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  #1561  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:32 PM
SoundMan SoundMan is offline
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Originally Posted by bluesball View Post
S F now trying to take credit for the civil rights marches of the sixties
Really? You got a link to that?
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  #1562  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:47 PM
SoundMan SoundMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Roxetten View Post
Mallon, a political rival who was unequivocal in condemning the murderous IRA lunatics, who never had any links to criminality and who has a clear conscience.
And who's party was deemed by the electorate as not representing their wishes. John Hume was a statesman who was all about bringing peace and justice and imho one of the great politicians of my lifetime. Mallon was a very very pale imitation. And having seen Mallon up close a couple of times and on tv since McGuinness took over as Deputy First Minister I think it fair to say that Mallon has shown himself to be very bitter about what he sees as being usurped as the voice of nationalist electorate.

And while plenty besides Mallon can console themselves with a clear conscience in that regard and wish a curse on all the houses of those who felt the need to take up violence, more pragmatic people wished to deal with the actualities in an effort to bring them away from violence and bring about peace. Giants like John Hume
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  #1563  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:49 PM
jimmym jimmym is online now
 
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Originally Posted by SoundMan View Post
Walking implacably behind the hearse according to last nights show.

While the two SAS guys were described as "two corporals" on the show it never mentioned the fact that one of them fired his weapon when the car in which they drove into the cortege was surrounded by mourners.

At a time when West Belfast was on heightened alert, everybody was very jumpy, a loyalist gunman had brazenly attacked the previous republican funeral, throwing grenades and firing at mourners killing 3 and injuring many others, and then was rescued by RUC on the motorway, army helicopters were flying overhead but these were two off duty army guys apparently who just happened to be out for a spin in that very part of West Belfast. Plausible?
I remember watching today tonight on rte in the days following the gibraltar
shootings, mary kenny and mary banotti were aghast at the thoughts of the bodies coming through dublin airport, neil blaney put them in their place,
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  #1564  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:51 PM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Irish Times
Séamus Mallon: Adams legitimised killing of members of other community
Gerry Adams years: SDLP stalwart says Sinn Féin leader only hardened tribal divisions
Séamus Mallon, pictured in 1998 sitting behind Gerry Adams at an address in Belfast by Bill Clinton, has little affection for the Sinn Féin leader: “I just can’t be in the same room with him. There’s just something about him that I recoil from. He has his hand in too many awful events, too many.” Photograph: AP
Séamus Mallon, pictured in 1998 sitting behind Gerry Adams at an address in Belfast by Bill Clinton, has little affection for the Sinn Féin leader: “I just can’t be in the same room with him. There’s just something about him that I recoil from. He has his hand in too many awful events, too many.” Photograph: AP

Peter Murtagh
about 8 hours ago

Séamus Mallon today lives quietly in Markethill in Co Armagh perched just above the remnants of a wall that, centuries ago, was a bulwark against all harm for the English and Scottish planters who settled there.

Now 82, the former deputy first minister and SDLP stalwart believes Gerry Adams’s legacy is a hardening of the tribal divisions in Northern Ireland.

His condemnation is forthright: Adams legitimised the killing of members of the other community, while at the same time saying he wanted to work with that community.

Adams’s actions led to the Balkanisation of politics in Northern Ireland, and the normalising of lies in political discourse; building electoral primacy with the aid of a black economy of fuel laundering and illegal vodka distilling.

Mallon is the elder statesman of the shrunken centreground of Northern nationalist politics, an ordinary man who became a primary school teacher but was propelled to fight institutionalised discrimination.

Having joined the civil rights movement, he spent decades arguing for better politics, never firing a shot (nor encouraging anyone else to) before finally becoming the first deputy first minister under the Belfast Agreement.

There are some 1,600 people in Markethill, the great majority of them from a unionist, loyalist or Protestant background, depending on the sectarian terminology one selects.

Awful events
They are more than merely his neighbours. They are his fellow Irishmen and women, says Mallon, who was characteristically slow-spoken, measured and firm in his views as he considered Adams’ standing down as Sinn Féin leader.

Though he recognises the Sinn Féin leader’s political achievements, he has little affection for him: “I just can’t be in the same room with him. I don’t want to be. I’ve spent my life getting on with people and liking people that I didn’t agree with. There’s just something about him that I recoil from. He has his hand in too many awful events, too many.”

Asked how he thinks Adams will be remembered, he says: “Revered in the way that violent republicans are [and] virulently disliked among unionists. People like myself, and I suppose what you could call middle nationalism, [have] little respect for him.”

Though he acknowledges that Adams and his close associates in the Sinn Féin/IRA organisation brokered change within it – “he organised that change is a very efficient way” – Mallon dwells on what went before.

“Why had they spent so many years causing such heartbreak and hatred ?” he asks. “Every action that they took was increasingly sectarian. In both communities, they moved into the tribal situation, if only for protection.”
‘They wouldn’t let you say a bad word about Gerry Adams’
Adams should admit to IRA role, says Enniskillen bombing victim’s daughter
Gerry Adams was crucial in persuading the IRA to cease fire

They did not win. And the IRA were the biggest failures of the past 40 years and in the process, demeaned the term republican and all that it stood for
Recent relations between Sinn Féin the DUP have been about grabbing power, not sharing it: “It is a form of Balkanisation: two political silos, not interested outside of their own party positions.”

