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  #21  
Old 28-09-2016, 01:48 PM
DanDan DanDan is offline
 
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Default Folked

Naw, kinda quiet this weekend, City all Folked up.....
DD
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  #22  
Old 29-09-2016, 10:20 AM
Iomanaíocht Iomanaíocht is offline
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Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
There has been quite an extensive campaign in the Social and Mainstream Media against The Flying Enterprise. There is much written about rights and nationality. I get involved in campaigns periodically. Close The Dump, Lord Mayor's Salary, get Catholics out of the Schools and Hospitals, and so on. I am not slow to protest. But in this case I protest against the protest. It is bogus and grossly unfair. It is Bullying.

This F.E. campaign is directed against one individual, Finbarr, the owner.
The other manager(s) who first attempted to deal with the matter are not being personally attacked and demonised. Nor is the third party HR company which deals with the 70 staff who work there. Buachaill, the Irish speaking barman, was not fired nor dismissed. In this campaign he did nothing wrong, he is a National Hero. In reality he left the HR mediations, seemingly to spend time on this campaign of demonising Finbarr. He doesn't want his job, nor is he taking any legal proceedings. What does this Blameless Idle Hero actually want?
It appears he wants to assert a 'right' to communicate with customers that he is serving, in Irish. This 'right' in his mind is irrespective of whether those customers understand what he is saying or not. Irrespective of whether this personally directed grandstanding is welcome or not. In fact it was not welcome at all, on several occasions at least. So much so that the customers being addressed complained to management. The bar manager asked our Buachaill to cut it out. He refused and did it again and again. Eventually Finbarr tried to stop this objectionable grandstanding. No success there either, so the HR company tried. Buachaill left during the their mediation efforts, to start a campaign of Demonisation against Finbarr.
What we have here is Online and Media Bullying.
I have seen public personae use their vast numbers of FaceBook 'friends'. Famous Musicians, Senators, Poets. All attacking Finbarr. A man who I believe is decent, liked, and respected.
A man who is providing jobs for 70+. A man who has transformed the old almost derelict Sully's Quay School into a vibrant part of Enterprise Corner.
I see an Article on this website, siding with the Lynch Mob against this man. An unsigned Article. For Shame.

DD
When people start talking about what a great guy Finbarr is, how many staff he employs and a "media bullying campaign" against him you know they're grasping at straws. When the majority disagrees with you it is "bullying". It's a distraction from the facts.

Finbarr sent his employee a letter that asked him to stop speaking Irish to other staff. It included his P45 as the young fella had walked off the job when he was verbally told to stop speaking Irish. That is a matter of record and RnaG have the HR letter which lots of people have seen.

Finbarr then, quite brazenly, tried to pull the wool over people's eyes by saying the issue is nothing to do with the Irish language and, with the help of 96FM and the local papers, which get a ton of advertising revenue from Finbarr every year, put out the bullshit that there was "more to this story than meets the eye". PJ Coogan's tweet was particularly telling.

The letter to the employee was singularly and completely about the Irish language and a request not to speak it to other staff members.

BTW Finbarr might be liked by aging musicians like yourself who have a vested interest in getting gigs from him or other bar owners but that is not the sentiment anyone I know has expressed about him.

Anyway whether he's liked or not is irrelevant or whether he employs 7, 70 or 700 (I find the bigger the staff the bigger the prick that manages them) he asked a member of staff to stop speaking Irish to other staff members. He made a mistake and he should admit it.
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  #23  
Old 29-09-2016, 01:06 PM
DanDan DanDan is offline
 
