Twenty Years of Fergie!

[STEVIEG]

And long may he continue..........

[Loftydog]

They'll have to carry him out in a box. Hes there for life

[STEVIEG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6078912.stm

[bricktop]

if he wins the league or euro cup once more, he'll call it a day i reckon.

[Forsberg]

Thisis the bext United XI of Fergies reign according to Steve Curry fron The Daily mail as stated on that Jimmy Hill thing this morning

Schmeichel

G Neville
Bruce
Pallister
Irwin

Beckham
Robson
Scholes
Giggs

Cantona
Rooney


One glaring omission, but that's the British press for ya

[STEVIEG]

Thisis the bext United XI of Fergies reign according to Steve Curry fron The Daily mail as stated on that Jimmy Hill thing this morning

Schmeichel

G Neville
Bruce
Pallister
Irwin

Beckham
Robson
Scholes
Giggs

Cantona
Rooney


One glaring omission, but that's the British press for ya

Mockery

Paul Wilson had

Schmeichel
Neville Stam Pallister Irwin
Beckham Keane Scholes Giggs
Cantona Hughes


Leaving out the Rooneys of the world as they haven't had the chance to achieve much yet

Mine would be the same with Bruce instead of Stam (the possibility is that Rio or Vidic could ultimately challenge in the long run)
Same full backs and midfield (with the possibilty of Ronaldo eventually replacing Beckham)
and same front two (with Wayne eventually replacing Hughes)

[Loftydog]

Thisis the bext United XI of Fergies reign according to Steve Curry fron The Daily mail as stated on that Jimmy Hill thing this morning

Schmeichel

G Neville
Bruce
Pallister
Irwin

Beckham
Robson
Scholes
Giggs

Cantona
Rooney


One glaring omission, but that's the British press for ya

Fucks sake...No Ralph Milne?

[Forsberg]

Fucks sake...No Ralph Milne?

I was thinking of Djemba- Djemba to be honest

[Loftydog]

I was thinking of Djemba- Djemba to be honest

Ah right

[xvis]

Mockery

Paul Wilson had

Schmeichel
Neville Stam Pallister Irwin
Beckham Keane Scholes Giggs
Cantona Hughes


Leaving out the Rooneys of the world as they haven't had the chance to achieve much yet

Mine would be the same with Bruce instead of Stam (the possibility is that Rio or Vidic could ultimately challenge in the long run)
Same full backs and midfield (with the possibilty of Ronaldo eventually replacing Beckham)
and same front two (with Wayne eventually replacing Hughes)

ditto.

I'd have the same, Bruce in for Stam. My closest omission is Hughes in ahead of Ruud, but Hughes had a much longer haul and more success ...the rest of the team picks itself.

Schmeichel
Neville Bruce Pallister Irwin
Beckham Keane Scholes Giggs
Cantona Hughes


It's been a great achievement.
..I'm sure he has his eye on Busbys 25 years, although I don't think he even knows himself when he'll step down.
I always say that teams go in cycles of four years, and this team is in year one of a four year cycle, I don't think he'll want to 'recycle' another side after this one.

..but it's his call, he's the boss.


I'd say the highlight of his weekend was not the Chelsea or Arsenal defeats, but the Wenger bust-up, I bet he's still cracking himself over that.

[STEVIEG]

Tribute from Paul McGrath

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6102216.stm

[STEVIEG]

Bobby Charlton

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6100500.stm

Gary Pallister

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6112796.stm

[xvis]

Tribute from Paul McGrath

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6102216.stm

I've just finished reading all of those.


It's a shame McGrath wasn't a part of a championship winning side at United, but he was a mess, ...a few character flaws of a great talent, but what an athlete.

[STEVIEG]

I've just finished reading all of those.


It's a shame McGrath wasn't a part of a championship winning side at United, but he was a mess, ...a few character flaws of a great talent, but what an athlete.


True-I always remembered him as a great player for United and i only read later that he was playing at about 75% of his capacity for the reds
It's incredible that he still ended up having a long career in the end though

[Up The Rebels]

Fergie ???

[STEVIEG]

Fergie ???


Yeah, that's what he is commonly known as
Better than Sir Alex anyway

[STEVIEG]

21

[PatMan]

21

Enough now!

[ho chi feen]

Would ya though?

http://www.ostendo.co.za/images/blog/fergie.gif

[ho chi feen]

I know I wouldn't....

http://www.djguide.nl/image/djfotos/fergie.jpg

[STEVIEG]

http://i22.tinypic.com/21bk4zd.jpg

No

[ho chi feen]

http://i22.tinypic.com/21bk4zd.jpg

No

Eurgghhhh.

I'd sooner do this wan...

http://soccerlens.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/alex-ferguson.jpg

Married to the Prince of Wales, I think.

[STEVIEG]

I'd sooner do this wan...


That goes without saying:)

Bumslapping at it's finest

[STEVIEG]

Some of his best and worst decisions over the last 21 years

From Manchester Evening News

James Robson counts down the 21 most pivotal decisions he's made during his time at the helm of the biggest club in the world.


21) Opting against Zidane -
Ferguson monitored Zinedine Zidane when he was a little-known playmaker at French side Bordeaux. Despite being a big admirer of Zizou, he had nagging doubts about how to squeeze both him and Eric Cantona into the same side. Zidane went on to sign for Juventus and become the finest player in the world, while Cantona went on to announce his retirement a year later.

