You are thinking of the Portas review published about 6 months ago (not written by a transport professional but has some other good points). Newham have restricted the use of Stratford to 2 hours free parking to limit car dependency and congestion in the area which has worked reasonably well.
Traders frequently over-estimate the importance of parking- it has been proven that what is more important is the quality of fare on offer
Why would it be written by a transport professional? It wasn't a transport review.
No, Newham hasn't done anything of the sort, they've increased charges in public car parks from £2 for 2 hours to £3, not just in Stratford but in Upton Park where they have the massive market and East Ham for the high street there.
Parking is a very real issue. I am not a trader so am not looking at it from their point of view I'm looking at it from a consumer POV. A good example for me is going to the post office. I have to drive to get to my nearest one, but I can't park for free there, so I never use it, I go a bit further. Paid parking is a bane on society and is used by councils as a cash cow where they hire useless staff to walk the streets and issue tickets, 60% of which are wrongly issued causing a massive headache for the driver as councils rarely back down until you go to the independent adjudicator
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinky
There is something inherently wrong with someone who chooses to become a referee
No at all, you would of course be correct if that was the County Councils turf, but the good news is, its not. Good news because if it was the fucking traffic would be at a stand still just like Douglas Village. I know the City Council are another shower of wasters, leeches and general unaccountable fucking idiots, but the one thing these fuckwits have is experience in traffic control and movement of same. So without any improvement in at least twenty years we have had traffic problems in Douglas and what have the fuckwits in County Hall done? Put in parking meters, why? To raise revenue for either the wasters that are employed by this organisation or for other areas of the County, because Douglas will see Fuck All of this money.
Over all anyway it is a fucking disgrace considering the millions those bastards are collecting in rates from commerical premises in Douglas (shopping centres, pubs, restaurants etc.) that this money is not spent in Douglas. The village and some of the hinderland should be handed over to the City Council. This fact now that apparantly they have 3 traffic wardens roaming around Douglas village just proves it. Infairness would it not make more sense, even if we have to put up with this parking charge crap, that the City Council traffic wardens do this job, its only a short drive from City Hall.
My own reckoning on this is that the 3 uniformed leeches roaming around the village are from other towns in the County, because AFAIK the Councils cannot employ any more people. Just imagine the allowances and milage these pricks are claiming.
and that makes it untrue? In the UK, Middlesbrough, Wolverhampton and Wiltshire councils all realised that pay parking in town centres was killing the local economy and reduced or removed the charges.
Actually it is true, if I can find the report I will post it. I'm not saying out of town shopping centres weren't an issue raised, but parking was the main one. There is one high street in Newham that had totally died off. The council realised this and changed their pay parking area to 2 hours free parking, unfortunately it was too late, but even the council acknowledged that it was a serious issue.
Stratford doesn't have a high street to kill off. It had a smaller shopping centre with a parking complex before Westfield was built.
Pay parking is only about revenue raising for councils and is self-defeating. They would have more business tax income if people shopped in the areas in question then they would gain from pay parking. I have a massive problem with pay parking in principal
You completely misunderstand the concept of pay parking.
Pay parking should only be introduced as a mechanism to control the availibility of scarce on-street road space. You maximise on-street car parking for short stay visits, which in turn supports retail activity in the centre. Free town and city centre car parking encourages the dominance of the central area's street parking pool by workers, which actually sterilises and prohibits retail activity and vitality as cars park in valuable shopping areas frm 09.00- 17.00 with little or no benefit or spin off to the retail economy. We should not have free car parking on our shopping streets. We should not have free car parkng on Patrick Street, any of our city centre streets, main streets and town centres. It ius a ridiculous idea that has been discredited since the 1970s. This is a widely accepted and fundamental ingredient of attractive and efficient town and city centre management all over the world. Successful city/town centres ration on-street parking and promote short stay use. It makes economic and environemtnal sense. I recommend Donal Shoup's 'The High Cost of Free Parking' as an excellent textbook on this subject.
