Merseyside Derby

[EL TORO]

Here we go again.... 'form counts for nothing!' That always comes from the team who arent in form, at this moment that means Everton. Personally i'm praying for a win for the blues but in all honesty i really cannot see our current team pulling off the same feat as in September. Its unlikely AJ will start, which means Anichebe will be up on his own or Moyes will go for Beatts in attack. Hopefully young Anichebe will get the nod as Beats is never going to outmuscle Carra and co. Just wondering what the thoughts of the kopites are today?

[#11sully]

Agree with you about the form in a derby game BUT Liverpool look unbeatable at the moment at Anfield. Everton will find it very tough. 3 - 1 to Liverpool.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Debies are not really what they used to be.
They mean alot to the fans, but not really that much to the players anymore.
How can the likes of Alonso or Kuyt or Cahill or whoever relly care any more about this match than any other one?
The 3 points are as important as they would be for each team no matter who they were playing.
Derbies schmarbies.

[Forsberg]

On a positive note they have to win by 4 clear goals to get proper bragging rights this season.

I'm not expecting anything other than a Liverpool win to be honest. Despite winning against Wigan, Everton have been playing pretty poorly since Christmas. Johnson will be a big loss if he doesn't play .cos even when he hasn't got his scoring touch he 's an incredibly intelligent player and this is vital against quality opposition. I would n't be comfortable with Big Vic leading the line on his own. If i was to play him , I'd have Beattie alongside him. If not then I'd go with Beattie on his own.. Who knows, maybe a bit of responsibilty in a big game is what he needs .

[EL TORO]

Debies are not really what they used to be.
They mean alot to the fans, but not really that much to the players anymore.
How can the likes of Alonso or Kuyt or Cahill or whoever relly care any more about this match than any other one?
The 3 points are as important as they would be for each team no matter who they were playing.
Derbies schmarbies.

Cahill is a top lad, He loves playing in the derbies and honestly considers himself a blue. hibbert,Stubbs and Anichebe are all Evertonians anyway so it'll mean a lot more to those boys as i'm sure it will to Gerrard and Carra( with an everton tat on his forearm). As for the rest of Signor Benitez's spanish contingent im not sure it matters a great deal.

[Philby]

Debies are not really what they used to be.
They mean alot to the fans, but not really that much to the players anymore.
How can the likes of Alonso or Kuyt or Cahill or whoever relly care any more about this match than any other one?
The 3 points are as important as they would be for each team no matter who they were playing.
Derbies schmarbies.

To be honest you picked out 3 players who give absolutely everything they have every time they step out on the pitch. They won't care about this match more than any other because the likes of Kuyt especially never hold back or give less than 100%.

But conceptually I'd agree - derbies were a lot more meaningful when each side was choc-full of local lads but they are still massive occassions but invariably not great games technically.

I can see this one ending up as a draw but I hope Liverpool have enough to break down a solid & stubborn Everton side.

[EL TORO]

On a positive note they have to win by 4 clear goals to get proper bragging rights this season.

I'm not expecting anything other than a Liverpool win to be honest. Despite winning against Wigan, Everton have been playing pretty poorly since Christmas. Johnson will be a big loss if he doesn't play .cos even when he hasn't got his scoring touch he 's an incredibly intelligent player and this is vital against quality opposition. I would n't be comfortable with Big Vic leading the line on his own. If i was to play him , I'd have Beattie alongside him. If not then I'd go with Beattie on his own.. Who knows, maybe a bit of responsibilty in a big game is what he needs .

Beatts on his own will really struggle against the pool backline, unles he can provide knockdowns to Cahill or Arteta. I think Vic could give the reds different problems with his power and speed. here's hoping...

[Forsberg]

Beatts on his own will really struggle against the pool backline, unles he can provide knockdowns to Cahill or Arteta. I think Vic could give the reds different problems with his power and speed. here's hoping...

....and after the debacle of last week , let's hope we see something worthwhile from Fernandes

[Teknique]

I'm goin , hopefully we get some revenge

will stick some pics up next week

[Edmund Blackwater]

To be honest you picked out 3 players who give absolutely everything they have every time they step out on the pitch. They won't care about this match more than any other because the likes of Kuyt especially never hold back or give less than 100%..

That was exactly the point I was trying to make, poorly maybe.

[EL TORO]

....and after the debacle of last week , let's hope we see something worthwhile from Fernandes


The lad scored from 30 yards on his Portsmouth debut. If he did that again, he's an instant hero. Although i see him as another Mikel Madar.

[ho chi feen]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/02/02/the_myth_of_the_frie ndly_derby.html

The myth of the friendly derby
Ignore what Sky say - modern Liverpool v Everton matches are hate-ridden, noxious affairs.

Gregg Roughley
February 2, 2007 10:38 AM
No matter what happens on the pitch when Everton cross Stanley Park for the 205th Merseyside derby on Saturday, Andy Gray and co. will doubtless blab on about the supporters being able to give each other a jovial ribbing as they stroll up County Road for a pint before returning to their two-up-two-down red and blue painted terraced houses in Walton.

If there's one myth that has lingered even longer than the mist over the river Mersey, it's the notion that Liverpool versus Everton is a friendly derby: sepia-tinted and played out before kinfolk passing each other cups of Bovril between "quick-witted" jibes of which, in reality, only Stan Boardman or Tarby would be proud.

The perpetuation of the myth suits the family-friendly Premiership, but the reality is a little different: the modern-day derby is a hate-ridden, noxious affair that should come with a health warning, lest one inhales the fumes rising off the Gladwys Street or Spion Kop. Reds and Blues are no longer compatible. Toss a Red into the Gladwys Street, or a Toffee into the Kop and the reaction is as explosive as dropping a granule of zinc into sulphuric acid. What Sky doesn't show from 50 different angles in high definition are the few fans sat among home supporters who face phlegm-filled threats and abuse for celebrating a goal among rivals before being ejected for inciting trouble.