20) Withdrawing from the FA Cup -
When United opted to take part in the inaugural World Club Championships instead of defending the FA Cup they won in 1999, it was heralded as the death of football's oldest cup competition. Ferguson, meanwhile, thought he was blazing a similar trail on the world stage as Matt Busby had done in Europe 40 years prior.

Ultimately neither prediction proved true.

19) Selling Van Nistelrooy -
Described by Ferguson as United's greatest striker since Denis Law, Van Nistelrooy scored 150 goals in 217 appearances. But that counted for nothing when the Dutchman was deemed to have an unsettling influence in the dressing room. Like so many before him, he was ruthlessly cast aside after five magnificent seasons. His departure, though, spurred United on to their first title in four years as the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney came out of Nistelrooy's shadow.

18) Keeping Bryan Robson -
When Ferguson headed to Old Trafford in 1986 he came into a club with an established drinking culture that he could not abide. As such, he dumped fans' favourites like Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath - but turned a blind eye to Robson's antics, claiming it didn't affect the United captain's performance levels.

Robson continued to serve the club with distinction, stewarding them through Ferguson's early years before eventually being rewarded with his first title in 1993.

17) Rock of Gibraltar -
At first his relationship with John Magnier looked like a match made in heaven. Not only was he the finest manager on the planet, but he was also part owner of the finest horse in Rock of Gibraltar. But it all turned sour when the issue of stud rights came up, with the argument escalating to the boardroom and at one point seemingly threatening Ferguson's very position at the club. The two parties eventually came to a settlement, and Fergie's interest in horse racing has been distinctly lower profile ever since.

16) Appointing Steve McClaren -
He might be far from convincing as England manager - but McClaren was fabulously successful as Fergie's No2 at Old Trafford. Recruited when Brian Kidd left to take charge of Blackburn in 1998, McClaren's first season saw United complete the treble. He went on to help them to two more titles in successive years before heading for Middlesbrough in 2001. The following season United failed to win the Premier League for the first time in three years.

15) Selling Stam -
Whether it was his autobiography, injury record, form or the £16m Lazio were willing to pay for him, Stam's departure was a costly one for United. Not least because he was replaced with an immobile and ineffective Laurent Blanc. Without their rock at the back, United relinquished the title after three successive wins - finishing the 2001-2 season in third place and behind Liverpool for the only time since the Premier League began.

14) Eric Harrison -
Fergie put his faith in Eric Harrison when deciding that a proper youth structure was the key to success.

As youth team coach Harrison played a pivotal role in the development of all Fergie's fledglings. From Giggs to Darren Fletcher and everyone in between, Harrison nurtured them through the early days.

13) Burying the hatchet with Schmeichel -
The Great Dane looked to be on his way out of United in 1995 despite four outstanding years at the club. Ferguson had blamed Schmeichel's kicking for United's failure to hold on to a 3-0 lead at Anfield, prompting a furious bust-up. The keeper was all set to leave when the manager overheard him apologising to his team-mates, and decided to forget the incident. Schmeichel went on to win four more titles with United and captained their 1999 Champions' League victory in his final appearance for the club.

12) Standing by Cantona -
The Frenchman's kung fu kick on a fan at Selhurst Park in 1995 led to furious calls for his departure. Ferguson, though, had other plans - going to great lengths to convince Cantona that he still had a future at Old Trafford. How right he was as Cantona came back to captain United's next generation to the double and back-to-back titles.

11) Keane fallout -
Of all the players Ferguson has had to let go, the acrimonious departure of Keane was probably the most painful. After publicly slating his team-mates on MUTV, the fiery Irishman was given his marching orders. In truth he had been below his best for some time and his exit forced Ferguson to embrace the future - splashing out £18m on Michael Carrick.

10) Selling Beckham -
No sooner than a flying boot struck the head of the then England captain, his departure from Old Trafford was inevitable.

Ronaldo's arrival cushioned the loss of the midfielder - but his absence still had a profound impact on United, who would take four years to win another Premier League title.

9) Signing Ryan Giggs -
Giggs was connected with Manchester City when Fergie turned up on his doorstep with YTS forms for United. His*high hopes for the Welshman led him to watch his youth games as a teenager, before heading off to prepare for first team matches later that day. Arguably the club's greatest ever servant - Giggs has been a pivotal part of each of the nine titles won under Ferguson.

8) Announcing retirement -
When Ferguson revealed he was set to retire at the end of the 2001-2 season it was largely blamed for a rather limp defence of the title they'd dominated for the previous three seasons - with a number of players deemed to have coasted as they awaited his replacement.

7) Scrapping retirement plans -
With Sven Goran Eriksson reputedly set to be announced as his successor, Ferguson shelved plans to step aside, instead promising to build a third great team at United. His decision was soon vindicated as he went on to win his eighth title at Old Trafford the next season.

6) Bringing through the kids -
Fresh from missing out on the title to Blackburn and FA Cup to Everton in 95, Ferguson called time on his first great United side - selling off Paul Ince, Andrei Kanchelskis and Mark Hughes. In came youth academy graduates Beckham, Butt, Scholes and the Nevilles, prompting BBC television pundit, Alan Hansen, to assert: "You never win anything with kids." How wrong he was as United went on to win the double and those same kids proved the nucleus of the 1999 treble-winning side and beyond.