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Default Devious

I would not trust RnG to accurately relay the FULL content of a letter which they may or may not have. I would also not trust it to be an ONLY letter. If anyone choses to read through the widely available published material it supports my analysis. Common sense.
The barman spoke Irish to customers who did not welcome it. So much so that they complained. Customer(s) plural.
He obviously was in the habit of speaking in Irish to a colleague from the Gaeltacht, and another Irish speaker also. Was this chat regarding work matters during paid time? In which case it was not private and such secrecy in public would not be welcome pretty much anywhere. Was this chat during breaks? If so, how did customers become aware? How did management become aware? Who are these chatty colleagues? Now strangely silent. As a matter or record, the barman was first asked to stop whatever he was doing by a manager, not Finbarr. It is not clear how many such requests were made before he chose to leave, but it wouldn't make much sense for this to escalate in just these two steps. i.e. Clearly the most plausible and likely scenario is that he was asked repeatedly by managers. He stood his ground, Grandstanding. Foolishly and Mistakenly thinking he had a 'Right'.
He was not dismissed or fired. I think it pretty obvious that he was speaking Irish loudly at every opportunity, grandstanding, insisting on his 'Right', irrespective of whether his victims understood it, irrespective of whether it was causing his employers and their customers grief. It was clearly and definitely not part of what he was being paid to do on that premises. Again I question this talking to colleagues. Did they speak back to him in Irish? Are they still working there?
I would not believe a word out of PJ Coogan's mouth on any matter.
I would advise anyone, particularly this blatantly ignorant blatantly biased hurler on the ditch, that 'aging' is not an insult to us who have earned the title. Such an absurd attempt to insult speaks volumes as to the character of this Iomaníocht.
Many of us gain wisdom with the years, one wonders how the hurler will fare.
I am not aware of any gigs in the place, I would have thought functions, discos. I certainly have never performed there. I play in Gaelic btw.
Presuming that the 'majority' is somehow 'right' is again absurd. That kinda didn't work out so well in Germany, or North Korea.

Truth is a little bit like Poetry...... not a lot of people actually like it.

DD

Last edited by DanDan; 29-09-2016 at 03:00 PM..
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  #24  
Old 30-09-2016, 10:03 AM
Iomanaíocht Iomanaíocht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
I would not trust RnG to accurately relay the FULL content of a letter which they may or may not have. I would also not trust it to be an ONLY letter. If anyone choses to read through the widely available published material it supports my analysis. Common sense.
The barman spoke Irish to customers who did not welcome it. So much so that they complained. Customer(s) plural.
He obviously was in the habit of speaking in Irish to a colleague from the Gaeltacht, and another Irish speaker also. Was this chat regarding work matters during paid time? In which case it was not private and such secrecy in public would not be welcome pretty much anywhere. Was this chat during breaks? If so, how did customers become aware? How did management become aware? Who are these chatty colleagues? Now strangely silent. As a matter or record, the barman was first asked to stop whatever he was doing by a manager, not Finbarr. It is not clear how many such requests were made before he chose to leave, but it wouldn't make much sense for this to escalate in just these two steps. i.e. Clearly the most plausible and likely scenario is that he was asked repeatedly by managers. He stood his ground, Grandstanding. Foolishly and Mistakenly thinking he had a 'Right'.
He was not dismissed or fired. I think it pretty obvious that he was speaking Irish loudly at every opportunity, grandstanding, insisting on his 'Right', irrespective of whether his victims understood it, irrespective of whether it was causing his employers and their customers grief. It was clearly and definitely not part of what he was being paid to do on that premises. Again I question this talking to colleagues. Did they speak back to him in Irish? Are they still working there?
I would not believe a word out of PJ Coogan's mouth on any matter.
I would advise anyone, particularly this blatantly ignorant blatantly biased hurler on the ditch, that 'aging' is not an insult to us who have earned the title. Such an absurd attempt to insult speaks volumes as to the character of this Iomaníocht.
Many of us gain wisdom with the years, one wonders how the hurler will fare.
I am not aware of any gigs in the place, I would have thought functions, discos. I certainly have never performed there. I play in Gaelic btw.
Presuming that the 'majority' is somehow 'right' is again absurd. That kinda didn't work out so well in Germany, or North Korea.

Truth is a little bit like Poetry...... not a lot of people actually like it.

DD
This is actually fantastic in its hilarity. Particularly the wistful faux-arrogance of the last sentence.

Do you not see even the smallest shred of irony that with all these abhorrent rhetorical questions that you are doing exactly what you condemned in your original post regarding the "bullying" of your friend Finbarr?

Quote:
The barman spoke Irish to customers who did not welcome it.
He didn't. He was speaking it to other Irish speaking staff. Even Finbarr didn't dispute that on 96FM but then the story switched to "there's more to this than meets the eye" and that has been pedaled by yourself and the local media who are in Finbarr's pocket.

It was hinted that "the real story" would come out. We're still waiting and Finbarr will be held to it too.

Quote:
Presuming that the 'majority' is somehow 'right' is again absurd.
You're quoting the word 'right' as if I wrote that which is why it's clear you're not a very rational person and have got a bit of a temper. Something which you have form on here.

