Pre Celtic Tiger Ireland

South Korea is the most remarkable of the whole lot.

In 1953, at the end of the Korean war, it had approximately the same GDP per capita as Rwanda.

Over the prior 50 years it had been repeatedly fucked over by Japan, China, Russia and North Korea.

That it's definitely one of the most advanced countries in the world today is a minor miracle. That advance was achieved under constant, imminent threat of destruction.

I'm not referring to nukes, Seoul is well within artillery range from the North Korean border. There's estimated to be 6,000 pieces of artillery aimed at South Korean population centres.

And then, of course, there's missiles. And now nukes.

It's a different world.
Japan, South Korea, and Germany were all rebuilt by the US and Europe. Korea is protected by a massive US military presence. I have several friends who have served in Korea.
 

How bad boy

Full Member

S. Korea ranks 4th in ‘relative poverty’ among 38 OECD members​


South Korea ranked No. 4 among 38 global economies in terms of the percentage of its population living on less than half the median disposable income, data showed Monday, reflecting significant wealth disparities in the country.

According to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, Asia’s fourth-largest economy posted a relative poverty rate of 16.7 percent in 2018-2019, the fourth-highest rate among its 38 member nations. In general, most OECD members are high-income economies classified as developed nations.

The figure translates into the fact that 1 out of 6 South Koreans lives in relative poverty. This year, the yardstick for 50 percent of the median disposable income here stood at 914,000 won ($781.93) for a single-person household and 2.4 million won for a household with four people.

South Korea’s relative poverty rate was 5.6 percentage points higher than the current OECD average of 11.1 percent.

Costa Rica -- the OECD’s newest member, having joined in May this year -- was No. 1 on the list with a relative poverty rate of 20.5 percent. The United States was No. 2 at 17.8 percent and Israel was next at 16.9 percent.

Behind South Korea, Japan came in at No. 5 with 15.7 percent, Italy at No. 6 with 14.2 percent and the United Kingdom at No. 7 with 12.4 percent.

Meanwhile, Iceland came in last with 4.9 percent, reflecting the country’s relatively low income inequality.

The data reminded onlookers of Netflix’s smash hit series “Squid Game,” in which players in deep financial debt participate in a death match to win a grand prize worth billions of won. The show highlights income disparity in South Korea and features characters often shunned by society and driven into poverty, including North Korean defectors and migrant workers, they said.

Experts also cited South Korea’s aging society as an additional reason for the latest relative poverty readings.

“Despite Korea’s high employment rate and relatively low jobless rate, the latest reading means that a large portion of the population does not have a job that pays them sufficient income,” said Kim Sang-bong, an economics professor at Hansung University.

“The fast transition into an aged society is a key factor,” he added.

South Korea turned into an aged society in 2017, when 14 percent of the total population was 65 years or older. In 2025, people over 65 are projected to account for 20.3 percent of the population, or 10.51 million people, and the economy will eventually be a superaged society, with 21 percent of the people in the cited age group.

South Korea has also struggled with the issue of poverty among older adults in recent years, with the poverty rate among those aged 65 and older reaching 43.4 percent in 2018. That figure was the highest among OECD members and about three times the OECD average.

Published : Oct 25, 2021 - 15:17

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20211025000835
Sigh, relative poverty. That's not as simple as just sticking a stat up and saying "yeah, lots of poverty".

One of the big problems they've got is when the existing elderly population was young, 50 years ago, South Korea was still a relatively poor country.

They have the idea of sacrifice generations, back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, working age Koreans typically took the position that while life might be shit for them, it'll be great for their kids. They worked their asses off, invested vast amounts in the future rather than the present and it did pay off for their kids.
Those kids did do well, finishing the job of guiding the country from a poor country to a highly developed rich country. They got quite wealthy in the process.
Their kids have a very, very hard time of it, because they're hitting a society of all that historical baggage. Lots of weird culture stuff, such as to work for one of the massive conglomerates (Chaebol), you generally have to get in from uni graduation, and if you leave, you do not come back. Nor do the other Chaebol hire you.

It's weird culturally, I've seen, up close, one of the Chaebol force a supplier to rehire someone they had fired. The work culture is nuts. Not unusual to have 9am - midnight, 6 days a week working hours.

So you have the very old who are still relatively poor, with wealthy children and their children are foundering under an enormously pressurised system. In my experience, they tend to think of westerners as fat and lazy. And compared to them, we very much are.
 
Sigh, relative poverty. That's not as simple as just sticking a stat up and saying "yeah, lots of poverty".

One of the big problems they've got is when the existing elderly population was young, 50 years ago, South Korea was still a relatively poor country.