5) Selecting Robins -
The FA Cup third round clash with Nottingham Forest 1990 looked every bit a must-win for Ferguson. With the national press already writing his obituary, defeat would surely have cost him his job, little over three years in the post. He opted to play a little-known prospect from the youth team called Mark Robins, who stooped to head the only goal of the match and set Ferguson on course for his first trophy at United and spark a flood of silverware.

4) Dropping Leighton -
If Robins spared Ferguson the sack, his decision to drop Jim Leighton for the Cup Final replay against Crystal Palace, truly saved his job. Given that United ended the season just five points above the relegation zone, he needed tangible proof that he was building something at Old Trafford. His first piece of silverware provided that - but not without putting Jim Leighton's nose out of joint. The Scotland international's jittery performance in the 3-3 draw in the first match, led to Ferguson calling on loanee Les Sealey, who duly kept a clean sheet in a 1-0 win.

3) Sending in the SAS -
With 23 minutes remaining and United trailing 1-0 to Bayern Munich in the 1999 European Cup final, Ferguson threw on Teddy Sheringham to try to turn the match. With nine minutes left and still no change, he sent for Ole Gunnar Solksjaer. With only stoppage time remaining United were still behind to Mario Basler's sixth minute strike. By full-time both Sheringham and Solksjaer had scored to clinch the treble.

2) Taking a chance on Cantona -
The Frenchman had been pivotal to Leeds edging United to the title in 1992 and his brilliance was beyond question. But he came with baggage and enfant terrible image that Howard Wilkinson couldn't tame. When Leeds made an approach for Denis Irwin in late 1992, Fergie countered with a cheeky request for Cantona. The rest is history.

1) Accepting the job -
Surely the most pivotal of all, not just for Ferguson but Manchester United. He brought unprecedented success and returned to the summit of English football at a time of massive change for the national game. Ferguson had already reputedly gone close to taking a job at Tottenham, only to later change his mind. Had he not, the face of English football might be very different today.

[Edmund Blackwater]

I call bullshit on number 18.
robson spent 2/3 of the time himself and Ferguson were both at the club in the physio's room. back, shoulder and knee injuries if I remember rightly.

[RonnyB]

I call bullshit on number 18.
robson spent 2/3 of the time himself and Ferguson were both at the club in the physio's room. back, shoulder and knee injuries if I remember rightly.

A good portion of it anyway, plus after '91 he became less of an influence.

The Zidane one too is a bit off the mark. That summer United were after Shearer and were willing to spend £12m on him which would have been a club record transfer fee. Dont think the money was there for Zidane too. Add in Cantona only being 30 years of age & winning footballer of the year and the emergence of Scholes, led Fergie to stay away from Zizou. Also he had a very poor Euro '96.

(then again Karel Poborsky was one of the players of that tournament & look how that turned out)

[STEVIEG]

(then again Karel Poborsky was one of the players of that tournament & look how that turned out)

United should never look at these tournaments as benchmarks

The name Kleberson springs to mind:)

[Actin The Sham]

And long may he continue..........

Surely it's 21.

NB Berlin "Take My Breath Away" was at number one in the UK singles charts when he was appointed manager back in 1986.

http://www.solarnavigator.n et/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/tom_cruise_val_kilme r_top_gun_locker_roo m.jpg


My how time flies....

[RonnyB]

United should never look at these tournaments as benchmarks

The name Kleberson springs to mind:)

Remember Diouf was hailed as a great player after the WC in '02? He didnt even score a goal in the comp & Pool fans were raving about him.

[STEVIEG]

Surely it's 21.
.

Yup i bumped last years one

[STEVIEG]

Remember Diouf was hailed as a great player after the WC in '02? He didnt even score a goal in the comp & Pool fans were raving about him.

Don't forget the arguably as bad as Djemba------Salif Diao

[Edmund Blackwater]

What were Poborsky's attributes? He's a player that I've somhow completely forgotten about. Pacey or tricky or both? Good crosser? Good goalscorer? Good passer?

[marco 2005]

and the Forlan fiasco

[STEVIEG]

What were Poborsky's attributes? He's a player that I've somhow completely forgotten about. Pacey or tricky or both? Good crosser? Good goalscorer? Good passer?

Hair

Nah decent enough player but the ermegence of Beckham kept his opportunities to a minimum

Proved he was a good player after united and went on to have an okay career, but not United quality really

[STEVIEG]

and the Forlan fiasco

Nothing to do with the World Cups

Very important in the 2003 League title victory too

A dissapointment, but one who has proved himself to be a good player since

[marco 2005]

Nothing to do with the World Cups

Very important in the 2003 League title victory too

A dissapointment, but one who has proved himself to be a good player since

I know that, i was just refering to your post about some of the worst decisions he made.

Forlan was a brilliant player before joining Utd and he's been back to his best football since he left Utd.

[STEVIEG]

I know that, i was just refering to your post about some of the worst decisions he made.

Forlan was a brilliant player before joining Utd and he's been back to his best football since he left Utd.

