Jesus lads, 'tis looking like BREXIT!

PROCNA2018

Full Member
This is the amendment we voted to include in the constitution by means of the referendum when 94% of us approved the agreement:


  1. It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament[a] that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.”
It’s kind of ambiguous.
Yes I know. That was my point.
 
Yes I know. That was my point.
You could take the view that the 94% vote in favour of the wish to unite the people of the island means that we already have given our democratic consent. However you’d need a constitutional lawyer or a Supreme Court judge to interpret it.
My interpretation for what it’s worth is that there only needs to be a vote in the north.
 

Handy Run

Full Member
You could take the view that the 94% vote in favour of the wish to unite the people of the island means that we already have given our democratic consent. However you’d need a constitutional lawyer or a Supreme Court judge to interpret it.
My interpretation for what it’s worth is that there only needs to be a vote in the north.

What vote was that? Please don't say the GFA
 
You could take the view that the 94% vote in favour of the wish to unite the people of the island means that we already have given our democratic consent. However you’d need a constitutional lawyer or a Supreme Court judge to interpret it.
My interpretation for what it’s worth is that there only needs to be a vote in the north.
That says that we agree on the IDEA. Nowhere does it say, the Rep of Ireland has voted to ACTUALLY move forward with it.

Previous poster was correct, it would require a referendum as it would need to usurp the GFA (and many other lines in our constitution) with a new treaty. Turning intention into action.

Also, anyone who wants NI and their religious headbangers/ rubbish education system and god awful economic setup needs their head checked. Firm no from me!
 

PROCNA2018

Full Member
You could take the view that the 94% vote in favour of the wish to unite the people of the island means that we already have given our democratic consent. However you’d need a constitutional lawyer or a Supreme Court judge to interpret it.
My interpretation for what it’s worth is that there only needs to be a vote in the north.
And my interpretation used to be 2 referenda concurrently North and South. But the more I read about the interpretation of it, it seems while a BP has to happen on the North, a Dáil vote might suffice here. Personally I think a proper referendum would be more solid but it is what it is.
 

PROCNA2018

Full Member
That says that we agree on the IDEA. Nowhere does it say, the Rep of Ireland has voted to ACTUALLY move forward with it.

Previous poster was correct, it would require a referendum as it would need to usurp the GFA (and many other lines in our constitution) with a new treaty. Turning intention into action.

Also, anyone who wants NI and their religious headbangers/ rubbish education system and god awful economic setup needs their head checked. Firm no from me!
Actually it says we agree on it, not just the IDEA, pending a BP declaring the will of the majority of the people in the North. However I am sure your argument will become the new mantra for the now's not the time merchants.
 
Actually it says we agree on it, not just the IDEA, pending a BP declaring the will of the majority of the people in the North. However I am sure your argument will become the new mantra for the now's not the time merchants.
You are seeing what you want to see.

The referendum put to the people of Ireland, when I wasn't even born was in relation to; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

//////
most notably by changing Articles 2 and 3 from the previous claim over the whole island of Ireland to an aspiration towards creating a united Ireland
///////

The text //did NOT// ask the people of Rep Ireland, do you agree to merge with Northern Ireland, upon their sign off. So......that text you reference is diplomatic "idealism" speak...you see the "aspiration"? Dream world and reality are very different questions. Of course everyone would like lots of things.

Try asking the bank to sign off a loan for you, where you aspire to pay it back. Let me know how valid they consider it.
 
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And my interpretation used to be 2 referenda concurrently North and South. But the more I read about the interpretation of it, it seems while a BP has to happen on the North, a Dáil vote might suffice here. Personally I think a proper referendum would be more solid but it is what it is.
You would need a referendum, as we would once again need to change the 19th Amendment; which currently states /we aspire to a United Ireland/.

You cannot change our constitution without referendums.
 

PROCNA2018

Full Member
You are seeing what you want to see.

The referendum put to the people of Ireland, when I wasn't even born was in relation to; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

//////
most notably by changing Articles 2 and 3 from the previous claim over the whole island of Ireland to an aspiration towards creating a united Ireland
///////

The text //did NOT// ask the people of Rep Ireland, do you agree to merge with Northern Ireland, upon their sign off. So......that text you reference is diplomatic "idealism" speak...you see the "aspiration"? Dream world and reality are very different questions. Of course everyone would like lots of things.
This is where we enter alternative reality syndrome to stave off unity at all costs.

We didn't claim anything. The old articles 2 and 3 were a statement of fact. The national territory is.....pending the reintegration of. .....there was never any legitimacy to the Government of Ireland Act in Ireland like there was never any legitimacy to the British presence in Ireland over centuries.

What we did in 1998 was made a peace agreement acknowledging that you simply cannot deny the existence of 900,000 people planted in Ulster and their wish to be British in perpetuity and they under no circumstances should be forced militarily into a united Ireland through a campaign of unjustifiable terror and murder.

So we changed the territorial statement of fact to a popular statement based on the principle of consent. That's not me seeing what I want to see, it's fact.

The GFA is very clear - if an SoS calls a BP and it passes, both governments must legislate to make that decision a reality.

So a successful BP means unity.

How we provide our democratically expressed acknowledgement of that in my head used to mean a concurrent referendum down here. But the more I read, it seems a motion passed in the Dáil would be enough. I think I'd prefer the referendum. But it is what it is.

Unity is inevitable. The form it takes is what we should be discussing and agreeing now.
 

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