiling there.

I don't disagree.


I'm saying that women are relatively new to the arts as a result of huge obstacles to access.
Now they're gone, women are becoming established.
Fishy believes that all the GREATS are male because men are more creative. Which is rubbish. People are creative to varying degrees, unrelated to gender. More and more women are being recognised as excellent in their field, and I think in a few decades, those who fishy calls 'great' will be more in balance. But recognition and mastering talent didn't happen across the board in 1975, like!


P.S. - I have accepted up to now that his vague titulation of 'greats' is of modern representation, this is to what I'm referring. If it's in relation to classic greats - Mozart, Beethoven, Michelangelo, Picasso, Palladio, etc., then that isn't open to discussion. For every Jane Austen, there were 3 Mr. Bells.