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  #1  
Old 26-02-2011, 03:22 AM
delzer delzer is offline
 
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Default Interesting article on ticket prices and Ticketmaster

What kind of crazy fucked up world do we live in where acts utilize paperless ticketing to benefit their fans, to make sure those who really care can get inside the building at a fair price, and these same fans think they're getting screwed and want the right to a paper ticket? StubHub has been e-mailing its patrons all day the following message: ______________ Dear _____, As you read this, companies like Ticketmaster are working to implement a restrictive paperless ticketing system that could deprive you of your essential rights as a fan. With restrictive paperless ticketing, you pay for your ticket - but you don't own it. The transfer of your ticket is controlled by the company you bought it from. This means you may not be able to give your extra tickets to a friend, sell them to another fan, or even donate them to a charity. This could also mean the end of competition in the ticketing market, making it so companies like Ticketmaster could charge whatever fees they wanted and you'd have no alternative but to pay. Fortunately, we can fight this. The Fan Freedom Project was created to give fans like you a platform to voice your outrage toward restrictive paperless ticketing, and to learn what measures you can take to protect your rights. We've signed on to support the cause. And we hope you'll lend your voice to the fight today by registering at www.fanfreedom.org. Sincerely, The StubHub Team ______________


This is so fucked up I almost don't know where to begin. No one trusts Ticketmaster, so it can't take its own ads. It's like Mubarak protesting he's changed. But it's not about Ticketmaster changing, it's about Ticketmaster doing what the acts say. Ticketmaster is not a rogue company out to screw the fans. Sure, we can argue all day long about their fees, and I've got no problem with competition, but so many of those fees have got nothing to do with Ticketmaster whatsoever. They're instituted by the promoter or the building in the name of profit, because the acts' deals are so heinous. It's a subterfuge to gain profit, these fees, which Ticketmaster gladly takes the blame for. So can we put to rest the fiction that the problem is TICKETMASTER???!! So let's start with the acts. They want the fees so it makes them look good.

Look, I charge almost nothing! You're paying double face value because of big bad Ticketmaster! The real story is the promoter can't make a profit at face value, he'd go out of business, but the act would rather you blame the businessman than the "artist". And then there are acts that scalp their own tickets and/or get kickbacks themselves from Ticketmaster fees. And Ticketmaster only puts on sale what the act and promoter tells them to. Ticketmaster doesn't hold back seats, the act and promoter do! And then the buildings, so often cutting themselves in with "facility fees", hold back seats too, some to resell, others for season ticket holders, and this is seemingly impossible to stop and the end result of all the above? YOU CAN'T GET A GOOD TICKET! So you go to the scalper and overpay to get inside the building. But what if the act was on your side? That's what paperless is all about. Making sure you get a seat, and making sure that the act gets all the profit. You do want the act to get the profit, right? Or would you really rather it go to StubHub or the broker? So if we go to paperless, resellers are fucked.


So like a coal company lobbying to blow up mountaintops so that you can get power, StubHub is telling you to eliminate paperless for your own good. Huh? You see if we start conserving, if we go to alternative energy sources, the coal and oil companies are screwed. So, like the tobacco companies they tell you there's no problem with their behavior, it's actually good for you! Huh? The car companies eliminated the trolleys in Los Angeles for their own damn profit. This isn't a theory, it's documented. But if the Red Cars still existed, I'd be able to get downtown faster than driving, even if it was still the original hundred year old system! This e-mail is all about StubHub's self-interest, not yours. Do you think Goldman Sachs is on your side? I have never ever resold a ticket in my life. Not only because I'm not an asshole looking to profit on the back of the act, BUT BECAUSE I WANT TO GO TO THE SHOW! That's why you're buying a ticket, right? Because you're a fan and want to be inside the building!


If you're buying to resell... You'll ultimately get screwed, like day traders, you can't compete with the professionals. And you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. In my life have I been unable to go to a show? Sure, fewer than five times. AND I GAVE MY TICKETS AWAY! Maybe because tickets didn't used to cost an arm and a leg. But truly, having unused tickets was not such a problem. The freedom of paper tickets? THAT'S THE FREEDOM TO BE SCREWED BY RESELLERS! So who's left out? The rich... Who want to overpay to be at the event of the season and are not real fans. And people who are casual fans. Come on. You'll wait all night to get inside the building and now you're complaining that you can't resell your paper tickets, which ultimately leaves you completely out of the building or overpaying to get inside? Paperless ticketing is the best thing to happen to fans in eons. And if you don't know this, you're ignoranT


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Old 22-02-2012, 08:00 PM
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Old 15-04-2013, 11:22 AM
delzer delzer is offline
 
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So now you know who gets some of those excessive Ticketmaster fees….

Papers lodged in the High Court in the case over the management of the Electric Picnic have brought the issue of Ticketmaster rebates to light.

…Yes, the promoter

Yesterday’s Irish edition of the Sunday Times carried a colourful story about the comings and goings around the ongoing court case about who controls what when it comes to the Electric Picnic. But in the midst of that story by Mark Paul, there’s also reference to something many in the industry have known for years, but which few have been able to prove: payments from ticketing agency Ticketmaster to promoters in the shape of rebates. We first raised this issue on OTR five years ago and have been waiting for more on this ever since.

So why should this be of interest to the ordinary decent punter? Well, it’s very simple. You know those extra fees which are added onto the price of the ticket by Ticketmaster? You know those fees which you are always giving out about? It seems that a slice of those fees goes back to the promoter, with the size of this rebate depending on the volume of business which that promoter does with TM.

