Cork Schoolboys League: Win At All Costs

[Hamish]

I’m looking for the opinions of any PRC members that have had experience of the Cork Schoolboys League, either as a player or as a coach.

I’m the lead coach of my son’s Under 13 team. We’re our club’s third team of three, in Division 9 (of 11).

Our experience over the last three years has been anything but positive. I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny. I don’t mind us getting beaten, all I want is a competitive match. We’ve had a few competitive matches this season alright, and they’ve been enjoyable experiences. We even won one of them.

But by and large, a match means misery. The other matches, we’ve received hidings. Invariably the other Division 9 teams either bolster their squad with 4/5 players from their first team, or else strengthen their team a few teenagers.

I’ve said it to other coaches in my club, or committee members. They don’t really listen. I think the fielding of ineligible players doesn’t happen in the higher divisions. Most of those players and coaches have been doing this for a number of years and are familiar with each others players. But in the lower divisions there’s a lot of churn and a lot of newbies. It’s easier to conceal ineligible players.

Then, “friendlies” are even worse. So much so we don’t play them anymore.

We played a friendly team before Christmas where the coach said he wanted to “give a start to a few of his weaker players”, to which I replied “likewise”. When we got there are my coaches were saying “they’re big”.

Halfway thru’ the second half (down about 0-12) we had to abandon because my goalie’s hands were too sore from stopping piledrivers from the six teenagers that dominated the match.

In that match, a friendly, very few of my players got time on the ball. Half of the other team (those that looked 11-12 in age) got very little time on the ball. The six teenagers controlled the ball for the 45 minutes we played, passing amongst themselves only.

Who benefitted from this experience? Just the win at all costs coach?

What’s that saying about (association) football?

“Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans”. Maybe that should be “coached by hooligans”.


My son also plays hurling and this never happens. Sure, they get the occasional walloping, and give the occasional walloping, but they never play teenagers.

Their U13 team play boys that look 11 or 12 years old. Or if they’re streamed into two or more different teams, so are their opponents and there’s no crossing over.


My son is refusing to play on Sunday morning against the table-toppers, and I can’t blame him.

I’m hoping he quits altogether and focusses on one of the other sports he plays. Personally I could do with an extra 8 or 10 hours a week.

 

[El Guapo]

I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny.

I'm really sorry to hear this. my teams and athletes have been on the receiving end of a fair few wallopings. it sucks. so far I've found the kids rationalise it fairly quickly. I do wonder at what age that stops.

Fuck those other coaches playing overage players, They are sad bastards who want to live vicariously though children. I've met them. I've also met piles of sound men too just out to make sure their kids have a game of ball.

Your boys however are not weak. Anyone making assumptions on sporting prowess pre puberty is on a hiding to nothing.

And you are not a shit coach. you turn up and do your best. At that age grade there is nobody can do anything better. Every underage wonder coach I've ever seen does it by ignoring and underdeveloping "weaker" players and hothousing the better fellas..That won't last either

Hang in there.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I’m looking for the opinions of any PRC members that have had experience of the Cork Schoolboys League, either as a player or as a coach.

I’m the lead coach of my son’s Under 13 team. We’re our club’s third team of three, in Division 9 (of 11).

Our experience over the last three years has been anything but positive. I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny. I don’t mind us getting beaten, all I want is a competitive match. We’ve had a few competitive matches this season alright, and they’ve been enjoyable experiences. We even won one of them.

But by and large, a match means misery. The other matches, we’ve received hidings. Invariably the other Division 9 teams either bolster their squad with 4/5 players from their first team, or else strengthen their team a few teenagers.

I’ve said it to other coaches in my club, or committee members. They don’t really listen. I think the fielding of ineligible players doesn’t happen in the higher divisions. Most of those players and coaches have been doing this for a number of years and are familiar with each others players. But in the lower divisions there’s a lot of churn and a lot of newbies. It’s easier to conceal ineligible players.

Then, “friendlies” are even worse. So much so we don’t play them anymore.

We played a friendly team before Christmas where the coach said he wanted to “give a start to a few of his weaker players”, to which I replied “likewise”. When we got there are my coaches were saying “they’re big”.

Halfway thru’ the second half (down about 0-12) we had to abandon because my goalie’s hands were too sore from stopping piledrivers from the six teenagers that dominated the match.

In that match, a friendly, very few of my players got time on the ball. Half of the other team (those that looked 11-12 in age) got very little time on the ball. The six teenagers controlled the ball for the 45 minutes we played, passing amongst themselves only.

Who benefitted from this experience? Just the win at all costs coach?

What’s that saying about (association) football?

“Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans”. Maybe that should be “coached by hooligans”.


My son also plays hurling and this never happens. Sure, they get the occasional walloping, and give the occasional walloping, but they never play teenagers.

