I've changed my mind about everyone paying more tax in proportion to what they earn and therefore afford. (didn't realise I had been living in a communist state all along).
The cheese argument made my mind up...
DO NOT TAX THE LOWER EARNERS ANYMORE if they can only afford the cheapest type of cheese regardless of origin.
TAX THE HIGHER EARNERS (the rich) who can afford the choice of the most expensive cheeses and other associated luxury goods.
I'd prefer to see some people with easy singles and others with Charleville rather than some with nothing in their sandwiches while a few gorge on a Brie and Milleens cheeseboard after desert.
The right wing argument is gone crazy... Cheese and luxury goods ffs... Let em eat cake!
Wow that went totally over your head didn't it . I give you hint my point wasn't actually about cheese . Do try to keep up .
Point of order Stacky : - you persist in describing communism and labelling it socialism . It's been pointed out to you a few times that there are socialist states that are fully democratic . Scandinavian ones have been mentioned .
But the truth doesn't really matter when you're arguing to preserve the status quo does it ?
Either way it is 2 sides if the same coin
The "socialism" of Bertie Ahern / status quo got us and the western world into this mess and it is changing anyway - it simply has to
Point of order Stacky : - you persist in describing communism and labelling it socialism . It's been pointed out to you a few times that there are socialist states that are fully democratic . Scandinavian ones have been mentioned .
But the truth doesn't really matter when you're arguing to preserve the status quo does it ?
Where are the socialist states in Scandinavia ? I can only think of social democracies there myself .
I would disagree, as you might expect, with a number of points you make. You make them in a reasonable and pleasant fashion, though, which is quite a novelty in here.
A major point, in my view, is the level of income inequality in this country - it is high for a developed country. In a culture of income inequality, there tends to be moves in the direction of increasing rather than decreasing the levels. But the wages/salaries allowed to different jobs are often quite arbitrary - for example the ratio of CEO wage to non-management employee wage has soared over the last 30 years both nationally and internationally, even though the growth rate achieved in the developed world during the recent boom did not match that of the post-war boom. You say that it is wrong to penalise people for being ambitious - it is equally wrong to treat them as meriting vast multiples of the average wage. Moving beyond that point, it is also the case that professionals in this country get paid a lot more than in comparable countries - lawyers, hospital consultants etc. There is no justification for this. So my argument is not that people should be punished for being good at their work, but rather that no worker is worth as much as the top earners presently receive.
That they should be taxed because they can afford it is neither my ideology nor my position. If the state has a huge hole in its budget then more money is required - those who can afford should be targeted, not those who are just getting by. That seems to me to be common sense. It is not a long-term solution; in my view a complete overhaul of the system - socialism - is the only viable long-term solution.
Your arguments as to the relative impacts of cuts in high and low earner incomes are interesting, but I think flawed. For a start, when I mention luxury goods I am thinking more in terms of really expensive things - cars, jeeps, jewellery etc. These things are not, for the most part, made in Ireland; furthermore, Lidl & Aldi employ more people than Keane's jewellers, and I doubt the floor staff in Keane's are paid much more (though I am happy to be corrected on that).
To look at mundane examples, far less people are using taxis now than used to. Less people are going to eat in local restaurants. Less people are buying basics in local shops. You mention locally produced cheese and so on - a fair point, but a lot of lower earners do in fact shop in Tesco, Dunne's and so on, buying Kilmeaden and Denny sausages and local ham etc. Cut their wages and they buy less or buy inferior imported produce. Cut the disposable incomes of the higher earners and they will still buy decent food - they will just forsake the new car or new rolex.
If you don't mind me saying you are applying very broad strokes to an argument that has a little bit more devil in the detail. I don't 100% disagree with everything you've wrote but you've presented your case in a very selective, inconsistent and times random manner.
TBH I don't think it's as simple to say everyone should be entitled to earn what they want , especially considering the examples of professionals you put forward. These examples are pretty unique in so far there is employment opportunities in both the private and public sectors , and sometimes both at the same time. They are also for all intents and purposes vital services of one description or another, so again these are not a typical example of your tax paying professional. So perhaps your argument that against hyper inflated wages here has some merit to be fair.
However when you apply this logic to people who make their income from areas that are a more straight forward exchange of commerce then it makes no sense at all. What about the small business owner who works all the hours he can and has worked on making his business as profitable as possible. At what stage and more importantly what right do you have to tell someone like this - 'You are making too much money'. His wealth is a product of 'Choice' . People has chosen of their own free will to purchase or avail of his product or service and they have parted with their money because they perceive the said to be of the worth he placed on it. Nobody is being forced at gun point to be a consumer. No Mr Small business owner should be able to make as much as he wants when he want's. More importantly this should be encouraged. like I said earlier a society that punishes the ambitious and rewards the lazy is deeply flawed.
To be honest when I hear people saying things like Socialism are the only viable option now in the here in the 21st century I truthfully despair. Socialism along with it's bastard offsprings Communism and Fascism belongs in the dustbin of history. It is not an unquantified untested ideology that if only it was 'implemented right' it would work. No, no, no, the last century is when that was tried and tested and the general consensus from anyone who lived through socialist eras (including wartime Britain) was that it was miserable. Problem with socialism is that it's all about ideals not reality and it's a ideology based on how it should be , not how it is.
RE your last paragraph , yes I took it to mean things like Automobiles and high end electronic goods, Jewelry etc etc . Ireland has no history of manufacturing such goods , so it's unavoidable that you have to buy imports for this , that's just the way it is. But again when these high earners buy the latest model BMW, although ultimately the money makes it's way into the Germany economy, along the way everyone from the Garage who sold it to him here and the mechanic who will service it will make some revenue from his purchase.
Wow that went totally over your head didn't it . I give you hint my point wasn't actually about cheese . Do try to keep up .
On the contrary kid. You did a great job highlighting your lack of a social conscience which is too laughable to take seriously. You are a right wing cheese sandwich without the bread.
It does boil down to the basics for some people madame Antoinette!
On the contrary kid. You did a great job highlighting your lack of a social conscience which is too laughable to take seriously. You are a right wing cheese sandwich without the bread.
It does boil down to the basics for some people madame Antoinette!
Listen calm down , tie up your dog by the piece of string you walk with it with, sit down and crack open a nice can of scrumpy . When your nice and comfortable please explain where I demonstrated a lack of social conscience .
Poor Commies they think equality should involve everyone being poor. C'mere your a little lost in all this aren't you? There is no shame in it .
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