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  #31  
Old 08-04-2009, 12:49 AM
afeencalleddan afeencalleddan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KD Langer View Post
dan, two of those teams won the tournament. and one got to the final.maybe they were just good teams?



i'm not saying tactics don't have their place. just that the quality of your players is far more important IMO.
Djimi Traore would love you for that.

What achievements have a lot of the lads who played in those teams that undid Unired got apart from what they achieved in those seasons? Most of them were one season wonders because for that one season they were well organised underdogs. Knockout football at the highest level is about more than the quality on the pitch. It's about exposing weakness moreso than outclassing. In some years pure football wins out but it's simple to look back at recent winners and find more artisans than artists.
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  #32  
Old 08-04-2009, 01:22 AM
zudo zudo is offline
 
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The premership only took over financially in Europe in the past few years.. sky tv money , huge world audience(Asia) etc. and Man Utd can take a lot of credit for this (note the Fergie factor). As previous posters have said he didn't always have a great financial advantage in Europe. The domination of English clubs is only becoming very apparent now.

In the past it was always easier to attract good/great players to Italy and Spain, due to the climate, money etc, and many players today would still chose Spain as their number one choice of destination. Big money is usually the main factor to intice big name players to England.

So I'd say whatever advantages Fergie has today, he has earned himself.

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Originally Posted by afeencalleddan View Post
Don't be so naive. The higher you step up in class, the more you need tactics. That's why United have had such epic fails in Europe. Monaco, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Porto, etc. etc. Did they have better players than United? No, they were just well drilled and better set up to expose United's weaknesses.
So you're saying all the managers of those teams were better than Ferguson, or just tactically superior? Those teams were champions in their respective Countries and were not exactly minnows like playing a Southampton on a Saturday afternoon. Ok, maybe they didn't have the financial clout of United, but neither did Fulham a fortnight ago. So does that make Roy Hodgson a master tactician?

Last edited by zudo; 08-04-2009 at 02:28 AM..
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  #33  
Old 08-04-2009, 03:46 AM
shamoverhere shamoverhere is offline
 
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Just in the interests of balance now, you understand.
Bless..
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2009, 03:57 AM
The Zurich Connection The Zurich Connection is offline
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As a neutral, i have to say that Ferguson is found wanting time and again against any decent European side that he meets. Only that he holds a huge financial advanatge over most I'd say he'd lose far more than he wins. He still might get through with his squad that cost 10 times more than the one he is playing, but the point will always remain. It'll be the little * that goes next to his obituary.

Great old school motivator and bully, but when faced with someone with a bit of nous he invariably collapases. Its more than a mental block, I genuinely believe he doesn't have the stuff when faced with a man with a better football mind, the piss stained old bollox.

Am i right or am i right?


For once Micko... you are spot on.

He is a checkbook manager... nothing more.


Blog home Quarter-final, first legTired Manchester United in danger of collapse after shunning home comfortsDespite their huge squad, Sir Alex Ferguson's men look dangerously like a team who have shot their bolt
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Dejected Manchester United players look bewildered after Porto's late equaliser shifted the balance of the tie in their favour. Photograph: Mike Egerton/EMPICS Sport/PA Photos

Winning is a desirable habit but it's less advisable to become too attached to one particular method. A quirk of the Uefa computer means that Manchester United have become accustomed to playing the away leg first in Europe and that fact was painfully apparent in their draw with Porto at Old Trafford tonight.

Like a cricket team who are much more successful when batting second, United seemed to have no awareness of how to set a target, as you are supposed to do if the first leg is at home. Would 2-1 be acceptable? 1-0? United struggled to calculate the appropriate degree of risk, and the consequence was an infectiously ramshackle contest: unusually in the modern game, both teams wanted to score one more than the other rather than concede one fewer. Never mind a victory: in the end, United were fortunate to get 2-2.

There were strong shades of another 2-2 draw in the first leg of the semi-final against Bayer Leverkusen in 2002. As then, an injury-affected United were unfocused and, perhaps, subconsciously complacent. Certainly the crowd, a whinging shower who gave one of the worst displays ever, seemed to think they just had to turn up and swing a boot on the seat in front as their side won 24-0.

United went out on away goals in the second leg of that Leverkusen match and, strangely, it is a decade since they won a European knockout tie in which the first leg was at home; even then they had to win in Juventus to go through. Since then they have played 14 knockout ties; in only four of those did they play at home in the first leg, and they went out each time. By contrast, United have won the last six matches in which they have played the first leg away from home. It's a nice fit for a team who are so capable on the counter-attack, but having to dictate play from the start seemed to frazzle their brains.

The confusion was confounded by a palpable nervousness that was supposed to have been blown away by Federico Macheda against Aston Villa on Sunday. If anything United were worse tonight. In the opening 30 minutes certain players, particularly Michael Carrick and Paul Scholes, looked like they had the yips. It was unusual enough to see those two misplace passes; that they were misplacing them by yards was utterly surreal.

Rank defending is becoming a more familiar sight when United play: in the first half an hour they were remarkably incompetent, and should have been at least 3-1 down to an excellent and admirably intrepid Porto side. Up until they hosted Liverpool last month they had conceded seven goals in the previous games; since then they have conceded 10 in four.

Injuries and suspensions do not help but, even with such a powerful squad, United are starting to look dangerously like a side who have shot their bolt in this most congested of seasons. Already they have played 53 games, with at least another 10 to come. Carrick looks completely gone, while Scholes is in the sort of slump that, at his age, tends to prompt career obituaries. Gary Neville's should have been written a year ago.

Such fatigue is often the case at the business end of a long season. United limped over the line in their Treble season; Arsenal's Invincibles won only four of their last 12 games in all competitions; Blackburn's champions lost three of their last five. "When it goes," Ferguson said as that Blackburn side started to wobble, "it goes quickly, and there is nothing you can do about it." Those words look truer than ever now.
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2009, 06:38 AM
mightyquark mightyquark is offline
 
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Stick to the page 3 thread in the Langers forum Lamps.
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:07 AM
Rebelred Rebelred is offline
 
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Tactics are grand once you're players can implement them successfully. United couldn't last night, Porto put in a great stint and got the very least they deserved, 2 away goals and a draw
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:13 AM
Lamps Lamps is offline
 
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Blockbuster.
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  #38  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:38 AM
mightyquark mightyquark is offline
 
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Blockbuster.
Not really..your Page 3 girl thread in the Langers forum is a far bigger Blockbuster.
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  #39  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:42 AM
Lamps Lamps is offline
 
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Lamps is a Liverpool man, IMO.
Low blow EbY.

I'm in the business of exposure and rattling.

QPR are my team.
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  #40  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:43 AM
Lamps Lamps is offline
 
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Not really..your Page 3 girl thread in the Langers forum is a far bigger Blockbuster.
If ManYoo implode, this place will see a rugby world cup style rattling. It will be epic
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