Their U13 team play boys that look 11 or 12 years old. Or if they’re streamed into two or more different teams, so are their opponents and there’s no crossing over.


My son is refusing to play on Sunday morning against the table-toppers, and I can’t blame him.

I’m hoping he quits altogether and focusses on one of the other sports he plays. Personally I could do with an extra 8 or 10 hours a week.

Thats very disheartening to hear.

Ive coached underage rugby at a few age grades and with lads 12 or 13 theres nothing to be gained from dealing out trashings to weaker opponents.

If there was a massive disparity in quality my attitude is to haul the better players to even it up a bit.

Neither side learns anything from a cricket score one way.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm really sorry to hear this. my teams and athletes have been on the receiving end of a fair few wallopings. it sucks. so far I've found the kids rationalise it fairly quickly. I do wonder at what age that stops.

Fuck those other coaches playing overage players, They are sad bastards who want to live vicariously though children. I've met them. I've met piles of sound men too just out to make sure their kids have a game of ball.

Your boys however are not weak. Anyone making assumptions on sporting prowess pre puberty is on a hiding to nothing.

And you are not a shit coach. you turn up and do your best. At that age grade there is nobody can do anything better. Every underage wonder coach I've ever seen does it by ignoring and underdeveloped "weaker" players and hothousing the better fellas..That won't last either

Hang in there.

100%.

Talking to a couple of fellas who coach underage hurling and their attitude was never take the gas off and grind your opponent into the ground.

Horrendous attitude imo with a sport that has big issues with dropout.

 

[Mickyd]

I’m looking for the opinions of any PRC members that have had experience of the Cork Schoolboys League, either as a player or as a coach.

I’m the lead coach of my son’s Under 13 team. We’re our club’s third team of three, in Division 9 (of 11).

Our experience over the last three years has been anything but positive. I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny. I don’t mind us getting beaten, all I want is a competitive match. We’ve had a few competitive matches this season alright, and they’ve been enjoyable experiences. We even won one of them.

But by and large, a match means misery. The other matches, we’ve received hidings. Invariably the other Division 9 teams either bolster their squad with 4/5 players from their first team, or else strengthen their team a few teenagers.

I’ve said it to other coaches in my club, or committee members. They don’t really listen. I think the fielding of ineligible players doesn’t happen in the higher divisions. Most of those players and coaches have been doing this for a number of years and are familiar with each others players. But in the lower divisions there’s a lot of churn and a lot of newbies. It’s easier to conceal ineligible players.

Then, “friendlies” are even worse. So much so we don’t play them anymore.

We played a friendly team before Christmas where the coach said he wanted to “give a start to a few of his weaker players”, to which I replied “likewise”. When we got there are my coaches were saying “they’re big”.

Halfway thru’ the second half (down about 0-12) we had to abandon because my goalie’s hands were too sore from stopping piledrivers from the six teenagers that dominated the match.

In that match, a friendly, very few of my players got time on the ball. Half of the other team (those that looked 11-12 in age) got very little time on the ball. The six teenagers controlled the ball for the 45 minutes we played, passing amongst themselves only.

Who benefitted from this experience? Just the win at all costs coach?

What’s that saying about (association) football?

“Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans”. Maybe that should be “coached by hooligans”.


My son also plays hurling and this never happens. Sure, they get the occasional walloping, and give the occasional walloping, but they never play teenagers.

Their U13 team play boys that look 11 or 12 years old. Or if they’re streamed into two or more different teams, so are their opponents and there’s no crossing over.


My son is refusing to play on Sunday morning against the table-toppers, and I can’t blame him.

I’m hoping he quits altogether and focusses on one of the other sports he plays. Personally I could do with an extra 8 or 10 hours a week.

Firstly, you are not a shit coach.

As El Guapo says you turn up! At that level and age that is 90% of coaching.

Secondly, there is hope but it probably does require going down a division.

Last season our team lost every game!

We shipped some heavy beatings. Morale was on the floor.

We went down a division and this season we are top of our league!

At u13 many teams tend to be in wrong divisions (in both directions). It tends to even out as you go up the age groups.

Try to find some like minded coaches at other teams (look at teams in lower divisions) for friendlies. Explain the issues to them.

Hang in there!

 

[diggerman]

ah stop. my son played with a club, they had 3 teams at the 1 age. so well over 30 or so players. within 2 or 3 years there was 2 many lads for 1 team but not enough for 2 teams !!!

Secondly, at start of the next subsequent season the chairman of the club contacted players parents , to tell them their son needed to find another club.

then again... at start of next season the lead coach says in a message that he was stepping aside, not enough players and there would be no team.

** From over 33 lads to not enough for 1 squad . SO 2 parents then stepped forward and said they would coach the team, also asked how many available ... then the lead coach says teams is not being entered in the CSL.

Lead coach, and his son went to another club. So he basically disbanded the team because he wanted his son to go elsewhere.!!!

