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  #491  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:17 PM
CaptainSensible CaptainSensible is offline
 
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Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post
I think that's the key difference between the sort of neo-liberalism you see on the right in the US and the free market social democrats in Europe.

In Europe, we're not afraid of using private companies to pay for our public services, but funded out of the public purse*.

I think the best way to think about it is as follows, if you need a public service, what you want is the best balance of cost, quality and speed of delivery. In some situations, lowest cost is appropriate, in others, quality is the most appropriate and in others, speed. As every good project manager knows, you can only have two of the above.

Now, if it's properly focussed and professionally handled, I have no doubt public services can deliver quality and speed, potentially at a bit of a lower cost than private services, if the same management methods are used as in the private sector.

But in general, that tends not to happen too often for three main reasons.
Firstly, there's a view that the public sector needs to be more "ethical" to workers and thus offer better benefits to workers, raising costs in the long run.
Secondly, without the pressures of the market, the impetus for change and improvement is significant diminished.
Finally, public institutions tend to be subject to the whim of politicians, for better or worse. Occasionally, it can be good, when it's identified that, say, waiting lists are too long, and more money should be spent on them. But usually, it's pretty negatively disruptive, punctuated by things like strikes and battles over funding. Having priorities embodied in contracts that need to be renegotiated should change in direction need to be imposed, puts a barrier between the political system and service delivery.


*Incidentally, at the risk of raising hackles, this was Tony Blair's "Third Way"
I'd add another reason and would actually place it above the others namely the job for life situation coupled with promotions being based on longevity as opposed to merit/ability. This is basically saying to the worker, now that you have a job it is up to you whether you contribute or not and regardless of what you choose it won't make a blind bit of difference to your future progress. Obviously most people won't take the complete piss but it does create an environment of stasis as opposed to creativity and change. Also people that have the best intentions may change after a while if they see their workmate doing fuck-all and eventually they decide to behave likewise because the consequences don't exist.
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  #492  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:31 PM
One One is offline
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Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post
I think that's the key difference between the sort of neo-liberalism you see on the right in the US and the free market social democrats in Europe.

In Europe, we're not afraid of using private companies to pay for our public services, but funded out of the public purse*.

I think the best way to think about it is as follows, if you need a public service, what you want is the best balance of cost, quality and speed of delivery. In some situations, lowest cost is appropriate, in others, quality is the most appropriate and in others, speed. As every good project manager knows, you can only have two of the above.

Now, if it's properly focussed and professionally handled, I have no doubt public services can deliver quality and speed, potentially at a bit of a lower cost than private services, if the same management methods are used as in the private sector.

But in general, that tends not to happen too often for three main reasons.
Firstly, there's a view that the public sector needs to be more "ethical" to workers and thus offer better benefits to workers, raising costs in the long run.
Secondly, without the pressures of the market, the impetus for change and improvement is significant diminished.
Finally, public institutions tend to be subject to the whim of politicians, for better or worse. Occasionally, it can be good, when it's identified that, say, waiting lists are too long, and more money should be spent on them. But usually, it's pretty negatively disruptive, punctuated by things like strikes and battles over funding. Having priorities embodied in contracts that need to be renegotiated should change in direction need to be imposed, puts a barrier between the political system and service delivery.


*Incidentally, at the risk of raising hackles, this was Tony Blair's "Third Way"
Stick up some A4 bus timetables you boring cunt.
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  #493  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:41 PM
Gary_Duff Gary_Duff is offline
 
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I'll tell you what, Dan proper fancies it tonight.
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  #494  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:49 PM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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Stick up some A4 bus timetables you boring cunt.
How about go fuck yourself? Does that work for you instead?
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  #495  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:50 PM
One One is offline
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Originally Posted by How bad boy View Post
How about go fuck yourself? Does that work for you instead?
Calm down m8, I constantly have my way with myself lolzers.
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  #496  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:54 PM
How bad boy How bad boy is offline
 
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Calm down m8, I constantly have my way with myself lolzers.
I'm not the one with the reputation for windmilling at all and sundry. I take it tonight is another one of those "pick a random fight on the Internet" nights?

Off to bed, so will have to read the meltdown in the morning.
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  #497  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:55 PM
Gary_Duff Gary_Duff is offline
 
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A right ruck developing here.
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  #498  
Old 18-03-2016, 11:55 PM
One One is offline
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I'll tell you what, Dan proper fancies it tonight.
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  #499  
Old 26-03-2016, 11:45 AM
TweeGlitch TweeGlitch is offline
 
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