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  #641  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:10 PM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5004731/

Women who received an abortion had similar or lower levels of depression and anxiety than women denied an abortion. Our findings do not support the notion that abortion is a cause of mental health problems.


Point being there is load of different reports/claims/studies/surveys pertaining to abortion, pregnancy and mental illness. None of which can claim to be right when they are all are odds with each others findings.
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  #642  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Flirty Flossie View Post
That makes for disturbing reading. The abortion industry will try to bury that paper.
Why bury it when it can debunked? As I said, none of these can claim to be definitive of mental illness included the ones posted by myself.

It's just a pity people can't debate this subject with actual proven facts not relying on studies which are always a sample.
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  #643  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:19 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicGrinder View Post
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5004731/

Women who received an abortion had similar or lower levels of depression and anxiety than women denied an abortion. Our findings do not support the notion that abortion is a cause of mental health problems.


Point being there is load of different reports/claims/studies/surveys pertaining to abortion, pregnancy and mental illness. None of which can claim to be right when they are all are odds with each others findings.
You are right that a lot of scientific reports have been published with conflicting results on the mental health aspect of abortion. The Coleman paper published in the British Journal of Psyciatrity used a ample comprised 22 such studies, 36 measures of effect and 877 181 participants (163 831 experienced an abortion) making it the biggest such study ever conducted and its conclusions were quiet clear. I am sure you will try to debunk this scientific study as its results do not suit your agenda.

You also tried to debunk my statement that GPs would not be qualified to perform surgical abortions. You apparently googled the abortion procedures from an Abortion Provider who soothing stated that a surgical abortion was a simple procedure. (they would wouldnt they? ) And hey presto you had a fact with which to do some debunking. However Mattie quickly blew that theory out of the water. Google is fine but a little scientific or medical knowledge might help in deciphering and interpreting all the scientific information out there.
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  #644  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
You are right that a lot of scientific reports have been published with conflicting results on the mental health aspect of abortion.
I know, that is what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
You also tried to debunk my statement that GPs would not be qualified to perform surgical abortions. You apparently googled the abortion procedures from an Abortion Provider who soothing stated that a surgical abortion was a simple procedure. (they would wouldnt they? ) And hey presto you had a fact with which to do some debunking. However Mattie quickly blew that theory out of the water. Google is fine but a little scientific or medical knowledge might help in deciphering and interpreting all the scientific information out there.
You might link that please?
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  #645  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:19 AM
Flirty Flossie Flirty Flossie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicGrinder View Post
Why bury it when it can debunked? As I said, none of these can claim to be definitive of mental illness included the ones posted by myself.

It's just a pity people can't debate this subject with actual proven facts not relying on studies which are always a sample.
Debunk?? here are all the facts and reports used in that study --start googling

