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  #5041  
Old 02-01-2014, 08:16 PM
polar bear polar bear is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greengrass View Post
Gavin would want to cop himself on. Dublin GAA is bigger than him and his edicts. Thousands of people would love to see CK hurling and thats more important than gavin's selfish interests.
Whats wrong with Gavin demanding total commitment to the team? We should be doing the same down here in Cork.

Only one team has retained an All Ireland in the last 20 years. Dublin need to keep total focus unless they want to end up like prvious champions. You can't do that by having fellas only giving half commitment because of hurling.
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  #5042  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:29 PM
Rabid Dub Rabid Dub is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greengrass View Post
Gavin would want to cop himself on. Dublin GAA is bigger than him and his edicts. Thousands of people would love to see CK hurling and thats more important than gavin's selfish interests.
Dublin is not a dual county. Never has been. Never will be. The average Dub would prefer to see the footballers win Sam, far, far more than they would the hurlers win Liam. Gavin set his stall out very clearly last year as to what his feelings were regarding dual players & how being one would negatively affect the commitment levels needed to be a part of the football panel. The county board and the players can hardly claim that any of this comes as a surprise. I can appreciate how a person from a hurling county or dual county would feel put out by that, but you can hardly expect a county to change its culture over night.

Last edited by Rabid Dub; 02-01-2014 at 10:44 PM..
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  #5043  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:35 AM
shez1987 shez1987 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rabid Dub View Post
Dublin is not a dual county. Never has been. Never will be. The average Dub would prefer to see the footballers win Sam, far, far more than they would the hurlers win Liam. Gavin set his stall out very clearly last year as to what his feelings were regarding dual players & how being one would negatively affect the commitment levels needed to be a part of the football panel. The county board and the players can hardly claim that any of this comes as a surprise. I can appreciate how a person from a hurling county or dual county would feel put out by that, but you can hardly expect a county to change its culture over night.
You are a dual county now, lad. Better get used to it.

Just because Jim Gavin doesn't allow Ciaran Kilkenny to play both in 2014, doesn't mean Dublin are not a dual county. That is a decision specific to Jim Gavin, not the county. The next football manager may take a more concessionary viewpoint and be happy to accommodate both?

When, not if, Dublin win a Liam McCarthy, the landscape will evolve again for the next generation coming through. As hurling becomes more successful in Dublin, you will have plenty of young lads playing both, but if forced to make a decision at some point, you will find some will choose hurling. Some who may otherwise have concentrated on football if hurling was weak. Future Dublin football managers will lose more potential Ciaran Kilkennys down the line to hurling before they ever even get a chance to offer an ultimatum. That's a dual county.

You will naturally have one code that is traditionally more successful and popular than the other. In Cork, hurling is the default dominant code. But over recent times, dual players have opted for football if pushed to commit to one. A scenario few could have foreseen ten years ago. If it can happen in Cork, it can happen in reverse in Dublin.

Welcome to the wonderful world of dual GAA counties. It took ye a while, but better late than never. Your summers are about to become a lot more expensive.

You will know you are a real dual county, when you have the 'I'm a football man, myself' brigade moaning in the pub about the hurlers under-achieving again or taking an underage footballer that could have something special.
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  #5044  
Old 03-01-2014, 01:05 AM
Rabid Dub Rabid Dub is offline
 
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Yes, ok, if you want to take how well the hurlers have done over the past couple of years, on paper, we are now technically a dual county. But in terms of what holds sway in the heart and minds of the average game going punter, or the priorities of the county board, hurling is still very much the poor relation. It will take a very long time and winning Liam a few dozen times, before the county board will ever put our football manager under the same kind of pressure than yours was to allow dual code players.

If some of your players committed to football over hurling, you would know best why that was. As an outsider, I'd hazard a guess that one of the reasons was because they wanted to be a part of a sport that has a nationwide following and appeal, as opposed to one that is only played at All Ireland level by 10-12 counties. There is no way that you are ever going to get Dublin lads choosing hurling over football because hurling is the biggest show in town.
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  #5045  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:17 AM
greengrass greengrass is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rabid Dub View Post
Yes, ok, if you want to take how well the hurlers have done over the past couple of years, on paper, we are now technically a dual county. But in terms of what holds sway in the heart and minds of the average game going punter, or the priorities of the county board, hurling is still very much the poor relation. It will take a very long time and winning Liam a few dozen times, before the county board will ever put our football manager under the same kind of pressure than yours was to allow dual code players.

If some of your players committed to football over hurling, you would know best why that was. As an outsider, I'd hazard a guess that one of the reasons was because they wanted to be a part of a sport that has a nationwide following and appeal, as opposed to one that is only played at All Ireland level by 10-12 counties. There is no way that you are ever going to get Dublin lads choosing hurling over football because hurling is the biggest show in town.
Hazard away there rabid. It was because the footballers were more successful and the same will happen in Dublin when hurlers do the same. Better get used to it.
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  #5046  
Old 03-01-2014, 10:40 AM
hans aus dtschl hans aus dtschl is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rabid Dub View Post
As an outsider, I'd hazard a guess that one of the reasons was because they wanted to be a part of a sport that has a nationwide following and appeal, as opposed to one that is only played at All Ireland level by 10-12 counties. There is no way that you are ever going to get Dublin lads choosing hurling over football because hurling is the biggest show in town.
I'd imagine it was nothing to do with national appeal. Probably more to do with local/internal issues than a sport's national status.
The hurling setup upset some lads. The football setup impressed them. The footballer's recent track record impressed them. Those are simple, critical issues for lads about to commit most of their time to their sport.

