Protecting the Integrity of Fair competition in Womens Sport

[dukeroyale]

He was putting personal responsibility for it on Khalif, though.

i didn’t pick up on it that way. i thought it was a hamfisted way of saying she should be barred from all comps if she’s barred by one committee/association.

unless OP tells me different.

 

[poulgorm]

What I was really trying to say was that if you can do something, it doesn't mean that you should do it. Khalif has an inbuilt advantage over other women boxers. Matlock made the point that Khalif should not be criticised.
I don't agree.

 

[TheRebelRoar]

What I was really trying to say was that if you can do something, it doesn't mean that you should do it. Khalif has an inbuilt advantage over other women boxers.

Some, Khalif was beaten by Kelly Harrington and Amy Broadhurst and 7 other women boxers.

 

[Matlock]

What I was really trying to say was that if you can do something, it doesn't mean that you should do it. Khalif has an inbuilt advantage over other women boxers. Matlock made the point that Khalif should not be criticised.
I don't agree.

Many female boxers have beaten her though.

She was cleared to box in the Olympic. I assume she (like most other athletes at that level) has given years of her life to training for this moment. To expect her to bow out is ridiculous imo.

Paul O Donovan probably has a genetic advantage as a rower. Phelps did as a swimmer. I am sure there are loads of other examples. Would you expect all of those people to step aside too?

 

[Nollaig O Muracu]

TonyCork made a good point about when an athlete that comes along with the same skills as a Kellie Harrington and the inbuilt advantage.

That would be extremely dangerous for female boxers. It's tough, but I don't think we can allow that to happen.

But yes, trans people should be treated with respect and allowed to participate as fully as possible in society. The pile on on Khalif was way OTT but I think some of it was down to ignorance, my own included. Tbh, I had never heard of DSD and thought it was a woman born a man at first.

 

[TheRebelRoar]

Don't know if posted before but a good read. One interest thing is the evasiveness of the IBA to confirm the actually tests carried out.

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting: What does science tell us about boxing’s gender row in Olympics?

Research is shedding light on different chromosomal make-ups and what advantages they may bring to sport.

www.bbc.com

 

[Twiceasnice97]

Matlock said "Whether or not Khalif should have been allowed to compete, she was allowed to compete and to demonise her for it is not on, imo". I think that is a questionable statement. For example, some governments allow people to be tortured. So the torturers should never be prosecuted? A somewhat extreme example, but it illustrates my point. The IOC should never have allowed Khalif to participate in women's boxing - the International Boxing Association had banned her. And Khalif herself is not above criticism for availing of the IOC's mistake. That's my view, anyway.

are you familiar with the process by which the IBA banned her?

She was competing in the worlds until she beat a russian then suddenly she was banned by Umar Kremlev the russian president. The IBA have never sent her or her team the judgement and the grounds for the ban.
Thats a totally corrupt organisation.

Robert Griffin III on Instagram: "Imane Khelif is a biological woman and shouldn’t be used to push political agendas or certain narratives. #paris #olympics #algeria #imane #khelif"

18K likes, 1,495 comments - rgiii on August 2, 2024: "Imane Khelif is a biological woman and shouldn’t be used to push political agendas or certain narratives. #paris #olympics #algeria #imane #khelif".

www.instagram.com

The Issue Of Gender And Winning Over It: The Case Of Imane Khelif - IMPRI Impact And Policy Research Institute

The Algerian Boxer, Imane Khelif made a historic victory by winning the gold medal at the Paris Olympics 2024 in the women's 66 kg final boxing at the same time overcoming online abuse and criticism against her gender identity.

www.impriindia.com

 

[Twiceasnice97]

Many female boxers have beaten her though.

She was cleared to box in the Olympic. I assume she (like most other athletes at that level) has given years of her life to training for this moment. To expect her to bow out is ridiculous imo.

Paul O Donovan probably has a genetic advantage as a rower. Phelps did as a swimmer. I am sure there are loads of other examples. Would you expect all of those people to step aside too?

Phelps advantages were insane.
How would you word a rule that wouldn't end up banning someone like him

Why Michael Phelps Has the Perfect Body for Swimming

With his extra-long torso and flipper-like feet, it’s no wonder the Olympian is nicknamed the “Flying Fish.”

www.biography.com

 

[El Guapo]

Phelps advantages were insane.
How would you word a rule that wouldn't end up banning someone like him

Why Michael Phelps Has the Perfect Body for Swimming

With his extra-long torso and flipper-like feet, it’s no wonder the Olympian is nicknamed the “Flying Fish.”

www.biography.com

I think i understand the point Matlock was making. but she can correct me if i am wrong.
I think it was Peopleluas saying that Khalif shoud have stepped aside knowing she had an advantage.

I would say that from Khalifs perspective she was perfectly within her rights because she is a female to fight as a female so why would she ever step aside?

The rules of this competition stated that sex as written in the athletes passport would qualify them for the competition. Not a successful presentation of a chromosomal test or anything else.

i know of no sportsperson who would give up any advantage they have in any elite sport that's just not how sport works. We may have notions that people should be sporting but we those notions are misguided at best in elite sport.

Michel Phelps is about as far from a average as you can get. Long arm, narrow hips, big feet etc. He has an advantage and is exceptional but he is within his category.

Equating the advantages Phelps has misses the point i think. 100% of the athletes we see have some visible or invisible characteristics which makes them great and the rest of us seem like a different species of also rans.
But critically we don't protect other categories just the female one.

This matters because we can celebrate both Michael Phelps and say Katie Ledeky in equal measure with no second guessing or prevarication for the exceptional sports people they are.

One could of course protect other categories if so inclined. I guarantee that the world short arse basketball champs or whatever wouldn't be much of a spectacle in comparison to the NBA.

That's what happens if you fail to protect the female category you get to see Athletically average or slightly above average men instead of exceptional women.

 

[Twiceasnice97]

I think i understand the point Matlock was making. but she can correct me if i am wrong.
I think it was Peopleluas saying that Khalif shoud have stepped aside knowing she had an advantage.

I would say that from Khalifs perspective she was perfectly within her rights because she is a female to fight as a female so why would she ever step aside?

The rules of this competition stated that sex as written in the athletes passport would qualify them for the competition. Not a successful presentation of a chromosomal test or anything else.

i know of no sportsperson who would give up any advantage they have in any elite sport that's just not how sport works. We may have notions that people should be sporting but we those notions are misguided at best in elite sport.

Michel Phelps is about as far from a average as you can get. Long arm, narrow hips, big feet etc. He has an advantage and is exceptional but he is within his category.

Equating the advantages Phelps has misses the point i think. 100% of the athletes we see have some visible or invisible characteristics which makes them great and the rest of us seem like a different species of also rans.
But critically we don't protect other categories just the female one.

This matters because we can celebrate both Michael Phelps and say Katie Ledeky in equal measure with no second guessing or prevarication for the exceptional sports people they are.

One could of course protect other categories if so inclined. I guarantee that the world short arse basketball champs or whatever wouldn't be much of a spectacle in comparison to the NBA.

That's what happens if you fail to protect the female category you get to see Athletically average or slightly above average men instead of exceptional women.

Except this girl is a girl in every sense of the word beyond elevated testosterone levels produced through a natural physiological freak of nature.

Its not as if she arrived and started battering everyone. She was beaten 9 times.