Go Back   Peoples Republic Of Cork Discussion Forums > Current & Local Affairs Forum
User Name
Password
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:06 PM
Corcaigh32 Corcaigh32 is offline
Senior PROC Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Corcaigh
Posts: 32,086
Default

I don't think there are loyalists here. Certainly IRA critics and some SF critics by extension.
The problem with this topic is that whatabouttery is always just around the corner.
The only distinction I would draw in this instance is that the collusion is between loyalist paramilitaries and the British establishment in the North, in this case the RUC. In reality it highlights the plight of nationalist and republicans and while in no way condoning or justifying republican violence, goes to show that it wasn't just the opposing community they had to deal with but the people nominally there to provide them with government and policing and security.

Edit - and the Earl's post above proves my point.

6 fellas watching a USA 94 match or the people who were disappeared. There should be no equivalence or whatabouttery here. It was all wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:19 PM
Muintir Muintir is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
I don't think there are loyalists here. Certainly IRA critics and some SF critics by extension.
The problem with this topic is that whatabouttery is always just around the corner.
The only distinction I would draw in this instance is that the collusion is between loyalist paramilitaries and the British establishment in the North, in this case the RUC. In reality it highlights the plight of nationalist and republicans and while in no way condoning or justifying republican violence, goes to show that it wasn't just the opposing community they had to deal with but the people nominally there to provide them with government and policing and security.

Edit - and the Earl's post above proves my point.

6 fellas watching a USA 94 match or the people who were disappeared. There should be no equivalence or whatabouttery here. It was all wrong.

Well at least the RA eliminated their informers in contrast to the action of the government...who imported arms for their touts.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:29 PM
TheEarlofPearl TheEarlofPearl is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 7,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post

Edit - and the Earl's post above proves my point.

6 fellas watching a USA 94 match or the people who were disappeared. There should be no equivalence or whatabouttery here. It was all wrong.
Exactly
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:30 PM
TheEarlofPearl TheEarlofPearl is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 7,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muintir View Post
Well at least the RA eliminated their informers in contrast to the action of the government...who imported arms for their touts.
I am sure that is comfort to Jean McConville's family.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:35 PM
Muintir Muintir is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarlofPearl View Post
I am sure that is comfort to Jean McConville's family.
I have no doubt that you will apply the same comment to the victims of Dublin/Monaghan, Finucane & Nelson families & all of the victims of the British murder machine in Ireland.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-06-2016, 06:46 PM
TheEarlofPearl TheEarlofPearl is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 7,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muintir View Post
I have no doubt that you will apply the same comment to the victims of Dublin/Monaghan, Finucane & Nelson families & all of the victims of the British murder machine in Ireland.
Of course I will but I not a supporter of SinnFein talking out my hole when they were responsible for half the shite up there.
You just lost
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-06-2016, 08:14 PM
TonyCork80 TonyCork80 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
I don't think there are loyalists here. Certainly IRA critics and some SF critics by extension.
The problem with this topic is that whatabouttery is always just around the corner.
The only distinction I would draw in this instance is that the collusion is between loyalist paramilitaries and the British establishment in the North, in this case the RUC. In reality it highlights the plight of nationalist and republicans and while in no way condoning or justifying republican violence, goes to show that it wasn't just the opposing community they had to deal with but the people nominally there to provide them with government and policing and security.

Edit - and the Earl's post above proves my point.

6 fellas watching a USA 94 match or the people who were disappeared. There should be no equivalence or whatabouttery here. It was all wrong.
Excellent post.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-06-2016, 09:07 PM
strict66 strict66 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 17,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
For every time collusion is proved in an inquiry there are countless other instances which go without comment. Will an RUC officer, present or past see jail time for it? Not a hope.
Villiers is, as you would expect, very Tory on her views on the North and the peace process. The Tory government have, without any protest from Enda, deprioritised the peace process and actively sought to undermine the institutions by decreasing the block grant.

Long and short of this is, the families of the victims now know as fact what they have known in their hearts all along. After that, Brexit will take care of the news cycle on this and it will be forgotten about in a couple of days.
But hang on a second C32-y Steady your high horse fella.
Is this not a typical example of the murky waters that Northern Ireland waded in during the the troubles. There are countless examples of families eating humble pie who have lost loved ones either directly or indirectly to either loyalist or republican paramilitaries, The British army , The British secret services , The Irish state and even perhaps the Irish defense forces (I can't recall a clear cut contemporary example tbh).

