Cork Minor Hurling 2023

[Dinger]

Firstly, Rebel Og aren’t permitted to run u12 and u13 championships but they do run leagues.
Secondly there were never u17 competitions until the gowls in Croke Park started fiddling in things they knew nothing about, 17 year olds played Minor which was then u18.
Thirdly, why would 13 year olds be forced to play u15? Would they not have their own competitions at u13?

Wasn't aware they were prevented from running U12 and U13 championship.

Doesn't change my opinion that it's something that should be reinstated. I'm aware that previously age groups went from U16 to minor at U18.

In my example U13s have to play up at U15s to enable the club's U14s have a team to play with. It's a problem that will arise every second year under the current system. It may not be an issue for clubs with good numbers at each age.

Of course, as you say, the U13s in my example can play U13s also.

You seem to have dismissed this as not a real issue. I can assure you that it is.

 

[red&blue]

Wasn't aware they were prevented from running U12 and U13 championship.

Doesn't change my opinion that it's something that should be reinstated. I'm aware that previously age groups went from U16 to minor at U18.

In my example U13s have to play up at U15s to enable the club's U14s have a team to play with. It's a problem that will arise every second year under the current system. It may not be an issue for clubs with good numbers at each age.

Of course, as you say, the U13s in my example can play U13s also.

You seem to have dismissed this as not a real issue. I can assure you that it is.

Whatever about u13 championship being reinstated u12 is gone decades and won’t be coming back

Don’t your club have any 15 year olds, just 13s and 14s? That’s what your post sounds like to me.

And I am dismissing nothing, I know exactly the problems that exist in so called smaller clubs

 

[red&blue]

People are competitive r&b and winning a Minor County is (rightly) seen as a springboard to future senior success. Hard to ask a club to sacrifice that if they see others not doing likewise.

Why are they sacrificing that if every other club has to do the same?

 

[JimmyBarrySmurph]

JimmyBarrySMurph

Those who you refer are put forward by the clubs but elected by the board.

We didn't see transparency in the building of the new stadium, okay more down to the old brigade rather than KO'D and his officers I'd imagine.

You have it wrong or are mis-understaing what I stated regarding Denis Ring, he was re-appointed as minor manager time and time again from 2001 and then he was given the U-20 manager job. Under the set-up I suggested he wouldn't be there since the noughties. Likewise John Meyler would not be senior manager from U-16 manager.

Agree with managers starting at underage first but then they should be promoted through the age levels when they have done well and after good receptive vibes from that particular training camp. This is not the case with last years U-15's, who are this years U-16's with Meyler in charge of the whole set-up.

I already mentioned in other posts players such as Cathal Hickey and Brian Moylan (both Glen Rovers) never getting a chance with Cork.

The way Stephen Lynam and Ben Heffernan (also both Glen Rovers) were treated by last year's minor management and only 1 from the Douglas Minor winning side making the Cork panel including extended panel, James O'Callaghan-Maher being left out comes to mind here at the very least.

Someone over in the football forum referred to managements putting players on the scrap heap if they haven't performed to the managements satisfaction early in their career, this has also happened in Cork hurling with players such as Stephen Moylan (Douglas), Stephen Murphy (Blackrock) and Aidan Ryan (Midleton) all in this category down to poor judgement. Cork have paid the price hugely for all this carry on not having won an AI senior title in 18 years and likely to be counting again after this year.

We shall agree to differ I guess.

I believe Cork county board is very well run by an excellent executive now. KOD a shining light in Cork GAA for me. But admittedly I’m not close to that action.
You somehow mention the stadium, a horrendous legacy problem from previous, that I’d hate to be dealing with. The debacle will weigh heavy on Cork GAA for decades with those responsible on the inside and the professionals outside not answerable and beyond reproach. History will record their contribution in the fullness of time I hope. The dogs on the street know the truth.

Again, it’s well documented internationally in sport that it’s not good practice for underage managers automatically progress to senior management as a right of passage. In fact, the most successful underage academies have the same coaching staff in place for several years, for the obvious good reasons.
I also favour the best manager and management team on offer getting the senior gig at a time. Of course, the ideal is that a successful U20 or minor management team is the best option.

GAA and sport is littered with casualty stories. It’s how you react to inevitable set backs is what’s important.
Being on or off a Cork minor team should is not the be all and end all.. that’s proven over and over

As for politics, opinions or preferences or poor judgement calls it’s in every part of life, sports reflects that..
As for dirty politics my father and grandfather spun unbelievable stories of strokes pulled and how lads especially from smaller clubs were kept off Cork minor panels 50+ years ago.