The fact that pay parking also produces a revenue for Local Authorities is a good thing. Despite the fact that is seems to raise the usual 'bloody moneygrabbing evil council' response from angry Douglas 'village' types who are foaming at the mouth about having to pay for the privelege of paying for car parking shouldnt blind us from the fact that any measure of local revenue generation that is rational and environmentally and socially acceptable is a positive thing. Usually, it is ringfenced through local agreements, and directed towards local environmental and public realm enhancements. This is all good, responsible and practical local urban management.
You completely misunderstand the concept of pay parking.
Pay parking should only be introduced as a mechanism to control the availibility of scarce on-street road space. You maximise on-street car parking for short stay visits, which in turn supports retail activity in the centre. Free town and city centre car parking encourages the dominance of the central area's street parking pool by workers, which actually sterilises and prohibits retail activity and vitality as cars park in valuable shopping areas frm 09.00- 17.00 with little or no benefit or spin off to the retail economy. We should not have free car parking on our shopping streets. We should not have free car parkng on Patrick Street, any of our city centre streets, main streets and town centres. It ius a ridiculous idea that has been discredited since the 1970s. This is a widely accepted and fundamental ingredient of attractive and efficient town and city centre management all over the world. Successful city/town centres ration on-street parking and promote short stay use. It makes economic and environemtnal sense. I recommend Donal Shoup's 'The High Cost of Free Parking' as an excellent textbook on this subject.
The fact that pay parking also produces a revenue for Local Authorities is a good thing. Despite the fact that is seems to raise the usual 'bloody moneygrabbing evil council' response from angry Douglas 'village' types who are foaming at the mouth about having to pay for the privelege of paying for car parking shouldnt blind us from the fact that any measure of local revenue generation that is rational and environmentally and socially acceptable is a positive thing. Usually, it is ringfenced through local agreements, and directed towards local environmental and public realm enhancements. This is all good, responsible and practical local urban management.
your argumnet only makes sence if there is no free parking.
ten years ago - you drove into cork city, got what you needed and left.
now i drive to mahon/blackpool and thats if i have time. otherwise its off to the internet.
your argumnet only makes sence if there is no free parking.
ten years ago - you drove into cork city, got what you needed and left.
now i drive to mahon/blackpool and thats if i have time. otherwise its off to the internet.
the world has changed. old rules dont apply.
Not true. If a city centre decides to try to compete with suburban locations by offering free parking, it is admitting failure and is doomed. In other words, it is effectively saying that all things being equal, a city centre and a suburban shopping centre have the same offer and are equally attractive. However, city centres offer much more than shopping centres and in practice, it has been proven that despite city centres being more difficult and more expensive to access and park, they are generally favoured by consumers on the basis of diversity of offer, atmosphere, range of goods and services, competition, multi-purpose shopping, non-retail offer, food and drink services, access to lesiure and recreation. In other words, all of these things more than compensate for the awkwardness and cost of parking and access. I dont know of one sucessful city centre that has free car parking - do you?
You seem to suggest that it is a bad thing that you can't drive into the Cork's main shopping street, jump out of your car exaclty where you need to, buy an item, drive to the next shop and so on. i think it is a good thing that you cant do that. IN fact, Cork city centre is thriving, bucking the trend in ireland in fact. Much of that is associated with the quality of the city centre, the pedestrian environment, the atmosphere, the character, the fact that it is not a shopping centre. Your lamenting of the good old days were in fact the bad old days, when cork city centre was dying, literally. Take a walk down Pana when you have the time, any day or evening this week and you will see not a dying, empty city centre, but a sucessful, vibrant , buy and attractive place. Your nostalgia about 10 years ago sounds like a provincial town of 4,000 people in the Midlands in 1987, not a grown up modern urban centre.
You are correct in that old rules dont an dwont apply, especially with internet shopping and how it will reshape retail and town and city centres.
Not true. If a city centre decides to try to compete with suburban locations by offering free parking, it is admitting failure and is doomed. In other words, it is effectively saying that all things being equal, a city centre and a suburban shopping centre have the same offer and are equally attractive. However, city centres offer much more than shopping centres and in practice, it has been proven that despite city centres being more difficult and more expensive to access and park, they are generally favoured by consumers on the basis of diversity of offer, atmosphere, range of goods and services, competition, multi-purpose shopping, non-retail offer, food and drink services, access to lesiure and recreation. In other words, all of these things more than compensate for the awkwardness and cost of parking and access. I dont know of one sucessful city centre that has free car parking - do you?
