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  #41  
Old 31-01-2006, 01:02 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulie
I think that's my point... why don't they use their ears instead of this bush telegram... unfortunately, from where I can see, the major labels seem to be followers of fads...
Well, unfortunately that is the reality, whether you like it or not. The good thing is that it is very much worth your while to create a buzz- it can open doors if you do an independent release.

For current views on the state of the industry, read Steve Albini:
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html
and the notorious mixerman diaries (very funny, but sadly true):
http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/mm/
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  #42  
Old 31-01-2006, 01:36 PM
drop d drop d is offline
 
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Look, your last post! If you could sum it up in a couple of lines what would it be?
i dont get what your about or where you find fault with what i am saying.... frankly i dont see where this is going.

I think strict66 knows what he implied and i thought i answered him? its probably up to him to clarify this.

Just because my posts are difficult to understand by you, doesent mean they are incoherrent, it is only actually you that had a problem understanding this business term.

For no other point than i think there may confusion on your point of view(paddy and myself were happy to drop it) ill try to answer a few of your observations to clarify my position.

Quote:
He meant that no other collection agency provides the additional services that IMRO do. The US agencies are one of the few exceptions. Do your research...
Can you tell me exactly what services IMRO offer that http://www.prs.co.uk/ dont... Cos honestly, i thought my research was adaquate!

Quote:
Right! Great! NOW you're making a valid and lucid point. S'funny, it's about royalties... but seeing as that is IMRO's primary function, then of course that is what we should be discussing. I was not aware that they had any policy on web royalties- and I am not doubting you. But surely they are open to negotiation? I have always found them very open to discussing improvements and other issues, and I doubt that their wish is to "infringe". So, what does a site like cpu.ie do?
Well you would have known if you had done your research, regarding negotiations and other activities regarding other business's, I just dont know. But feel free to investigate yourself and post your finding here. start here http://www.imro.ie/music_users/music-use-online.shtml

Quote:
Again, compared to similar bodies, their running costs are on the low side compared to the membership numbers- see SIPTU.
I dont really think you can compare 2 entities from 2 different industries, but if you can great, otherwise your counter arguement is conceptual and not factual and hence not really an arguement. Just show some financial running costs!

Quote:
No, it's not off topic. Q: Why can't IMRO do this as well? A: It would probably stretch their resources. Q: Why can't they help YOU to do it? A: I dunno, what do you think?
i dont quite follow where you are going with this. Can you elaborate? Are you asking me/IMRO a question and answering yourself?

Quote:
Great, now you're making a clear point about the showcases. From what paddypaws say it's IMRO's call. Why don't you ask them what their criteria are? I bet they are simply looking for bands that seem to be fairly serious and reasonably proficient.
They are looking for bands that are already good! Or asking advise of locals..Bush telegraph...other people mentioined. My point was they could do more to help less good bands get better....like the "get in and make music" initiative. But i fail to see what you are saying. I think we are talking about the same subject matter relating to 2 differing aspects.

I think rather than focusing on initiaves selecting the best in cork their focus should be directed at helping the other bands to get up to a higher level. Its their appraoch to this initiative i feel does not help the music community, i could care less really about how they do it, just that it is not beneficial to other musicians
I think you are actually talking about the selection criteria, and its merits.


Quote:
I can't draw any conclusions without facts, so let's forget about this (off topic?) issue- which YOU raised in an effort to defend your criticisms of IMRO showcases!
Or rather I raised an answer to a question you asked. Again you seem to be generalising here.


Quote:
I am asking you TO CLARIFY what your point is... what is it? You are being evasive by answering with a question!
My point is i dont think this showcase will aid the cork music scene bar for the actual performers. Can you answer same please.

Quote:
So now you're saying it IS true, but you don't like it... make up your mind!!
Now thats funny!

Quote:
Yes, I did not identify this issue because I was trying to figure out what issue you were trying to raise!! It now appears that you have actually made THE POINT that you were trying to make all along!
Again, very good entertaining in a humourous way, but what are you talking about?