I do have some reservations about the development squad structure. Drawing up squads & traffic lighting guys development pathway too early being my main one.. I think it’s all delivering a softer Cork hurler and footballer than the previous model.
Also it seems there is a focus on physical size (not physicality) and I shudder at the thought of so many of our all time greats in both codes recently and in days gone past who wouldn’t have passed through that sieve
Also the sheer size of Cork does not help. I think under KOD there now seems to be an objective to keep the divisional panels in place all the way through to minor, keeping that coaching net wide and the door open to guys with talent, commitment and the correct attitude.

Cork haven’t won hurling All Irelands for almost 20 years because simply they don’t have the senior hurlers good enough or the physicality to do it. Very very unlucky in 2013 for sure but nowhere near it other than that. And I don’t see them near it this year either- other than than Cahalane, Hayes and Cunningham coming from the Barr’s I haven’t seen anything major to make me think they are but I hope I’m all wrong. Having seen club hurling championship in 4 counties, Corks club hurling is so obviously lacking physicality..

 

[Corkonian1]

JimmyBarrySMurph

Agree to differ is right!

I've not being critical of KO'D, I wish him best of luck and I'm prepared to wait and see over some time what he delivers. However the club delegates to County Board are on a similar track now as they were before KO'D and therefore I believe change is too slow.

Correct regarding the stadium and 'the dogs on the street' do know the truth, wasn't a lot of the truth highlighted before the project was finalised so I believe I'm correct in stating transparency wasn't adhered.

Cork abandoned their culture of direct hurling through over coaching of a game that really isn't proper hurling and demands huge physicality following on from hierarchy directives. The County Board over many years didn't care and ignored reality and gave the managerial and coaching jobs mainly to those who obeyed their agendas. The 'dogs on the street' are wise enough to this as well but too much is kept quiet.

As for the calls you refer to being reflected in sport it is down to tolerance and Cork people are far too tolerant and casual even more so than their fellow Irish. Regarding the 'caualty stories' when they effect player development within youth in particular those who caused the 'casualty' should be weeded out but again tolerance is the issue. Too many people within a family are hurt. I don't empathise with managers/selectors who leave out a player who 'the dogs on the street' know is good enough for the team so I don't agree with your 'be all and end all' philosophy.

It is wrong to appoint a senior manager from the position of juvenile manager and this is why John Meyler should never have got the Cork Senior Hurling Manager's job. Any correct set-up would appoint him only to the next level and that was the practice in Pat Ryan's appointment.

I agree with you on the underage development squad structure but over coaching is again a huge problem here, didn't a poster on here state that the Cork minors had up to 8 coaches involved in a challenge game v Midleton CBS last week. However I don't agree with you that KO'D is keeping the divisional panels together up to minor, firstly they are regional panels and not divisional. Secondly the players in one part of the region have little in common with other players from the region which puts more burden on players and their parents driving them to matches and training etc. The City and West lads form one regional panel for the 2022 Cork U-15 and this years U-16 Cork team and apparently John Meyler favours them big time over other regional panels players for the Cork team, this simply should not and cannot be the case if the county board are doing their job.

I believe your descendants are correct about strokes pulled back the years but it's the amount of strokes that count in a specific period and the fact that power corrupts more over time and the self appointed Kaiser and his cronies were in the hot seats for nearly 50 years with the club delegates mainly their obediant's so a decline was imperative. Remember Cork had a great success rate per decade at all levels and then only a few AI's in 17 years.

You acknowledge Cork were unlucky in 2013 but they were also unlucky in 2017 and 2018. Reffing decisions were huge against Cork winning the All-Ireland any of those 3 years. The hierarchy definitely penalised Cork for the strikes and the aforementioned County Board stayed silent and a lot of folk don't want to hear or speak a word relating same to this day. If Cork won 2 of those 3 All-Irelands they would have emulated the 80's team. I believe they would definitely have won 2 if there were no county board agendas in that period and attention to detail and honesty was applied on selectoral decisions alone not to mind the rest.

 

[LITB1997]

JimmyBarrySMurph

Agree to differ is right!

I've not being critical of KO'D, I wish him best of luck and I'm prepared to wait and see over some time what he delivers. However the club delegates to County Board are on a similar track now as they were before KO'D and therefore I believe change is too slow.

Correct regarding the stadium and 'the dogs on the street' do know the truth, wasn't a lot of the truth highlighted before the project was finalised so I believe I'm correct in stating transparency wasn't adhered.

Cork abandoned their culture of direct hurling through over coaching of a game that really isn't proper hurling and demands huge physicality following on from hierarchy directives. The County Board over many years didn't care and ignored reality and gave the managerial and coaching jobs mainly to those who obeyed their agendas. The 'dogs on the street' are wise enough to this as well but too much is kept quiet.

