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Divorce stuff

€4k.

DIY they could do it for less than €200, but it would require a significant enough time investment.
To contrast, I've known people spend over 50k alone, and still not have anything to show. Contentious battles require a large war-chest, and an even lager emotional reservoir. Do all you can to keep it good. Unfortunately it takes 2 to prevent a shitshow.
 
I have to say I’m extremely lucky.

I wasn’t always the best husband and we weren’t right for each other but my ex is a wonderful person, a great mother and someone I call a friend. We still laugh and joke with each other and if every so often we have a blow up and argue over something small when things cool down we move on.

She accommodates me when I go to Cork matches and I return the favour if she has a race or wants to meet with friends.

We will be stuck living together for the foreseeable because at €1100 a month our rent is an absolute steal and our landlord has shown no signs of wanting to sell. Obviously moving on is harder and a new relationship pretty much impossible for a while but it’s not half as tough as some have it.
Really lucky....my brother in the US just got divorced from his wife, who has undiagnosed BPD, and it has been a dose. She tried to clean him out, but there are strict guidelines in their state, so it was a 50-50 split of matrimonial assets (outside of what they each brought into the marriage). It was funny she demanded a parenting plan for their son who will be 18 in August and has been driving for the last year or so. 😃
 
How likely is a judge to deviate from the agreement where a consent divorce is being sought? Say both parties agree not to go after each others assets and a sum is agreed for child maintenance.
Pretty unlikely, unless there are obvious red flags. That's where past DV would be considered, for example, as there might be the possibility of duress.
 
To contrast, I've known people spend over 50k alone, and still not have anything to show. Contentious battles require a large war-chest, and an even lager emotional reservoir. Do all you can to keep it good. Unfortunately it takes 2 to prevent a shitshow.
I know someone fairly well whose absolute psychopathic ex spent over €100k in legal fees trying to destroy/punish him. Unfortunately he was the last to see her for what she is.. everyone tried to educate him prior to their wedding but alas he made his bed, her families wealth clouded his poor judgement we think.
Once he applied for a divorce and left the home she stopped him seeing the kids for years etc. After the divorce she went to pot altogether, without his stabilizing influence I guess, and Tusla took the kids off her after schools, Drs and child therapists raised alarms. Even all her wealth and notorious legal rep couldn’t save her..kids went back to the dad. Last I heard she is posting online about parental alienation. 🤪
Every month I’m bumping into someone that’s getting divorced. Last person was a few weeks ago, in the middle of it, he is wearing a chest cam in the house full time 😂
 
I was going to PM this to @Hallbopping but there is no personal information in it and it occurred to me that it might be of interest or use to others on here.

Firstly, the courts do not care why you are splitting up, or who was at fault. They are not there to punish bad behaviour. The only exception to this is situations of domestic violence. Apart from that, your anger at your ex will only cloud the court proceedings and cause you to make decisions and give instructions from a place of revenge rather than logic. Go see a therapist to deal with the emotional fallout (which is significant, even if relatively cordial separations. It can be life ruining in more contentious cases).

In terms of what the courts do care about, it's three things and three things only. Property, maintenance, custody.
Even if you have agreed all of the financial stuff yourselves, you still need to be able to present all of this information to the Court as the Judge needs to be able to be satisfied that proper provision is made for both of you, and especially for any children. So you both need to write out a statement of all of your
Assets- property, pension, investments etc
Liabilities- mortgage, loans, etc
Income - you need payslips, p60 etc
Expenditure- where the money goes.

You need to have proof for every thing you claim. Get started on this early as it can take a while to get bank statements, pension details etc.

If there are no kids, this is all that really matters. In terms of the split, generally we rarely award spousal maintenance unless the parties have worked in a joint enterprise that is in the name of one person (family farm for example). Most of the time, the court looks at who brought what money into the relationship, how was that money managed during the relationship and what's an equitable split now.

If there are kids, then the next issues are custody/access and maintenance. I think that the best starting point is to sit down together and try and work out what sort of parents they want to be as a separated couple. It moves the focus from an adversarial one to a more collaborative one. Generally Judges don't care what your custody/access arrangements are as long as you are both happy with them, and it seems workable for the child (in that they are not being made to travel huge distances to school or the likes). In terms of maintenance, I suggest people start by working out the needs of the child and the cost of those needs, rather than looking at it from the pov of how much money each parent has. Again, it helps to make it less adversarial. Child maintenance is for the child, but if they are predominantly living with one parent, then part of the needs of that child are heating/light/rent etc. It isn't just for clothes and birthday parties!