I didn't say the word "right" or imply it but you used that as an opportunity for you to mention "North Korea and Germany" in another attempt to smear the young lad who just stood up for what he believed in. He gets no credit from a seasoned protester like yourself for that though. Instead you're associating his side of the story with murderous and genocidal dictatorships. That's exactly the old 'just lie down and take your beating Paddy' mindset that this young fella was riling against. Fair play to him for standing up for his native language and culture.

What I did say was that the majority of people (on the Flying Enterprise's facebook page in this case) vehemently and overwhelmingly condemned Finbarr. You're interpreting this as "bullying" which again is playing the "victim" card for the wealthy publican and is way off the mark.

Quote:
Many of us gain wisdom with the years
Many don't either and I've a feeling you might be one of them. Many of us gain a conservative mind set as we get older too.

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  #25  
Old 30-09-2016, 10:30 AM
delzer delzer is offline
 
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The youngfella was acting the maggot got caught out then did his best to ruin an honest mans business.
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"Hear the birds? Sometimes I like to pretend that I'm deaf and I try to imagine what it's like not to be able to hear them. It's not that bad."
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  #26  
Old 30-09-2016, 10:45 AM
Iancurtis Iancurtis is offline
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Originally Posted by flyingspud View Post
Don't think it matters to anyone who eats or drinks there what kind he is.
If you didn't meet him it wouldn't.As I said in the other thread I was in there for food about twice and just found him too much.Theres a difference between a manager being friendly and being an overbearing,annoying ,nosy pest.Maybe some people like that OTT personal touch but it's not my cuppa.Also I'm not impressed with the lack of price tags on many of the goods in the shop
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  #27  
Old 30-09-2016, 09:24 PM
DanDan DanDan is offline
 
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Amadaniocht, you doth protest too much. It is accepted that three Gaelgoirs spoke Irish amongst themselves.
I won't repeat all the potential issues with that, except to ask again, were they being paid to do this? I also again wonder is it credible that Customers would complain about this if it was happening privately on work breaks. Really?

You want to extrapolate from this accepted fact, that Customers were NOT addressed in Irish. Really? Does that seem likely in context? Perhaps more cogently, do you have any way to validate this imagined reality?
I can see a common thread here in the supporters of this 'Right' to speak Irish irrespective of circumstance. i.e. A gang of annoying auld Ireland, self righteous, little shits. Your posts Amadaniocht. Q.E.D.
e.g.
Quote:
What I did say was that the majority of people (on the Flying Enterprise's facebook page in this case) vehemently and overwhelmingly condemned Finbarr. You're interpreting this as "bullying" which again is playing the "victim" card for the wealthy publican and is way off the mark.
Majority?

Over what time span and counted by who? I took a quick look. The most recent post is supportive of Finbarr. Back a bit in the Timeline there are posts by Gaelgoirs, both individual and representing Irish speaking (often state funded) organisations.
This is a concerted organised Bullying Campaign. It as started by the guy going to the media, rather than sticking with the arbitration process. Then the Irish speaking gangs all got together to attack Finbarr. This is a concerted, deliberate, organised, Bullying Campaign.
Two things stick out to my mind immediately.
1 The Flying Enterprise did not Delete these critical posts. Even when they were written in Irish.
2 The Flying Enterprise FB page has 4,208 Likers.

Majority?

Quote:
The youngfella was acting the maggot got caught out then did his best to ruin an honest mans business.
Exactly, did anyone benefit in any way from this prat going to the media? (Good luck with the next job kid.) Did anyone benefit from the so called Protest?
IMO, the Irish language has suffered here, it used to be kinda cool. The people involved in this Bullying Lynch Mob Campaign have disgraced any notion of Justice, Dignity, Cork Loyalty, Irishness, and themselves. Shame on you.



DD

Last edited by DanDan; 01-10-2016 at 08:53 PM..
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  #28  
Old 30-09-2016, 09:34 PM
Matlock Matlock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Amadaniocht, you doth protest too much. There is no need to either Capitalise or Bold, both regarded as rude on the Interweb btw. It is accepted that three Gaelgoirs spoke Irish amongst themselves.
I won't repeat all the potential issues with that, except to say were they being paid to do this? And to wonder is it credible that Customers would complain about this, particularly if it was happening privately on work breaks.