They have the idea of sacrifice generations, back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, working age Koreans typically took the position that while life might be shit for them, it'll be great for their kids. They worked their asses off, invested vast amounts in the future rather than the present and it did pay off for their kids.
Those kids did do well, finishing the job of guiding the country from a poor country to a highly developed rich country. They got quite wealthy in the process.
Their kids have a very, very hard time of it, because they're hitting a society of all that historical baggage. Lots of weird culture stuff, such as to work for one of the massive conglomerates (Chaebol), you generally have to get in from uni graduation, and if you leave, you do not come back. Nor do the other Chaebol hire you.

It's weird culturally, I've seen, up close, one of the Chaebol force a supplier to rehire someone they had fired. The work culture is nuts. Not unusual to have 9am - midnight, 6 days a week working hours.

So you have the very old who are still relatively poor, with wealthy children and their children are foundering under an enormously pressurised system. In my experience, they tend to think of westerners as fat and lazy. And compared to them, we very much are.
Schooling is insane. For exams, they shut down noise making factories, so the kids can concentrate.
 
It's weird culturally, I've seen, up close, one of the Chaebol force a supplier to rehire someone they had fired. The work culture is nuts. Not unusual to have 9am - midnight, 6 days a week working hours.

So you have the very old who are still relatively poor, with wealthy children and their children are foundering under an enormously pressurised system. In my experience, they tend to think of westerners as fat and lazy. And compared to them, we very much are.
Koreans are extremely unproductive. Long hours yes but productive, errrmmm no. The 'work' culture there still involves (for some) drinking and whoring with the boss several nights a week. The below list shows that Korea is still one of the lowest ranked countries in terms of productivity, in the OECD. Guess what? It's the fat lazy Westerners that they love to imitate, that dominate the rankings.

The world’s most productive countries: Ranked​

Position Country Hours worked GDP per capita Productivity per person, per hour
1 Luxembourg 1427 $120,962.20 $84.77
2 Ireland 1746 $87,212.05 $49.95
3 Norway 1368.7 $67,978.72 $49.67
4 Switzerland 1495 $70,276.55 $47.01
5 Denmark 1346 $60,334.81 $44.83
6 Netherlands 1399 $59,469.08 $42.51
7 Germany 1331.7 $55,891.20 $41.97
8 Austria 1400 $58,649.67 $41.89
9 Iceland 1435 $58,512.65 $40.78
10 Sweden 1424 $55,027.37 $38.64
11 United States 1767 $65,279.53 $36.94
12 Belgium 1481 $54,693.35 $36.93
13 United Kingdom 1367 $48,438.58 $35.43
14 France 1402 $49,377.13 $35.22
15 Finland 1531 $51,619.83 $33.72
16 Australia 1683 $52,203.13 $31.02
17 Canada 1644 $50,510.75 $30.72
18 Italy 1558.7 $44,821.01 $28.76
19 Slovenia 1514.6 $41,193.84 $27.20
20 Spain 1577.2 $42,185.59 $26.75
21 Japan 1598 $42,338.03 $26.49
22 Czech Republic 1705 $43,004.53 $25.22
23 Malta 1827 $46,071.22 $25.22
24 New Zealand 1739 $43,810.87 $25.19
25 Cyprus 1698 $41,514.51 $24.45
26 Lithuania 1595 $38,756.11 $24.30
27 Israel 1782.5 $41,947.59 $23.53
28 Estonia 1654 $38,819.34 $23.47
29 Portugal 1613 $36,760.12 $22.79
30 Korea, Rep. 1908 $42,727.95 $22.39
31 Slovak Republic 1572 $32,544.96 $20.70
32 Hungary 1660.3 $33,949.63 $20.45
33 Latvia 1577 $32,047.35 $20.32
34 Poland 1766 $34,151.79 $19.34
35 Romania 1795 $32,349.20 $18.02
36 Greece 1728 $30,869.15 $17.86
37 Croatia 1834 $30,245.98 $16.49
38 Russian Federation 1874 $29,188.85 $15.58
39 Bulgaria 1605 $24,579.22 $15.31
40 Chile 1825.3 $26,247.39 $14.38
41 Costa Rica 1913.2 $21,059.92 $11.01
42 Mexico 2124 $20,447.89 $9.63
 

How bad boy

Full Member
Koreans are extremely unproductive. Long hours yes but productive, errrmmm no. The 'work' culture there still involves (for some) drinking and whoring with the boss several nights a week. The below list shows that Korea is still one of the lowest ranked countries in terms of productivity, in the OECD. Guess what? It's the fat lazy Westerners that they love to imitate, that dominate the rankings.

