Go Back   Peoples Republic Of Cork Discussion Forums > Sports Forum
User Name
Password
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-02-2007, 03:46 PM
dirty-trucker dirty-trucker is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In Me Truck
Posts: 180
Default The Official Liverpool Thread

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html

Quote:
IF YOU needed evidence as to why Liverpool trail the leaders it came in the defeat at Newcastle.

A couple of errors in defence were costly, but the Reds could still have won the game if the strikers had given us a glimpse of anything approaching clinical finishing.

It was great to see Craig Bellamy find the net on his return to his old club, but he really should have scored more, and on another day could have had a hat-trick.

It's been one area that has been lacking throughout the season - a regular goalscorer.

After previous seasons of disappointment up front, it was hoped that the combinations of Dirk Kuyt, Bellamy and Peter Crouch, could provide the firepower that would launch a successful season. But each of them have done it only fleetingly.

It's an area that needs sorting for next season, and hopefully Rafa Benitez will be given the funds by new co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks to bring in top class strikers.

It's fair to say that the Reds trio have each had their moments, with some spectacular goals, but all are lacking the consistency of a 20-goal man.

I have said all along that Kuyt can be a dangerous player in and around the box, but spends too much of his time outside it.

Bellamy is very quick and can play a bit, but he has to start thinking more about his football.

He lacks the timing and it shows by the number of goals he has scored to the chances he has had. He also needs to learn to look along the line to time his runs because he is often caught offside.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:23 PM
STEVIEG STEVIEG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,861
Default

I dunno, it's a hard call

United are doing better this season without their 20 goal a year striker

Most of the Liverpool strikers have bene in fairly decent form lately it's a tough call as to you would leave out
__________________
Free mixes downloads
http://djstevieg.podomatic.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:26 PM
Roman Abramovich Roman Abramovich is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Deepest depths of frozen Siberia
Posts: 9,655
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIEG View Post
I dunno, it's a hard call

United are doing better this season without their 20 goal a year striker

Most of the Liverpool strikers have bene in fairly decent form lately it's a tough call as to you would leave out
ya but luis saha isnt exactly a 6 or 7 a season man either to be fair.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by liam2me View Post
read the whole thread then come back to me and tell me who's the 'daw' (WTF is a daw anyway?) actually don't bother.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:28 PM
STEVIEG STEVIEG is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Abramovich View Post
ya but luis saha isnt exactly a 6 or 7 a season man either to be fair.
True but he'll still do well to get the 20

The rotation won't help him that's for sure

I take your point though

anyway, back to Liverpool before there i get my balls busted
__________________
Free mixes downloads
http://djstevieg.podomatic.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:31 PM
Roman Abramovich Roman Abramovich is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Deepest depths of frozen Siberia
Posts: 9,655
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVIEG View Post
True but he'll still do well to get the 20

The rotation won't help him that's for sure

I take your point though

anyway, back to Liverpool before there i get my balls busted
liverpool have a 20 a season goals man in kuyt they just dont play to suit a 20 a goals man. they rotate too much and play too negative for what i deem 20 a season strikers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by liam2me View Post
read the whole thread then come back to me and tell me who's the 'daw' (WTF is a daw anyway?) actually don't bother.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:48 PM
Philby Philby is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 17,687
Default

This "20 a season" thing is a bit of a red herring. Ultimately if the team is scoring enough then it doesn't matter that any one player isn't dominating the scoring. If anything it's best to spread the risk by not relying on one striker who could sabotage your season if he got injured.

I think that if Dirk was to play a very selfish game he would be capable of getting quite a few goals in English football, he has proven himself quite capable in Holland (not exactly a proven barometer of class I know but it's a start). As it is Rafa has identified Dirk's link-play, hold-up play and work-rate as being key attributes he wants to take advantage of. As a result Dirk doesn't spend much time at all in the box twiddling his thumbs for crosses.

That's no bad thing 'cos the likes of Gerrard & Bellamy are more than capable of helping out on that front when required.

Regarding striker purchases I think the 3 we have (I'm discounting Fowler & Pongolle for different reasons) currently have all done well, to different degrees, but if a world-class striker became available I think it would primarilly be Crouchie's place which would be under threat unless the new striker was particularly speedy. I can't see Rafa bringing in Villa and shipping out Bellamy. Rafa loves having a diverse squad with many options, or "possibilities", as he would call them. Conversely if someone of a similar game to Eto'o were to be drafted in it'd be hard to see Bellamy having much of a future.

Either way I think Dirk's place is quite safe & there are interesting times ahead. As it happens I think we have more pressing areas of concern than up front - left back, left wing & right wing would benefit from having the cash splashed than up front.

