Cork Hurlers - Part 2

[Corkonian1]

I get your point but we dont always have to play 3 in the FF line.

If we're playing teams like Tipp who take short puck outs, yeah let play a 3 man ff line, play Brian Roche corner forward were his tackling is excellent leading to goals for us and a failed tactic for them.

If playing more direct teams, play Dalton FF.

Otherwise as others have said, drop a corner forward back, give our defence a break, not every game has to be a shoot out.

I agree but I think 'always' is the key word here, to score what Cork have been scoring I believe they need a 3 man ff line, however can they adapt to a 2 man against certain opposition or during matches is doubtful but if they can Brian Roche is key. If Roche is corner-forward he will be mainly tackling the corner-back but he will also be required to score heavily enough which is difficult to see at this point but if he's selected corner-forward and actually playing out-field which is the most likely way he'll be played under Ben then his tackling and work rate should see him come to the fore to Cork's benefit. I don't see him as a natural corner-forward or a savior but effective because of his workrate and tackling in certain games.

Likewise I don't see Deccie Dalton as a natural full-forward, Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement. It's disappointing Cork don't have a forward who can dominate an opponent in the air when one considers the attack is the strong area of the team.

Not every game has to be a shoot out but the bread and butter of defending needs to be in defence rather than relying on a forward to give the backs a break. Likewise in attack Cork will need a better aerial threat which is one reason why I'd move Tim O'Mahony up field, if Brian Hayes, Dalton or Connolly could bring fetching to their game we'd see a real improvement.

In stating the above I believe Ben will agree with you more than me and we will see a pulling players back set-up attempting to crowd opponents and then break fast when in possession which will mean the speedsters will dominate the selection when they take to grass by next April. Who knows, with Ben more likely to talk up to the hierarchy more so than Pat Ryan on the riding Cork are receiving from establishment and officials along with this method of playing we may eventually get over the line and see the holy grail but I doubt it will be in 2026.

 

[Jon Hurling]

I really hope John Horgan has a profile on PROC. John if you are reading this give up on the articles in de echo please.

 

[BlueMagic]

I agree but I think 'always' is the key word here, to score what Cork have been scoring I believe they need a 3 man ff line, however can they adapt to a 2 man against certain opposition or during matches is doubtful but if they can Brian Roche is key. If Roche is corner-forward he will be mainly tackling the corner-back but he will also be required to score heavily enough which is difficult to see at this point but if he's selected corner-forward and actually playing out-field which is the most likely way he'll be played under Ben then his tackling and work rate should see him come to the fore to Cork's benefit. I don't see him as a natural corner-forward or a savior but effective because of his workrate and tackling in certain games.

Likewise I don't see Deccie Dalton as a natural full-forward, Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement. It's disappointing Cork don't have a forward who can dominate an opponent in the air when one considers the attack is the strong area of the team.

Not every game has to be a shoot out but the bread and butter of defending needs to be in defence rather than relying on a forward to give the backs a break. Likewise in attack Cork will need a better aerial threat which is one reason why I'd move Tim O'Mahony up field, if Brian Hayes, Dalton or Connolly could bring fetching to their game we'd see a real improvement.

In stating the above I believe Ben will agree with you more than me and we will see a pulling players back set-up attempting to crowd opponents and then break fast when in possession which will mean the speedsters will dominate the selection when they take to grass by next April. Who knows, with Ben more likely to talk up to the hierarchy more so than Pat Ryan on the riding Cork are receiving from establishment and officials along with this method of playing we may eventually get over the line and see the holy grail but I doubt it will be in 2026.

"Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement"

If you believe all this to be true about any player (not just Dalton), then need to consider if he needs to be moved on. We've suffered enough by carrying too many forwards in the last 20 years who need the ball given to them...

N.B. Not having a pop off Hoggy - man was a genius and an outlier.

 

[jimmycooper]

"Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement"

If you believe all this to be true about any player (not just Dalton), then need to consider if he needs to be moved on. We've suffered enough by carrying too many forwards in the last 20 years who need the ball given to them...

N.B. Not having a pop off Hoggy - man was a genius and an outlier.

Would they not try Dalton in goals?

 

[KolaKubes]

"Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement"

If you believe all this to be true about any player (not just Dalton), then need to consider if he needs to be moved on. We've suffered enough by carrying too many forwards in the last 20 years who need the ball given to them...

N.B. Not having a pop off Hoggy - man was a genius and an outlier.

Dalton wouldn’t be questioned in any other county. Some of the lads seriously being suggested and we’d drop one of our few genuine intercounty forwards, able to field ball, hold off a marker, hook and block, score from distance.

I do suspect he’s one of the lads that nerves get to and wouldn’t blame him with people putting the boot in on the guy. But the same standards were applied to other stars.