 

[Happyhonkaman]

I’m looking for the opinions of any PRC members that have had experience of the Cork Schoolboys League, either as a player or as a coach.

I’m the lead coach of my son’s Under 13 team. We’re our club’s third team of three, in Division 9 (of 11).

Our experience over the last three years has been anything but positive. I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny. I don’t mind us getting beaten, all I want is a competitive match. We’ve had a few competitive matches this season alright, and they’ve been enjoyable experiences. We even won one of them.

But by and large, a match means misery. The other matches, we’ve received hidings. Invariably the other Division 9 teams either bolster their squad with 4/5 players from their first team, or else strengthen their team a few teenagers.

I’ve said it to other coaches in my club, or committee members. They don’t really listen. I think the fielding of ineligible players doesn’t happen in the higher divisions. Most of those players and coaches have been doing this for a number of years and are familiar with each others players. But in the lower divisions there’s a lot of churn and a lot of newbies. It’s easier to conceal ineligible players.

Then, “friendlies” are even worse. So much so we don’t play them anymore.

We played a friendly team before Christmas where the coach said he wanted to “give a start to a few of his weaker players”, to which I replied “likewise”. When we got there are my coaches were saying “they’re big”.

Halfway thru’ the second half (down about 0-12) we had to abandon because my goalie’s hands were too sore from stopping piledrivers from the six teenagers that dominated the match.

In that match, a friendly, very few of my players got time on the ball. Half of the other team (those that looked 11-12 in age) got very little time on the ball. The six teenagers controlled the ball for the 45 minutes we played, passing amongst themselves only.

Who benefitted from this experience? Just the win at all costs coach?

What’s that saying about (association) football?

“Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans”. Maybe that should be “coached by hooligans”.


My son also plays hurling and this never happens. Sure, they get the occasional walloping, and give the occasional walloping, but they never play teenagers.

Their U13 team play boys that look 11 or 12 years old. Or if they’re streamed into two or more different teams, so are their opponents and there’s no crossing over.


My son is refusing to play on Sunday morning against the table-toppers, and I can’t blame him.

I’m hoping he quits altogether and focusses on one of the other sports he plays. Personally I could do with an extra 8 or 10 hours a week.

Hamish, fair play to you for giving your time and trying to give those boys something to turn up for, train for, and play for. The alternative these days is endless screen time so you are doing great work whether it feels like it or not. Its easy to get coaches in the 1st and 2nd team, much harder to get the coaches in the levels below because the clubs also tend not to care, hence them not being bothered by overage and ineligible players against your lads. You can be guaranteed it doesn't happen in the higher divisions, I see it myself every few weeks where managers query players and they check them against the database. If anyone is caught the player is suspended for 3-4 matches

Speaking from personal experience I wont get involved with my youngfellas soccer team, despite playing it all my life - I do coach his GAA team. Having had soccer, GAA, basketball etc all work along side by side up until now the soccer lads have made a decision to be an 'elite' club which involves cutting kids from the locality and disbanding teams so their coach with his uefa badges can teach them all to play like Peps teams and then lose them to LOI Academies and feeder clubs. Why does success in soccer always mean the best kids leaving their community and support to chase an almost impossible dream? I say all of this as a parent of a fella who is considered one of the ones they want to work with by the way, but its stinks and its a shit way to treat young kids, dying for a bit of confidence and the feeling of being wanted. The dopes are so shortsighted they cut a son of a friend, forgetting that his brother is one of the 'elite' fellas in a younger team, and his father one of the main sponsors! Cue a mega shit storm

Drop one division like someone else suggested, it sounds like it will happen naturally anyway. The most important thing is to be playing at the correct level no matter what that level is.

We have 3 teams in the youngfellas GAA group - Division 1, 5 and 11. The Division 11 guys won 12, and the Division 5 guys won 6 last year.. we had a big celebration for them all at the club.. the only team not to win were the top fellas! It doesn't really happen any more as the divisions have sifted the teams well at this stage, but when we were in a position where we were far stronger which used happen a fair bit at younger ages Id immediately pull a player or two, and swap forwards and backs etc. You'd want to be a complete failure of an adult to take pleasure is seeing young kids beaten off a pitch where they never stood a chance. Dont get me wrong, it is seriously competitive at times, but there is always a bigger picture in mind

 

[Rebel CNC]

I’m looking for the opinions of any PRC members that have had experience of the Cork Schoolboys League, either as a player or as a coach.

I’m the lead coach of my son’s Under 13 team. We’re our club’s third team of three, in Division 9 (of 11).

Our experience over the last three years has been anything but positive. I’m not whinging because the boys are weak players and I’m a shite coach. Both of those statements are facts that I cannot deny. I don’t mind us getting beaten, all I want is a competitive match. We’ve had a few competitive matches this season alright, and they’ve been enjoyable experiences. We even won one of them.

