The Official Athletics Thread

[El Guapo]

Yup.

Tops her pb by 3.5 at 30?!

I hate to rain on the parade but if it were a non Irish runner we'd all be calling goofballs.

Nah. it's the spikes.

Don't get me wrong..history is instructive. It's always a possibility but in this case her performance is within what is now normal for this event.

The spikes are worth 2-4 seconds a race in the 1500m. New Balance have clearly closed the gap on Nike. With Whiteman, McLoughlan, Garcia, Mageean all going well.

Irish athletes are seldom in evening sessions in rabbited races and they had the wave lights. Getting into Diamond leagues is part performance part who your agent is. She probably isnt there without Euro Silver.

She didnt solo it. There was a pack ahead of her so she just kept moving up.

Shes had a great season going 1:58 in the 800m

Yeah. Maybe PEDs. Only she knows that. But i think its the shoes and an athlete in her prime

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Respectfully I think that's extremely wishful thinking Guapo m8.

 

[El Guapo]

Respectfully I think that's extremely wishful thinking Guapo m8.

I think the the effect of the spikes is under appreciated by the casual sports fan. It is 100% technological doping and the horse has bolted so long ago its been taken into the chewing gum factory for a brave new future.

The spikes are only around since Tokyo. And then only for dragon flys the Nike spike. The benchmark is no longer what we're used to in all events. It's really only this year the others have caught up. Adidas seem to have the edge currently.

The effect is twofold one is the 2-4 seconds you see on the track. The second is quicker recovery during training. Double threshold days is the trendy session for the pros. Not possible without juice previously. But with a pair of Alpha Flys no problem. Recommended those sessions over in 'training run times' and watch the injuries mount up in less than a month.

Doping has moved on. Its you can buy 4% down in John Buckleys for €300 and nail that park run in ballincollig

 

[Carmona]

Guapo, you obviously know quite a bit about athletics, no doubting that from your posts here the last 12 months or so. Whether the shoes bring such an advantage I'm not 100% convinced. But here's the thing, a study wouldn't be that difficult. Heck, we could nearly do one ourselves!!

If you could look at the times of 20 athletes with shoe/spike A, 20 with spike B and 20 with spike C and track their improvements over the last few years since they got the new footwear, then you'd have a good idea of what they bring to the table. You'd probably have an outlier or two who don't see any benefit but you'd also get a decent pattern I reckon. 3.5 seconds for 1500 at that age still seems, eh,........ suspicious?

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Fast track, better shoes, peaking etc all contribute to better times, but usually by fractions rather than chunks.

First time sub 4, but to go that far under sub 4 does unfortunately raise questions.

 

[El Guapo]

Fast track, better shoes, peaking etc all contribute to better times, but usually by fractions rather than chunks.

First time sub 4, but to go that far under sub 4 does unfortunately raise questions.

Ye may well be right. I'm about as cynical as it comes when it comes to these kind of things.

I wouldn't be surprised or even disappointed if Mageean was popped. I would enjoy the stories of burritos and parasites and cymeric twins.

But the shoes aren't a marginal gain. They're having almost as big an impact on the sport as EPO in the 90s and 00s.

This is from last year

Super spikes are causing a seismic shift – so why won't athletes admit it? | Sean Ingle

Records are being smashed but the runners involved are reluctant to admit the difference the new technology is making

www.theguardian.com

The studies Carmona is asking for are ongoing. But we need to reappraise the standard for the track just like we did on the roads.

The grey lines with doping nowadays are such that you need to account for the peripherals

Mageean trains in manchester and st moritz. She is at the BMC and continental tour events all year. She doesn't disappear for camps. Her coach's (Kiernan then Steve Vernon now Clitheroe) have good records.

Its only her 3rd DL this year. Paris was 35 degrees. Rabat is the season opener.

she was rabbited to 1200m

This is not an 'out of this world' improvement.

You may all be right. But i think the spikes is the difference here

 

[BlackpoolTerrier]

1. This is the first injury and disruption-free season she’s had in a long time. She’s had a steady run of races without interruption

2. The race was a decent dust-up with lots of open running - no mumbling and fumbling out to 1100m - there were lots of fast times

3. She’s slowly been getting Muir’s number as the season has progressed - and might have beaten her in Munich. This craic of going hard and going early has started to work for her

4. She has been a class performer for years - and was a class junior too

5. The footwear has significantly altered the performances- once the race is a banger

6. Her years of injury mean she has less miles on the clock - her 30 is not the same as being 30 when you’ve had no interruptions

7. She trains in an open environment - no “secret” camps or uncontactable trips

Those are the reasons to be happy and to celebrate the win. They are, of course, circumstantial and not absolute proof that she’s clean. But it’s rare that a doper would be able to call on those seven points.

 

[BlackpoolTerrier]

On the subject of Mageean and her natural talent - point 4 that I was making above, take a look at these videos of her medal-winning performances as a junior.

You see the same power and guts and the same characteristic move to attack anywhere from 450 to 300m out. She's been top class for a very long time - but for a variety of reasons has found it very hard to convert potential to performance.

European Juniors 2011


World Juniors 2010 - sorry, this one is very shaky but it's a podium at a World Championship so it's worth watching!

 

[El Guapo]

Point 8 I'd add is the reaction of the other athletes. There seems to be genuine affection between Muir and Mageean. Jess Hull came across as did Elise Cranny and most of the field to congratulate her.

I was in the stadium for the 2012 1500m final where MackDaddy stormed it from 600m out. He couldn't find anyone to shake his hand even. The whole stadium was apathetic to him. A huge contrast to all the other winners i saw.

The athletes always have a good idea of who is on the level.

 

[El Guapo]

Elsewhere Andrew Coscoran had a decent third in very good company in Padova. 3.35 PB for 8th all time Irish

Its 1hr 45 into this.

These end of season Italian meets have sensational fields. Yarad Nagoose won Coscoran's1500m was NCAA champ last year and made the Olympics but was injured. Cole Hocker in second was 6th in the Tokyo 1500m final.

Dalillah muhammad was there, sha'Carri, Ta'Lou, TT Terry. And the atmosphere looks significsntly worse than the cork city sports.

5th Ave mile next up for Coscoran this Sunday and I'd imagine he'll call it a season.