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  #2761  
Old 21-02-2018, 09:24 AM
cakeyumyum cakeyumyum is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Drucker View Post
The whole coal quay north Main Street area is falling out of fashion rapidly.

It was trendy for a little while but the “refurbishment,” ruined it.

Now it’s TK Maxx, Peggy Twomeys, Lidl, a bookies, and a few pubs. Just like Mayfield Shopping Centre when you think of it.

They should have allowed the hotel to open there years ago.
Rising Sons seems to do well, the Chinese market is very good, sells whooper chilli's
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  #2762  
Old 21-02-2018, 09:26 AM
cakeyumyum cakeyumyum is offline
 
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http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/D...3da0da1ecfe-ds

Horgan's Quay to be approved on Friday. Probably the most important private development proposed in Cork.
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  #2763  
Old 21-02-2018, 10:06 AM
Pitcairn Pitcairn is offline
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Originally Posted by cakeyumyum View Post
http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/D...3da0da1ecfe-ds

Horgan's Quay to be approved on Friday. Probably the most important private development proposed in Cork.

There were only a few objections from residents on the Lower Glanmire Road worried about parking. If the company can satisfy their concerns then they would be able to start work next month.
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  #2764  
Old 21-02-2018, 10:17 AM
cakeyumyum cakeyumyum is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pitcairn View Post
There were only a few objections from residents on the Lower Glanmire Road worried about parking. If the company can satisfy their concerns then they would be able to start work next month.
That would be unreal but isn't it usually 4 to 8 months from planning permission to start of construction? That's how it seemed to go with Navigation Square and OAQ
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  #2765  
Old 21-02-2018, 10:36 AM
Pitcairn Pitcairn is offline
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Originally Posted by cakeyumyum View Post
That would be unreal but isn't it usually 4 to 8 months from planning permission to start of construction? That's how it seemed to go with Navigation Square and OAQ
From what I understand once the Council grants permission there is a 28-day period before it is fully granted in case someone appeals to Bord Pleanala.

I assume after that there are still a few things to be ironed out. I think the builders have to file a construction commencement notice seven days in advance.
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  #2766  
Old 21-02-2018, 10:53 AM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cakeyumyum View Post
That would be unreal but isn't it usually 4 to 8 months from planning permission to start of construction? That's how it seemed to go with Navigation Square and OAQ
You also have to get a fire and disabillty cert-a few months away yet i would say
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  #2767  
Old 21-02-2018, 10:54 AM
Stacky Stacky is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pitcairn View Post
From what I understand once the Council grants permission there is a 28-day period before it is fully granted in case someone appeals to Bord Pleanala.

I assume after that there are still a few things to be ironed out. I think the builders have to file a construction commencement notice seven days in advance.
They only people who can appeal to ABP are those who appealed the City Council originally afaik.

If their concerns were addressed via further info they might be ok?
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  #2768  
Old 21-02-2018, 11:49 AM
mire mire is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitcairn View Post
From what I understand once the Council grants permission there is a 28-day period before it is fully granted in case someone appeals to Bord Pleanala.

I assume after that there are still a few things to be ironed out. I think the builders have to file a construction commencement notice seven days in advance.
This is probably the most important development in cork right now. As far as I know the port of cork also made a submission, so they may be minded to appeal this.
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  #2769  
Old 21-02-2018, 12:15 PM
mire mire is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jank View Post
That is fine, but according to the NRA, the TII and both the Cork and Limerick chambers of commerce you are wrong.



The South Ring road is not a motorway. Engineering specifications and planning for motorways is entirely different to a DC. There are statuary constraints to developing and rezoning land near motorway ways. The local council have their hands tied when it comes to this, hence why having it as a Motorway will not lead to this sprawl you bang on about, this was pre M50 by the way. Lesson learned there.

By this measure you would be against the new train stations on the Mallow commuter rail line as this will just end up in sprawl. These stations are not in the core urban centre but on the outskirts. Do you agree with this line of thought?