For years, promoters (and acts) have used TM as a handy whipping boy when it comes to the blame game for high ticket prices. But in truth, there is a very worthwhile financial imperative for many of the promoters to maintain the TM connection and this is down to the rebates. As this report from the New York Times shows, rebates aren’t just an Irish thing.

In this case, per Paul’s report taken from papers filed with the High Court during the current action, Electric Picnic founder John Reynolds alleged that some of the TM rebates for the festival were going to Festival Republic Dublin (FRD). Furthermore, “Reynolds says he could get a rebate of 75c per ticket on his own and that with all FRD’s ‘financial might’, they can only get €1 together. He argues that previously the total rebate was €1.75 at a time when tickets were a third of the price.” FRD’s Melvin Benn then replied to this, saying “it is what I agreed with you and TM and Denis Desmond. It is 33% better than you get. Surely that is a good thing?”

There is also a very interesting quote from MCD and Festival Republic’s Desmond in response to Reynolds’ charge providing more proof about the value of these rebates to the promoter: “[My companies] sell 1.2m tickets in Ireland. When [Reynolds] sells 1.2m tickets in Ireland, he will get the same Ticketmaster rebate we get”. The amount of the rebate for 1.2m ticket sales is not mentioned but, given the figures per ticket bandied about by Reynolds, we’re probably talking a couple of million in payments from the additional fees foisted on punters for their tickets.

While the piece does add some (fabulous, fascinating, hilarious in places) colour to the on/off EP saga, the rebates matter is something which should be of concern to every gig-going music fan, regardless of whether they go to Stradbally or not. For years, many have asked about TM’s quasi-monopoly position in the marketplace and why this is so. We’ve always been told that promoters preferred to deal with one company rather than several and that TM’s systems and nationwide reach yadda yadda yadda was the bees’ knees etc. Other companies have tried to compete but no-one has been able to beat TM at this game.

But why would promoters go elsewhere when they’re getting a slice of the TM fees back as rebates? Those past off-the-record attempts by and briefings from promoters blaming TM for those fees can now be seen as hypocritical. They’re sticking with TM because they’re receiving a take of the fees paid by punters who have no other choice in service provider if they want to get their hands on tickets. You wonder what the acts make of this cash-grab – perhaps some whip-smart agent is already making a claim for a percentage of the rebates because there would be no rebates in the first place without the act.

Surely this is an issue for the Competition Authority and National Consumers Association too, given the manner in which the rebates are made and TM’s deals with the promoters? While promoters under TM deals are free to sell a certain proportion of their tickets with another provider, it’s usually only a very small percentage of the total and unlikely to trouble TM’s bottom line. Also, given that the rebates are volume-driven, it’s better for the promoters to keep the largest possible chunk of their business with TM. It seems that we have a new suspect in the blame game about why ticket prices are so high.
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Old 16-04-2013, 01:41 AM
Langer Dan Langer Dan is offline
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Misleading thread title
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  #5  
Old 16-04-2013, 06:29 AM
delzer delzer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langer Dan View Post
Misleading thread title
Not really.

There are pieces about ticketmaster and their fees. It may not be of interest to you though.
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Old 16-04-2013, 12:00 PM
Langer Dan Langer Dan is offline
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Pools hat IMO dude, not interesting. Cunts are cunts shocka!
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Old 16-04-2013, 12:49 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
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Interesting stuff alright! Pity the Sunday Times article requires a subscription.

So the stereotypical shady promoter of yore is alive and well... I'm trying to figure out why there is a rebate, a separate thing from profit. I suppose it's a good way to pull the wool over people's eyes?
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Old 16-04-2013, 12:58 PM
Bin Hex 12 Bin Hex 12 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madtheory View Post
Interesting stuff alright! Pity the Sunday Times article requires a subscription.
I have it - I'll put it up in the EP thread.
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Old 16-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Falling At Your Feet Falling At Your Feet is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madtheory View Post
I'm trying to figure out why there is a rebate, a separate thing from profit. I suppose it's a good way to pull the wool over people's eyes?
The rebates would form of the overall annual profit of the promoter.

Bascially, TM will say something like->
put 500,000 tickets through ourselves over 12 months, and you get 75 cent per ticket rebate.
put through 750,000 and the rebate goes up to 1 Euro per ticket.(or on the incremental volume)
etc. etc.

In short, the more tickets they put through TM, the more of a rebate they get, so thats part of the explanation as to why TM sell the vast majority of online ticket sales. Probably well over 90 % of ALL events in the country. So no other compeditor has any chance at all, of competing. These rebates are substantial 6 figure sums, what would anyone do if they were a high volume promoter ? It's a no brainer for them to go to the provider who gives the biggest kickback TM.

Rebates like this are fairly common from high volume suppliers. They are almost always based on volume. It's an anti compeditive practice, at best.
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Old 16-04-2013, 01:23 PM
madtheory madtheory is offline
 
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O right. So the largest chunk of the pie goes to the artist then? And TM give that to them directly? In my ignorance I always thought it was the promoter paid the artists then took the risk on whether or not they could sell tickets. So the promoter gets the largest chunk of the ticket sales after TM take their relatively smaller chunk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bin Hex 12 View Post
I have it - I'll put it up in the EP thread.
Cool thanks.
Edit: I thought it was this article that delzer was referring to:
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1245080.ece
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