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  #11  
Old 15-05-2015, 02:41 PM
Greenfinch Greenfinch is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rebelicecreamman View Post
Ar fud na hEorpa, nil deacaireacht ar bith doibh dha no tri theanganna Bhreise a mhuineadh dos na daltai.

In Éireann, fagann an Chuid is mo dos na daltai an mean scoil, tar eis 14 bhliain ag foghlaim, agus NI feidir leo aon ghaeilge ar bith a labhairt.

Cen fadh, dar leatsa? Nil ar dteanga nios deacaire na aon teanga eile.

Mar a duirt me, ta an ghaeilge scriosta ag 'lucht an teanga' in Éireann.
Tá sé níos easca an locht a chur ar na Sasnaigh, nó 'lucht na Gaeilge', no an choras oideachas.

Ach seo duit an fhirinne: Tá alán daoine sa tír seo nach bhfuilid sasta ' serve that in which ... no longer believe, whether it call itself home, fatherland, or church'

... nó teanga
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  #12  
Old 15-05-2015, 02:42 PM
Greenfinch Greenfinch is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
Ni glacaim leis sin thuas.

Fadhbanna soléir iad. Múin an teanga mar teanga labhartha. Fág an litríocht agus an phróis agus mar sin de go meánscoil agus leis sin don Árdteist ag gach leibhéil.

Sin an fáth nach bhfuil níos mó daoine ag labhairt as gaeilge cé go bhfuil go leor gaelscoileanna agus gaelcholáistí ann. Níl "critical mass" ann fós chun labhairt laethúil a bheith ann. Ach tiocfaidh sé, im thuairim, i gceann deich nó cúig mbliaina déag.
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  #13  
Old 15-05-2015, 03:35 PM
rebelicecreamman rebelicecreamman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Greenfinch View Post
Tá sé níos easca an locht a chur ar na Sasnaigh, nó 'lucht na Gaeilge', no an choras oideachas.

Ach seo duit an fhirinne: Tá alán daoine sa tír seo nach bhfuilid sasta ' serve that in which ... no longer believe, whether it call itself home, fatherland, or church'

... nó teanga
In terms of my own command, I am getting out of my depth so it's 'as bearla' at this stage in the interests of clarity and accuracy from here on.

Please explain to me the how and why of the brutal state of the Irish language at this juncture. How is it that at least three quarters of kids that left secondary school after 14 years of full time education cannot string two sentences together?

Are you seriously blaming the attitude of the students and absolving the educators?
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  #14  
Old 15-05-2015, 04:59 PM
Corcaigh32 Corcaigh32 is offline
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It is not the educators, it's the education policy and Irish curriculum.
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  #15  
Old 15-05-2015, 05:16 PM
rebelicecreamman rebelicecreamman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
It is not the educators, it's the education policy and Irish curriculum.
Aontaim leat.

And who have driven that but the zealots, the self-appointed 'curators' of the language who have almost succeeded in killing the language off completely, at least until the advent of the Gaelscoil movement?

Imo, the borderline supremacist, language-snob attitude exemplified by these people is mirrored in people's attitude to the appointment of McHugh as minister.

Since when does one have to be a gaelgoir to administer the language?

Maybe a citizen, who is clearly able, but who was brutally failed by the education system, and by extension, the self-appointed 'owners' of the language, is EXACTLY the person who should be handed the stewardship of the language for a change.
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  #16  
Old 15-05-2015, 05:22 PM
Greenfinch Greenfinch is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rebelicecreamman View Post
In terms of my own command, I am getting out of my depth so it's 'as bearla' at this stage in the interests of clarity and accuracy from here on.

Please explain to me the how and why of the brutal state of the Irish language at this juncture. How is it that at least three quarters of kids that left secondary school after 14 years of full time education cannot string two sentences together?

Are you seriously blaming the attitude of the students and absolving the educators?


Get in to a conversation about Irish and you'll soon be listening to 'oh 'tis a lovely language, I'd love to speak it, but twas rammed down our throats'. Ochone Ochone.

In actuality, Irish was no more rammed down throats by shit teachers than any other subject. My maths aren't great but I don't blame the education system at this juncture in my life, except in failing to show me the relevance of maths (yeah I know, but it wasn't obvious to me). I don't have massive incentive to improve my maths because I prioritise other things and don't have much call for maths. (though I've started something recently which has awakened my interest).



The question isn't exclusionary elitism, nor is it a poor education system.