1 Bradshaw, Z, Slade, P. The effects of induced abortion on emotional experiences and relationships: a critical review of the literature. Clin Psychol Rev 2003; 23: 929–58. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
2 Coleman, PK. Induced abortion and increased risk of substance use: a review of the evidence. Curr Women's Health Rev 2005; 1: 21–34. CrossRef | Google Scholar
3 Coleman, PK, Reardon, DC, Strahan, TS, Cougle, JR. The psychology of abortion: a review and suggestions for future research. Psychol Health 2005; 20: 237–71. CrossRef | Google Scholar
4 Thorp, J, Hartman, K, Shadigan, E. Long-term physical and psychological health consequences of induced abortion: review of the evidence. Obstet Gynecol Surv 2003; 58: 67–79. CrossRef | Google Scholar
5 American Psychological Association Task Force on Mental Health and Abortion. Report of the American Psychological Association Task Force on Mental Health and Abortion. APA, 2008. Google Scholar | PubMed
6 Charles, VE, Polis, CB, Sridhara, SK, Blum, RW. Abortion and long-term mental health outcomes: a systematic review of the evidence. Contraception 2008;78: 436–50. CrossRef | Google Scholar
7 Robinson, GE, Stotland, NL, Russo, NF, Lang, JA, Occhiogrosso, M. Is there an ‘abortion trauma syndrome’? Critiquing the evidence. Harv Rev Psychiatry 2009; 17: 268–90. CrossRef | Google Scholar
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11 Henshaw, R, Naji, S, Russell, I, Templeton, A. Psychological responses following medical abortion (using mifepristone and gemeprost) and surgical vacuum aspiration: a patient-centered, partially randomized prospective study. Acta Obstet Gynec Scand 1994; 73: 812–8. CrossRef | Google Scholar
12 Lauzon, P, Roger-Achim, D, Achim, A, Boyer, R. Emotional distress among couples involved in first trimester abortions. Can Fam Physician 2000; 46: 2033–40. Google Scholar
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14 Major, B, Cozzarelli, C, Cooper, ML, Zubek, J, Richards, C, Wilhite, M, et al. Psychological responses of women after first trimester abortion. Arch Gen Psychiatry 2000; 57: 777–84. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
15 Major, B, Cozzarelli, C, Sciacchitano, AM, Cooper, ML, Testa, M, Mueller, PM. Perceived social support, self-efficacy, and adjustment to abortion. J Pers Soc Psychol 1990; 59: 186–97. CrossRef | Google Scholar
16 Miller, WB. An empirical study of the psychological antecedents and consequences of induced abortion. J Soc Issues 1992; 48: 67–93. CrossRef | Google Scholar
17 Miller, WB, Pasta, DJ, Dean, CL. Testing a model of the psychological consequences of abortion. In The New Civil War: The Psychology, Culture, and Politics of Abortion (eds Beckman, LJ, Harvey, SM): pp. 235–67. American Psychological Association, 1998. Google Scholar
18 Reardon, DC, Coleman, PK. Relative treatment rates for sleep disorders following abortion and childbirth: a prospective record-based study. Sleep 2006; 29: 105–6. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
19 Slade, P, Heke, S, Fletcher, J, Stewart, PA. Comparison of medical and surgical methods of termination of pregnancy: choice, psychological consequences, and satisfaction with care. Br J Obstet Gynaecol 1998; 105: 1288–95. CrossRef | Google Scholar
20 Coleman, PK, Coyle, CT, Shuping, M, Rue, VM. Induced abortion and anxiety, mood, and substance abuse disorders: isolating the effects of abortion in the National Comorbidity Survey. J Psychiatr Res 2009; 43: 770–6. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
21 Dingle, K, Alati, R, Clavarino, A, Najman, JM, Williams, GM. Pregnancy loss and psychiatric disorders in young women: an Australian birth cohort study. Br J Psychiatry 2008; 193: 455–60. CrossRef | Google Scholar
22 Fergusson, DM, Horwood, LJ, Boden, JM. Abortion and mental health disorders: evidence from a 30-year longitudinal study. Br J Psychiatry 2008; 193: 444–51. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
23 Fergusson, DM, Horwood, LJ, Ridder, EM. Abortion in young women and subsequent mental health. J Child Psychol Psychiatry 2006; 47: 16–24. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
24 Pedersen, W. Childbirth, abortion and subsequent substance use in young women: a population-based longitudinal study. Addiction 2007; 102: 1971–8. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
