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  #21  
Old 31-07-2012, 02:57 PM
atkin atkin is offline
 
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Default Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelred View Post
Didn't fracking trigger an earthquake somewhere recently enough?
Yes fracking can contribute to earthquakes if near a fault zone.
The pumping of large amounts of water acts like a lubricant in the cracks causing movement.
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  #22  
Old 31-07-2012, 03:17 PM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacky View Post
The Irish Times - Thursday, February 16, 2012The pros and cons of fracking for natural gas

WILLIAM REVILLE

However, the new fracking used on shale calls for up to four million gallons of fluid per well. The high pressure fluid cracks the shale and penetrates into the cracks extending them further. To keep the fractures open when the pressure is later relaxed, a solid proppant, commonly sieved sand, is added to the fluid. The propped fractures allow the trapped gas and oil to flow to the well. The injection fluid is also heavily dosed with chemicals to aid its flow – 15,000 to 60,000 gallons of chemicals per well.
This sounds like a vast amount of water, but it's enough to fill 4-5 Olympic swimming pools. Which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't actually that much water.

For some perspective, that's 1/10 of Cork's daily water consumption.

Not totally insignificant, but not as massive as many of the opponents claim.
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Originally Posted by Stacky View Post
Tamboran promises not to use chemical additives in any fracking in Ireland.
They be funny.

And lying. Doesn't work properly without the additives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
Ah stop wouldya, the two aren't compatible. The Rossport thing is alarmist and unfounded and nimbyism - no argument.

Fracking is totally different. There is actual evidence of groundwater pollution from this.
Not particularly good evidence for it being a widespread problem though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atkin View Post
Yes fracking can contribute to earthquakes if near a fault zone.
The pumping of large amounts of water acts like a lubricant in the cracks causing movement.
Ireland is a very long way from a major fault zone.
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  #23  
Old 31-07-2012, 03:19 PM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post
This sounds like a vast amount of water, but it's enough to fill 4-5 Olympic swimming pools. Which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't actually that much water.

For some perspective, that's 1/10 of Cork's daily water consumption.

Not totally insignificant, but not as massive as many of the opponents claim.

They be funny.

And lying. Doesn't work properly without the additives.

Not particularly good evidence for it being a widespread problem though.


Ireland is a very long way from a major fault zone.

Surely the border between North and South counts ?
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  #24  
Old 31-07-2012, 03:21 PM
NorthWestSouth NorthWestSouth is offline
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http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/...turally-leaky/

Interesting and non-biased article here. At the moment, it's looking like it's not as dangerous as the anti-frackers claim, but not as safe as the fracking companies claim. Who'd have thought.
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  #25  
Old 31-07-2012, 06:11 PM
atkin atkin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post
This sounds like a vast amount of water, but it's enough to fill 4-5 Olympic swimming pools. Which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't actually that much water.

For some perspective, that's 1/10 of Cork's daily water consumption.

Not totally insignificant, but not as massive as many of the opponents claim.

They be funny.

And lying. Doesn't work properly without the additives.

Not particularly good evidence for it being a widespread problem though.


Ireland is a very long way from a major fault zone.
So you would not mind living in a fracking zone.
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:50 AM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atkin View Post
So you would not mind living in a fracking zone.
No, I would not.

Here's an interesting page:
http://www.cwb.gov.tw/eng/

In Taiwan (where I am right now, waiting out a Typhoon (Pacific hurricane...), they get a 3-4 magnitude earthquake every day.

The earthquakes in Blackpool that caused so much hullabaloo over this side of the world were 2.3 and 1.5

The Richter Scale is logarithmic. A grenade would register on it (as ~0.2), but at a distance, it would be impossible to feel.

The earthquakes in Blackpool are the equivalent of the sort of shaking you get from using big explosives in a mine site. And, of course, they dissipate quickly at a rate of 1/R^2, where R is the distance from the origin. So the intensity at 1km would be 10,000 times less than the intensity at 10m.


Once you understand all that, you realise why the whole talk about earthquakes is overhyped. Yes, there is a chance that once, you'll get something that might cause a little damage. But the chances are no more than the chances of the Whitegate oil refinery blowing up, or the local petrol station exploding.

No such thing as zero risk so course companies do need to take care, monitor carefully and use the best practice methods of drilling, but then again, there's a load of sensationalist crap spouted too.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:01 AM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atkin View Post
So you would not mind living in a fracking zone.
No one volunteraly lives in Leitrim or South Fermanagh.