P.S. I don't think Liverpool play too negatively for a 20-a-season striker. The current Liverpool side tend to have large amounts of posession and do create quite a few chances mainly through Alonso & Gerrard. It's a far more attacking outfit than under Houllier yet Owen managed to consistently score bagfulls under Houllier (although the team was largely built around his pace)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14-02-2007, 05:52 PM
parrotbait parrotbait is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: U know around like
Posts: 815
Default

I think its just liverpool's rubbish away form, at home they score plenty but something is mentally wrong whenever they're away. Agree that Kuyt can be that 20 goals a season man but he's been critised this season that he is dropping back too much trying to get involved with build up play and not playing as an out-and-out striker,that could be Benitez's doing. Villa has constantly been mentioned and he does look a very good player but would he provide the 20goals a season the pool need?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14-02-2007, 06:05 PM
Roman Abramovich Roman Abramovich is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Deepest depths of frozen Siberia
Posts: 9,655
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philby View Post
P.S. I don't think Liverpool play too negatively for a 20-a-season striker. The current Liverpool side tend to have large amounts of posession and do create quite a few chances mainly through Alonso & Gerrard. It's a far more attacking outfit than under Houllier yet Owen managed to consistently score bagfulls under Houllier (although the team was largely built around his pace)
98/99 - 68 goals for
99/00 - 51 goals for
00/01 - 71 goals for
01/02 - 67 goals for
02/03 - 61 goals for
03/04 - 55 goals for
04/05 - 52 goals for
05/06 - 57 goals for

i actually think liverpool play far more reserved football under benitez. hes just like jose as opposed to fergie and arsene. effect football as opposed to flair and expression.

not really like....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by liam2me View Post
read the whole thread then come back to me and tell me who's the 'daw' (WTF is a daw anyway?) actually don't bother.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Philby Philby is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 17,687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Abramovich View Post
98/99 - 68 goals for
99/00 - 51 goals for
00/01 - 71 goals for
01/02 - 67 goals for
02/03 - 61 goals for
03/04 - 55 goals for
04/05 - 52 goals for
05/06 - 57 goals for

i actually think liverpool play far more reserved football under benitez. hes just like jose as opposed to fergie and arsene. effect football as opposed to flair and expression.

not really like....
Maybe I should've said that Liverpool play more attractive footie under Rafa than attacking. The focus is more on maintaining posession, stretching the opposition and finding gaps. Houllier's was a more up-tempo style built around aggressive defence/tracking-down and hurting teams with Owen's pace & finishing ability.

Rafa's teams tend to control games more - more posesssion, more territory, less of a threat of throwing a game away. The reason why Liverpool fail to consistently kill teams off with 3-4 goals is in part due to Rafa's influence & part due to poor finishing which has dogged his team since he joined.

Take 00/01 as an example of attractiveness Vs attacking. Liverpool scored over 100 goals in all competitions that year but still, rightly or wrongly, the tag stuck that Liverpool were an unattractive team. Liverpool played some amazing stuff that year fighting on multiple fronts but hand on heart I'd have to say that the current side plays better football.

It's probably fair to say that the current side attack more, but the 00/01 era side attacked to great effect. Whether that's because it tended to hit on the break more or it had superior strikers is up for debate.

A key thing is, if Rafa's is asking Dirk to do a job for the side in a more withdrawn role, Dirk does it well & the side are successful then Rafa won't be overly worried about Dirk's goals tally & I don't think the player will be either. He has settled very well in his first season in a new country (esp considering his father's illness) & has made the spot in the team his own.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16-02-2007, 02:49 PM
Sound Sound is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Its on like donkey kong
Posts: 9,621
Default