Oh sorry


There were a lot worse



As i say, his importance in a very important league title in 2003 will always live long in my memory

Especially the late goals against Southampton and Chelsea, not to mention the comedy gold against Jerzey Dudek

[RonnyB]

What were Poborsky's attributes? He's a player that I've somhow completely forgotten about. Pacey or tricky or both? Good crosser? Good goalscorer? Good passer?

Fierce energetic player a bit like SWP I would say. Not a bad scorer but the fact that he needed to play 75% of games to retain his work permit meant Fergie left him go mid season after being offered a decent fee from Benfica.

[KolaKubes]

Signing Anderson.

[EDDIEB]

What were Poborsky's attributes? He's a player that I've somhow completely forgotten about. Pacey or tricky or both? Good crosser? Good goalscorer? Good passer?

A Czech Kanchelskis so Fergie thought ?

[POL]

a mediocre manger whose achievements will enhanced by the fact he was operating in a time when the premiership was in transition

[Lamps]

Signing Anderson.

unearthing FFS

unearthing

[RonnyB]

a mediocre manger whose achievements will enhanced by the fact he was operating in a time when the premiership was in transition

And what abouts his achievements at Aberdeen?

[ebenezer]

1 European Cup in 20 years.

Could you imagine Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc putting up with a manager who has that European record ?

[Edmund Blackwater]

1 European Cup in 20 years.

Could you imagine Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc putting up with a manager who has that European record ?
Don't know about the rest, but winning 2 of them wasn't good enough to keep del Bosque in a job

[KolaKubes]

1 European Cup in 20 years.

Could you imagine Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc putting up with a manager who has that European record ?

If he finishes with just the one European Cup but another four league titles, I'll gladly take that.

Why would a Forest fan be so obsessed with that as the metric of a manager anyway or a club for that matter?

And where does this leave Wenger?

[Edmund Blackwater]

And where does this leave Wenger?
At Arsenal.

[RonnyB]

1 European Cup in 20 years.

Could you imagine Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc putting up with a manager who has that European record ?

I'd rather have a manager who wins 1 European Cup & oversees the most successful period of the clubs history than a guy who won 2 yet guided them to relegation.

[Rebel Yell]

The league is the real barometer of long term success, with the few additional cups adding to the trimming...can't really argue with nine titles since 1993...Fergie deserves great credit for his seemingly eternal boundless enthusiasm and energy. he remains as passionate about the job 21 years on as he was in 86. That's a mighty difficult thing to do for someone in any position, never mind one so demanding and pressurised...

Happy 21st Sir Alex

[AmadeusDC]

I'd rather have a manager who wins 1 European Cup & oversees the most successful period of the clubs history than a guy who won 2 yet guided them to relegation.

Zing........

-AmadeusDC-

[Lamps]

didn't clough oversee the most successful period in forests history

[Lamps]

Ferguson has never presided over a truly great european side,

[Professor Piehead]

And long may he continue..........

21 years, pah, typical glory hunter, doesn't even know his own club's history, mockery etc etc..

[Lamps]

21 years, pah, typical glory hunter, doesn't even know his own club's history, mockery etc etc..

schoolboy error piebald, keep your eye on the ball.

[POL]

go easy on him, FRAP has been banned :lol!:

[ebenezer]

I'd rather have a manager who wins 1 European Cup & oversees the most successful period of the clubs history than a guy who won 2 yet guided them to relegation.

"For all his horses, knighthoods and championships, he hasn't got two of what I've got. And I don't mean balls."

Ferguson had/has immense financial backing to gain success unlike Clough.

Mr Clough won titles and European Cups with PROVINCIAL clubs.

[Professor Piehead]

schoolboy error piebald, keep your eye on the ball.

You'll have to explain Lampoon, 1986-2007 is 21 years in my book.

[ebenezer]

You'll have to explain Lampoon, 1986-2007 is 21 years in my book.

Stop digging, IMO.

[Lamps]

You'll have to explain Lampoon, 1986-2007 is 21 years in my book.

oh dear. its is you my crowellian friend who are being lampooned with this carry on.

[Lamps]

Stop digging, IMO.

good advice

[Professor Piehead]

oh dear. its is you my crowellian friend who are being lampooned with this carry on.

Not carrying on dear boy, confused, I asked you to explain it, that's all.

[Lamps]

Not carrying on dear boy, confused, I asked you to explain it, that's all.

Let this be a lesson to you lad, don't go jumping in with both feet. Check the dates. Do you think the vice president of the kanturk branch of the ManYoo supporters club would make such a glaring mistake.

We've given you an easy ride this time, partial copybook blot.

[RonnyB]

"For all his horses, knighthoods and championships, he hasn't got two of what I've got. And I don't mean balls."

Ferguson had/has immense financial backing to gain success unlike Clough.

Mr Clough won titles and European Cups with PROVINCIAL clubs.

Clough won in an era when the maximum number of teams from any country was 2. So lets say you had Liverpool, Rangers, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, PSG, Real and so forth. They all played each other in knockouts. FFS Liverpool played the likes of Dundalk back in the day. How many actual class teams did Clough's Forest have to beat?

[Lamps]

Clough won in an era when the maximum number of teams from any country was 2. So lets say you had Liverpool, Rangers, Bayern, Ajax, Juventus, PSG, Real and so forth. They all played each other in knockouts. FFS Liverpool played the likes of Dundalk back in the day. How many actual class teams did Clough's Forest have to beat?