The world’s most productive countries: Ranked​

Position Country Hours worked GDP per capita Productivity per person, per hour
1 Luxembourg 1427 $120,962.20 $84.77
2 Ireland 1746 $87,212.05 $49.95
3 Norway 1368.7 $67,978.72 $49.67
4 Switzerland 1495 $70,276.55 $47.01
5 Denmark 1346 $60,334.81 $44.83
6 Netherlands 1399 $59,469.08 $42.51
7 Germany 1331.7 $55,891.20 $41.97
8 Austria 1400 $58,649.67 $41.89
9 Iceland 1435 $58,512.65 $40.78
10 Sweden 1424 $55,027.37 $38.64
11 United States 1767 $65,279.53 $36.94
12 Belgium 1481 $54,693.35 $36.93
13 United Kingdom 1367 $48,438.58 $35.43
14 France 1402 $49,377.13 $35.22
15 Finland 1531 $51,619.83 $33.72
16 Australia 1683 $52,203.13 $31.02
17 Canada 1644 $50,510.75 $30.72
18 Italy 1558.7 $44,821.01 $28.76
19 Slovenia 1514.6 $41,193.84 $27.20
20 Spain 1577.2 $42,185.59 $26.75
21 Japan 1598 $42,338.03 $26.49
22 Czech Republic 1705 $43,004.53 $25.22
23 Malta 1827 $46,071.22 $25.22
24 New Zealand 1739 $43,810.87 $25.19
25 Cyprus 1698 $41,514.51 $24.45
26 Lithuania 1595 $38,756.11 $24.30
27 Israel 1782.5 $41,947.59 $23.53
28 Estonia 1654 $38,819.34 $23.47
29 Portugal 1613 $36,760.12 $22.79
30 Korea, Rep. 1908 $42,727.95 $22.39
31 Slovak Republic 1572 $32,544.96 $20.70
32 Hungary 1660.3 $33,949.63 $20.45
33 Latvia 1577 $32,047.35 $20.32
34 Poland 1766 $34,151.79 $19.34
35 Romania 1795 $32,349.20 $18.02
36 Greece 1728 $30,869.15 $17.86
37 Croatia 1834 $30,245.98 $16.49
38 Russian Federation 1874 $29,188.85 $15.58
39 Bulgaria 1605 $24,579.22 $15.31
40 Chile 1825.3 $26,247.39 $14.38
41 Costa Rica 1913.2 $21,059.92 $11.01
42 Mexico 2124 $20,447.89 $9.63
Ireland's figure there is almost certainly distorted by the GDP silliness btw. Ditto Luxembourg and a few others.

I don't disagree, from my experience, the Finns achieved in a 35 hours work week what the Koreans achieved in a 70+ hr week.
They also have lots of unproductive local companies which are kept subscale by the Chaebol, if they get too big or profitable, they get bought up or the charbol put them out of business.

But don't dismiss them.
 
Ireland's figure there is almost certainly distorted by the GDP silliness btw. Ditto Luxembourg and a few others.

I don't disagree, from my experience, the Finns achieved in a 35 hours work week what the Koreans achieved in a 70+ hr week.
They also have lots of unproductive local companies which are kept subscale by the Chaebol, if they get too big or profitable, they get bought up or the charbol put them out of business.

But don't dismiss them.
The old British scepticism of Irish success appears to be rubbing off.
Ireland is one of the most productive countries in the world.
I spoke to a senior US FDA official who explained that he felt that one of the reasons Irish pharmachem plants were so productive and of such high quality was because Irish workers spoke to each other openly and weren’t afraid to admit errors.
He was responsible for all FDA audits in the Eastern US and Western Europe.
 
The old British scepticism of Irish success appears to be rubbing off.
Ireland is one of the most productive countries in the world.
I spoke to a senior US FDA official who explained that he felt that one of the reasons Irish pharmachem plants were so productive and of such high quality was because Irish workers spoke to each other openly and weren’t afraid to admit errors.
He was responsible for all FDA audits in the Eastern US and Western Europe.
With a huge multinational pharmachem sector, Ireland is coming close to exporting as much as the U.K. does.
1654245456874.png
Irelands tech sector is generating almost as much revenue as London's entire financial sector.
1654245518257.png


The U.K. population is about 60+ million people.


Ireland, a peripheral island of 5m people, earned more from exports than Italy, a G7 country of 60m.
1654247770633.png
 
Last edited:

Handy Run

Full Member
Ireland, a peripheral island of 5m people, earned more from exports than Italy, a G7 country of 60m.

How much of that stays in Ireland though stackY? I'm not saying we don't do well from FDI, but a lot of 'our' exports are really American exports
 

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