It's true that the derby has at times been a friendly encounter - most pointedly in the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster, when Evertonians couldn't have done more to comfort their rivals as the city of Liverpool fell into mourning. The clubs were even physically linked by a mile-long chain of red-and-blue scarves in the days following April 15, 1989. And a month later the city travelled en masse to Wembley for the FA Cup final, where over 100,000 supporters mixed in a fitting tribute to the 96 Liverpool fans who lost their lives. But there had been ill feeling prior to the Hillsborough disaster that gradually returned as Everton's fortunes spiralled downwards through the 90s.

Much of the sourness was born of the Heysel disaster in 1985. Everton had just pipped Liverpool to the league title with arguably their greatest-ever side, containing Peter Reid, Graeme Sharp and Trevor Steven. The subsequent five-year ban prevented Howard Kendall's team from competing for the European Cup, which many Toffees believe they would have won.

Liverpool, however, dusted themselves down and entered a halcyon period of their own in which Kenny Dalglish landed three league titles and two FA Cups. And while Everton struggled through the 90s with frequent flirtations with relegation - offset briefly by their impressive FA Cup win in 1995 - a mediocre Liverpool still managed a couple of cup wins, the occasional half-hearted title challenge and the huge publicity that went with their status as 'Spice Boys'.

Arguably the most laddish of that group, Robbie Fowler, fanned the derby flames further at Anfield in 1999 by responding to Evertonian chants of 'smackhead' by pretending to snort a line of cocaine after converting a penalty in front of Toffees fans. This heightened the blue half of Merseyside's antipathy towards the Reds - particularly as Robbie was a boyhood Evertonian - before Liverpool's cup treble under Gerard Houlier in 2001 prompted the hatred to spill over in most unedifying fashion, as Evertonians hurled Heysel insults at their red counterparts, bringing short a minute's silence at Goodison Park to remember those who died at Hillsborough.

Even Everton's success in finally finishing above Liverpool in 2005 was trumped by their rivals' subsequent Champions League win. This ruined any dreams Blues had of owning bragging rights for the summer - particularly as Liverpool qualified for the group stages while Everton crashed out of the Champions League and Uefa Cup by early September.

Sadly, the friendly banter may never return - until, perhaps, the on-field disparity between Everton and Liverpool inches towards parity again. Liverpool's imminent mega-bucks takeover makes this highly unlikely, which is a shame. For with Tim Cahill, Andy Johnson and Mikel Arteta, Everton are building a team that could yet have their supporters focusing on the pitch instead of the past.

Yet until sustained success allows Everton to win more than single-game bragging rights over their city rivals, ignore the fairytale and expect to hear chants of 'murderers' and reports of city-centre arrests. A friendly derby? My arse.

[EL TORO]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/02/02/the_myth_of_the_frie ndly_derby.html

The myth of the friendly derby
Ignore what Sky say - modern Liverpool v Everton matches are hate-ridden, noxious affairs.

Gregg Roughley
February 2, 2007 10:38 AM
No matter what happens on the pitch when Everton cross Stanley Park for the 205th Merseyside derby on Saturday, Andy Gray and co. will doubtless blab on about the supporters being able to give each other a jovial ribbing as they stroll up County Road for a pint before returning to their two-up-two-down red and blue painted terraced houses in Walton.

If there's one myth that has lingered even longer than the mist over the river Mersey, it's the notion that Liverpool versus Everton is a friendly derby: sepia-tinted and played out before kinfolk passing each other cups of Bovril between "quick-witted" jibes of which, in reality, only Stan Boardman or Tarby would be proud.

The perpetuation of the myth suits the family-friendly Premiership, but the reality is a little different: the modern-day derby is a hate-ridden, noxious affair that should come with a health warning, lest one inhales the fumes rising off the Gladwys Street or Spion Kop. Reds and Blues are no longer compatible. Toss a Red into the Gladwys Street, or a Toffee into the Kop and the reaction is as explosive as dropping a granule of zinc into sulphuric acid. What Sky doesn't show from 50 different angles in high definition are the few fans sat among home supporters who face phlegm-filled threats and abuse for celebrating a goal among rivals before being ejected for inciting trouble.

It's true that the derby has at times been a friendly encounter - most pointedly in the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster, when Evertonians couldn't have done more to comfort their rivals as the city of Liverpool fell into mourning. The clubs were even physically linked by a mile-long chain of red-and-blue scarves in the days following April 15, 1989. And a month later the city travelled en masse to Wembley for the FA Cup final, where over 100,000 supporters mixed in a fitting tribute to the 96 Liverpool fans who lost their lives. But there had been ill feeling prior to the Hillsborough disaster that gradually returned as Everton's fortunes spiralled downwards through the 90s.

Much of the sourness was born of the Heysel disaster in 1985. Everton had just pipped Liverpool to the league title with arguably their greatest-ever side, containing Peter Reid, Graeme Sharp and Trevor Steven. The subsequent five-year ban prevented Howard Kendall's team from competing for the European Cup, which many Toffees believe they would have won.

Liverpool, however, dusted themselves down and entered a halcyon period of their own in which Kenny Dalglish landed three league titles and two FA Cups. And while Everton struggled through the 90s with frequent flirtations with relegation - offset briefly by their impressive FA Cup win in 1995 - a mediocre Liverpool still managed a couple of cup wins, the occasional half-hearted title challenge and the huge publicity that went with their status as 'Spice Boys'.

Arguably the most laddish of that group, Robbie Fowler, fanned the derby flames further at Anfield in 1999 by responding to Evertonian chants of 'smackhead' by pretending to snort a line of cocaine after converting a penalty in front of Toffees fans. This heightened the blue half of Merseyside's antipathy towards the Reds - particularly as Robbie was a boyhood Evertonian - before Liverpool's cup treble under Gerard Houlier in 2001 prompted the hatred to spill over in most unedifying fashion, as Evertonians hurled Heysel insults at their red counterparts, bringing short a minute's silence at Goodison Park to remember those who died at Hillsborough.