25 Lipsey, MW. Identifying interesting variables and analysis opportunities. In The Handbook of Research Synthesis and Meta-Analysis, 2nd edn (eds Cooper, H, Hedges, LV, Valentine, JC): 147–58. Russell Sage Foundation, 2009. Google Scholar
26 Coleman, PK, Reardon, DC, Cougle, J. Substance use among pregnant women in the context of previous reproductive loss and desire for current pregnancy. Br J Health Psychol 2005; 10: 255–68. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
27 Steinberg, JR, Russo, NF. Abortion and anxiety: what's the relationship? Soc Sci Med 2008; 67: 238–52. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
28 Coleman, PK, Maxey, DC, Spence, M, Nixon, C. The choice to abort among mothers living under ecologically deprived conditions: predictors and consequences. Int J Ment Health Addiction 2009; 7: 405–22. Google Scholar
29 Coleman, PK, Reardon, DC, Rue, V, Cougle, J. History of induced abortion in relation to substance use during subsequent pregnancies carried to term. Am J Obstet Gynecol 2002; 187: 1673–8. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
30 Coleman, PK, Reardon, DC, Rue, V, Cougle, J. State-funded abortions vs. deliveries: a comparison of outpatient mental health claims over four years. Am J Orthopsychiatry 2002; 72: 141–52. CrossRef | Google Scholar
31 Cougle, J, Reardon, DC, Coleman, PK. Depression associated with abortion and childbirth: a long-term analysis of the NLSY cohort. Med Sci Monit 2003; 9: CR105–12. Google Scholar | PubMed
32 Cougle, J, Reardon, DC, Coleman, PK, Rue, VM. Generalized anxiety associated with unintended pregnancy: a cohort study of the 1995 National Survey of Family Growth. J Anxiety Disord 2005; 19: 137–42. CrossRef | Google Scholar
33 Gilchrist, AC, Hannaford, PC, Frank, P, Kay, CR. Termination of pregnancy and psychiatric morbidity. Br J Psychiatry 1995; 167: 243–8. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
34 Gissler, M, Hemminki, E, Lonnqvist, J. Suicides after pregnancy in Finland, 1987–94: register linkage study. BMJ 1996; 313: 1431–4. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
35 Pedersen, W. Abortion and depression: a population-based longitudinal study of young women. Scand J Public Health 2008; 36: 424–8. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
36 Reardon, DC, Cougle, J. Depression and unintended pregnancy in the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth: a cohort study. BMJ 2002; 324: 151–2. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
37 Reardon, DC, Cougle, J, Ney, PG, Scheuren, F, Coleman, PK, Strahan, TW. Deaths associated with delivery and abortion among California Medicaid patients: a record linkage study. South Med J 2002; 95: 834–41. Google Scholar
38 Reardon, DC, Cougle, J, Rue, VM, Shuping, M, Coleman, PK, Ney, PG. Psychiatric admissions of low-income women following abortion and childbirth. CMAJ 2003; 168: 1253–6. Google Scholar | PubMed
39 Reardon, DC, Coleman, PK, Cougle, J. Substance use associated with prior history of abortion and unintended birth: a national cross sectional cohort study. Am J Drug Alcohol Abuse 2004; 26: 369–83. Google Scholar
40 Rees, DI, Sabia, JJ. The relationship between abortion and depression: new evidence from the Fragile Families and Child Wellbeing Study. Med Sci Monit 2007; 13: 430–6. Google Scholar | PubMed
41 Schmiege, S, Russo, NF. Depression and unwanted first pregnancy: longitudinal cohort study. BMJ 2005; 331: 1303. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
42 Taft, AJ, Watson, LF. Depression and termination of pregnancy (induced abortion) in a national cohort of young Australian women: the confounding effect of women's experience of violence. BMC Public Health 2008; 8: 75. CrossRef | Google Scholar
43 Borenstein, M, Hedges, LV, Higgins, JPT, Rothstein, HR. Introduction to Meta- Analysis. Wiley, 2009. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
44 Appleby, L. Suicide during pregnancy and in the first postnatal year. BMJ 1991; 302: 137–40. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
45 Kleiner, GJ, Greston, WM, (eds). Suicide in Pregnancy. John Wright, 1984. Google Scholar
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  #646  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:21 AM
Flirty Flossie Flirty Flossie is offline
 
