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  #1  
Old 21-03-2007, 12:45 PM
Poc Fada Poc Fada is offline
 
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Default Deportation of Foreigners as an election issue

Anyone hear Aine Ni Conaill from the Immigration Control Platform on Vincent Browne last night?

For anyone that doesn't know ICP aim to reduce the number of immigrants coming into Ireland. They have a particular grievance with asylum seekers who they claim, are being welcomed into Ireland with an open door policy.

Apparently only 392 deportations have taken place since the late ninties.

On the flip side, being an asylum seeker in Ireland ain't much fun. You get your bed and board and a whopping 19 euro a week. You can't work so you sit around all day. I walk past the centre on Wellington Road regularly and they all look withdrawn and absolutely bored to tears. A pool table is about the extent of their entertainment.

Thinking about it this morning I actually think the insanely long time they spend in this limbo should actually seperate genuine asylum seekers from the one's who are chancing their arm. If your life is in danger in your own country youre not going to go back regardless of how long you stay in Ireland.

ICP get hot under the collar about cross-EU immigration as well (read: Poles). The one thing I notice about Poles however, and this goes for most european immigrants, is that they love their country of origin, they are aiming to buy property back there and are only a 150 euro flight away from getting back there if the economy suddenely takes a dive and they all lose their jobs. Poland isn't fucked up like Africa.

Vincent Browne asked Aine Ni Conaill what she thought she thought was a reasonable percentage of non nationals living here. She said 5% making her arguement sound reasonable (apparently we're heading towards 10%). He then asked here what she felt about the Irish going abroad to the U.S. and Britain to which she replied, "the IPC is an organisation. It doesn't have feelings".

VB: but on a personal level, how do you feel about it?
AC: Vincent, Im here as PRO of the organisation. An organisation doesn't have feelings.
We are single issue party. I wouldn't give you the time of day as a person.

There was a long awkward silence before VB laughed and continued.
Radio PR lesson number one - do not insult the presenter.

Bad PR move number two followed soon after as VB was presenting a red rag to a bull. Another participant in the debate was a Nigerian woman called Benedict from Dundalk who is lobbying for immigrants. While she was speaking she seemed to be dodging VB's question about how she ended up here herself finally conceeding that she applied for asylum, had a child here and was granted permission to stay. One debate point to Aine.

Instead of leaving it at that however, Ni Conaill continued to lambast her repeating "she shouldn't even be in the country!". VB asked her if an Irish citizen (i.e. the Nigerian woman's child) should be deported. In so many words she said the child should be. Caught in a trap she started firing out a range of childish arguments and really started to lose it.

I'm always very wary of taking the easy options and dubbing these people racists. But slowly as the show went on, you could sense the absolute outrage in her voice at the invasion of foreigners. I don't think she's worried about the country, immigration just bugs her.

I wouldn't dream of giving ICP a vote but I still think a sensible debate on the issues would be worthwhile. I don't like the idea of deportation but I also don't like the idea of the country being a known easy target for social welfare claimants or the idea of sending people back to fucked up places.

What do citizens of the PROC think?
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  #2  
Old 24-03-2007, 10:51 PM
norvackxx norvackxx is offline
 
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I personally wouldn't vote for a single issue party and the fact that Ni Chonaill has been around for a long time and has got nowhere probably shows that she's a bit of a fruitcake. I actually did part of my dissertation in fianl year of college on the BNP and the ICP. Back then the ICP had a statement on their website stating something like "people with notions of racial superiority and/or discrimination or not welcome in our party". That said, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't racist. They are defo not as aggressive as the BNP. To assess whether she's racist or not you really have to come up with a definition of what racism is.

That said, I'm not going to stand on the fence here, I'm definitely anti-immigration. I hate the bullshit pedalled by some that "it's great we have such a multi-cultural country". What's so great about it. Back when I did my disertation in 2003 immigration didnt bother me one iota but it has accelerated so much lately that I do now look on it with a very negative attitude. Because such large numbers of people are coming to Ireland from the same countries, when they get here they stick together and hence don't assimilate.

For example, a couple of Polish girls used to drink in the pub I used to work in before the accesstion states joined and they integrated really well. They made the effort and so did all the locals in the pub. They basically had to cos they were in a minority and people were willing to make an effort cos there was only two of them!!. However, since accession those two girls now very much hang around with their compatriots and don't interact with the Irish as much anymore. I dont blame the girls ( I would do the same myself) but it illustrates the point that when immigration happens in such large numbers assimilation is impossible.