Even Everton's success in finally finishing above Liverpool in 2005 was trumped by their rivals' subsequent Champions League win. This ruined any dreams Blues had of owning bragging rights for the summer - particularly as Liverpool qualified for the group stages while Everton crashed out of the Champions League and Uefa Cup by early September.

Sadly, the friendly banter may never return - until, perhaps, the on-field disparity between Everton and Liverpool inches towards parity again. Liverpool's imminent mega-bucks takeover makes this highly unlikely, which is a shame. For with Tim Cahill, Andy Johnson and Mikel Arteta, Everton are building a team that could yet have their supporters focusing on the pitch instead of the past.

Yet until sustained success allows Everton to win more than single-game bragging rights over their city rivals, ignore the fairytale and expect to hear chants of 'murderers' and reports of city-centre arrests. A friendly derby? My arse.

Thats pretty much spot on... Except im watching the game in Walton, Liverpool with a bunch of reds and blues. Not everything in black and white reads the same in Blue and red.

[Philby]

Very little interesting content in that article...very lazy...simply reads as a shopping list of Pool-Everton gripes over the last few decades...no insight at all. Having said that I don't think the merseyside derby is as pally as people make it out to be but it's a hell of a lot less bile-filled than most other similar derby games around Europe at the moment.

[Forsberg]

Very little interesting content in that article...very lazy...simply reads as a shopping list of Pool-Everton gripes over the last few decades...no insight at all. Having said that I don't think the merseyside derby is as pally as people make it out to be but it's a hell of a lot less bile-filled than most other similar derby games around Europe at the moment.

Agreed. As far as big local derbies goes it's pretty friendly but there's still edge and bite to it without it being "hate ridden" as the article hints at. No matter what people say and try to imply ,it's still, I'd imagine, the only derby that both fans can realistaclly mix in the stadium without there being trouble.

[st finnbar]

hopefully more of this :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0-rAqsMs

[AmadeusDC]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/02/02/the_myth_of_the_frie ndly_derby.html
.

That article is pretty much a synopsis of a longer/better one that was in 4-4-2 a while back. There is no doubt that the Liverpool Everton rivalry is heated but less violent than most. It's good that way to be honest. I wish that was the case more often. -AmadeusDC-

[markinmanc]

If you talk to Scousers in their 50s or older, you'll meet a lot who watched both clubs. I do think as well over the last few years there is more egde to the derby than previously - despite the CL win, rednoses still feel they're underachieving. Bluenoses feel - rightly imho - that they are being forced out of the city by a red-influenced council. The STanley Park thing sums it up - Everton were refused permission to build there, or share with Liddypool - they may actually move to Knowsley - how many other cities would willingly lose a football club?

Liverpool have never learned to win or lose graciosuly - bluenoses are used to losing!

[st finnbar]

great result for everton, defended very well, stubbs won everything that came into the box, there goes liverpools title dreams now:D

[wat_boy]

Liverpool have never learned to win or lose graciosuly

thats bollox, when ever liverpool are beaten or played off the park esp. at home the opposing team always get claped off the pitch take at arsenal at a few weeks back for example

[SpongeBobgirl]

The only derby I actually hear about or bother watching would be this one.Maybe because my brothers support Everton/Liverpool but otherwise take the Manchester derby for example I dont give a toss.Tottenham/Arsenal derby-yeah a passionate derby without a doubt.The others are fairly overrated and less passionate.

[Forsberg]

A good point but I was so disappointed by Moyes tactics . I know it was at Anfield and against the main rivals but when any team puts ten men behind the ball for the entire second half and not even attempt to push out doesn't deserve to get anything from the game. That's not the way football is supposed to be played imo. The minute I saw the lineup I knew what we were in for. Phill Neville and Lee Carsley in central midfield is as negative a partnership as there ever has been in the prem .......ever. By both of them suffocating Yobo and Stubbs , Arteta , Cahill and Osman instinctively dropped back. Threfor it was a cas of geting the ball and playing it first time into the channels for poor AJ to chase. Not even Cahill suppoted him today. It was awful stuff

[homer jay]

A good point but I was so disappointed by Moyes tactics . I know it was at Anfield and against the main rivals but when any team puts ten men behind the ball for the entire second half and not even attempt to push out doesn't deserve to get anything from the game. That's not the way football is supposed to be played imo. The minute I saw the lineup I knew what we were in for. Phill Neville and Lee Carsley in central midfield is as negative a partnership as there ever has been in the prem .......ever. By both of them suffocating Yobo and Stubbs , Arteta , Cahill and Osman instinctively dropped back. Threfor it was a cas of geting the ball and playing it first time into the channels for poor AJ to chase. Not even Cahill suppoted him today. It was awful stuff

interesting to get a toffee take on the game. i thought it was a turgid game of footy tbh. like you, i was really disappointed by the everton tactics. but liverpool failed to break them down, which they had been doing quite well recently against similar tactics, bolton for example.

5 points dropped vs everton this season imo.

[st finnbar]

A good point but I was so disappointed by Moyes tactics . I know it was at Anfield and against the main rivals but when any team puts ten men behind the ball for the entire second half and not even attempt to push out doesn't deserve to get anything from the game. That's not the way football is supposed to be played imo. The minute I saw the lineup I knew what we were in for. Phill Neville and Lee Carsley in central midfield is as negative a partnership as there ever has been in the prem .......ever. By both of them suffocating Yobo and Stubbs , Arteta , Cahill and Osman instinctively dropped back. Threfor it was a cas of geting the ball and playing it first time into the channels for poor AJ to chase. Not even Cahill suppoted him today. It was awful stuff

aj should have put away his chance to win it,if your a good team you will break the team down and score, liverpool had no idea what they were doing today

[xvis]

it's OFF again ...for another year.