As for the calls you refer to being reflected in sport it is down to tolerance and Cork people are far too tolerant and casual even more so than their fellow Irish. Regarding the 'caualty stories' when they effect player development within youth in particular those who caused the 'casualty' should be weeded out but again tolerance is the issue. Too many people within a family are hurt. I don't empathise with managers/selectors who leave out a player who 'the dogs on the street' know is good enough for the team so I don't agree with your 'be all and end all' philosophy.

It is wrong to appoint a senior manager from the position of juvenile manager and this is why John Meyler should never have got the Cork Senior Hurling Manager's job. Any correct set-up would appoint him only to the next level and that was the practice in Pat Ryan's appointment.

I agree with you on the underage development squad structure but over coaching is again a huge problem here, didn't a poster on here state that the Cork minors had up to 8 coaches involved in a challenge game v Midleton CBS last week. However I don't agree with you that KO'D is keeping the divisional panels together up to minor, firstly they are regional panels and not divisional. Secondly the players in one part of the region have little in common with other players from the region which puts more burden on players and their parents driving them to matches and training etc. The City and West lads form one regional panel for the 2022 Cork U-15 and this years U-16 Cork team and apparently John Meyler favours them big time over other regional panels players for the Cork team, this simply should not and cannot be the case if the county board are doing their job.

I believe your descendants are correct about strokes pulled back the years but it's the amount of strokes that count in a specific period and the fact that power corrupts more over time and the self appointed Kaiser and his cronies were in the hot seats for nearly 50 years with the club delegates mainly their obediant's so a decline was imperative. Remember Cork had a great success rate per decade at all levels and then only a few AI's in 17 years.

You acknowledge Cork were unlucky in 2013 but they were also unlucky in 2017 and 2018. Reffing decisions were huge against Cork winning the All-Ireland any of those 3 years. The hierarchy definitely penalised Cork for the strikes and the aforementioned County Board stayed silent and a lot of folk don't want to hear or speak a word relating same to this day. If Cork won 2 of those 3 All-Irelands they would have emulated the 80's team. I believe they would definitely have won 2 if there were no county board agendas in that period and attention to detail and honesty was applied on selectoral decisions alone not to mind the rest.

Corkonian,
Very very well argued and set out. You clearly know what went on with the underage U15 last year and u16 this year. I stood on the ditch for much of the development squads training sessions and their matches. I would always have given John Meyler the benefit of the doubt, but quickly parents got pissed off. It is a fact that he followed the City West team to all their games and not the North East panels. He took possession of the Red jerseys that the young lads wanted and kept them for the City West team. Parents complained that the North East was like being the poor cousin. Midleton and Youghal and other East Cork teams won underage all around them. There were players in those teams well able and equal to or better than some in on City West, but he showed a blatant bias towards the big City Clubs and a lot of the very good young u15’s and their parents were gutted at the carry on. Almost as a gesture he called some to them back for a trial game before Christmas. Parents said it was a token gesture because most of these lads hadn’t played or trained in 4-5 weeks as the season was over, whilst the actual panel was training and playing games. There is no doubt he puts admirable effort into it and certainly was a good coach for the training sessions and I was impressed with that, but the clear favouritism towards city west was blatant. He simply had no mass on the players from north east. A lot of the parents, even those whose lads retained their places are not happy with the set up now and some are drifting away. Very disappointing when u consider the potential of the combined ability of city west and north east panels, which to me looked very promising.

 

[Cork552]

As far as I am aware the u18 league u17 championship is gonna pass at tomorrow nights meeting but my own club are gonna field there u17 team in it and I am sure other clubs will follow suit

 

[red&blue]

S

As far as I am aware the u18 league u17 championship is gonna pass at tomorrow nights meeting but my own club are gonna field there u17 team in it and I am sure other clubs will follow suit

Shame on any club that tells an u18 player they cannot play in an u18 league game because they are not u17. Funny how the talk all year from clubs was that most 18 year olds weren’t ready to play adult grade games and now clubs are going to be at this shit? Shameful stuff

 

[leeside_rebel]

As far as I am aware the u18 league u17 championship is gonna pass at tomorrow nights meeting but my own club are gonna field there u17 team in it and I am sure other clubs will follow suit

Are u saying 18 year olds will be allowed play in minor league, but then for championship they can't ?
That sounds like a total disaster of a set up

 

[red&blue]

Are u saying 18 year olds will be allowed play in minor league, but then for championship they can't ?
That sounds like a total disaster of a set up

As far as I’m aware will be no minor (u17) league, just championship