Quote:
Again, there is only so much IMRO can do- they are not a charity and bands are businesses. It's up to them to make the effort. This is a separate issue and is beyond IMRO's control- so your criticism of IMRO is STILL unfounded IMO.
My critisism starts and ends with the showcase aiding the music scene, perhaps you should reread the thread

Quote:
I suggest you edit your posts before posting them? You're doing a stream of consciousness thing where you raise interesting and valid points, but there is a lack of clarity and occasionally you contradict yourself. Sorry to be harsh, but I am finding your posts difficult to follow.
Unfortunately the exception doesnt make the rule in this case!
No-one else has issue with my post construction, so i guess that problem really lands on you levels of interpretation not my levels of expression. Sorry, not trying to be harsh.
__________________
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Last edited by drop d; 31-01-2006 at 01:40 PM..
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  #43  
Old 31-01-2006, 02:02 PM
strict66 strict66 is offline
 
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I think strict66 knows what he implied and i thought i answered him? its probably up to him to clarify this.


To be fair and as I already admited I was wrong in saying there is no english equivalent of imro . As you pointed out there is the the performing arts society (might have wrong ) Now I not going to list them and to be honest there are people better qualified to do so , but there is a few differences between Imro and them . Also and this not meant as snide or anything ,but you seem to be giving out about imro for things that are neither theyre fault or their business to worry about . But also you brought up some valid points that I agree with , but its just that they have nothing to with imro
thanks mate best of luck
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  #44  
Old 31-01-2006, 02:08 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East coast
Posts: 2,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
Look, your last post! If you could sum it up in a couple of lines what would it be?
i dont get what your about or where you find fault with what i am saying.... frankly i dont see where this is going.
I've said it already- you have not presented a valid case to back up your criticisms of IMRO, except for the web royalties issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
I think strict66 knows what he implied and i thought i answered him? its probably up to him to clarify this. Can you tell me exactly what services IMRO offer that http://www.prs.co.uk/ dont... Cos honestly, i thought my research was adaquate!
I deleted that reference because I was wrong. Looks like you read my post before I deleted it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
Just because my posts are difficult to understand by you, doesent mean they are incoherrent, it is only actually you that had a problem understanding this business term.
The use of jargon is a major problem in cross disciplinary communication, such as we have here. For the purposes of clarity it is best to stick to standard English in as much as that is possible. Note that I did actually thank you for the clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
For no other point than i think there may confusion on your point of view(paddy and myself were happy to drop it) ill try to answer a few of your observations to clarify my position.
OK... but can you at least construct a sentence properly, type more slowly and punctuate correctly? The above sentence is ambiguous. I just want to understand your points- feel free to disengage at any time.

As I said, I did not doubt what you stated about IMRO's online royalty policy. I was wondering if you had discussed the issue with them, and if you were aware of what other Irish websites are doing. It was not a criticism, just a question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
I dont really think you can compare 2 entities from 2 different industries, but if you can great, otherwise your counter arguement is conceptual and not factual and hence not really an arguement. Just show some financial running costs!
I think it is a reasonable comparision because in terms of admin their needs are similar. I will post some costs for comparison- but YOU have not presented a convincing argument for YOUR criticism of IMRO's running costs!

As for my questions, I was wondering it you have discussed the showcases with IMRO. I am sure they would be willing to discuss your issues. It seems to me that you are knocking them based on your perception of the situation, without understanding their point of view. It also seems to me that you might be able to help them improve the way the showcases are run. Apart from anything else, you are passionate about the issue, which is a good thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
They are looking for bands that are already good!
So I have to ask- what is the point of showcasing a band that really needs to practice more? And we're back again to the issue of rehearsal rooms...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
I think rather than focusing on initiaves selecting the best in cork their focus should be directed at helping the other bands to get up to a higher level. Its their appraoch to this initiative i feel does not help the music community, i could care less really about how they do it, just that it is not beneficial to other musicians
I think you are actually talking about the selection criteria, and its merits.