They mean alot to the fans, but not really that much to the players anymore.
How can the likes of Alonso or Kuyt or Cahill or whoever relly care any more about this match than any other one?
The 3 points are as important as they would be for each team no matter who they were playing.
Derbies schmarbies.

funnily enough there's probably more local lads at top clubs now than there were twenty years ago, thanks to top clubs producing their own rather than sourcing them from lower divisions.

for Liverpool see Gerrard, Carragher, Fowler and Warnock. Most of their eighties side came from Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Zimbabwe etc and further afield in England.

ditto United, Scholes, Neville, Brown and Giggs (Salford). United didn't have so many local lads back through the decades.

..even the spine of Chelseas team is made up of Londoners ...Terry, Lampard, A. Cole, J. Cole, SWP.


Teams take on the character of the fans regardless anyway.

[homer jay]

it's OFF again ...for another year.




funnily enough there's probably more local lads at top clubs now than there were twenty years ago, thanks to top clubs producing their own rather than sourcing them from lower divisions.

for Liverpool see Gerrard, Carragher, Fowler and Warnock. Most of their eighties side came from Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Zimbabwe etc and further afield in England.

ditto United, Scholes, Neville, Brown and Giggs (Salford). United didn't have so many local lads back through the decades.

..even the spine of Chelseas team is made up of Londoners ...Terry, Lampard, A. Cole, J. Cole, SWP.


Teams take on the character of the fans regardless anyway.

its only temporarily not 'ON'. warnock is gone from liverpool

[xvis]

its only temporarily not 'ON'. warnock is gone from liverpool

it'll be back ON tomorrow if United lose... a point gained.

[STEVIEG]

Meanwhile another late goal gives the much wanked about Arsenal another draw and they move to within 14 points of United

Two horse-race unless something dramatic happens

United better improve on their dreadful record of losing all 3 televised Sunday games to Londan opposition if they want to keep their favourites tag intact

[Forsberg]

Rattlement all around after this game

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=44596 7&CPID=8&clid=11&lid=2&title=Everton+respon d+to+Rafa+jibe

Everton have issued a curt response to Rafa Benitez's suggestion that they are a 'small club' following Saturday's Merseyside derby.

The Reds boss was frustrated with Everton's tactics in a 0-0 draw at Anfield as they resisted wave after wave of Liverpool attacks to take a point.

In his post-match interview with PremPlus, the Spaniard voiced his annoyance by labelling Everton a 'small club'.

Benitez's statement has angered the Goodison Park club and now chief executive Keith Wyness has responded to the jibe from Everton's city rivals.

"It is disappointing to hear such an unnecessary comment at the conclusion of what was such a splendid local derby," Wyness told the club's official website.

"Of course, Mr Benitez is entitled to his opinion but I suspect he is in a minority of one in believing Everton is, in any respect, a small football club.

"Somehow we just expect more of a Liverpool manager."

Everton were good value for the draw after producing a battling display at Anfield, and manager David Moyes was delighted with how his team handled the derby clash.

"It was a real team performance," said Moyes.

"Stubbsy [Alan Stubbs] was man of the match and I think that was quite right. We needed all his experience today.

"I must praise all the players today because we knew coming here was going to be a big job, the way Liverpool have been playing.

"We've played them twice now and not conceded, so credit to the defenders."

[STEVIEG]

Rattlement all around after this game

a small football club.
]

Not the same "small football club" who thrashed Liverpool 3 nil earlier in the season surely, they must have defended with 8 men behind the ball that day too?

How quick we forget, Juventus away in the trophy that made him a Liverpool "legend" springs to mind..........

[ho chi feen]

Ha, that was gas alright.

I'll go along with Sheeeerah on MOTD, he probably meant a lesser or outside of the top 4 type side, but chose his words badly.

Either that, or he truly is the king of deadpan wummery.

[KolaKubes]

5 points dropped vs everton this season imo.

In your opinion?

No, I think it's fair to say you've the facts on your side with that one. ;)

As for the game, Jesus. Well, on the plus side, at least there was a few tackles in it. Any such "nastiness" in the Arsenal game was met with a raised eyebrow, a finger wag and a gallic shrug.

You know, there's so much aggro in every Arsenal game, is it a) because their jealous opponents try and kick them off the field or b) because they're a bunch of cheating gits?

[ccfc1984]

Rattlement all around after this game

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=44596 7&CPID=8&clid=11&lid=2&title=Everton+respon d+to+Rafa+jibe

Everton have issued a curt response to Rafa Benitez's suggestion that they are a 'small club' following Saturday's Merseyside derby.

The Reds boss was frustrated with Everton's tactics in a 0-0 draw at Anfield as they resisted wave after wave of Liverpool attacks to take a point.

In his post-match interview with PremPlus, the Spaniard voiced his annoyance by labelling Everton a 'small club'.

Benitez's statement has angered the Goodison Park club and now chief executive Keith Wyness has responded to the jibe from Everton's city rivals.

"It is disappointing to hear such an unnecessary comment at the conclusion of what was such a splendid local derby," Wyness told the club's official website.

"Of course, Mr Benitez is entitled to his opinion but I suspect he is in a minority of one in believing Everton is, in any respect, a small football club.

"Somehow we just expect more of a Liverpool manager."

Everton were good value for the draw after producing a battling display at Anfield, and manager David Moyes was delighted with how his team handled the derby clash.

"It was a real team performance," said Moyes.

"Stubbsy [Alan Stubbs] was man of the match and I think that was quite right. We needed all his experience today.

"I must praise all the players today because we knew coming here was going to be a big job, the way Liverpool have been playing.

"We've played them twice now and not conceded, so credit to the defenders."


Rafa was dead right today to have a go at the ''small club''. He's had to listen to a load of shit from the bug eyed ginger pube head(saw that on another forum) and Mourinho for a season or two now and he finally hit back today. Everton fans were on radio stations in england looking for an apology from Rafa that's what ''small clubs'' do. Everton fans celebrated today like they won the league that's small time fans if you ask me. A point at your rivals ground and celebratring like that is pure small time. As for the apology to the blueshite here it is ''Go fuck yourselves ye small club bastards''. :cool:

[toffeebhoy]

Good result for the toffees.

Hopefully we can keep Johnson and Cahill fit and make a push for Yerp.