Remembered as a weak man who let his Spice Boys run riot, the former Liverpool boss was closer to winning the Premiership than his successors.
Rob Smyth
February 15, 2007 01:59 PM
Long before Stan Collymore appeared on the reality TV show The Verdict, he had served as judge and jury on the managerial career of Roy Evans.
"One morning we were all wandering out to training when Roy [Evans] made some quip to Robbie Fowler and they started joking about. Robbie got the gaffer's head in an armlock and started rubbing his other hand across his head, frizzing up his hair. I caught myself imagining what would have happened if Gary Neville ever tried that with Alex Ferguson. Somehow, I couldn't see it."
This withering appraisal in Collymore's autobiography seemed to capture the essence of the Evans years: of the nice boy who couldn't control his Spice Boys, the shandy-weak boss who wasted an abundantly talented squad that should have dominated English football but instead are remembered for peroxide-blond mops, cream Armani suits and green-eyed envy at the tangible achievement of the other Red Army across the M62.
It might be time for a bit of revisionism. It was under Evans that Liverpool had their strongest title challenge of the last 15 years, in 1996-97 (they eventually finished fourth but had they beaten Manchester United at Anfield in mid-April they would've gone top with three games to go); it was under Evans that they played their best football of the last 15 years; and it was under Evans that the likes of Robbie Fowler, Jamie Redknapp and, arguably, Steve McManaman reached the high watermark of their careers.
Evans was certainly not without flaws - he bought some poor players, he had no idea how to handle or utilise a one-off like Collymore, and he cut his players too much slack on occasion - but he is hardly alone in that. He may not have been a born winner, but nor was he the hapless loser that some have made out.
It is revealing that, under Evans, Liverpool's average Premiership position* (3.5) was higher than under Gérard Houllier (3.6) or Rafa Benítez (4.0), yet Evans is ranked well below the two. The suspicion remains that, for all Liverpool fans' moralistic carping about the Holy Grail of a 19th league title, they are as susceptible to the cheap thrill of a Cup triumph as anyone else.
Evans won only a League Cup in 1995, with his side frequently going out in the early rounds in Europe and the FA Cup, often in humiliating circumstances. By contrast, Houllier and Benítez wowed their public with a treble and a Champions League victory which, while glorious, were entirely meaningless in terms of restoring Liverpool to the top of the pile. They are further away from that now than they were at any time under Evans: Liverpool are currently 16 points behind United, whereas the most they trailed under Evans was by 15 in 1994-95.
And at least they were good to watch back then. The quality and purity of the football played by Evans's teams was beyond reproach: he was the last of the Boot Room boys, and appropriately his side were the last to play in the pass-and-move tradition developed in the Boot Room. In 1996, their FA Cup final song was even called 'Pass & Move (The Liverpool Groove)'.
In the mid-nineties, particularly that 1995-96 season, Liverpool's Spice Boys were the best side in England to look at in every sense (Fowler the "Growler" notwithstanding). They played catwalk football. Kevin Keegan's Newcastle were thrillingly gung-ho, and Manchester United's forward play could be devastatingly decisive, but nobody was as striking, as aesthetic, as Liverpool.
They took part in the greatest game in Premiership history - the 4-3 against Newcastle in April 1996 (it rather sums up Evans's career that that match is remembered more for the losing manager, Keegan, than him). There were other memorable performances that season in particular, most notably when they blew away Blackburn and Aston Villa, defending champions and surprise packages respectively, at Anfield with devastating three-goal bursts in the first quarter of the game. And they outclassed eventual champions United home and away.
Yet when it came to the real crunch - the FA Cup final - they were locked in a full nelson by Roy Keane and deservedly beaten by Eric Cantona's fairytale late winner. It summed up Evans's Liverpool: they were consistent only in their inconsistency. That rout of Blackburn followed defeat away to 10-man Wimbledon. The 4-3 over Newcastle, which breathed new life into their title challenge, was followed by a miserable 1-0 defeat at Coventry. In the winter months they smashed Manchester City 6-0 before going seven matches without a win, and then snapping back into life to stuff United and Arsenal.
The problem for Evans was that the highs were so high that they left observers bemused as to how the lows could possibly be so low. So attention turned to off-field matters. The perception was thus fostered of a group of players who had the keys to the kingdom but decided they'd prefer a VIP suite at Chinawhites. Yet if team spirit is an illusion glimpsed in the aftermath of victory, as Steve Archibald famously said, then Evans might legitimately feel that Spice Boy excess is a delusion perceived in the aftermath of defeat. Like Cool Britannia, Britpop, TFI Friday and everything else that defined that period, those who criticise with hindsight are quick to forget just how enjoyable it was at the time.
Nor does it hold that Evans's romantic beliefs led to a damaging sacrifice of defensive principles: in three of his four seasons, Liverpool conceded fewer goals than the champions. Maybe the reality is that, as players, they just weren't that good; that Evans overachieved with the squad at his disposal. Whereas United, the dominant force, had Ryan Giggs and Keane in their prime, as well as a nascent David Beckham, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville and a renascent Cantona, Liverpool had only Fowler approaching the mythical world-class status.
Most of the other main attacking forces played better under Evans than before or since. Fowler was truly magnificent. Redknapp has never passed as aggressively or purposefully. McManaman, one of nature's uncomplaining lieutenants, was turned into the side's general. Collymore, though not as he good as he was at Nottingham Forest, never reached the heights of 95-96 again. It might be coincidence (certainly the cruciate injury that Fowler suffered in 1998, towards the end of Evans' reign, had a damaging effect on his career). Or it might be that Evans' gregarious methods - for richer or poorer - empowered some free spirits to play with a verve and joie de vivre that other managers could not locate.
Either way, his reign certainly wasn't all bad. Where his reputation is concerned, it might be time for the football cognoscenti to order a retrial
__________________
Roman Abramovich- Messi is getting world class put next to his name.The guy is a talented park.If he becomes world player of the year ill eat my jocks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump










All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All forum comments are the sole responsibility and property of forum users. PeoplesRepublicOfCork.com and its sponsors disclaim all liability for content posted by users of the forum. PeoplesRepublicOfCork.com and its sponsors do not necessarily share the views expressed in this forum. Use the report post system to have comments considered for edit or deletion. All users are IP logged. Website hosted by Hostrocket USA.