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And some more light reading!

47 Schiff, MA, Grossman, DC. Adverse perinatal outcomes and risk of postpartum suicide attempt in Washington State, 1987–2001. Pediatrics 2006; 118: e669–75. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
48 Bailey, PE, Bruno, ZV, Bezerra, MF, Queiroz, J, Oliveira, CM, Chen-Mok, M. Adolescent pregnancy 1 year later: the effects of abortion vs. motherhood in Northeast Brazil. J Adolesc Health 2001; 29: 223–32. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
49 Fergusson, DM, Boden, JM, Horwood, LJ. Abortion among young women and subsequent life outcomes. Perspect Sex Reprod Health 2007; 39: 6–12. CrossRef | Google Scholar | PubMed
50 Fergusson, DM. Abortion and mental health. Psychiatr Bull 2008; 32: 321–4. CrossRef | Google Scholar
51 Mota, NP, Burnett, M, Sareen, J. Associations between abortion, mental disorders, and suicidal behaviour in a nationally representative sample. Can J Psychiatry 2010; 55: 239–47. CrossRef | Google Scholar
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  #647  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:33 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is offline
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The supreme court has pronounced that the only right relating to an unborn child enshrined in our Constitution is the right to life.

The present government is intent on removing that right to life and replacing it in the constitution with Governmental powers to regulate the taking of that life.
The proposed legislation will be more liberal than that of Britian which presently facilitates the aborting of 1 in 5 of prenatal children.

The electorate is effectively being given Hobsons choice ie retain the 8th or usher in the most liberal abortion regime in Europe.

When this was pointed to Harris on RTE today he said that the electorate should not conflate removing the 8th with abortion on demand. WTF? Does he think people are that stupid?
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  #648  
Old 08-03-2018, 08:50 PM
Flirty Flossie Flirty Flossie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicGrinder View Post
Why bury it when it can debunked? .


Need some help there Topicy with the debunking?
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  #649  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:01 PM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flirty Flossie View Post


Need some help there Topicy with the debunking?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...told-1.3284739
Unwanted pregnancies linked to mental health risk, committee told
UK research finds mental health risks same after termination as after giving birth

Medical research has shown unwanted pregnancies are associated with an increased risk of mental health problems, the Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment has heard.
Prof Anthony McCarthy, consultant psychiatrist at the National Maternity Hospital, said there was no significant research carried out in Ireland in the area of mental health outcomes after induced abortion and that other international work may not be applicable to this country.
However, he said, the “best overall publication” was by the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges in the UK, which conducted a systematic review of mental health outcomes among women who had abortions .
This found unwanted pregnancies were associated with increased risks of mental health issues, and that rates of mental health problems in unwanted pregnancies were the same after termination and after giving birth.
It also found, according to Prof McCarthy, that women pressurised into having a termination, and women exposed to strongly negative attitudes towards abortion, were likely to have “worse outcomes”.
Individual situation
“However, for any and every woman who might seek mental health advice in this situation, it will be the specifics of her individual situation, and her distress and her history, and her personal beliefs and wishes, and often her partner’s too, which must be listened to and understood,” he said.
“The research evidence is helpful in general, but never specific to any individual life situation.”
Prof McCarthy has worked as a consultant perinatal psychiatrist for 21 years, with more than 500 women attending the clinic each year. He said most studies in this area suffer from limitations, including researcher bias and inappropriate control groups.
The patients he sees include those who have suffered a miscarriage, had a stillbirth or a baby diagnosed with a significant abnormality.
He said terminations can sometimes be potentially damaging for a patient, for example in the case of a woman suffering from severe depression.

“But, for another, she is clear that she cannot continue the pregnancy, she cannot cope and continuing the pregnancy would destroy her life. She is not mentally unwell but may be terrified of becoming unwell,” he said.



It was posted already, unlike yourself I don't need to resort to lies and mistruths in order to debate.
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  #650  
Old 09-03-2018, 01:03 PM
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Underpinning principles
The 21 principles or provisions, which would underpin the proposed legislation, are:

- Terminations to be provided on the grounds of risk to health, which includes the risk to life, of pregnant women;

- No distinction will be made between physical and mental health;

- Two doctors will be required to assess the appropriateness of a termination on the grounds of a risk to health;

- One medical practitioner can assess to terminate when there is an emergency risk to health;

- In the cases of a foetal condition which is likely to result in death before or shortly after birth, a termination can be provided;

- Two doctors will be required to assess the appropriateness of a termination in such cases (of fatal foetal abnormality);

- Terminations can be provided up to 12 weeks “without specific indication”;

- A time period will be required to elapse between the initial assessment by a medical practitioner and the termination of a pregnancy being carried out;

- Gestational limits will not apply in cases of a foetal condition or on grounds of risk to health;

- A medical practitioner is defined as anyone certified as an appropriate medical practitioner on the medical register;

- Termination of pregnancy should be certified by a medical practitioner;

- Termination of pregnancy should be notified to the Minister for Health by the appropriate medical practitioner;

- A formal review process can occur for a woman (to review a decision of her doctor) in certain defined circumstances;

- Conscientious objection will be allowed for;

- Nothing in legislation will interfere with a woman’s right to travel or seek information;

- The offence for the destruction of the unborn outside the law will remain;

- A woman who procures or seeks an abortion would not be guilty of an offence;

- An annual report will be provided;

- The Minister for Health would be provided with details of all appeals or reviews carried out;

- Consent must be given for an abortion; and

- The Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act will be repealed.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-sets-out-21-clauses-to-regulate-abortion-1.3420425
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