[wat_boy]

sure if it wasn't for heysel they'd be massive :p

[KolaKubes]

It's off.

[homer jay]

Not the same "small football club" who thrashed Liverpool 3 nil earlier in the season surely, they must have defended with 8 men behind the ball that day too?

How quick we forget, Juventus away in the trophy that made him a Liverpool "legend" springs to mind..........

yes the small club who brought out a dvd to celebrate beating their only rivals. tiny timery right there.

[homer jay]

In your opinion?

No, I think it's fair to say you've the facts on your side with that one. ;)

As for the game, Jesus. Well, on the plus side, at least there was a few tackles in it. Any such "nastiness" in the Arsenal game was met with a raised eyebrow, a finger wag and a gallic shrug.

You know, there's so much aggro in every Arsenal game, is it a) because their jealous opponents try and kick them off the field or b) because they're a bunch of cheating gits?

you're obsessed with arsenal. get over yourself. there's another 'utd are the bestest after their latest win' thread to be typed up. :roll:

It's off.

you know nothing of the 'ON-ness' of the situation, absolutely nothing.

[KolaKubes]

you're obsessed with arsenal. get over yourself. there's another 'utd are the bestest after their latest win' thread to be typed up. :roll:

They're merely at the far end of the spectrum of London club distastefulness. I quite like Spurs though they seem to have been taking some lessons in pettiness with their "singling out" of about 5 Utd players for booing at one stage.

Nothing like Gooners though, Spurs fans actually know their football in my experience.



you know nothing of the 'ON-ness' of the situation, absolutely nothing.

Indeed, because it's so fucking off it's not funny! :D

[Forsberg]

yes the small club who brought out a dvd to celebrate beating their only rivals. tiny timery right there.

Shup you!




The annoying thing is you're right.That kind of thing really pisses me off as an Everton fan to be honest.. It's that kind of attitude , along with the negative tactics of saturday that will mean Everton will be nothing more than a midtable team for the forseeable future.

I still think it wasn't a very clever thing to say though from Benitez, especially considering ,as Steve said , Liverpool adopted said tactics on their way to European glory .

[Forsberg]

you're obsessed with arsenal. get over yourself. there's another 'utd are the bestest after their latest win' thread to be typed up. :roll:





Obsessed is an understatement

I'm actually starting to believe that Kola is regretting that he's not a gooner himself .

[wat_boy]

I still think it wasn't a very clever thing to say though from Benitez, especially considering ,as Steve said , Liverpool adopted said tactics on their way to European glory .

different kettle of fish when your away from home in the cl defending a lead imo, the juve game away was the only game where i thought liverpool adopted said tactics

[KolaKubes]

different kettle of fish when your away from home in the cl defending a lead imo, the juve game away was the only game where i thought liverpool adopted said tactics

I don't really get this one. Everton are Liverpool's local rivals, fucking up their ambitions by any means necessary is quite acceptable. If Everton were doing the same thing in all their away games, I'd be worried as an Everton fan but they don't seem to be from what little I've seen of them.

[STEVIEG]

different kettle of fish when your away from home in the cl defending a lead imo, the juve game away was the only game where i thought liverpool adopted said tactics

True but he has built his Liverpool success on scoring first and tightining up straight away

I haven't a problem with this and you have to say when Liverpool score first its generally good night to the opposition

It's very effective, though they have opened up more lately

Clubs like Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea have to expect that other teams will try and get what they can when they play at home

No matter what the tactics are you have to break them down



You can't complain about it really, that's why the better teams are better

I think Everton did well to get a result at a place where Liverpool have been in decent form
They won on aggregate too in the two fixtures which wil please the fans and are doing well despite some major blows to their squad through injuries (though i do accept Liverpool have had theirs too, but they have a bigger and better squad)

[ccfc1984]

True but he has built his Liverpool success on scoring first and tightining up straight away

I haven't a problem with this and you have to say when Liverpool score first its generally good night to the opposition

It's very effective, though they have opened up more lately

Clubs like Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea have to expect that other teams will try and get what they can when they play at home

No matter what the tactics are you have to break them down



You can't complain about it really, that's why the better teams are better

I think Everton did well to get a result at a place where Liverpool have been in decent form
They won on aggregate too in the two fixtures which wil please the fans and are doing well despite some major blows to their squad through injuries (though i do accept Liverpool have had theirs too, but they have a bigger and better squad)

I knew the blueshite would say that but i'm dissapointed with you stevie for highlighting it. I was talking to a few reds before the match and they were saying that everton are so small minded that Liverpool would have to win by 4goals to win on aggregate.

Everton = small club :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:

[st finnbar]

I knew the blueshite would say that but i'm dissapointed with you stevie for highlighting it. I was talking to a few reds before the match and they were saying that everton are so small minded that Liverpool would have to win by 4goals to win on aggregate.

Everton = small club :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:

cork city for ever, sorry this is a liverpool thread:eek:

[ccfc1984]

cork city for ever, sorry this is a liverpool thread:eek:

This is gettin scary every time i post in a thread you're there after me posting. Why do you follow me around the board. ?

[shammy feen]

Philbys is always banging on about how classy Benitez is... how much of a gentleman he is and how much more a better person he is than Mourinho...

Calling Everton a "Small Team" after a hard fought draw is really classy alright.....not disrespectfull at all...:rolleyes:

[homer jay]

Shup you!




The annoying thing is you're right.That kind of thing really pisses me off as an Everton fan to be honest.. It's that kind of attitude , along with the negative tactics of saturday that will mean Everton will be nothing more than a midtable team for the forseeable future.

the way things are (g14, CL money etc etc) everton are going to be midtable for a long time. they couldn't break in when they got the chance last season. it'll be harder and harder for teams like everton, spurs, newcastle etc to challenge near the top of the table.

