Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Hallbopping]

It's borderline moronic to single out one player's temperament after the team losing two finals....this is the point.

Also I think anyone who has played the game even at u12 D level would realise questioning a fellas temperament for the "big day" is a desperate insult of a player. 100 other things you could analyse before getting to that. Questioning if a fella might be "good enough" as an overall package is different and not what that poster said tbf!

I don't see any sign of it with Deccy either. Any player who can effectively do a job a player like K Hayes in knockout hurling isn't lacking anything upstairs or inside the jersey imo.

I think the whole group failed to perform on the big day twice, some of them 3 times. I agree that singling out one player from that is just looking for a scapegoat.

On temperament, there are players who are good enough but who don’t hold their composure together when things go against the. Himself along with 1 or 2 others need to look at their final performances and ask why they’ve tanked. If it’s temperament then that can be addressed.

I think Dalton has suffered a bit from the hype. Some lads have him on HOTY levels and I just don’t see it. He did a great job of taking Hayes out of the game in Croke Park and has had other good games for Cork but he seems to me to be a bit of a one trick pony. He’ll look fantastic when bombing one over from 80 metres out and that’s a great skill. But shut down the spade around him and what does he have? That’s not his fault, it’s just the type of player he is.

 

[Thanks]

Disappointing that Dalton didn’t make the bench as an option but obviously mgt rate the forwards listed ahead of him more and plan to bring them in. End of discussion

 

[omar]

I think the whole group failed to perform on the big day twice, some of them 3 times. I agree that singling out one player from that is just looking for a scapegoat.

On temperament, there are players who are good enough but who don’t hold their composure together when things go against the. Himself along with 1 or 2 others need to look at their final performances and ask why they’ve tanked. If it’s temperament then that can be addressed.

I think Dalton has suffered a bit from the hype. Some lads have him on HOTY levels and I just don’t see it. He did a great job of taking Hayes out of the game in Croke Park and has had other good games for Cork but he seems to me to be a bit of a one trick pony. He’ll look fantastic when bombing one over from 80 metres out and that’s a great skill. But shut down the spade around him and what does he have? That’s not his fault, it’s just the type of player he is.

The merits around Dalton's ability to make the team are fine....as I said eariler I've no problem with him not being named in the starting 15. I think not naming him in the 26 is a big mistake imo. He has a lot of strings to his bow as a player imo. Dead balls being one of them and an area we aren't yet proven in without Hoggie.

However Ben made this call. I don't agree with it but respect Ben knows more about the game than I do, however saying he's dropped because of his temperament as a fact isn't a fair summary imo and what I posted about. I think it's important if we criticise a player it's fair and I don't see any sign of that being fair....or at least not Deccy on his own in that regard.

 

[hurley68]

Disappointing that Dalton didn’t make the bench as an option but obviously mgt rate the forwards listed ahead of him more and plan to bring them in. End of discussion

Spot on...think we should leave it at that.

 

[Pooman]

So our only outlet for long puckouts is an U20 debutante who has played a small bit of league. In any mans language that's a huge concern.

 

[mathuna]

That's a brilliant piece by Thady Quill. Sums up probably all of our fears, hopes & thoughts. Beautifully written too. Fair play.

At the start of the league I thought we had to find a new goalie (I thought Saunderson most likely at the time), full back (probably Daire O'Leary) and bed in Cormac O'Brien at number 7 to bolster and solidify the defence. I also thought Tommy O'Connell should come into midfield, alongside Darragh Fitz, with Tim moving to the 40 - to give us more ball winning ability on the half forward line as the great Seamie H. moved to a new role. I thought Buckley most likely to profit from Hoggie's retirement.

Most of that hasn't transpired. Instead we're going with the same 1-7 again with two players swapping positions. I hadn't seen Barry Walsh's rise coming this quickly. Pluses and minuses.

Apart from the selection, I do worry about how we are playing too. I just hope, desperately, that something was being held back in the league. That there is actually some tactical nous and not a 'we'll play our way' mentality from great Cork players of the past who deep in their bones believe we can just 'play how we want' and let the opposition worry about us. That can work if you have superior players. We don't. We have a fine squad. Almost as good as is out there. But we can't be above 'sacrificing' some sacred cows of tactics to stop the opposition from opening up our full back line as has happened for the last ten+ years.

I can't wait for Sunday. Can't wait. I know I'll be hoarse come Monday morning and sitting a Teams call with some random Yank explaining why I'm hoarse and he won't understand anything I'm talking about. Hopefully I'll be explaining how we ransacked the current champions in their own backyard - but I'm very apprehensive going into this one for all the reasons above.

 

[omar]

So our only outlet for long puckouts is an U20 debutante who has played a small bit of league. In any mans language that's a huge concern.

I'd agree Pooman. As Mathuna said below you'd hope we were holding something back in the league around puckouts especially.

Tipp showed last July they could handle the long one to Hayes and breaks off him.

Outside of Hayes, you're looking at creating pockets of space and running Tipp around. That's something we tried for years with very inconsistent results from game to game.

At some stage in a game that strategy will be figured out by opposition and you'll have to stand your ground and fight for a puckout or three. The forward line selected isn't best suited to that imo.

 

[JimmyBarrySmurph]

On Dalton, it seemed obvious to me that he would likely lose out when BOC got the gig, given the style of hurling BOC plays. On top of that, this decision is not new, every Cork selection committee making similar decision over the last 10 years.
Like society, there is a herd mentality on here between us all about certain players and certain situations, which is not grounded in reality unfortunately. In here certain players have a massively elevated status above what they’ve done on the field in the Cork red (mostly panelists) and others are made scapegoats whenever we get clipped and often even when we go well (eg Harnedy for a few years, Damo, Coleman, SOD).
BOC & Curran referenced what the worst part of the job for them is- the 26. Ronan gave an interview a few days ago where he spoke about the challenge he faced when he was a panelist for a few years. It’s not easy.

For me, I don’t agree with the 15 but what do I know. For me what’s more important is 4 things-that we need to see a 30% increase in work rate, improvement on what we do with the sliotar after we win our own puckouts, dependent on how Tipp will set up up front we should have 3 plans for that- to close down the space in attack and we need to stop being so predictable ourselves, adjust our own shape in attack and how we move the ball into that. These 4 areas for me are actually more important for Cork and where we are at than the selection.

 

[Corkfan82]

Do I worry about Connolly and Hayes temperament, no. Do I think Daltons is questionable, yes.
There are no double standards from me, there is a different opinion from you. Well entitled to it.

Any statements with "Connolly and Hayes" is nonsense. There is no comparison.

Hayes has carried Cork. Probably our most important player. Al star, POTY nominee.

Connolly produced f all last year bar the Dublin hammering in which Hayes set him up. Connolly is lucky enough to be starting IMO.

I hope Connolly produces consistently this year. He has placed a huge target on his back with his interviews. He will be hammered in the media outside of Cork and inside if he has another poor year.

 

[Ondaball]

Lads, seems odd to me that Shane Kingston, who despite his faults has performed very well for cork many a time off the bench, isn't included in the 26. I recently watched back last years munster final and his pace made a huge difference off the bench, id have rather seen himself and deccie on the bench over robbie, and also over paddy power and Alan walsh who while I have hope for longer term, are novices at this level realistically and both of whom have had very little gametime.