Very diiferent era Ronny, a lot of the eastern european sides were very handy, Hamburg were very good side. Don't judge these past teams by their current ones.

You don't hear people knocking Ajax and Bayerns wins against similar opposition.
If you think about it, the standard of great players about these days is a lot less than it was back then.

[STEVIEG]

unearthing FFS

unearthing

:)

[homer jay]

FFS Liverpool played the likes of Dundalk back in the day. How many actual class teams did Clough's Forest have to beat?

Hey! 'the town' wouldn't have bent over and taken it like besiktas last night.

[STEVIEG]

21 years, pah, typical glory hunter, doesn't even know his own club's history, mockery etc etc..

Owned like a bitch

[STEVIEG]

Hey! 'the town' wouldn't have bent over and taken it like besiktas last night.

Heh heh

[STEVIEG]

Let this be a lesson to you lad, don't go jumping in with both feet. Check the dates. Do you think the vice president of the kanturk branch of the ManYoo supporters club would make such a glaring mistake.

We've given you an easy ride this time, partial copybook blot.

Ha ha:)

The really class pawnings are when they still fail to see it after being pulled on it

[Lamps]

Owned like a bitch

bit of a premature ejaculation alright

standards must be upheld

[Lamps]

Ha ha:)

The really class pawnings are when they still fail to see it after being pulled on it

*high five*

[STEVIEG]

*high five*

Back at ya

P.S. what happened FRAP?

[ebenezer]

.... How many actual class teams did Clough's Forest have to beat?

Liverpool, Ajax, Koln, Hamburg, Dynamo Berlin.

Not bad for a side who were in the 2nd division a couple of years earlier.

[Lamps]

Back at ya

P.S. what happened FRAP?

it was supposedly banned, though i have yet to see evidence.

could have said something in the lost posts.

tough couple of days for Piebald all the same

[homer jay]

*high five*

there'll be no *high fiving* on this forum. standards etc.

[Lamps]

there'll be no *high fiving* on this forum. standards etc.

We set the standards.

Sound does the bannings.

Its a system that works

[homer jay]

We set the standards.

Sound does the bannings.

Its a system that works

yes, "we" set the standards. buck up.

[Professor Piehead]

We set the standards.

Sound does the bannings.

Its a system that works

Ok, I've blotted my copy book, I'm just asking how, educate me lad.

[homer jay]

it was supposedly banned, though i have yet to see evidence.

could have said something in the lost posts.

tough couple of days for Piebald all the same

it was banned alright, altho some of it's posts remain.

[STEVIEG]

Ok, I've blotted my copy book, I'm just asking how, educate me lad.

Go to the date of my original post at the start of this thread

And check it

[Professor Piehead]

Go to the date of my original post at the start of this thread

And check it

Ah-ha, totaly missed that, extreme ownage. You're still a glory hunter though.

[STEVIEG]

Ah-ha, totaly missed that, extreme ownage. You're still a glory hunter though.

1979

see ya later

[homer jay]

1979

see ya later

great song

[Lamps]

Ok, I've blotted my copy book, I'm just asking how, educate me lad.

christ I'd already told you.

check
the
dates



Flap's banning has you badly rattled

[STEVIEG]

great song

Yup, great band too

Though when i saw them they were strung out on something and a bit cuntish

[RonnyB]

great song

Disarm is better though.

[homer jay]

Disarm is better though.

both great. but i've very good memories of 1979, from back in the day, up home and all that ;)

[STEVIEG]

both great. but i've very good memories of 1979, from back in the day, up home and all that ;)

The Troubles?

[POL]

Piebald has lost his way without FRAP to back him up

[Professor Piehead]

christ I'd already told you.

check
the
dates



Flap's banning has you badly rattled

It must have affected me more than I thought. Imagine if Pol had left you all alone, show some sympathy man.

[homer jay]

The Troubles?

heh heh. yeah, that was the night we crossed the border for the first time. i'll tell ya what.....we really matured as a town.

[STEVIEG]

heh heh. yeah, that was the night we crossed the border for the first time. i'll tell ya what.....we really matured as a town.

Class!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KolaKubes]

Besiktas are the new Dynamo Berlin.

[ho chi feen]

1 European Cup in 20 years.

Could you imagine Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc putting up with a manager who has that European record ?

I dunno, how many European cups have Bayern and Juve won in the last 20 years, E? Incredibly, Barca and Juve have only 2 in their history, same as United. Milan and Real are in a different bracket to the rest of Europe.

That said, Milan- they've only won 2 domestic titles in the past 11 seasons and they've been fairly stable in managerial terms (exception being 1996-1998, and when they hired Terim and fired him 6 weeks later in 2001). I don't rememer Juve sacking any coaches, and the few coaches that Bayern have sacked have been down to poor league performances rather than failure to win European silverware.

Real sacked the coach who won them their first European Cup in 32 years, as well as the only man who had the humility and intelligence to make the Galacticos equate to the sum of their parts- a man who won 2 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues in less than three-and-a-half years in charge. That, and the fact that they're more interested in undermining than supporting managers, is why the recently went 4 years without winning so much as a mickey mouse trophy (and sacked the man who won that too), and why they've only won the league 4 times in the last 18 years. Do you reckon that's the most sensible way to run a club? I don't.