Or rather I raised an answer to a question you asked. Again you seem to be generalising here.
God, I dunno how you think the above statement is clear... are you in college writing essays like this? Again, IMRO's resources are limited. The showcase is a decent way to use their resources. Helping bands in the way you suggest is not their job. It could easily be YOUR job! How about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
My point is i dont think this showcase will aid the cork music scene bar for the actual performers. Can you answer same please.
Thank god! Finally, your point. You are right. So how is this a bad thing? IMRO are helping some bands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
My critisism starts and ends with the showcase aiding the music scene, perhaps you should reread the thread
I have, a few times, and your last post is the first time you managed to get your point across clearly. Y'see, paddypaws was apalled by your original post because you appeared to be knocking IMRO for no reason. If you had simply stated your point as you just did, there would not have been any problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
Unfortunately the exception doesnt make the rule in this case!
Without realising it you have bastardised a cliché that was based on a misunderstanding of the original meaning of the verb "to prove". Originally, it was "the exception that proves the rule" where prove means "tests". So it is "The exception that TESTS the rule". Think about that one for a while, it's actually funny that people use this cliché in an argument. Usually it means they are talking rubbish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drop d
No-one else has issue with my post construction, so i guess that problem really lands on you levels of interpretation not my levels of expression. Sorry, not trying to be harsh.
All that means is that no-one else has bothered to say they have a problem. I am the only person who has taken the time to engage with you more than once in this thread. This MIGHT mean that nobody else could be bothered trying to decipher your posts! Note that this discussion ensued from your original post, where paddypaws and myself could only go on what you had written, not what you thought you had written.

Last edited by madtheory; 31-01-2006 at 02:14 PM..
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  #45  
Old 31-01-2006, 02:13 PM
Raulie Raulie is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madtheory
Well, unfortunately that is the reality, whether you like it or not. The good thing is that it is very much worth your while to create a buzz- it can open doors if you do an independent release.
I'm glad you understand my point and agree with me... I really am...

so what ya reckon is the best way to create a buzz in the industry for a band wanting to attract some major label interest?
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  #46  
Old 31-01-2006, 02:13 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strict66
you seem to be giving out about imro for things that are neither theyre fault or their business to worry about . But also you brought up some valid points that I agree with , but its just that they have nothing to with imro
Look drop d! At least one other person agrees with me...
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  #47  
Old 31-01-2006, 02:19 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
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Location: East coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulie
so what ya reckon is the best way to create a buzz in the industry for a band wanting to attract some major label interest?
Become a coke dealer

No, seriously, the best way is the old fashioned way: lots of well place gigs primarily; networking- make friends with radio people, journalists, A'n'R, etc. etc.

Basically, connecting with people. You need people. Be nice, don't be a pretentious arrogant prick, and you'll be fine. Always listen to advice, listen to what people have to say- you can always ignore it later.
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  #48  
Old 31-01-2006, 03:24 PM
drop d drop d is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strict66
You seem to be giving out about imro for things that are neither theyre fault or their business to worry about . But also you brought up some valid points that I agree with , but its just that they have nothing to with imro thanks mate best of luck
Ya thanks strict, your right im sure that it must look like that, i was initially responding to this (the second post in this thread BTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulie
so, bearing that in mind, i'd like to ask the question: what came out of last year's IMRO showcase gigs?
I did point out how valid + useful IMRO was, and how "it does what it says on the tin" in terms of royalty collection.
But as far as helping the local scene out (regardless of IMRO's intention or policy) i believe it only really assisted the contributors.

But as people began to pick at what i was saying, and demanding me to explain my beliefs, it appeared to loose track of what it was about. What is the real benefit of these showcases!

I think for that reason i wont reply to MADTHEORY's other post. I kinda think it will continue to go in a point less cirle.

Madtheory: Sorry if you didnt get my point of view, but i can understand why when i post in reply to paulie, paddy, you and cyprusavenue, it may seem i am talking about different standpoints....

I want to end this before it gets personal, and to allow the thread to get back on topic....submissions for the showcase!
No hard feelings!
__________________
==================== ===
http://drop-d.ie
Giving Musicians a Voice
http://myspace.com/dropdezine
==================== ====

Last edited by drop d; 31-01-2006 at 03:32 PM..
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  #49  
Old 31-01-2006, 07:46 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
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Fair enough. BTW I DO get where you're coming from, proabably more than you realise! Keep up the good work with the ezine. Thanks for the debate, I enjoyed it.
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