But by and large, a match means misery. The other matches, we’ve received hidings. Invariably the other Division 9 teams either bolster their squad with 4/5 players from their first team, or else strengthen their team a few teenagers.

I’ve said it to other coaches in my club, or committee members. They don’t really listen. I think the fielding of ineligible players doesn’t happen in the higher divisions. Most of those players and coaches have been doing this for a number of years and are familiar with each others players. But in the lower divisions there’s a lot of churn and a lot of newbies. It’s easier to conceal ineligible players.

Then, “friendlies” are even worse. So much so we don’t play them anymore.

We played a friendly team before Christmas where the coach said he wanted to “give a start to a few of his weaker players”, to which I replied “likewise”. When we got there are my coaches were saying “they’re big”.

Halfway thru’ the second half (down about 0-12) we had to abandon because my goalie’s hands were too sore from stopping piledrivers from the six teenagers that dominated the match.

In that match, a friendly, very few of my players got time on the ball. Half of the other team (those that looked 11-12 in age) got very little time on the ball. The six teenagers controlled the ball for the 45 minutes we played, passing amongst themselves only.

Who benefitted from this experience? Just the win at all costs coach?

What’s that saying about (association) football?

“Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans”. Maybe that should be “coached by hooligans”.


My son also plays hurling and this never happens. Sure, they get the occasional walloping, and give the occasional walloping, but they never play teenagers.

Their U13 team play boys that look 11 or 12 years old. Or if they’re streamed into two or more different teams, so are their opponents and there’s no crossing over.


My son is refusing to play on Sunday morning against the table-toppers, and I can’t blame him.

I’m hoping he quits altogether and focusses on one of the other sports he plays. Personally I could do with an extra 8 or 10 hours a week.

There's a nasty edge developing in schoolboys soccer with issues like the above becoming more prevalent in the last few years. There are a few "usual suspect" clubs who are most at fault but the CSL need to be more proactive in enforcing the rules.
We refuse to play friendly games with one or two clubs that are certainly padding their team with few players couple of years above the age group.
Coaching at u9 level we split the group into different mixed ability teams but have had other teams saying - no - we want to play "elite" players only. This for 8-9 year olds FFS!! Hardly the Barca academy we're talking about here!!

One quite high profile club has taken to approaching parents of talented kids from other clubs at u8 or u9 level, asking them to switch to their club - promising them "a pathway" to LOI football and pro career!!
Clubs have also taken to running competitive tournaments at very young age. FAI guidelines are that this shouldn't occur until u12 level but as you allude to, there are coaches there who see themselves as next Pep or Ancelotti and seem keen to push these tournaments to judge their own credentials.

Kids themselves love the competitive edge anyway and even at 7 or 8 are desperately keen to know the score at end of match but as in GAA, are happy enough with blitz matches with no overall winner or medals on offer.

If any consolation, apparently things much worse in Dublin with bigger clubs being very aggressive in trying to poach any "talent" they see in smaller outfits!!

 

[diggerman]

There's a nasty edge developing in schoolboys soccer with issues like the above becoming more prevalent in the last few years. There are a few "usual suspect" clubs who are most at fault but the CSL need to be more proactive in enforcing the rules.
We refuse to play friendly games with one or two clubs that are certainly padding their team with few players couple of years above the age group.
Coaching at u9 level we split the group into different mixed ability teams but have had other teams saying - no - we want to play "elite" players only. This for 8-9 year olds FFS!! Hardly the Barca academy we're talking about here!!

One quite high profile club has taken to approaching parents of talented kids from other clubs at u8 or u9 level, asking them to switch to their club - promising them "a pathway" to LOI football and pro career!!
Clubs have also taken to running competitive tournaments at very young age. FAI guidelines are that this shouldn't occur until u12 level but as you allude to, there are coaches there who see themselves as next Pep or Ancelotti and seem keen to push these tournaments to judge their own credentials.

Kids themselves love the competitive edge anyway and even at 7 or 8 are desperately keen to know the score at end of match but as in GAA, are happy enough with blitz matches with no overall winner or medals on offer.

If any consolation, apparently things much worse in Dublin with bigger clubs being very aggressive in trying to poach any "talent" they see in smaller outfits!!

Scouting players at 8 and 9 is nuts. Just let them play

 

[Happyhonkaman]

Scouting players at 8 and 9 is nuts. Just let them play

Completely normal in Dublin, shur Home Farm, Kevin’s, Shels, Rovers etc are all assembled teams by that age. Playing them Is a poisoned chalice!

One of my youngfellas buddies joined his 3rd team last September for the start of the U13 season! His dad is mad for it, if he plays at a decent level eventually I will eat my hat as I just dont see that top level player there, he is benefitting far too much at the moment due to his size/physicality against kids that haven't developed yet but who am I to know?!