*edit*

I'd like more European Cups too, but there's a balance. Some of these other clubs mentioned have fallen way short. Real are the only ones whose European record has compensated for domestic mediocrity, and even that wasn't enough for the fans/board. In absence of more European Cups, I'll gladly take relentless and sustained success.

[ebenezer]

Besiktas are the new Dynamo Berlin.

:o

Not unless they win 10 consecutive titles.

[ebenezer]

I dunno, how many European cups have Bayern and Juve won in the last 20 years, E? Incredibly, Barca and Juve have only 2 in their history, same as United. Milan and Real are in a different bracket to the rest of Europe.

That said, Milan- they've only won 2 domestic titles in the past 11 seasons and they've been fairly stable in managerial terms (exception being 1996-1998, and when they hired Terim and fired him 6 weeks later in 2001). I don't rememer Juve sacking any coaches, and the few coaches that Bayern have sacked have been down to poor league performances rather than failure to win European silverware.

Real sacked the coach who won them their first European Cup in 32 years, as well as the only man who had the humility and intelligence to make the Galacticos equate to the sum of their parts- a man who won 2 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues in less than three-and-a-half years in charge. That, and the fact that they're more interested in undermining than supporting managers, is why the recently went 4 years without winning so much as a mickey mouse trophy (and sacked the man who won that too), and why they've only won the league 4 times in the last 18 years. Do you reckon that's the most sensible way to run a club? I don't.

I read the first few lines. Those teams haven't had the same manager for 20 years. If they did and he had Ferguson's European record, the manager would be SACKED.

[jimmy magee]

20+ years of experience,,,,,, Owen Hargreaves £17, 000, 000

[ho chi feen]

I read the first few lines. Those teams haven't had the same manager for 20 years.

And they've all been less successful as a result- with the exception of Real, by dint of 3 CLs but only 3 league titles.

I'll put it to you again, name me a single Milan, Juve, Bayern or Barca coach who was sacked for European rather than domestic failure?

Real sacked Del Bosque, and spent 4 long years paying the price.

[ebenezer]

And they've all been less successful as a result- with the exception of Real, by dint of 3 CLs but only 3 league titles.


Incorrect, Juventus have won 2 European Cups, AC Milan have won 5.

[STEVIEG]

How many of these much wanked upon clubs have won so many domestic titles in the last 10 or 20 years???

Someone pull up some stats i'd say it could be interesting

[xvis]

I read the first few lines. Those teams haven't had the same manager for 20 years. If they did and he had Ferguson's European record, the manager would be SACKED.

Ferguson and English clubs have only been eligible for 17 seasons in Ferguson's reign.



I don't think any of the managers of Real, Barca, Juve, Milan or Bayern would be sacked if they had won more trophies in 20 years than in the entire remaining history of the club.

[ebenezer]

I'm going home now. The fact of the matter is that a manager of a 'big club' with only 1 European Cup win to his name in 20 years, is simply not good enough.

[ho chi feen]

Incorrect, Juventus have won 2 European Cups, AC Milan have won 5.

In the last decade? I think not.

[STEVIEG]

I'm going home now. The fact of the matter is that a manager of a 'big club' with only 1 European Cup win to his name in 20 years, is simply not good enough.

9 league titles

Nuff said

[ho chi feen]

I'm going home now. The fact of the matter is that a manager of a 'big club' with only 1 European Cup win to his name in 20 years, is simply not good enough.

9 League titles, 4 FA Cups, 3 Doubles, one third-rate domestic Cup and a Champions League in 14 years is good going by anyone's measure.

[xvis]

I'm going home now. The fact of the matter is that a manager of a 'big club' with only 1 European Cup win to his name in 20 years, is simply not good enough.


9 Leagues
1 European Cup
1 ECWC
5 FA Cups
2 League Cups
1 Intercontinental

is good enough.

[xvis]

9 League titles, 4 FA Cups, 3 Doubles, one third-rate domestic Cup and a Champions League in 14 years is good going by anyone's measure.

snap ...kinda.

[Edmund Blackwater]

9 Leagues
1 European Cup
1 ECWC
5 FA Cups
2 League Cups
1 Intercontinental

is good enough.
come on.
FFS!

[STEVIEG]

How many of these much wanked upon clubs have won so many domestic titles in the last 10 or 20 years???

Someone pull up some stats i'd say it could be interesting

In Spain

Where two teams dominate

Both Barca and Real Madrid have won 8 titles each since Fergie became United boss (giving Fergie the Lamps/Wenger leeway of a bedding in in his first season season since he joined in November 1986)

Fergie has 9

Italy i'd say would prove even more conclusively that the United supremo, Euro dissapointments notwitstanding, has been an incredible manager

And you can't even use the money arguments here either as these clubs spend cash like Martin Edwards in a Brazilian brottle

[ho chi feen]

How many of these much wanked upon clubs have won so many domestic titles in the last 10 or 20 years???

Someone pull up some stats i'd say it could be interesting

Real- 4 since 1990. (4 in a row immediately before that).

Milan- only 2 since 1996 (had won three in a row before from 1991-94, as well as 1989 and 1988 )

Barca- pretty good. Four in a row from 1991-94, again 1998, 1999, 2005, 2006. Terminated Cruff's contract in 1996 for going without the league for 2 years, Van Gaal in 2000 for going trophyless and the fact that they hated him, a few other coaches for being gash in the league. Total of 8 there.