You want to extrapolate from this chat, that Customers were NOT addressed in Irish. Really? Does that seem likely in context? Perhaps more cogently, do you have any way to validate this imagined reality?
I can see a common thread here in the supporters of this 'Right' to speak Irish irrespective of circumstance. i.e. A gang of annoying auld Ireland, self righteous, little shits. Your posts Amadaniocht. Q.E.D.


Exactly, did anyone benefit in any way from this prat going to the media. Did anyone benefit from the so called Protest?
IMO, the Irish language has suffered here, it used to be kinda cool.
DD

Do you have anything to back up your claims on this thread or is this yet another example of your difficulty with the concept of evidence?
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  #29  
Old 30-09-2016, 09:57 PM
DanDan DanDan is offline
 
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Default Yawn

Hi Mattie, there is no evidence of any kind on display here from either side. That is how it will remain. For those that don't know, Matlock here always asks this same question. It appears in Mattie's world nothing exists unless there is proof.
Let's deal with that 'concept' permanently this time.
I have two questions your Worship:-
As we are dabbling in legal mores here, is there a presumption of innocence till proven guilty?
Do you believe in God Mattie?
DD

Last edited by DanDan; 01-10-2016 at 07:38 PM..
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  #30  
Old 03-10-2016, 10:15 AM
Iomanaíocht Iomanaíocht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
I took a quick look.
Therein lies your biggest problem SpamSpam. You take a quick look at everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
1 The Flying Enterprise did not Delete these critical posts. Even when they were written in Irish.
LOL. Send them an application for the Nobel Peace prize, Dan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Perhaps more cogently, do you have any way to validate this imagined reality?
This is just rambling nonsense to distract from what is widely accepted.

1. The F.E. asked an employee to stop speaking his native language with other staff in his own country.

2. He walked off the job and didn't return in protest (dead right in my opinion as his boss is clearly intolerant).

3. They sent him a letter with his P45 which stated that the incident came about because he was speaking Irish to other staff in the presence of customers and they allegedly felt uncomfortable with this (we could do the DanDan thing and say 'where are they? why aren't they coming out with public shows of support on radio?' - most likely because it never happened and if it did then they should have been told to leave the bar - imagine the anti-racist protest DanDan's type would raise if a customer complained about a Kenyan speaking swahili behind the bar!!!)

4. Finbarr is on the record as saying all staff must speak English ("this is an English speaking business") i.e. the country's native language speakers are not allowed to speak their language in their own country to each other.

In relation to 4 the protest has actually done a lot for the Irish language because it has brought a huge amount of Irish speakers who wouldn't have been engaged with it on a political level previously together. They are sick of being bullied by Finbarr and DanDan types and the unity it has brought about is amazing.

Previously, silly political decisions like bringing in a law to force local authorities to translate all documents to Irish regardless of demand were used to knock anyone who want to see the language strengthened (it was rescinded, thankfully) . There's similar bullshit going on with the E.U. now. Irish language speakers would rarely get behind campaigns like this.

The Flying Enterprise brought Irish language hate to a new level. Speakers would not dare try the cúpla focal with anyone if they didn't know their level (which provokes the infamous 'they're ramming it down our throats' defence) but now Finbarr and his ilk are trying to stop us speaking Irish to each other and that is a red rag to a bull as far as most Irish language speakers are concerned. It would be a new low and an international embarrassment.

Quote:
IMO, the Irish language has suffered here, it used to be kinda cool. The people involved in this Bullying Lynch Mob Campaign have disgraced any notion of Justice, Dignity, Cork Loyalty, Irishness, and themselves. Shame on you.
OK, this is just childish (and not because of the misplaced capital letters or re:"Justice" the fact that Irish is an official language of the state) but you're trying to provoke a reaction here along the lines where I might suggest you are a take-the-soup just-lie-down-and-take-the-whipping-west Brit that has respect for every other culture except the parts of his own that he doesn't understand.

You might want me to slide into suggesting that you probably laud the 1916 signatories and their passion for Irish culture but ironically you despise anyone trying to do something similar, even without the violence, 100 years later.

That usually gives anti-Irish language cranks like yourself carte-blanche to tar people who advocate Irish language rights as republican terrorists or as you've tarred us already as Nazis.

Some of us want to try to keep all aspects of our culture alive and enjoy doing so but you're the coward in the background waving the surrender flag to globalization. You want our culture suppressed and then you call us bullies for kicking up about it, LOL!

Unfortunately that was and is the attitude of your's and Finbarr's generation DanDan but our generation isn't having that.
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