Cork life centre

[The High King]

And one final point. Anti treaty people were in power within a decade of the end of the civil war. They set about the constitution, setting up the presidency, removing the oath and all that stuff. Partition was nowhere near the top of their agenda.

See my post about Dev being an irrelevance once the Civil war broke out. So I dont accept that anti treaty people were in power. At least not in the sense of those who were in power in the Civil war.
Dev always had his own agenda. It was only when the Civil war ended and some major figures were eliminated that he became relevant again. Dev didn't give two fucks about the North, never did.
Im nor a fan of Dev or the treaty.

 

[Corks finest]

In what way would you think the GFA is not good for them CF?

First off it means that they can almost certainly live their daily lives without worrying about being shot or blown up which is the most important thing for everyone up there surely? I assume you are referring to discriminatory stuff with regards to education, jobs etc?

Working class areas still v deprived,
Unemployment still high,
Jobs scarce,
Discrimination not one sided anymore- both unionist and nationalist working class ppl see no difference,
Only the fat cat ‘community “ workers ( SF/Provos / UVF/ UDA have gained in monetary terms)

 

[Corks finest]

And one final point. Anti treaty people were in power within a decade of the end of the civil war. They set about the constitution, setting up the presidency, removing the oath and all that stuff. Partition was nowhere near the top of their agenda.

Majority- vast majority of active anti treaty volunteers left the country.
Develera hounded and executed his ex comrades aswell

 

[Killyoursons]

There you go. The Munster plantation and the other plantations and Anglo Irish rule in general set up the treaty in the same way the Ulster plantation set up the north. They hadn't gone away you know. If you dont think they backed the pro treaty movement then you're deluded. Just look at the media of the time to see what side capital rowed in on.

The gentry and monied interests did support the Treaty, but it's v hard to say that they were decisive in the election. After all, the same interests would have opposed Sinn Fein in 1918, but that didn't prevent the Home Rule party and the Unionists (in what became the Free State) being routed. In terms of whether or not the people supported the Treaty, all we have to go on are the Daily vote and the election, and the pro-Treaty side won both.

 

[The High King]

The gentry and monied interests did support the Treaty, but it's v hard to say that they were decisive in the election. After all, the same interests would have opposed Sinn Fein in 1918, but that didn't prevent the Home Rule party and the Unionists (in what became the Free State) being routed. In terms of whether or not the people supported the Treaty, all we have to go on are the Daily vote and the election, and the pro-Treaty side won both.

They took their chance. Once the division occured it was divide and conquer.
The Treaty divided what had before then been unified resistance.
Once again Id like to stress I hate Dev. This simplified view of the Civil war we have all been fed of Collins vs Dev gets on my nerves. It's much more complex then that.

 

[Killyoursons]

They took their chance. Once the division occured it was divide and conquer.
The Treaty divided what had before then been unified resistance.
Once again Id like to stress I hate Dev. This simplified view of the Civil war we have all been fed of Collins vs Dev gets on my nerves. It's much more complex then that.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but sooner or later most revolutionary movements divide between the relatively moderate and the relatively extreme. And the evidence we have, limited though it is, is that the people supported the moderate position.

Fwiw I agree that Dev's role in the Civil War is overstated a bit in popular culture. Perhaps it was inevitable, since he rejected the Treaty and went on to have a hugely important political career.