Juve- very good. Leagues in 1995, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003- 2005 and 2006 don't count though. That makes 5.

Bayern- too many to mention, as you'd expect.

I don't recall Juve, Bayern, Barcelona or Milan sacking any coaches for failing to win Euro Cups, but I'm open to correction- except that I'm right on this.

[xvis]

come on.
FFS!

my personal favourite.



[..only English side to ever win it]

[STEVIEG]

my personal favourite.



[..only English side to ever win it]

Keane scored the winner too

Best player on the planet?

at tha time he must have been

Nah seriously this is Houllier-esque and means jack shit:)

[xvis]

Nah seriously this is Houllier-esque and means jack shit:)

...Intercontinental Champions, ...the Champion Cup of Europe and South America 1999.



happy days, no?



..plus I think they threw in a new Toyota car as well.



sweet.

[xvis]

It's just a shame Liverpool with their 5 European Cups have never won the Intercontinental Cup.


....how rattled was Rafa in Tokyo?

he was still going on about the ref years afterwards.

[STEVIEG]

..plus I think they threw in a new Toyota car as well.




a great year for everyone

Except Jill Dando, various PROC board members and

http://i24.tinypic.com/15nwsye.jpg

[STEVIEG]

It's


....how rattled was Rafa in Tokyo?

he was still going on about the ref years afterwards.

Houllier once won 5 trophies in a year

FACT

Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley had nothing on that guy

[Lee Bushwacker]

21:p

:D
Well said lad. 6th November 1986 for anyone who didn't know!

[Lee Bushwacker]

a mediocre manger whose achievements will enhanced by the fact he was operating in a time when the premiership was in transition
Drop dead dickhead!

[Lee Bushwacker]

Hair

Nah decent enough player but the ermegence of Beckham kept his opportunities to a minimum

Proved he was a good player after united and went on to have an okay career, but not United quality really
:rolleyes:
Good post. It's easy known that "Crapwater" is at it again!!!

[KolaKubes]

Ehm, the Intercontinental Cup is well worth winning.

The River Plate team that tried to murder Utd seemed to think so anyway.

[STEVIEG]

Ehm, the Intercontinental Cup is well worth winning.

The River Plate team that tried to murder Utd seemed to think so anyway.

More to South American clubs, with a traditional inferiority complex to the big European money-bags teams who regularly steal their best players

[Lee Bushwacker]

Don't know about the rest, but winning 2 of them wasn't good enough to keep del Bosque in a job

:evil:
Listen "Crapwater" if you can't understand Ferguson's achievements at both United and Aberdeen why don't you become a nun.
AVONDHU or AVONDON'T???

[Lee Bushwacker]

At Arsenal.
Where he's very "cosy" ie. under no pressure to win titles!!!

[Lee Bushwacker]

Ferguson has never presided over a truly great european side,
:rolleyes:
Forrest a great European side?
They won the European Cup at it's lowest point. Look at what they played in the two finals!
How many First Division titles did that Forrest team win? Answer = 1.

[KolaKubes]

:rolleyes:
Forrest a great European side?
They won the European Cup at it's lowest point. Look at what they played in the two finals!
How many First Division titles did that Forrest team win? Answer = 1.

Weakest the competition had ever been.

[xvis]

Weakest the competition had ever been.


...a bit harsh. As someone else said, the other nations were pretty strong compared to now.

However, the Italiens self-imposed ban on foreigners throughout the 70's certainly weakened them on the European Stage.

[KolaKubes]

...a bit harsh. As someone else said, the other nations were pretty strong compared to now.

However, the Italiens self-imposed ban on foreigners throughout the 70's certainly weakened them on the European Stage.

Noone's going to convince me that Malmo could ever produce a great side.

[ho chi feen]

And for all the talk of Eastern Europe having some great sides back then, none of them won the cup, or even made the final- only Steaua & Red Star did that, and that was after Heysel.

[AmadeusDC]

Noone's going to convince me that Malmo could ever produce a great side.

Kiev had a great side as recently as the late 90's. Porto and Monaco FFS fought it out in a final a few years back!! Red Star had an unreal team in 91....... what's to say Malmo couldn't have had a very strong side back then?

btw I'm well aware that I'll end up arguing for and against each side of this debate by the time this thread dies out. -AmadeusDC-

[ho chi feen]

Kiev had a great side as recently as the late 90's. Porto and Monaco FFS fought it out in a final a few years back!! Red Star had an unreal team in 91....... what's to say Malmo couldn't have had a very strong side back then?

btw I'm well aware that I'll end up arguing for and against each side of this debate by the time this thread dies out. -AmadeusDC-

If Yugoslavia were able to compete in 1992, they'd have won the European Championships. I'd even go so far as to say that in 1994, they'd have had the best squad in the world, so that would acount for Red Star anyway.

I'm curious as to who Malmo had who was anyone... I can only recall one real player of note, but his name escapes me....

Monaco and Porto come form strong and strongish leagues with pedigree, and are both sides with good pedigree of their own.

[xvis]

And for all the talk of Eastern Europe having some great sides back then, none of them won the cup, or even made the final- only Steaua & Red Star did that, and that was after Heysel.

