Cork County Board – sending small clubs back to the bad old days

[Killyoursons]

there were no mass exodus’ before, i doubt there would be again

As before, I would first of all listen to what the locals say regarding the dangers of players moving - maybe they would agree with you, maybe not. Also, we don't have to be talking about a mass exodus - if a club is struggling to field at a specific age, just a couple of players leaving would make a big difference.

they are all just suggestions for god sake, its not as if Pat Horgan will be implementing them next year

Sure. That's all anyone can do here, after all. But I think your suggestions had important shortcomings, and in your posts you tend to overlook the advantages of an established and functioning amalgamation.

 

[red&blue]

^^^Earlier today, engagement.

If you are going to lie at least make a factual effort.
Tbh all though I did engage earlier, it’s pointless as you have zero respect for small clubs and their struggles.

that wasn’t engagement, that was you deciding what i believe, and doing it badly

 

[red&blue]

As before, I would first of all listen to what the locals say regarding the dangers of players moving - maybe they would agree with you, maybe not. Also, we don't have to be talking about a mass exodus - if a club is struggling to field at a specific age, just a couple of players leaving would make a big difference.

ifs buts and maybes

Sure. That's all anyone can do here, after all. But I think your suggestions had important shortcomings, and in your posts you tend to overlook the advantages of an established and functioning amalgamation.

we all have important shortcomings in our posts killy

 

[Henrys Fonda]

that wasn’t engagement, that was you deciding what i believe, and doing it badly

If you say so. It's obvious to everyone else.

 

[red&blue]

If you say so. It's obvious to everyone else.

delighted for ye

 

[Reservedcitizen]

No club wants to amalgamate unless extremely necessary, a point lost on a few posters on this thread

Disagree. There is a cohort in these amalgamations that are more focused on trying to play at a higher grade for their kids, as opposed to the greater good for everybody in the club. I've had that directly said to me from a parent.

 

[Henrys Fonda]

Disagree. There is a cohort in these amalgamations that are more focused on trying to play at a higher grade for their kids, as opposed to the greater good for everybody in the club. I've had that directly said to me from a parent.

Wow, one parent, it must be true of all amalgamations so. My apologies

 

[peopleluas]

The one very noticeable trend on this thread is the avoidance of reference to specific school roll numbers published by the dept of education in order to identify the difference between:
(a) there simply not being enough boys in the area;
(b) there being an issue with recruitment or retention of boys in the club.

Now just because the boys exist does not of itself lead to successful recruitment or retention of them. There are some clubs in the county who are outstanding in that regard, and all clubs can't be as good at that (especially not all of a sudden). But those outstanding clubs have shown what is possible. I am not from Cill Na Martra, but I see that their two schools combined had 55 boys on their school rolls at the end of September 2024. Divide by 8 for boys per year on average. They don't amalgamate - thought surely it must be a massive struggle, and I certainly wouldn't object if they found themselves some year with some group in a situation where they needed to. In our club, I frequently refer to how outstanding CNM are in this regard - I also concede that perhaps we can't be as good as them, but I ask what is different about our club that prevents that, and if those things are changeable or not.

But back to the numbers. How about when somebody here posts about a need to amalgamate, they share the number of boys which the dept of ed has published as being on their school roll at the end of Sept 2024 (so people can check)? In some cases the need for amalgamations will be totally obvious. In other cases, people might explain that the need for the amalgamation are due to some differences compared to CNM - and I think it would be informative for readers here to better understand those differences and the extent to which they make a substantial difference.

 

[Dinger]

The one very noticeable trend on this thread is the avoidance of reference to specific school roll numbers published by the dept of education in order to identify the difference between:
(a) there simply not being enough boys in the area;
(b) there being an issue with recruitment or retention of boys in the club.

Now just because the boys exist does not of itself lead to successful recruitment or retention of them. There are some clubs in the county who are outstanding in that regard, and all clubs can't be as good at that (especially not all of a sudden). But those outstanding clubs have shown what is possible. I am not from Cill Na Martra, but I see that their two schools combined had 55 boys on their school rolls at the end of September 2024. Divide by 8 for boys per year on average. They don't amalgamate - thought surely it must be a massive struggle, and I certainly wouldn't object if they found themselves some year with some group in a situation where they needed to. In our club, I frequently refer to how outstanding CNM are in this regard - I also concede that perhaps we can't be as good as them, but I ask what is different about our club that prevents that, and if those things are changeable or not.

But back to the numbers. How about when somebody here posts about a need to amalgamate, they share the number of boys which the dept of ed has published as being on their school roll at the end of Sept 2024 (so people can check)? In some cases the need for amalgamations will be totally obvious. In other cases, people might explain that the need for the amalgamation are due to some differences compared to CNM - and I think it would be informative for readers here to better understand those differences and the extent to which they make a substantial difference.

School rolls as an indicator of number of available boys, particularly at secondary level, is probably more relevant for rural towns and villages. In the city, clubs can have players attending 5 or 6 different schools not within their traditional catchment area.

Even at primary level 3 or 4 clubs could all be targeting and drawing from the same schools. It's a much more fluid situation for urban clubs.

 

[peopleluas]

School rolls as an indicator of number of available boys, particularly at secondary level, is probably more relevant for rural towns and villages. In the city, clubs can have players attending 5 or 6 different schools not within their traditional catchment area.

Even at primary level 3 or 4 clubs could all be targeting and drawing from the same schools. It's a much more fluid situation for urban clubs.

I agree with all of that, and I would add that secondary level isn't relevant to rural clubs either mostly - 'cos they'd be going to different schools, and the secondary schools area would cover many clubs.

The national school rolls are much more relevant to an analysis of rural clubs, and to some extent too in suburban clubs - it is far more complicated in urban clubs.

For the rural clubs we're talking about in respect of needing to amalgamate, the numbers of boys in the primary schools in their area is surely of profound relevance.