Point being C-32y it's all very well getting indignant about ex - RUC officers never seeing the inside of a cell, but don't forget the Good Friday agreement which is sort of a holy grail for you. That allowed inmates free who in some cases were serving life sentences for the mass murder of civilians. Many of those guys who carried out unspeakable acts of terror on in many cases innocent civilians and non combatants are free men. NUTS! So you cribbing about Nordy Plod and Paras haven't never done time is frankly laughable.

But as you are quick to point when the argument arises about Republican Paramilitary violence during the troubles is that it is all in the past and that post Good Friday former paramilitaries have made the transformation to socially democratic politicians. Adams and Co are not be quizzed about their links to and indeed direct involvement in PIRA activities during the troubles. Nope they are to be applauded for bring peace to Northern Ireland post Good Friday. There is of course credit due to stopping carnage. Who could argue with the result that is present day mostly peaceful Northern Ireland.

But doesn't the Good Friday Agreement wipe the slate clean for the Unionist Paramilitaries and indeed even the RUC and by extension the Brits? C'mon C32-y look who Mortin could have a chuckle with and look who Sinn Fein share an assembly with , and for the most part function with. Surely what is good for the goose is good for gander?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-06-2016, 09:12 PM
rebelicecreamman rebelicecreamman is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcaigh32 View Post
I don't think there are loyalists here. Certainly IRA critics and some SF critics by extension.
The problem with this topic is that whatabouttery is always just around the corner.
The only distinction I would draw in this instance is that the collusion is between loyalist paramilitaries and the British establishment in the North, in this case the RUC. In reality it highlights the plight of nationalist and republicans and while in no way condoning or justifying republican violence, goes to show that it wasn't just the opposing community they had to deal with but the people nominally there to provide them with government and policing and security.

Edit - and the Earl's post above proves my point.

6 fellas watching a USA 94 match or the people who were disappeared. There should be no equivalence or whatabouttery here. It was all wrong.
Rebelicecreamman approves this message.(broadly).

I do wonder at what point the protagonists in NI have to take ownership of the process and run with it, though. I thought that time was long since past.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-06-2016, 09:37 PM
Corcaigh32 Corcaigh32 is offline
Senior PROC Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Corcaigh
Posts: 32,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by strict66 View Post
But hang on a second C32-y Steady your high horse fella.
Is this not a typical example of the murky waters that Northern Ireland waded in during the the troubles. There are countless examples of families eating humble pie who have lost loved ones either directly or indirectly to either loyalist or republican paramilitaries, The British army , The British secret services , The Irish state and even perhaps the Irish defense forces (I can't recall a clear cut contemporary example tbh).

Point being C-32y it's all very well getting indignant about ex - RUC officers never seeing the inside of a cell, but don't forget the Good Friday agreement which is sort of a holy grail for you. That allowed inmates free who in some cases were serving life sentences for the mass murder of civilians. Many of those guys who carried out unspeakable acts of terror on in many cases innocent civilians and non combatants are free men. NUTS! So you cribbing about Nordy Plod and Paras haven't never done time is frankly laughable.

But as you are quick to point when the argument arises about Republican Paramilitary violence during the troubles is that it is all in the past and that post Good Friday former paramilitaries have made the transformation to socially democratic politicians. Adams and Co are not be quizzed about their links to and indeed direct involvement in PIRA activities during the troubles. Nope they are to be applauded for bring peace to Northern Ireland post Good Friday. There is of course credit due to stopping carnage. Who could argue with the result that is present day mostly peaceful Northern Ireland.

But doesn't the Good Friday Agreement wipe the slate clean for the Unionist Paramilitaries and indeed even the RUC and by extension the Brits? C'mon C32-y look who Mortin could have a chuckle with and look who Sinn Fein share an assembly with , and for the most part function with. Surely what is good for the goose is good for gander?
Did you not read my post?
I specifically said it's all wrong.
I agree with you entirely.
What I usually do is bring balance when it's on one side. In this case I did the same from the other side.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump










All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All forum comments are the sole responsibility and property of forum users. PeoplesRepublicOfCork.com and its sponsors disclaim all liability for content posted by users of the forum. PeoplesRepublicOfCork.com and its sponsors do not necessarily share the views expressed in this forum. Use the report post system to have comments considered for edit or deletion. All users are IP logged. Website hosted by Hostrocket USA.