I still think it wasn't a very clever thing to say though from Benitez, especially considering ,as Steve said , Liverpool adopted said tactics on their way to European glory .

benitez hasn't quite got the subtlety of josé or ferguson. vs bolton earlier this season, he quiped about them being to physical, and calling on the ref to be strong, and to protect his players. sure it really got the bolton team wound up for the game, and they duly beat liverpool 2-0.

i know what yourself and stevie are saying, and yis do have a point. while not condoning the tactics, pool were protecting a lead from the first leg in a cup game. a 0-0 draw would have seen them thru to the CL semi. everton were protecting a point, in a league game. there's a massive difference imo. to claim a moral victory, coupled with the aggregate score bullshit was just a bit small time.

but anyway, its done and dusted, lets move on

[Armitage Conway the 2nd]

I cant believe the stabbing a la back going on here by so called Everton fans. The tactics were spot on. We even had the best chance of the game even though we have had limited resources. The gulf between the two clubs in money terms is apparent. Everton will remain a midtable team because the money isnt there at the minute to invest in the squad.
Benitez blamed the tactics of everton but i think he was pissed at his own players. They had numerous chances throughout the game and didnt possess the quality to convert

[EL TORO]

A good point but I was so disappointed by Moyes tactics . I know it was at Anfield and against the main rivals but when any team puts ten men behind the ball for the entire second half and not even attempt to push out doesn't deserve to get anything from the game. That's not the way football is supposed to be played imo. The minute I saw the lineup I knew what we were in for. Phill Neville and Lee Carsley in central midfield is as negative a partnership as there ever has been in the prem .......ever. By both of them suffocating Yobo and Stubbs , Arteta , Cahill and Osman instinctively dropped back. Threfor it was a cas of geting the ball and playing it first time into the channels for poor AJ to chase. Not even Cahill suppoted him today. It was awful stuff

Just read this... Forsberg are you serious fella? Chelsea were played off the park by the redshite a few weeks back because they played their normal game, If we had gone into this game with 2 up front we would have been over run in midfield with no support for the defence it would have been a mauling. I along with 99% of other Evertonians would have gladly taken this hard fought result. Dont forget Liverpool employed the exact same tactics in Europe against the likes of Barca and Juve. Moyes got this one spot on. Great to see a team of hard working commited players hold out against a 100mil side of over rated mercenaries.

[Sound]

Just read this... Forsberg are you serious fella? Chelsea were played off the park by the redshite a few weeks back because they played their normal game, If we had gone into this game with 2 up front we would have been over run in midfield with no support for the defence it would have been a mauling. I along with 99% of other Evertonians would have gladly taken this hard fought result. Dont forget Liverpool employed the exact same tactics in Europe against the likes of Barca and Juve. Moyes got this one spot on. Great to see a team of hard working commited players hold out against a 100mil side of over rated mercenaries.

That's the dumbest think I've read here in a month. Well done. I suppose all of Everton's players stood in the stands during the glory days of Kendall? Or were they mostly transfers with a smattering of locals just like Liverpool?

Eejit.

[RonnyB]

a 100mil side of over rated mercenaries.

To call Liverpool's players mercenaries is plain stupid. They're just a side who struggle to break down teams who play for a draw or as Jose would say who park the bus in front of the goal.

[Forsberg]

Just read this... Forsberg are you serious fella? Chelsea were played off the park by the redshite a few weeks back because they played their normal game, If we had gone into this game with 2 up front we would have been over run in midfield with no support for the defence it would have been a mauling. I along with 99% of other Evertonians would have gladly taken this hard fought result. Dont forget Liverpool employed the exact same tactics in Europe against the likes of Barca and Juve. Moyes got this one spot on. Great to see a team of hard working commited players hold out against a 100mil side of over rated mercenaries.

I know I'm in the minority of Everton fans after this game but that's the way I feel. . Look I wasn't looking for them to play 4-4-2 or even go and play a gung ho all out attack but what Everton put on was the most negative display of football I've seen in a long time. I can understand teams like Sheff Utd , Watford , etc adopting these types of tactics but Everton have some top quality player and (suposedly) one of the top young managers around. For me, it showd a lack of faith from Moyes in the ability of his players. Remember , this is a team with an England international striker, a spaniard who is pretty close to being an international in probably the most talented midfield in international football, not to mention guys like Cahill , Neville and even Fernandes on the bench. Thes are top class players. Again Moyes decides to leave out Van Der Meyde , whoch I find odd considering , everytoime he's played this season he's been very good.



I don't mind defensive tactics , per se, as long as it's balanced by some counterattacking football, the kind of football that got Everton a great victory at Spurs .. We didn't get that . The one chance we did get was courtesy of clumsy loss of possession by Liverpool. It wasn't even an attack.

And the comment about mercenaries is jsut plain stupid El Toro

I cant believe the stabbing a la back going on here by so called Everton fans.

I'd call it constructive criticism and inlike most soccer fans I try not to walk around with tinted specs

[EL TORO]

I know I'm in the minority of Everton fans after this game but that's the way I feel. . Look I wasn't looking for them to play 4-4-2 or even go and play a gung ho all out attack but what Everton put on was the most negative display of football I've seen in a long time. I can understand teams like Sheff Utd , Watford , etc adopting these types of tactics but Everton have some top quality player and (suposedly) one of the top young managers around. For me, it showd a lack of faith from Moyes in the ability of his players. Remember , this is a team with an England international striker, a spaniard who is pretty close to being an international in probably the most talented midfield in international football, not to mention guys like Cahill , Neville and even Fernandes on the bench. Thes are top class players. Again Moyes decides to leave out Van Der Meyde , whoch I find odd considering , everytoime he's played this season he's been very good.

Van der meyde will be a last resort from now till his contract finishes. The guy is a waster. He's on the lash every chance he gets. Im not saying this because i read it in the papers. He's in Panacea in Manchester every weekend. A nice enough guy but a waste of talent.





I don't mind defensive tactics , per se, as long as it's balanced by some counterattacking football, the kind of football that got Everton a great victory at Spurs .. We didn't get that . The one chance we did get was courtesy of clumsy loss of possession by Liverpool. It wasn't even an attack.