The real question regards Irish people's true views about the relevance of Irish. Most aren't sure what the relevance is, and in this 'most' I include educators, students, politicians, and policy makers. Most would appear to have lost confidence in Irish as a viable modern medium for communication, this is a process that began somewhere in the 1800's. Most are going through the motions, the equivalent of 'tá athas orm an corn seo a glacadh'. That's their prerogative: if they have no interest that's fine, if they want to use it fine.

But just to put the bogeyman of elitism to bed, I'm the first to say use whatever Irish you have and anybody keeping tally on you for your mistakes as Gaeilge is a tool. This is NOT the same as criticising the selection of someone as minister for the language who can't speak the language. This isn't 'elitism', any more than criticising someone in any other well paid job for being unable to carry it out effectively due to a lack of skills.


How the jaysus is McHugh going to reply in any meaningful fashion to the real custodians of the language, people who use it on a regular basis, even as a mode of everyday interaction. How's he supposed to get stuck in to the concerns of people who choose to live in Irish speaking areas when, in any meeting with him they'll need to use English. I'm no FF fan, but Ó Cuiv or Michael D. was utterly conversant with the people, culture and history of the Gaeltachtaí. At an official level it should be represented by not only fluency but inspiring masterful usage (my choice would be someone like Nuala ní Dhomhnaill, or Louis De Paor). This is about more that 'administration', we've enough fucking ex-teacher fucking administrators in government (Hi Enda) https://puckstownlane.wordpress.com/...ule-the-roost/

McHugh's appointment isn't an inspiring story of 'the little train that could' , the real take away message is that, madir leis an Ghaeilge, dar leis an rialtas FG death by abandonment is perfectly acceptable.

Last edited by Greenfinch; 15-05-2015 at 06:09 PM..
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  #17  
Old 15-05-2015, 06:21 PM
Greenfinch Greenfinch is offline
 
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'Dearg le fearg' at Minister for Gaeltacht gan Gaeilge
Protest to be held outside the Department of the Taoiseach at 1.15pm today


Clare Cullen Twitter

16/07/2014 |

Is this a joke?