Gable walls
Sinn Féin and the IRA’s cleaving to violent republicanism during most of his political life was based on “this awful conviction that they could win and would win”, he says.

“How often did I see the gable walls of houses and barns with graffiti, ‘1975: the year of victory, 1985: the year of victory?’ But what sometimes is ignored is the fact that they lost.

“They did not win. And the IRA were the biggest failures of the past 40 years and in the process, demeaned the term republican and all that it stood for,” he told The Irish Times.

True republicanism is about finding ways to “live together, in peace and harmony, with respect for each other and a respect for the country in which we live”, he said.

Such an agreement could take many forms, but its essence is that it is recognised that “unionists, most of whom have lived here for about 400 years, are also Irish; that this also is their homeland”.

I think a political party has to be an awful lot more. If you tell lies, it is very difficult to respect people who tell lies
Sinn Féin was not the voice of partnership, but partisanship, he said. “And that partisanship extends right through their political party and their political being, in the sense that you either win or you lose, you are either Catholic or you are Protestant. You are either. . . it’s a zero-sum equation of political life in a lot of countries and they seem to be wedded to this.”

Hypocrisy and lies
The Belfast Agreement could not impose generosity, he accepts, but healthy politics can “protect the community, hopefully, against hypocrisy and lies, and Mr Adams is very good at both”.

Questioned for examples, he has many: “The IRA didn’t kill Paul Quinn in south Armagh; [Adams] was never a member of the IRA; [Sinn Féin] initiated the civil rights movement – that’s their latest lie and they could continue for quite some time in that vein.

“I think a political party has to be an awful lot more. If you tell lies, it is very difficult to respect people who tell lies. If you develop and harness a black economy in the way they have done, in this county especially, how can you respect them?”

Looking back at the achievements of the civil rights movement and later the SDLP, he lists them as one man,one vote; equal treatment in the provision of public housing; fair employment legislation; the Anglo-Irish Agreement, reform of the police, judiciary and the courts system; the harnessing of US political opinion on the side of change; and, ultimately, the Belfast Agreement itself.

“What was achieved through the gun?” he asks. What was gained by Sinn Féin remaining initially outside the Belfast Agreement negotiation process?

“The release of prisoners, amnesties for some on the run . . . I’m trying to think of something else.”

Unquiet ghosts
The post-Adams world will not be one of steady political growth for Sinn Féin, he predicts.

“I don’t think in the foreseeable future that Sinn Féin will be seen as a normal political party,” he says.

“There are ghosts about, the unquiet ghosts, of Tom Oliver, Brian Stack, Jean McConville, and God knows one could go on forever, those ghosts – they’ll be clouded in those for the foreseeable future.”

And what of Michelle O’Neill in the North and Mary Lou McDonald in the South?

“The lady up here will do what she’s told. She will say what has been written for her. That’s her role; nothing more to her role than that,” he says of O’Neill.

“I don’t know enough about Mary Lou McDonald. She’s very personable, she looks well on television, she speaks well . . .”

If Sinn Féin won power in the Republic, he believes the party would “take a number of years stroking everybody, pleasing everybody and maybe after 10 years, they would forget about that but it would all depend what’s happening here [in Northern Ireland] . . .”

Either way, he does not believe Gerry Adams will be absent from the scene.

“He will not be able to survive without the adulation, the massaging of his ego.”
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  #1565  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:14 PM
Duffs Duffs is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SoundMan View Post
Walking implacably behind the hearse according to last nights show.

While the two SAS guys were described as "two corporals" on the show it never mentioned the fact that one of them fired his weapon when the car in which they drove into the cortege was surrounded by mourners.

At a time when West Belfast was on heightened alert, everybody was very jumpy, a loyalist gunman had brazenly attacked the previous republican funeral, throwing grenades and firing at mourners killing 3 and injuring many others, and then was rescued by RUC on the motorway, army helicopters were flying overhead but these were two off duty army guys apparently who just happened to be out for a spin in that very part of West Belfast. Plausible?
Really? You got a link to that?
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  #1566  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:21 PM
ocides ocides is offline
 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/...at_ira_funeral
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  #1567  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:23 PM
Duffs Duffs is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ocides View Post
And what would you have done if you were in their position and not sitting on your barstool singing along to "The men behind the wire"?
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  #1568  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:27 PM
ocides ocides is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Duffs View Post
And what would you have done if you were in their position and not sitting on your barstool singing along to "The men behind the wire"?
Since you belong to the corporals side I'll let you answer that question.

Besides I wouldn't be that stupid.
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  #1569  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:30 PM
bluesball bluesball is offline
 
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Was on the BBC news 6.30pm last night Soundman B.Devlin putting SF back in their Box.
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  #1570  
Old 09-02-2018, 03:33 PM
Duffs Duffs is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocides View Post
Since you belong to the corporals side I'll let you answer that question.

Besides I wouldn't be that stupid.
So you mean you don't know the words to "The men behind the wire".

More evidence that you're a plastic Republican.
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