And the comment about mercenaries is jsut plain stupid El Toro

Maybe it was a stupid statement in hindsight but like a lot of blues over here, people are still smarting after the 'small club' jibe.



I'd call it constructive criticism and inlike most soccer fans I try not to walk around with tinted specs

Forsberg. I agree that we have the players to go out a play attractive football. Arteta and Cahill are decent players. Osman, Neville, Carsley et al are all good players in their own right, but man for man not good enough to have taken the game to a superior attacking side. Surely you can see that without the defensive cover provided by Cars and Neville we would have taken a hammering. As for AJ, he played well enough on his own. Had Beattie been up front he would have been beaten for pace and height by Carra and Egger. Im not saying you are wrong in what have suggested, but we have to realise that certain games require and uglier approach. Look what happened to Liverpool when they tried to outplay Arsenal's kids. The time will come when we will have the players and confidence to play other teams off the park, until then its a matter of playing to strengths.

[EL TORO]

I know I'm in the minority of Everton fans after this game but that's the way I feel. . Look I wasn't looking for them to play 4-4-2 or even go and play a gung ho all out attack but what Everton put on was the most negative display of football I've seen in a long time. I can understand teams like Sheff Utd , Watford , etc adopting these types of tactics but Everton have some top quality player and (suposedly) one of the top young managers around. For me, it showd a lack of faith from Moyes in the ability of his players. Remember , this is a team with an England international striker, a spaniard who is pretty close to being an international in probably the most talented midfield in international football, not to mention guys like Cahill , Neville and even Fernandes on the bench. Thes are top class players. Again Moyes decides to leave out Van Der Meyde , whoch I find odd considering , everytoime he's played this season he's been very good.

Van der meyde will be a last resort from now till his contract finishes. The guy is a waster. He's on the lash every chance he gets. Im not saying this because i read it in the papers. He's in Panacea in Manchester every weekend. A nice enough guy but a waste of talent.





I don't mind defensive tactics , per se, as long as it's balanced by some counterattacking football, the kind of football that got Everton a great victory at Spurs .. We didn't get that . The one chance we did get was courtesy of clumsy loss of possession by Liverpool. It wasn't even an attack.

And the comment about mercenaries is jsut plain stupid El Toro

Maybe it was a stupid statement in hindsight but like a lot of blues over here, people are still smarting after the 'small club' jibe.



I'd call it constructive criticism and inlike most soccer fans I try not to walk around with tinted specs

Forsberg. I agree that we have the players to go out a play attractive football. Arteta and Cahill are decent players. Osman, Neville, Carsley et al are all good players in their own right, but man for man not good enough to have taken the game to a superior attacking side. Surely you can see that without the defensive cover provided by Cars and Neville we would have taken a hammering. As for AJ, he played well enough on his own. Had Beattie been up front he would have been beaten for pace and height by Carra and Egger. Im not saying you are wrong in what have suggested, but we have to realise that certain games require and uglier approach. Look what happened to Liverpool when they tried to outplay Arsenal's kids. The time will come when we will have the players and confidence to play other teams off the park, until then its a matter of playing to strengths.

[Forsberg]

Surely you can see that without the defensive cover provided by Cars and Neville we would have taken a hammering. .

But that's exactly my problem. it wasn't just defensive cover by the two lads. Moyes played a formation of 9-0-1 for the second half. As I said , I'm not asking for gung ho football , or even 4-4-2 for that matter. I just want to see some ambition from the manager and for him to show even a small bit of faith

The time will come when we will have the players and confidence to play other teams off the park, until then its a matter of playing to strengths

That time should have come when we qualified for the CL draw but be it Moyes's fault or the boards , they didn't get it done again. instead they signed only Simon Fucking Davies and Per Kroldrup in time for that European campaign. That said a lot to me about the clubs ambitions at the time.

[EL TORO]

But that's exactly my problem. it wasn't just defensive cover by the two lads. Moyes played a formation of 9-0-1 for the second half. As I said , I'm not asking for gung ho football , or even 4-4-2 for that matter. I just want to see some ambition from the manager and for him to show even a small bit of faith



That time should have come when we qualified for the CL draw but be it Moyes's fault or the boards , they didn't get it done again. instead they signed only Simon Fucking Davies and Per Kroldrup in time for that European campaign. That said a lot to me about the clubs ambitions at the time.

Fair points. I have been critical of Moyes a lot over the last few months, but there are signs that he is slowly getting things right. With the CL, it was too much too soon. When we played Villareal it was so apparant the difference in class between the 2 teams. We didnt have the cash at the time to build a team immediatly to compete at the required level. The signings of AJ, Lescott,Cahill and Arteta show that Moyesy is capable of getting there eventually, I truly believe that Bill Kenwright is main problem we have. His loyalty is not in question but his business acumen leaves a lot to be desired. Im getting the vibe that he's not willing to listen to prospective suitors as he may one day have to give up his favourite toy. Without funding of a significant nature (Mr Planethollywood aside) we cannot hope to become a force again. Moyes knows his and the teams limitations hence our less than impressive forays into the transfer market. If we sign the likes of Nugent and another player like Arteta (Requelme) we would pose a different kind of threat.

[legend76]

love the way Rafa referred to Everton as a "small club" in his post match interview

[Sound]

love the way Rafa referred to Everton as a "small club" in his post match interview

I thought it was petty and needless. That's the second time this season that he's wound up the opposition needlessly this season and doesn't help the cause.

[STEVIEG]

He has defended his comments


http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=44630 2&CPID=8&clid=14&lid=4161&title=Rafa+defends+E verton+comments

[Philby]

Philbys is always banging on about how classy Benitez is... how much of a gentleman he is and how much more a better person he is than Mourinho...