 

[jimmycooper]

I think the age thing was complete rubbish with Hoggy. He performed better than Hayes and Connolly alot of the time.

 

[KolaKubes]

I think the age thing was complete rubbish with Hoggy. He performed better than Hayes and Connolly alot of the time.

This year?

Definitely not. Hayes was hurler of the year for me. Connolly fair enough but I think any two of them would have looked better up there.

 

[North Cork]

Dalton wouldn’t be questioned in any other county. Some of the lads seriously being suggested and we’d drop one of our few genuine intercounty forwards, able to field ball, hold off a marker, hook and block, score from distance.

I do suspect he’s one of the lads that nerves get to and wouldn’t blame him with people putting the boot in on the guy. But the same standards were applied to other stars.

Sometimes a player is put into a position for the good of the team rather than being put into a position that may suit him best. Declan Dalton is imo played at wing forward for his strength and ball winning ability. By that I mean that even if he isn't winning clear possession, generally speaking neither is his marker.
I think at the very highest level when the ground is hard and hurling at it's fastest I think he lacks a yard of pace for the half forward line.
I think that he would provide a huge threat at full forward whereas Alan Connolly may be more dangerous with more space to play in because he is also a decent ball winner but is very very pacy.

I think that Hayes, Barrett , Harnedy, Connolly and Healy will all be hard to shift off the team next year. Unlike some on here I do really rate Alan Connolly highly and I think with a bit more freedom on the pitch he can be a huge player for us. Harnedy may not start every game , but maybe he will depending on form and fitness. Either way it is a difficult team to break into.


I notice one poster in particular constantly refer to the two points scored in the second half of the All Ireland final and I think it must be the only game he watched all season as anyone watching Cork this season will realise and accept this is a potent forward line that had an absolute nightmare against Tipp in spite of beating them comfortably twice before. The challenge for BOC is to make sure these collapses stop happening, we saw it earlier against Limerick as well . I thought the point made by Ciaran Carey was valid when he mentioned the lack of leadership on the team.

 

[KolaKubes]

Sometimes a player is put into a position for the good of the team rather than being put into a position that may suit him best. Declan Dalton is imo played at wing forward for his strength and ball winning ability. By that I mean that even if he isn't winning clear possession, generally speaking neither is his marker.
I think at the very highest level when the ground is hard and hurling at it's fastest I think he lacks a yard of pace for the half forward line.
I think that he would provide a huge threat at full forward whereas Alan Connolly may be more dangerous with more space to play in because he is also a decent ball winner but is very very pacy.

I think that Hayes, Barrett , Harnedy, Connolly and Healy will all be hard to shift off the team next year. Unlike some on here I do really rate Alan Connolly highly and I think with a bit more freedom on the pitch he can be a huge player for us. Harnedy may not start every game , but maybe he will depending on form and fitness. Either way it is a difficult team to break into.


I notice one poster in particular constantly refer to the two points scored in the second half of the All Ireland final and I think it must be the only game he watched all season as anyone watching Cork this season will realise and accept this is a potent forward line that had an absolute nightmare against Tipp in spite of beating them comfortably twice before. The challenge for BOC is to make sure these collapses stop happening, we saw it earlier against Limerick as well . I thought the point made by Ciaran Carey was valid when he mentioned the lack of leadership on the team.

Good post.

There’s no point talking about the forwards being fundamentally shit. In the first half they had 1-16.

We all felt nervous after the first half but that’s enough scoring to win any All Ireland.

I didn’t see anything in that first half that resembled the collapse before the red card. We weren’t purring and blowing them away but I don’t think Tipp upped their game so much as Cork couldn’t do anything at all right and that’s psychological as much as tactical.

There seems more resistance to that than makes sense, the data fits it. Maybe Tipp went up to have a cut off it remembering it’s sport whereas Cork have half a million people leaning over them ramping up the stress.

 

[Corkonian1]

"Dalton doesn't have a sharp turn and he's not dominant in the air for a big man, he relies on breaking ball or others creating movement"

If you believe all this to be true about any player (not just Dalton), then need to consider if he needs to be moved on. We've suffered enough by carrying too many forwards in the last 20 years who need the ball given to them...

N.B. Not having a pop off Hoggy - man was a genius and an outlier.

I was referring to Corkfan82 suggesting playing Deccie full-forward, for the No. 14 position you need at least one of those attributes. I don't think Dalton's power and finishing are enough qualities on their own for the position and believes he needs more space. However I could be wrong and he maybe still worth looking at there with Hayes, Power or Connolly. Let's face it over those years the only forwards who could win ball consistently in the air were Pa Cronin and Seamus Harnedy and I believe both would be caught on their feet for playing at 14.