So you agree in principle to building this motorway, just want Cork and Limerick to have perfect public transport first. Im a realist, if there is money there to improve infrastructure in Cork, we should go for it. We should of course also lobby for public transport improvements. Its not an either or in this case. Again, its less than €1 Billion out of €114 Billion

You hit the nail on the head there. This is catching up infrastructure. Before the Celtic Tiger, Irelands transport infrastructure was like that of a Eastern Block country. The sick man of Europe indeed. This road, being part of the atlantic corridor is a no brainer. Its going to be done sooner or later, its been on the cards for over a decade now. The NRA says its their number one priority to upgrade this national route. How can we catch up if we don't even have the basics?




Not at all. Cork has direct flights to Amsterdam, Paris among others that Shannon does not have. Shannon of course has good transatlantic flights. You will see for people in Cork, Shannon become a very good viable alternative. If they got one of the big ME 3 airlines to offer a fight a few times a week, it would be transformative.

Another way of looking at it, I have used Shannon twice in my life, much more than Cork. Yet in the past 10 years I have used Cork airport once and Dublin about a dozen times. The existing motorway network has sucked the life out of these airports. Great for Dublin of course, but this motorway will certainly attempt to rebalance that.

It may turn out that these airports battle each other out, with one airport becoming a winner. Fine. It would be great of course that its Cork, but lets assume its Shannon instead. Lets say Shannon becomes the main airport of the West, Shannon, Mid-West and Southern Region. Lets say Emirates start offering flights here to Dubai, lets say they develop the terminal to modernise it in the next decade. I would be pragmatic enough to realise that having a strong alternative in Shannon that is a little bit more than an hour up the road is better then trekking all the way to Dublin, as no other alternative is available.

This is not even talking about the Port of Cork being more important post Brexit.



The fact we do not have huge sprawl on the M8 is a sign to me that we have learned a bit from history. This is not 1990 anymore with the likes of Redmond and Burke at the helm. Sure, we may not be exactly Germany, but we are getting there. Otherwise nothing will ever happen if people are fearful of change and new infrastructure.
This is a very late response to your post, long delay but I thought it was worth responding to.

Regarding the difference between a dual carriageway and motorway - in terms of the land use implications there are none; both of them, when delivered close to major urban centres, have significant impacts of land uses and development contexts. I have been speaking about the impact of major urban and interurban roads projects on land use pressures in suburban areas. There is no doubt that major roads projects at the edge of urban areas contribute to urban sprawl. It does not matter whether the south ring road is technically not a motorway - the point surely is its impact on land use. There are no statutory zoning differences between land close to motorways that I'm aware of. Local authorities are entitled to zoned land where they wish - the restrictions relate to access points.

Your point about the impact of railway stations at the edge of urban centers is interesting - But I don't think that locating development close to railway stations is a bad thing - In fact it should be encouraged - but it must be rail based development - in other words the development needs to be oriented towards promoting rail travel. You can still have lots of development close to railway station that is not rail oriented development [see Midleton for example].

My general point is that I don't really think that the cork limerick motorway will be at all transformative; it is catching up infrastructure [And which probably should have been delivered 10 years ago], necessary from a traffic volume and perhaps a safety perspective, but if implemented without land use zoning restrictions, could have negative effects. Neither do I believe that it will have very significant economic impacts because I am unsure of the existing or potential economic interactions between the two cities that would benefit greatly from such a minor journey saving time. My other concern was that it would be delivered at the expense of other projects. I am somewhat encouraged about other elements of the national planning framework - although the Material about the northern ring road is phrased extremely ambiguously - as is the suggestion of a feasibility study for proper fixed public transport - there was a feasibility study into 2008.

On the wider point about change you make; I do think that cork is learning and it is very encouraging to hear discussions about proper public transport, new infrastructure, City living etc. For cork to live up to its potential though, and to become a city of quality it will have to be very disciplined in how it facilitates expansion in the future. There are very strong forces [in development, construction industry, property agents] who are actively promoting the message that cork really needs thousands of houses in the suburban green belt and that all this talk of Docklands and city livability and urban regeneration is fanciful. - see Michael O' flynn's recent comments recently for instance, and the proposals in cork county council's latest local area plans for mass rezoning of greenfield sites. I am also aware of major plays for large scale rezoning outside the city to the north and north east largely based on future accessibility emerging from major road construction. This will need to be actively resisted and it will be a real test for cork to see how it handles development pressures and the next 10 to 15 years.
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  #2770  
Old 21-02-2018, 04:09 PM
Baxter69 Baxter69 is offline
 
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Are you referring to the long muted Monard development?
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