Toilet Signage

[Hank Scorpio]

I suspect you know very well what I mean.

Do you mind if I ask a favour? Try to detach your view on transgender rights and gender identification which fwiw I think we probably are not too far away on - with children or more specifically primary education.

Education in a school is one size fits all, unless there is exemptions due to special educational needs etc. Therefore to exempt a child from trans or gender identification education would actually drive a difference that is not there at all - point being if we are to allow it it would be difficult if not impossible to opt out.

Children do not understand sexuality when they're small. That's as it should be. Kids find it hard to understand why some kids like them and others don't. Gender which is a social construct adults struggle with has no business in their heads. They are nor supposed to understand it. They're supposed to be having fun, making friends , trying their best , playing sports, hoping to be invited to birthday parties, making lists for Santa, dressing up for Halloween. That's what being a child is about.

I fundamentally disagree with any insistence that adult issues of gender, trans, identification should be anywhere near primary school kids except in some way to tell them , as I said, that feeling different is ok.

Why? They are not capable of understanding it properly and they shouldn't be made to because an adult with an agenda wants to force adult concepts on to them to prove a point.

You're a highly intelligent person. You experience people through your practice who find it difficult to operate within the bounds of our laws - as adults. But at least they understand the consequences of their actions. How is an 8 year old girl called Siobhán supposed to comprehend that her friend Aisling today wants to be known as Aodhán. Forget accepting it, understanding the implications of it, just comprehending that today maybe Aisling wants to be related to as a boy and doesn't want to talk to girls.

You know very well the problem with teaching primary kids these concepts. Like I said originally, there's a difference between supporting and championing trans rights and forcing trans concepts on kids who are not capable of understanding them just to serve an agenda.

Kids must be allowed to be kids.

If you detach your advocacy for trans rights from what is in the best interests of primary school children and evaluate primary school kids for where they are physically, emotionally and maturity wise - I suspect you know yourself it shouldn't happen. And that it shouldn't happen in no way diminishes the case for trans rights and advocacy.

She thinks because she finds something acceptable to be discussed with young children then everyone should.

The usual myopia from someone unwilling to see or respect anyone elses point of view. If you disagree you are denying peoples right to exist. Patent nonsense.

INTO have had a lot of blowback on this from teachers who are unhappy with having to bring this stuff into the classroom

 

[Matlock]

She thinks because she finds something acceptable to be discussed with young children then everyone should.

The usual myopia from someone unwilling to see or respect anyone elses point of view. If you disagree you are denying peoples right to exist. Patent nonsense.

INTO have had a lot of blowback on this from teachers who are unhappy with having to bring this stuff into the classroom

Well i wouldn't start by thinking that in order to discuss bisexuality you have to talk to children about sex, that's for sure!

 

[PROCNA2018]

Yes I agree but shur we already force feed them nonsense about a man in the sky that will either send them to heaven or the fiery depths of hell.
As for your example of Siobhan and Aisling, I get your worry for Siobhan grappling to understand, just a pity you could afford the same concern for Aisling and what she is grappling with.

Then with respect you missed the part where I said in my original post that a specially designed package could be used to teach a prospective Aisling that it's ok to be different and in other discussion threads where I've said every support and counselling should be available to young adults to prevent abuse from others and to support them in their journey of self realisation.

 

[Matlock]

Again you're just making stuff up.

Matlock : 'so what you're saying is you're in favour of the holocaust'. Go on from there.

You cant discuss anything without doing it. Its pitiful.

Again, I'm not.

You never answered how you would deal with one of your kids teachers being trans. Given that apparently kids can't bd told about trans people

 

[Matlock]

Then with respect you missed the part where I said in my original post that a specially designed package could be used to teach a prospective Aisling that it's ok to be different and in other discussion threads where I've said every support and counselling should be available to young adults to prevent abuse from others and to support them in their journey of self realisation.

I saw that but I don't understand why only Aisling would be told its OK to be different? ( if that's what you mean).

If you mean that the whole class is bring told its OK to be different then surely that is age appropriate education on gender expression?

 

[TheOutdoorThreadmill]

Then with respect you missed the part where I said in my original post that a specially designed package could be used to teach a prospective Aisling that it's ok to be different and in other discussion threads where I've said every support and counselling should be available to young adults to prevent abuse from others and to support them in their journey of self realisation.

Why only for a prospective Aisling though? Surely Aisling's classmates should be made aware of her circumstance and helped to understand it.

On a side note, imagine the outrage in the Burkes of Galway household today.

 

[fed up]

I saw that but I don't understand why only Aisling would be told its OK to be different? ( if that's what you mean).

If you mean that the whole class is bring told its OK to be different then surely that is age appropriate education on gender expression?

Throw up a poll there Matlock

 

[PROCNA2018]

I genuinely dont know what meant by it. That's why I keep questioning it.

Trans children will exist whether other kids are educated about them or not. So the choices are that either Siobhan learns ( in an age appropriate way) about gender so she can understand if her friend does transition or Siobhan doesn't learn about it and has to try and figure it out for herself when her friend transitions. It also ( and maybe I'm picking you up wrong on this) seems based on thd idea they if children are educated on trans issues then they will mistakenly identify as trans. If you do think that, can I ask why?

Why do you consider explaining gender expression to kids " forcing" trans concepts on them?

To me, that all seems based on a notion that somehow this isn't something that children should be exposed to because its complex, but the reality is we explain complex things to kids all the time. Death, war, galaxy formation. Those are things I've spoken to my kids about within the last month. Explaining that some people doing feel like the gender they were given at birth matches how they feel is much easier than explaining that Pluto isn't a planet anymore!

You have taken me up wrong.
I'm not against it because it might make children identify as trans. I'm against it because i do not believe a child of primary age can comprehend it in a manner that would do anything other than further confuse a time when they are supposed to be free from anything but trying to have fun, friends, birthday parties etc.

Why do I consider explaining gender expression to kids forcing trans concepts on them? Because it is unnecessary and inappropriate for their age and the only way it can happen is of it is introduced into the curriculum by a department of education in which case as I said it becomes non-optional. Something which is non-optional coming into primary schools where it doesn't belong is forcing the education of concepts that don't belong in primary schools into primary schools. In that way a child has no option other than as I said for their parents to pull them out which is creating a difference that does not exist between them and their classmates.

In thready's example, in my opinion, we need to support kids who as I said in my original post to this thread can identify as being in the wrong body at a relatively young age that their feeling of difference is ok and something not yo be worried about or to endure abuse or bullying from. As I said in other threads as that moves into 12 to 16 those supports should be enhanced to provide additional understanding of their feelings and their prospective journey as adults into gender reassignment.

My point being primary school children are not capable of comprehending properly the ideas of gender and trans and shouldn't have to be made to try.

 

[PROCNA2018]

Why only for a prospective Aisling though? Surely Aisling's classmates should be made aware of her circumstance and helped to understand it.

On a side note, imagine the outrage in the Burkes of Galway household today.

I think Aislings classmates at their age would through the same specially designed package understand difference, tolerance for difference and acceptance without having to understand how a boy might consider themselves a girl properly with all the ramifications like you and I do, but even adults can't wrap their heads around in some cases.

 

[PussyinBoots]

Thought this was going to be about toilet graffiti.
I remember someone wrote in Q+3 jacks in UCC:
"Gary Glitter.
Babysitter.
Does your kids
Up the sh***er"