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  #371  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:42 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is online now
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Originally Posted by applehunter View Post
Irish Examiner are getting criticized with that front page today.

If it wasn't for twitter & letters pages I think the media would be even worse than they are.

5th Estate?
Surprised? all the media are pushing the abortion agenda--would they give the stats that I posted in my previous post? hell no as it would damage the cause!
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  #372  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:18 PM
Killyoursons Killyoursons is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SoundMan View Post
There's plenty of crimes are accepted as having been committed without any perpetrator being identified, never mind brought before the courts. After investigation the senior garda at a station could come to the conclusion, on the balance of probability whether or not, a woman who claimed she was raped in sworn testimony, was likely to have actually been raped. It's not something most women would likely claim if it hadn't happened I think.
That`s true, but in most of those cases there will be some evidence other than the word of the (alleged) victim. A common problem with many cases of rape or sexual assault is that there is little or no evidence other than the testimony of the people involved. The problem is precisely how a senior garda could establish on the balance of probability that a rape had occurred, given that very often the only evidence presented would be the testimony of the woman. In practice, I think that unless the woman is very obviously lying, the guard will have to take her word for it - particularly in cases where the woman does not or cannot name the attacker.

As for your suggestion that most women would not falsely claim to have been raped, you may be right. But how likely do you think it is that a woman would falsely claim that continuing a pregnancy would pose a grave permanent injury to her mental health? Because that this the ground under which the majority of abortions in the UK are granted, and it is reasonable to be sceptical that all of these women really would suffer grave permanent injuries if they did not terminate their pregnancies.
Basically, many people, women and men, are quite capable of lying if they feel that is what they need to do. An regime which allows abortion only on limited grounds creates an incentive for them to do exactly this.
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  #373  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:39 PM
CaptainSensible CaptainSensible is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Killyoursons View Post
That`s true, but in most of those cases there will be some evidence other than the word of the (alleged) victim. A common problem with many cases of rape or sexual assault is that there is little or no evidence other than the testimony of the people involved. The problem is precisely how a senior garda could establish on the balance of probability that a rape had occurred, given that very often the only evidence presented would be the testimony of the woman. In practice, I think that unless the woman is very obviously lying, the guard will have to take her word for it - particularly in cases where the woman does not or cannot name the attacker.

As for your suggestion that most women would not falsely claim to have been raped, you may be right. But how likely do you think it is that a woman would falsely claim that continuing a pregnancy would pose a grave permanent injury to her mental health? Because that this the ground under which the majority of abortions in the UK are granted, and it is reasonable to be sceptical that all of these women really would suffer grave permanent injuries if they did not terminate their pregnancies.
Basically, many people, women and men, are quite capable of lying if they feel that is what they need to do. An regime which allows abortion only on limited grounds creates an incentive for them to do exactly this.
The solution seems quite obvious. In general a woman won't know she is pregnant for a number of weeks whereas she will know immediately if she has been raped. Therefore if the rape is reported before she finds out she is pregnant i.e immediately, she should be allowed go ahead with the abortion. I know there is a problem with unreported rapes but this kind of law would encourage more women to come forward if they were raped. Conversely it is unlikely a woman would report a false rape on the off chance she may have become pregnant.
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  #374  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:10 PM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is online now
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There appears to be a Mainstream Media campaign to promote the "normalistion of abortion" to the Irish,as just another Medical treatment and no big deal.
Abortion has been normalised in the UK to the extent that Dr Ashley Regan, president of the British College of Obstreticians and Gyneocologists recently said that abortion was just another medical treatment like removing a bunion.

The mind boggles at the comparison of killing an unborn child with the removal of a bunion
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  #375  
Old 09-02-2018, 04:10 PM
Killyoursons Killyoursons is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CaptainSensible View Post
The solution seems quite obvious. In general a woman won't know she is pregnant for a number of weeks whereas she will know immediately if she has been raped. Therefore if the rape is reported before she finds out she is pregnant i.e immediately, she should be allowed go ahead with the abortion. I know there is a problem with unreported rapes but this kind of law would encourage more women to come forward if they were raped. Conversely it is unlikely a woman would report a false rape on the off chance she may have become pregnant.
Interesting suggestion, Captain-y, thanks.

Two issues with it. First, as you acknowledge there are well-known issues with women reporting rapes to the gardai. The reasons those women have for not reporting rapes won`t change, so in all likelihood you`ll still have a number of women who were raped, didn`t report it for whatever reasons, and then (if I understand your suggestion correctly) would not be allowed to have an abortion if they request one, because they did not report it immediately.
If, on the other hand, a woman is allowed to apply for an abortion on the grounds of rape even if she did not immediately report it, then the original problem will remain.