We either frack the gas from this side of the border or let the Brits take it all from their side.

Would would Padraig Pearse do as he hunkered in the GPO under shell fire and a hail of bullets at the thought of the Crown profiteering from Irish gas ?


After writing a short poem he would set up the fracking wing of the IRA.
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  #28  
Old 02-08-2012, 01:16 PM
Earth Repair Earth Repair is offline
 
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Default Rossport and Fracking

Have to take issue with earlier comments in this thread running down the Rossport issue as nimbyism and alarmism. This is far from the case, though if one relies on mainstream media for ones worldview it is easy to see how a person might come to think that. It is exactly what the government and Shell would like us to think as it allows them to go ahead with their plans relatively unhindered.
There are direct parallels between the Corrib Gas Project and proposed hydraulic fracturing in the West of Ireland and it is helpful to understand these if one is considering doing something about it.
Here are three very general ones to start with:
Appropriation of natural resources by trans-national corporations at the expense of the Irish people and environment
Ecological damage such as water and air pollution, (as caused during construction of Shell's refinery at Bellinaboy - Carrowmore lake, water supply for the area was contaminated with aluminium.), loss of habitat and biodiversity.
Social damage caused by lack of consultation with local communities.
We are seeing all this up in Mayo and we will see more of the same and worse if fracking is allowed to go ahead in this country.
For people living in communities threatened by the prospect of fracking there are many very valuable lessons to be learned from the people of Erris who have made collosal sacrifices on behalf of the rest of us (even if we are too insensitive, stupid or insulated from reality to see this). We would all be wise to pay attention to these lessons before it is too late.
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2012, 01:28 PM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Repair View Post
Have to take issue with earlier comments in this thread running down the Rossport issue as nimbyism and alarmism. This is far from the case, though if one relies on mainstream media for ones worldview it is easy to see how a person might come to think that. It is exactly what the government and Shell would like us to think as it allows them to go ahead with their plans relatively unhindered.
There are direct parallels between the Corrib Gas Project and proposed hydraulic fracturing in the West of Ireland and it is helpful to understand these if one is considering doing something about it.
Here are three very general ones to start with:
Appropriation of natural resources by trans-national corporations at the expense of the Irish people and environment
Ecological damage such as water and air pollution, (as caused during construction of Shell's refinery at Bellinaboy - Carrowmore lake, water supply for the area was contaminated with aluminium.), loss of habitat and biodiversity.
Social damage caused by lack of consultation with local communities.
.

Utter tree hugging quasi waffle from the build nothing anywhere ever brigade.
(Gay and Lesbian Trotskyist Childrens Origami Classrooms made out of bark excepted)


Shell Ireland are legally entitled to proceed with their works as they have all the relevant permissions and licences from the County Council, An Bord Pleanala and the EPA and if some bunch of cranks who did not attend consultation keep protesting then that is their right but they are breaking the laws of the land. Remember the same shower opposed the electrification of the area.

Shell are acting within the confines and constraints of the law.
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Corcaigh32 Corcaigh32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Repair View Post
Have to take issue with earlier comments in this thread running down the Rossport issue as nimbyism and alarmism. This is far from the case, though if one relies on mainstream media for ones worldview it is easy to see how a person might come to think that. It is exactly what the government and Shell would like us to think as it allows them to go ahead with their plans relatively unhindered.
There are direct parallels between the Corrib Gas Project and proposed hydraulic fracturing in the West of Ireland and it is helpful to understand these if one is considering doing something about it.
Here are three very general ones to start with:
Appropriation of natural resources by trans-national corporations at the expense of the Irish people and environment
Ecological damage such as water and air pollution, (as caused during construction of Shell's refinery at Bellinaboy - Carrowmore lake, water supply for the area was contaminated with aluminium.), loss of habitat and biodiversity.
Social damage caused by lack of consultation with local communities.
We are seeing all this up in Mayo and we will see more of the same and worse if fracking is allowed to go ahead in this country.
For people living in communities threatened by the prospect of fracking there are many very valuable lessons to be learned from the people of Erris who have made collosal sacrifices on behalf of the rest of us (even if we are too insensitive, stupid or insulated from reality to see this). We would all be wise to pay attention to these lessons before it is too late.
This is scary in its level of denial.
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