You seem to suggest that it is a bad thing that you can't drive into the Cork's main shopping street, jump out of your car exaclty where you need to, buy an item, drive to the next shop and so on. i think it is a good thing that you cant do that. IN fact, Cork city centre is thriving, bucking the trend in ireland in fact. Much of that is associated with the quality of the city centre, the pedestrian environment, the atmosphere, the character, the fact that it is not a shopping centre. Your lamenting of the good old days were in fact the bad old days, when cork city centre was dying, literally. Take a walk down Pana when you have the time, any day or evening this week and you will see not a dying, empty city centre, but a sucessful, vibrant , buy and attractive place. Your nostalgia about 10 years ago sounds like a provincial town of 4,000 people in the Midlands in 1987, not a grown up modern urban centre.
You are correct in that old rules dont an dwont apply, especially with internet shopping and how it will reshape retail and town and city centres.
I never suggested driving shop to shop you are just being silly
cork has a population. not everyone you see on the street drives in.
the last time i was in cork city during the week was November and it was dead. hopefully that has changed. but all i saw was empty buildings and poundshops.
But do you not think it would be a good thing if i went to cork city center.
Bought a coffee maybe a paper. sat down and read it somewhere. then go for a wander maybe buy some things? spend a while browsing the books in waterstones/easons, meet some friends for lunch etc.
If i spent the day in town doing nothing it would end up costing me about 20 euro.
I have friends in cork city, I visit them after 6:30 and on sundays.
Because parking is just too expensive.
"Your nostalgia about 10 years ago sounds like a provincial town of 4,000 people in the Midlands in 1987, not a grown up modern urban centre"
Cork is great - but its closer to a provincial town of 4,000 then a modern urban center.
you can drive through/around it in 30 mins.
You completely misunderstand the concept of pay parking.
Pay parking should only be introduced as a mechanism to control the availibility of scarce on-street road space. You maximise on-street car parking for short stay visits, which in turn supports retail activity in the centre. Free town and city centre car parking encourages the dominance of the central area's street parking pool by workers, which actually sterilises and prohibits retail activity and vitality as cars park in valuable shopping areas frm 09.00- 17.00 with little or no benefit or spin off to the retail economy. We should not have free car parking on our shopping streets. We should not have free car parkng on Patrick Street, any of our city centre streets, main streets and town centres. It ius a ridiculous idea that has been discredited since the 1970s. This is a widely accepted and fundamental ingredient of attractive and efficient town and city centre management all over the world. Successful city/town centres ration on-street parking and promote short stay use. It makes economic and environemtnal sense. I recommend Donal Shoup's 'The High Cost of Free Parking' as an excellent textbook on this subject.
The fact that pay parking also produces a revenue for Local Authorities is a good thing. Despite the fact that is seems to raise the usual 'bloody moneygrabbing evil council' response from angry Douglas 'village' types who are foaming at the mouth about having to pay for the privelege of paying for car parking shouldnt blind us from the fact that any measure of local revenue generation that is rational and environmentally and socially acceptable is a positive thing. Usually, it is ringfenced through local agreements, and directed towards local environmental and public realm enhancements. This is all good, responsible and practical local urban management.
The same situation could be managed just as easily by having time limited free parking, say the first 2 hours free then no return for 1 or 2 hours. This is what UK councils are cottoning onto at the moment and will probably take another 10 years for Irish councils to wake up to but by then it will be too late, the high street will be dead as people will go to out of town shopping centres and online.
BTW, I'm not talking about city centres, I'm talking about towns and villages.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinky
There is something inherently wrong with someone who chooses to become a referee
Pay parking is an inconvenience, a system like the Germans & others use would be far better. You have a parking disc that you set the time on, it will work for the the genuine short stay parkers while penalise the ones who park in an area like Douglas to get the bus into town. There's no scrambling for change & no ugly meters on the street.
Linear Mode
