My sperm my choice

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Sweeping statement there, But are we not commenting now?, I guess we are the dreggs, still think I had at point in saying we live in a age where forced motherhood is unimaginable yet forced fatherhood is expected, leaving aside the financial issue, which I actually have no problem with once its reasonable (although we know many men are financially crippled in many cases although many lone parent women are also), would u think it reasonable that a man could legally sign away all his rights in order to give him the choice?, at least in this case the child would actually know for sure his reason for not being involved and would not grow up actually wondering why he was not involved, it would provide an answer for the child, reason could actually be put down on paper, it could also avoid the situation of say a child from a 1 night fling showing up on a doorstep 20 years later and the lives of a whole happy family situation being destroyed.I probably went off on the topic with so many variables, I just think if u were to ask absent fathers why they were actually an absent father they would say its because they did not want involvement with the mother and no matter how much they tried this was unavoidable, and if you were to ask women why they aborted there child the majority would say they did not want involment with the father and no matter how much they would try this it would be inevitable, so should men have a male abortion of sorts available to them, I think in scandanavia they called it a paper abortion.It's just a topic I've thought about as I know a man who ended his own life because of situation like this, had a child from a fling,had no relationship with him, child turned up at the door 20 years later, man had a family, marriage broke up and man took his own life.Why I even argued that a man should not even be financially responsible for a child he did not want has more to do with that the child is eventually going to cop on that the cheques coming in the door are more than likely his father's and a relationship will then more than likely be sought out at some stage.I guess women get to avoid this type of situation through abortion.

 

[Matlock]

A friend of mine married his partner of 20 years recently because she said if she died he actually had no guardianship rights to their children, so men have zero rights, I'm no expert and stand corrected but when u said it takes 2 parents consent for a child to be adopted I'd imagine that's only if married somehow if there not married I'd say a mother can give up there child for adoption not a bother, I actually know of a girl that did, father doesn't even know.Respect to her though for not killing it.

You would be wrong.

Your friend didn't need to get married to get guardianship rights. There is a very easy district court application he could have made. No need to engage a Solicitor to do it.

 

[Matlock]

Thank you.

So basically, a man (and a woman) both have the right to not raise the child (other than maintenance) and this argument (from 6th sense) is mostly pointless.

Pretty much.

 

[Sixthsense]

Sorry I'm not very educated.

 

[Sixthsense]

Pretty much.

I do find it interesting that so many are unwilling to debate the fact that a mother can choose to be a mother but a father cannot choose to be a father and indeed have fatherhood forced upon him, we all know the level of castigation a man faces if he chooses to walk away. This is something a woman does not now have to deal with.

 

[Matlock]

I do find it interesting that so many are unwilling to debate the fact that a mother can choose to be a mother but a father cannot choose to be a father and indeed have fatherhood forced upon him, we all know the level of castigation a man faces if he chooses to walk away. This is something a woman does not now have to deal with.

I have debated this with you.

I dont agree with you, but that's a different thing.

For the 100th time, a man cannot have fatherhood forced on him. He can have maintenance forced on him.

Given the number of one parent (mainly mother) families in this country I think you vastly over estimate the " castigation" that men face if they choose to walk away.

 

[Donald Trump]

I do find it interesting that so many are unwilling to debate the fact that a mother can choose to be a mother but a father cannot choose to be a father and indeed have fatherhood forced upon him, we all know the level of castigation a man faces if he chooses to walk away. This is something a woman does not now have to deal with.

Women can choose to have an abortion. Yes, only women can do this, for obvious reason.

Women and men can choose to have their kids adopted (I know some women who have done this, and that's all I can say on here).

Women or men can have their kids put into care. Mostly this is done because they feel they can't cope. If there are relatives available who can look after the child/children, Tusla will often place the kids with them. If not, they will place them with selected foster parents.

You can give your kids up at any stage in their childhood and the state will assume the role of carer.

 

[Sixthsense]

Women can choose to have an abortion. Yes, only women can do this, for obvious reason.

Women and men can choose to have their kids adopted (I know some women who have done this, and that's all I can say on here).

Women or men can have their kids put into care. Mostly this is done because they feel they can't cope. If there are relatives available who can look after the child/children, Tusla will often place the kids with them. If not, they will place them with selected foster parents.

You can give your kids up at any stage in their childhood and the state will assume the role of carer.

I know what your saying Don, all I'm trying to do is to see a reaction from a male side of things and the lack of control a man has.
A child could say survive outside the womb from say 6 months but women can still abort, whats the difference between a man walking away and woman doing this?, I'd say a few layers of skin.
There is no real difference between a man who walks away and a woman who aborts for socio reasons, totally different scenario for fatal abnormalities, I have 100% understanding in that case. I also think that this is coming down the track and I wanted to try to throw out all the reasons a woman would give to abort, but do so from a male abortion perspective.

Matlock seems well informed on the law side of things and main reasons law wants men involved is from what I can make out they don't want to pay out, but I wonder, if say no one aborted would the aborted child put more into the economy than take out, I'd say definitely yes, so women again are given a so called "pass", when they abort from this perspective but men do not as the state is again expecting them to "cough up". I think this is a slow burner but wait with time it may be a thing.