What worries me most of all is that an Irish underclass will develop. I live in a very multi-ethnic part of London (mainly blacks and Asians) and walking home late at night the only people I worry about bumping into is Ethnic English whites. I think that because a number of sociological phenomena, the mass immigration in England has caused native working class whites to become total scumbags. From reading the news in Ireland and walking the streets of Dublin and seeing how scummy working class Dubs are compared to 10 years ago, I'd say Ireland is going to go the same way.

When mass-immigration occurs in a country usually the immigrants occupy lower social strata. The presence of immigrants also tends to lead to a larger gap between the rich and the poor of the country because wages become lowered and businesses thrive as a result (this has already happened in Ireland, big style). Those working class natives that are left behind feel pretty pissed off that they missed the boat. I'm not going to go into the reasons behind my next assumption cos it's too complicated from a sociological viewpoint and I dont have all the answers but here it is anyway. As a result of missing the aforementioned boat the working class natives become involved in much higher levels of scobism than they would have had the society they lived in been more egalitarian.

PS my signature is meant in jest.
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  #3  
Old 13-04-2007, 12:11 PM
Poc Fada Poc Fada is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norvackxx View Post

That said, I'm not going to stand on the fence here, I'm definitely anti-immigration. I hate the bullshit pedalled by some that "it's great we have such a multi-cultural country". What's so great about it. Back when I did my disertation in 2003 immigration didnt bother me one iota but it has accelerated so much lately that I do now look on it with a very negative attitude. Because such large numbers of people are coming to Ireland from the same countries, when they get here they stick together and hence don't assimilate.

For example, a couple of Polish girls used to drink in the pub I used to work in before the accesstion states joined and they integrated really well. They made the effort and so did all the locals in the pub. They basically had to cos they were in a minority and people were willing to make an effort cos there was only two of them!!. However, since accession those two girls now very much hang around with their compatriots and don't interact with the Irish as much anymore. I dont blame the girls ( I would do the same myself) but it illustrates the point that when immigration happens in such large numbers assimilation is impossible.
That's an interesting observation. I know a few poles, most of them on the minimum wage dont like going to pubs. They prefer to have vodka parties in their apartments. This is a cultural difference however so its not so easy to say they should all come down to the pub for the craic. Trying going on the piss in Cork when you're on 8 euro an hour!

The point about them all coming from one or two countries is a good one but we're probably dependent on economic conditions in those countries, level of English etc and also the actual size of them. Poland is well known and respected for churning out very good trades people, whereas other EU countries have different strong points hence the influx.

Nigeria and Poland dominate immigraton because there's simply more of them. I agree that Romania and Bulgaria should be kept at arms length for the time being until we know what's going to happen with our economy.

I still think that eastern europeans can easily go home if unemployment starts rising. Less than 10% of them have dependents.

I do worry a bit about the sharp rise in population and the strain on services and resrouces. Creaking water mains all over the country have to be replaced. Developers are lashing up estates without proper facilities - tapping into already over loaded water and sewer systems for example.
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  #4  
Old 24-09-2019, 06:32 PM
CJ Poogan CJ Poogan is offline
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Bump bump bumpity bump
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  #5  
Old 24-09-2019, 09:55 PM
sloblock sloblock is offline
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Originally Posted by CJ Poogan View Post
Bump bump bumpity bump
Why?
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  #6  
Old 24-09-2019, 11:19 PM
Bard Bard is offline
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Originally Posted by sloblock View Post
Why?
Coz he is sooooooo edgy.
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  #7  
Old 25-09-2019, 07:25 AM
CJ Poogan CJ Poogan is offline
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Originally Posted by sloblock View Post
Why?
12 years on...thats why.

Attitudes have changed
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  #8  
Old 25-09-2019, 11:25 AM
sloblock sloblock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Poogan View Post
12 years on...thats why.

Attitudes have changed
What attitudes? Whose attitudes? And on this topic specifically? How do you know this?

Please tell on.
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  #9  
Old 26-09-2019, 10:00 PM
Drucker Drucker is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CJ Poogan View Post
12 years on...thats why.

Attitudes have changed
Fuck off.
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  #10  
Old 27-09-2019, 05:50 AM
CJ Poogan CJ Poogan is offline
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fuck off.
😉
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