This government have made some idiotic decisions since being elected but this one takes the cáca.
Enda Kenny has made the decision of appoint a 'Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and Gaeltacht Affairs' "with a special responsibility’ for Gaeltacht matters" that openly admits his "conversational Irish certainly wouldn’t be great".
I am by no means an Irish snob - I don't think you have to be 'fluent' to love the language. God loves a trier, as they say, and my knowledge of An Modh Coinníollach could certainly be improved. However, I would be able to respond in Irish to a question asked in Irish.
Philip Ryan reported today that "Under questioning from Irish speaking politicians, Mr McHugh said he understood their questions but did not have the confidence to reply in Irish" and both ministers "struggled with the native language during their first Dail debate".
To draw a parallel, this would be like me being appointed, in France, as a Minister for the preservation of French, with only school French. French that I haven't spoken since I left school seven years ago and would then be expected to write, read and pass legislation in. Not only that, but the senior Minister in the Arts department, Heath Humphreys, has little or no Irish.
Sinn Fein’s Peadar Toibin pointed out that "for the first time Irish language documents would have to be translated into English" for the ministers and the department's first language would now be English.
People (used to) ask me if I was proud to see a Mayo man as Taoiseach. The answer is that I'm embarrassed.
Enda Kenny has continually embarrassed me, as a proud Mayo woman, with the idiotic (in my opinion) decisions he's made during this and previous terms of Government, but to appoint a junior Minister for the Gaeltacht who openly admits he can't speak it is beyond embarrassing. It's amaideach.
Fianna Fáil TD Éamon Ó Cuív released a statement saying that "fluent Irish should be an absolute prerequisite for a Minister with responsibility for the language; without it they cannot adequately carry out their duties in Gaeltacht Affairs". He should know - he was in charge of Gaeltacht Affairs from 1997 to 2010.
Conradh na Gaeilge Secretary General, Julian De Spáinn, said the Taoiseach "effectively reduced the status of the language" by not providing a Minister of State unable to "communicate with Irish speakers in their own language".
The Journal.ie reported that when challenged in the Dáil, Kenny claimed that Joe McHugh would take a "refreshers course" in Irish and RTE reported that he booked a course through Oideas Gael in Glencolmcoille. The whole thing reads like an unaired Father Ted episode!
Let's not forget one of the responsibilities of the Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht Affairs is to appoint the 12 board members of Údarás na Gaeltachta. Údarás na Gaeltachta, for those who don't know, is the "regional development authority funded by the Government to promote the linguistic, cultural, social, physical and economic development of the Gaeltacht with the overall objective of maintaining Irish as the main communal language of the region." So it's pretty pivotal and not just for the language, but for people's livelihoods - As of the end of 2013 there were 6,969 people employed in Údarás-assisted companies.
Enda Kenny's record with the Irish language is very poor - or, at least, a cruel indifference. Remember when he proposed to remove Irish from the Leaving Cert as a compulsory subject? Teenagers could just decide their national language was 'too hard' and replace it with something easier... maybe CSPE, useful and all as that has proved. Imagine if students were given the option to give up maths because they felt it was 'too hard'? There would be national uproar!
Kenny has stopped even paying lip-service to the upkeep of the language with this appointment, deliberately ignoring the needs or wishes of 100,716 people (census 2011). That number is only those living in Gaeltacht areas - there are many more Irish speakers living in non-designated Gaeltacht areas. Many of those who don't even count Irish as a language they are fluent in still don't want to see the language die - but the criminal indifference of the country's leader to the upkeep, promotion and encouragement of the language will certainly see it faster to it's grave.
The worst thing is that he knows he can get away with it. There will be a small amount of uproar from a niche group and he will just close his curtains while they protest outside - the same way the government did when the students protested. There isn't enough people that really, really care to get a national response, and he's taking full advantage of that. Even those that do care may feel that they shouldn't protest unless they're fluent, which is not the case. Ireland needs to show the government that we care about our national language and support those that have taken it upon themselves to preserve it for the next generation.
Irish speakers are already fighting an uphill battle to keep the language alive. Pennies are spent on the provision of Irish language services (none of which are up to standard), the Gaeltacht areas are underfunded, undervalued and under-resourced. People complain about the 'Gaeltacht grant' which in reality amounts to less than €200 per person, per year, to live in an area otherwise forgotten by the State. The national broadcaster has next to no Irish language programming and TG4 is half the station it should be, fighting against major television powerhouses who rerun MTV shows and YouTube clips to ensnare the audience.
Not only is it difficult but there have been cases of the language being illegal in parts of the country. The Belfast telegraph reported that in March this year, the national treasurer of Sinn Féin Poblachtach Diarmuid Mac Dubhghlais was arrested and charged "under anti-terrorism legislation" by the PSNI for giving "his name and address in Irish when he was stopped by police". Legally, in the Republic, you have the right to speak to a guard as Gaeilge but I would not feel confident that it would not be seen as being 'difficult'.
Even if you don't care about Irish, you should respect the right of Irish citizens to their national language. The least you could do is appoint someone to the role that can understand it. Paypal wouldn't hire people without German for their German collections department but the Irish Taoiseach appoints someone without Irish as a junior minister for Gaeltacht Affairs. Republic of Telly couldn't even parody it, it's already so ridiculous]
.
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  #18  
Old 27-06-2015, 01:23 AM
ChrustyRing ChrustyRing is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rebelicecreamman View Post
Aontaim leat.

And who have driven that but the zealots, the self-appointed 'curators' of the language who have almost succeeded in killing the language off completely, at least until the advent of the Gaelscoil movement?

Imo, the borderline supremacist, language-snob attitude exemplified by these people is mirrored in people's attitude to the appointment of McHugh as minister.

Since when does one have to be a gaelgoir to administer the language?

Maybe a citizen, who is clearly able, but who was brutally failed by the education system, and by extension, the self-appointed 'owners' of the language, is EXACTLY the person who should be handed the stewardship of the language for a change.
An mbeifeá sásta dá gceapfaí duine gan aon tuiscint ar mhatamaitic mar Aire airgeadais?
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  #19  
Old 28-06-2015, 04:58 PM
Greenfinch Greenfinch is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ChrustyRing View Post
An mbeifeá sásta dá gceapfaí duine gan aon tuiscint ar mhatamaitic mar Aire airgeadais?
agus an mbeadh caint ar 'misneach' agus 'inspioráid'
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  #20  
Old 28-06-2015, 11:57 PM
ChrustyRing ChrustyRing is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Greenfinch View Post
agus an mbeadh caint ar 'misneach' agus 'inspioráid'
Supremacist, maths-snob attitude.
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