If they were looking for a wider audience, we'd have lost more lads to the foreign sports, not necessarily football.
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  #5047  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:52 PM
shez1987 shez1987 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rabid Dub View Post
Yes, ok, if you want to take how well the hurlers have done over the past couple of years, on paper, we are now technically a dual county. But in terms of what holds sway in the heart and minds of the average game going punter, or the priorities of the county board, hurling is still very much the poor relation. It will take a very long time and winning Liam a few dozen times, before the county board will ever put our football manager under the same kind of pressure than yours was to allow dual code players.
If young lads growing up in Cork were influenced by 'the hearts and minds of the average game going punter' or by 'the priorities of the county board' then no one would ever kick a football.

But the game continues to flourish at grass roots level because clubs of all grades throughout the county are excellent in promoting and developing gaelic football. As long as that remains the case then Cork will always produce quality footballers, regardless of how many bandwagoners attend inter-county matches or the whisical ways of the Cork County Board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Dub View Post
If some of your players committed to football over hurling, you would know best why that was. As an outsider, I'd hazard a guess that one of the reasons was because they wanted to be a part of a sport that has a nationwide following and appeal, as opposed to one that is only played at All Ireland level by 10-12 counties. There is no way that you are ever going to get Dublin lads choosing hurling over football because hurling is the biggest show in town.
Could be wrong but I doubt the 'national following and appeal' of football over hurling played any part of their decision-making. I'd say the reason they committed to football was they saw more opportunity to succeed in football, and quiet simply they happen to be very good footballers. Why wouldn't they want to excel in a sport they can be dominant in and have practiced from a young age? Aidan Walsh picked football because he prefers playing it. Sometimes the decision-making is that simple.

Dublin's hurling development isn't going to stall now. Over the next 10 to 15 years you are going to continue to develop hundreds of dual players at underage level. Many will eventually decide to concentrate on football but increasingly you are going to have more and more picking hurling.

Jim Gavin may not facilitate 'dual players' at inter-county level but you are very much a 'dual county'. The Dublin hurling management may not have access to Ciaran Killenny this year but in the future Dublin football is also going to lose potential stars to their hurling counterparts.
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  #5048  
Old 03-01-2014, 06:46 PM
Youghal Exile Youghal Exile is offline
 
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Originally Posted by shez1987 View Post
If young lads growing up in Cork were influenced by 'the hearts and minds of the average game going punter' or by 'the priorities of the county board' then no one would ever kick a football.

But the game continues to flourish at grass roots level because clubs of all grades throughout the county are excellent in promoting and developing gaelic football. As long as that remains the case then Cork will always produce quality footballers, regardless of how many bandwagoners attend inter-county matches or the whisical ways of the Cork County Board.



Could be wrong but I doubt the 'national following and appeal' of football over hurling played any part of their decision-making. I'd say the reason they committed to football was they saw more opportunity to succeed in football, and quiet simply they happen to be very good footballers. Why wouldn't they want to excel in a sport they can be dominant in and have practiced from a young age? Aidan Walsh picked football because he prefers playing it. Sometimes the decision-making is that simple.

Dublin's hurling development isn't going to stall now. Over the next 10 to 15 years you are going to continue to develop hundreds of dual players at underage level. Many will eventually decide to concentrate on football but increasingly you are going to have more and more picking hurling.

Jim Gavin may not facilitate 'dual players' at inter-county level but you are very much a 'dual county'. The Dublin hurling management may not have access to Ciaran Killenny this year but in the future Dublin football is also going to lose potential stars to their hurling counterparts.
Good post it makes me worried the way Dublin got their act together with regards to hurling development and having a vision as to how to go about implementing a plan.As well as that they were able to look for and source funding for their hurling development programs.We were nearly dumped out of the championship in both codes by Dublin this year.Compare the way the Dublin county board do things and conduct their affairs to the cronyism, nepotism, short sighted, agenda driven and tunnel visioned approach that our boys take when it comes to running their day to day affairs.Were only in the ha'penny place tbh.It's like were still stuck in 1954.
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  #5049  
Old 03-01-2014, 09:32 PM
Rabid Dub Rabid Dub is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greengrass View Post
Hazard away there rabid. It was because the footballers were more successful and the same will happen in Dublin when hurlers do the same. Better get used to it.
Get used to what? The footballers ain't exactly in the doldrums these days. The hurlers winning the league in 2011 was great. Winning Leinster in 2013 was great too, but they have yet to win Liam, which is what matters most imo. The footballers have won Sam twice in that period and, the signs are encouraging that they will continue to do well. That is and will continue to hurt the numbers of players who are committing to hurling. Anthony Daly admits this.

If I was wrong on why Cork players committed to football, that's fair enough. It was only a guess anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that the dynamics of our two counties are very different.
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  #5050  
Old 16-01-2014, 03:05 PM
Youghal Exile Youghal Exile is offline
 
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Maybe this is a sign that i need to be taken away by the men in the white coats but dare i say it if Limerick can contain the hype levels when they go on a run and if they sort out the backs and midfield then they could challenge.Declan Hannon (even though he had a nightmare against Clare) Kevin Downes Shane Dowling and Graeme Mulcahy are very good forwards.When you think about it everything that could have went wrong for Limerick went wrong in Croke Park last August against Clare.They missed some shocking frees!Yet a losing margin of 7 points doesn't seem to be that bad when it was a day when everything went right for Clare.There's a lot of hype in Waterford over the minor all ireland and it's reminding me of the hype in Limerick over the u21 all irelands!They have a platform there though.The senior team has a very good half back line and midfield with guy's like Brick Walsh Kevin Moran Stephen Molumphy and the underrated Shane O'Sullivan Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley.Im not sure that Waterford have enough firepower up front though and free taking is an issue.Waterford just shoot too many wides in matches.
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Sean Og pure Norrie, pure Cork, and pure class. Red&Blue has made an absolute flute of himself again.
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