Second, you say that it`s unlikely a woman would falsely report a rape on the chance that she might become pregnant - but I`d say the chances of that happening would very much depend on the exact circumstances, e.g., was any protection used, how quickly she was able to access emergency contraception, etc.
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  #376  
Old 10-02-2018, 01:41 AM
an liathroid beag an liathroid beag is online now
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Fake Pro Abortion Poll on The Examiner
Faced with the realisation that on Thursday The Examiner placed a bogus opinion poll on the front page, it might be better for the paper and the two journalists who wrote the story to lie low and let this blow over, rather than to endure the humiliation of issuing a formal retraction.

The referendum campaign has not yet begun, and already we are beginning witness the complete abandonment of any pretense of objectivity within our national media, including formerly respectable newspapers. They will likely plumb further depths in the coming months.

On this point, it is worth noting that the same article on the Irish Examiner’s website also includes a claim that a “large Pro-Life Campaign poster saying abortion is akin to child abuse” had been placed outside Leinster House.

The Pro-Life Campaign say that the poster does not belong to them, and that it is considering their legal options in relation to this claim.

Also, and in an entirely unrelated development, the Irish Examiner published another article yesterday, entitled ‘Public trust in traditional journalism on the rise as fears of ‘fake news’ increase.’

Irony is lost on these people, as is integrity too.
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  #377  
Old 10-02-2018, 02:29 PM
Flirty Flossie Flirty Flossie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
Billy Kelleher on the Radio yesterday furiously trying to rubbish the notion that that his abortion on demand up to 12 weeks will open the floodgates. Kelleher who claims to be well versed in abortion must be aware that 90% of abortions are carried out in the first 12 weeks.
In Britain restricted abortion (To the shock of David Steel) resulted in i in 5 pregnancies being aborted. Now Kelleher is trying to tell us that unrerstricted abortions in the period where 90% of abortions are performed will not open the floodgates. Kelleher must think we are all idiots. ( Irelands abortion rate is 1/19 at present UK 1/5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
Billy is quiet entitled to his pro abortion on demand views but if he uses his public position to push his abortion on demand agenda he can expect opposition--thats democracy

Some figures from Britian that would suggest his protestations that abortion on demand will not open the floodgates are extremely dubious



Year No Abortions % Abortions
1968 27,200 2.59%
1978 121,484 17.8%
1988 181,075 19.76%
1998 192,358 21.81%
2008 210,100 21.39%

In the past decade the annual figures have been C 200,000 abortions per annum ie 20% of pregnancies are aborted. After the "normalisation" of abortion by the introduction of the 1967 abortion Act the Brits got a 700% increase in abortions in a few years, and this achieved by restrictive legislation. We currently have approx 25% of the Brit abortion rate and Kelleher is trying to tell us that by introducing unrestricted abortion that the floodgates will not be opened
Those figures rubbish both Kellehers claim to not opening the floodgates and Leos claim that abortion will be rare under the new proposed abortion regime .
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  #378  
Old 10-02-2018, 02:44 PM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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What is the floodgate definition? 10, 20 ,30 a day, more?

The number of Irish women giving addresses in UK for treatment has consistently dropped since 2002 (6522) to half that number in 2016 (3265) which is roughly the same number as 1980
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  #379  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:11 AM
mawhosmeda mawhosmeda is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by an liathroid beag View Post
Fake Pro Abortion Poll on The Examiner
Faced with the realisation that on Thursday The Examiner placed a bogus opinion poll on the front page, it might be better for the paper and the two journalists who wrote the story to lie low and let this blow over, rather than to endure the humiliation of issuing a formal retraction.

The referendum campaign has not yet begun, and already we are beginning witness the complete abandonment of any pretense of objectivity within our national media, including formerly respectable newspapers. They will likely plumb further depths in the coming months.

On this point, it is worth noting that the same article on the Irish Examiner’s website also includes a claim that a “large Pro-Life Campaign poster saying abortion is akin to child abuse” had been placed outside Leinster House.

The Pro-Life Campaign say that the poster does not belong to them, and that it is considering their legal options in relation to this claim.

Also, and in an entirely unrelated development, the Irish Examiner published another article yesterday, entitled ‘Public trust in traditional journalism on the rise as fears of ‘fake news’ increase.’

Irony is lost on these people, as is integrity too.
Who buys that rag anymore? Never see young people reading it--catering to a dying demography
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  #380  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:53 AM
TopicGrinder TopicGrinder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawhosmeda View Post
Who buys that rag anymore? Never see young people reading it--catering to a dying demography
A dying voting demographic
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