I stand by this & would imagine anyone with even a passing knowledge of the behaviour of both individuals since they came to the premiership would agree with me

Calling Everton a "Small Team" after a hard fought draw is really classy alright.....not disrespectfull at all...:rolleyes:

At best it was a misunderstanding arising from Rafa's developing understanding of the intricacies of the English language - at worst it was a needless, yet kinda funny, quip that hit its target judging by how Everton have got their knickers in a twist. Either way this is hardly a diplomatic incident. Move on Everton

As an aside, Moyes can spout on about the huge gulf in financial clout between the two sides (and how to even get with such shackles attached is a minor miracle) yet Rafa is castigated for suggesting that Everton aren't quite the superpower they once were...

[shammy feen]

Wheew...Tony Blairs Spin Doctors should sign Philby up quickly...


I stand by this & would imagine anyone with even a passing knowledge of the behaviour of both individuals since they came to the premiership would agree with me

Not my point..Im not debating who is the better person...We all know Jose can be an asshole theres no doubting that fact. My point is that Benitez is just as capable as being an asshole as Mourinho and you shouldnt be making him out to be some sort of Jesus. His small petty comments about Everton demonstrate this fact.


At best it was a misunderstanding arising from Rafa's developing understanding of the intricacies of the English language - at worst it was a needless, yet kinda funny, quip that hit its target judging by how Everton have got their knickers in a twist. Either way this is hardly a diplomatic incident. Move on Everton

Your inability to acknowledge that Benitez's comment were condesending and petty is a poor reflection on you mate. "A needless, yet funny quip"???? If you were an everton fan, would you see it that way? I think not.

As for " a misunderstanding arising from Rafa's developing understanding of the intricacies of the engish language..."
I dont think even you believe that...thats such a crock of shit.We all know he knew exactly what he was saying....his english is excellent any time hes interviewed...The plain truth is that he was annoyed and frustrated with the result and decided to have a little snipe...

As an aside, Moyes can spout on about the huge gulf in financial clout between the two sides (and how to even get with such shackles attached is a minor miracle) yet Rafa is castigated for suggesting that Everton aren't quite the superpower they once were...

Rafa never suggested that Everton "arent quite the superpower they once were"...you just made that up to suit your interpretation...... Rafa stated that Everton are a small club...big difference

Just this once Philby, show your capable of objectivity and admit that a Liverpool manager is fallable. Theres no shame in admitting that someone is human.

If Mourinho was being an asshole, I'd call him an asshole because he was being an asshole. We are all assholes from time to time and last weekend it was Benitez's turn. Now dont be an asshole and try and tell me he wasnt being an asshole, because that would just make you look like an asshole.


Shammy;)

[Philby]

Ah relax will ya, this is a non-entity of a scandal.

Rafa clarified that his interpretation of "small" was, rightly or wrongly, strongly linked to whether a team was in the "big 4" or whether a team was the sort that come to the grounds of the big 4 and put 11 men, a physio and 2 ball boys behind the ball in the hope of maybe snatching a point.

And again, why is it that Moyes can, when it suits him, play up Everton's status as the poor relations on merseyside yet when Rafa comments on it they go ballistic. Me thinks she doth protest too much...

Just this once Philby, show your capable of objectivity and admit that a Liverpool manager is fallable.

Rafa is fallable. He parts or has parted with hard cash every week for Josemi, Zenden & Nunez.

To be fair I can see it is condescending but it's hardly an all-out verbal attack and in the grand scheme of things is nothing in comparison to some of the verbal tirades that are thrown around the premiership on a weekly basis...god knows how they would've reacted if he's come out with any of Shankly's gems below

I know this is a sad occasion but I think that Dixie would be amazed to know that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd than Everton can on a Saturday afternoon.
Don't worry, Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team! - To Alan Ball, who'd just signed for Everton
"Anything off the top?", asked a barber in 1968. "Aye, Everton," replied Shankly.
If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd pull the curtains.

[Sound]

Wheew...Tony Blairs Spin Doctors should sign Philby up quickly...




Not my point..Im not debating who is the better person...We all know Jose can be an asshole theres no doubting that fact. My point is that Benitez is just as capable as being an asshole as Mourinho and you shouldnt be making him out to be some sort of Jesus. His small petty comments about Everton demonstrate this fact.




Your inability to acknowledge that Benitez's comment were condesending and petty is a poor reflection on you mate. "A needless, yet funny quip"???? If you were an everton fan, would you see it that way? I think not.

As for " a misunderstanding arising from Rafa's developing understanding of the intricacies of the engish language..."
I dont think even you believe that...thats such a crock of shit.We all know he knew exactly what he was saying....his english is excellent any time hes interviewed...The plain truth is that he was annoyed and frustrated with the result and decided to have a little snipe...



Rafa never suggested that Everton "arent quite the superpower they once were"...you just made that up to suit your interpretation...... Rafa stated that Everton are a small club...big difference

Just this once Philby, show your capable of objectivity and admit that a Liverpool manager is fallable. Theres no shame in admitting that someone is human.

If Mourinho was being an asshole, I'd call him an asshole because he was being an asshole. We are all assholes from time to time and last weekend it was Benitez's turn. Now dont be an asshole and try and tell me he wasnt being an asshole, because that would just make you look like an asshole.


Shammy;)

I found the comments petty and needless. But you can count the amount of times Rafa has done something like this on two fingers. Jose says something like this every other week.

[ho chi feen]

I stand by this & would imagine anyone with even a passing knowledge of the behaviour of both individuals since they came to the premiership would agree with me



At best it was a misunderstanding arising from Rafa's developing understanding of the intricacies of the English language - at worst it was a needless, yet kinda funny, quip that hit its target judging by how Everton have got their knickers in a twist. Either way this is hardly a diplomatic incident. Move on Everton

As an aside, Moyes can spout on about the huge gulf in financial clout between the two sides (and how to even get with such shackles attached is a minor miracle) yet Rafa is castigated for suggesting that Everton aren't quite the superpower they once were...

Rafa Benitez is a man of his word?

[shammy feen]

I found the comments petty and needless. But you can count the amount of times Rafa has done something like this on two fingers. Jose says something like this every other week.

True....true...but to say he wasnt in the wrong is just pigheadedness.