Ideally, you would be heading into a Solicitor with all of your financial information gathered and exchanged and a broad parenting plan in place.

In terms of paperwork, you need to decide who will be the applicant and who will be the respondent. The applicant issues the proceedings and their bill will be higher. If people are very much in agreement, sometimes they are happy to take both sets of legal fees and split them 50/50. I think that's the fairest way, but it can get tricky if one party starts to act the maggot in terms of court applications during the process.

If it is straightforward though, this is how it goes
Applicant issues proceedings, to explain to the Court and the respondent the circumstances of the marriage, and the reasons and time line for divorce. It also sets out what they are looking for. A word of caution, every single thing will be listed in this (they want the house, full custody etc etc) The reason for this is that if something isn't in that list then the Judge can't award it, even if circumstances change during the course of the trial. So don't look at it as a list of demands. It is just a list of every available option. With the proceedings, the applicant has to file their Affidavit of means (which is the list of financial docs) and if there are kids, also an Affidavit of welfare, which sets out their living and working situations so the Judge can assess if the custody/access arrangements are reasonable.

The Applicant (or their Solicitor in reality) serves these documents on the Respondent. The Respondent has to file a document called an Appearance, which is basically a letter stating "I got the proceedings, these are my Solicitors (or I am self representing) and I will gather together my documents now"

The the respondent has to serve a document called a Defence, which is not actually defending anything! It is a reply to the Proceedings, listing out what parts of the proceedings they agree with, what parts are not agreed and what they are looking for from the Court. Again, like the proceedings, they will list all possible options to give the Judge all of the options. The Defendant has to file their Affidavit of Means and Welfare at this time.

So, at this point, both sides have sight of the documents. If all is agreed, then the people meet with their Solicitors/ barristers and the write out an agreement, and sign it.

If you have pensions, then you have to get a court order called a pension adjustment order. Even if the agreement is that neither of you will claim off the other's pension, because you have a right to it as a spouse then there has to be a court order to amend that. The PAO will be granted on the same date as the divorce.

We have a thing called case progression in family law. All cases get listed before the county registrar and you have to go and update them on what's happening. If someone hasn't filed their paperwork then she can sanction them. It is basically a way to keep cases moving as sometimes (especially if the separation is not a mutual decision) people ignore the court documents. Once you can tell the county reg that you have agreed the case, you get moved to a Judges consent list and get a hearing date.

At the hearing, only one person has to give evidence, generally the Applicant. The get into the witness box, confirm that the marriage cert that is handed to the Judge is theirs, and confirm that the parties have agreed terms of divorce, which are also handed to the Judge. Judge reads them, might ask a few questions and then grants the divorce. Usually takes 10 mins max.

That's how consent divorce works.

Contested divorce starts the same and then once the paperwork is filed it all goes to shit! If one person doesn't believe the affidavits of the other then there can be discovery, or PI evidence etc. If they can agree interim access/maintenance then there are interim applications for those things. That's when it starts to get really messy and expensive.

If anyone has questions I will do my best to answer them.

I am not engaging with lawyer bashing though.
Fair play Mattie.

I’m fairly familiar with about 7/8 divorces and it seems to me on that very limited sample size that the value of the pot dictates the legal journey.. if there are limited assets neither party or their reps are up for any sort of expensive fight… I’m not bashing- it’s just a practical reality..
If there are significant assets then it’s Apocalypse Now 😂
 
I met a guy years ago. He was going through a divorce and he said Never Get Married! I've heard the same from others too. I had a friend one night crying saying,don't ever get married! I thought she was happy.
I was only very young one night when one of the lads said, don't ever get a joint bank account. Now...that's probably more accurate. He was in bits
 
I met a guy years ago. He was going through a divorce and he said Never Get Married! I've heard the same from others too. I had a friend one night crying saying,don't ever get married! I thought she was happy.
I was only very young one night when one of the lads said, don't ever get a joint bank account. Now...that's probably more accurate. He was in bits
While it’s understandable when people are grieving (and I think grief is the right word here) I think it’s far more accurate to say be careful who you marry.

Before committing to a legal connection you need to be really sure that they are the right person for you and that you are happy together.
 
While it’s understandable when people are grieving (and I think grief is the right word here) I think it’s far more accurate to say be careful who you marry.

Before committing to a legal connection you need to be really sure that they are the right person for you and that you are happy together.
She's still married actually. I dunno was it the drink talking. You're right of course.
 
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