This is a great website for recalling European Cups of old, and evaluating the stories behind each years competition.


Highly recommended reading...

http://www.europeancuphisto ry.com/

http://www.europeancuphisto ry.com/euro79.html
http://www.europeancuphisto ry.com/euro80.html

Forest's titles are well merited.

..some excellent stories on Ajax and others from the sixties and seventies.

[xvis]

I'm curious as to who Malmo had who was anyone... I can only recall one real player of note, but his name escapes me....



Check out the link I posted ...Malmo were missing a lot of their best players for the final as well.

[STEVIEG]

Forest's titles are well merited.



Agreed

They had a terrific team


At the time i was quite young but ESPN and other channels have repeated a lot of these games a lot

in fact, i think ESPN is run by a Forest fan!

[Edmund Blackwater]

Kiev had a great side as recently as the late 90's. Porto and Monaco FFS fought it out in a final a few years back!! Red Star had an unreal team in 91....... what's to say Malmo couldn't have had a very strong side back then?

btw I'm well aware that I'll end up arguing for and against each side of this debate by the time this thread dies out. -AmadeusDC-
look at the people denigrating the competition back then...manyoo fans, who are quite possibly the least knowledgeable fans in football. one of them has confessed he only started watching football when Sky invented it and jumped on the bandwagon of manyoo.
these fools do not realise that the perceived weaker leagues had very strong teams in them then. the likes of St. Etienne, Brugges, Hamburg, Borussia Moenchengladbach, Hadjuk Split, Ajax and so on were superb teams and were Champions of their leagues.
The inability of manyoo to qualify for the tournament has coloured the opinion of their fans. But rest assured that if they had won one back then, they'd recognise these teams as excellent sides...or at least the ones they'd beaten.

[KolaKubes]

look at the people denigrating the competition back then...manyoo fans, who are quite possibly the least knowledgeable fans in football. one of them has confessed he only started watching football when Sky invented it and jumped on the bandwagon of manyoo.
these fools do not realise that the perceived weaker leagues had very strong teams in them then. the likes of St. Etienne, Brugges, Hamburg, Borussia Moenchengladbach, Hadjuk Split, Ajax and so on were superb teams and were Champions of their leagues.
The inability of manyoo to qualify for the tournament has coloured the opinion of their fans. But rest assured that if they had won one back then, they'd recognise these teams as excellent sides...or at least the ones they'd beaten.

The famous St Etienne side, yes. :rolleyes:

You know there was a time when I'd have said it was a pity that clubs like Forest are down in the third division but it's funny watching you get more and more bitter as the years go on.

[Edmund Blackwater]

The famous St Etienne side, yes. :rolleyes:.
The prosecution rests, m'lud.

[ho chi feen]

look at the people denigrating the competition back then...manyoo fans, who are quite possibly the least knowledgeable fans in football. one of them has confessed he only started watching football when Sky invented it and jumped on the bandwagon of manyoo.
these fools do not realise that the perceived weaker leagues had very strong teams in them then. the likes of St. Etienne, Brugges, Hamburg, Borussia Moenchengladbach, Hadjuk Split, Ajax and so on were superb teams and were Champions of their leagues.
The inability of manyoo to qualify for the tournament has coloured the opinion of their fans. But rest assured that if they had won one back then, they'd recognise these teams as excellent sides...or at least the ones they'd beaten.

France, Germany, Holland, Portugal and the Soviet Union (for now, read Russia & Ukraine) all had good leagues back then, just as they do now. Places like Sweden, Yugoslavia and Romania were all capable of producing good- occasionally excellent- sides. But then, as now, the competitions were dominated by the bigger leagues: namely England, Italy, Spain and Germany. The lists of winners (and finalists) is testament to this. Countries like East Germany, with some exceptions, Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary (outside of the 50s), Switzerland and so forth did not- just as they do now- produce good club sides. Other countries that produce good sides nowadays (Greece, Turkey, Norway) did not back then.

I know it's an awfully crude generalisation to make, but the fact is that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place sides of most of the 'bigger' leagues back then were better sides than the champions of most other nations- I'd wager probably all with the exception of maybe the top 8 leagues at any given time. Just as it is now.

Although the talent pool (Europe relative to South America, Europe's top leagues in comparison to the rest) has become more concentrated than ever in recent times, this is nothing new. Italian, Spanish and Portuguese clubs were already aggressively recruiting foreign talent back in the 50s, just like the Germans in the 70s (allied with their own strength in depth).

Am I incorrect on any of this?

[KolaKubes]

The prosecution rests, m'lud.

I want you to explain to me how these less illustrious names were, in reality, chock a block with supremely talented footballers.

Remembering now like a good chap that I've actually seen replays of these finals in the past and thought them pretty fucking shite affairs.

[ho chi feen]

I want you to explain to me how these less illustrious names were, in reality, chock a block with supremely talented footballers.

Remembering now like a good chap that I've actually seen replays of these finals in the past and thought them pretty fucking shite affairs.

St Etienne had a great side back in the late 70s/Early 80s. I might be mistaken, but I believe Platini played for them.

No French side (except Marseilles in 1993 and PSG in the cup winners cup in 1996) has ever won a European trophy, but they've always had good sides.

[Eau Rouge]

St Etienne also had that No 1 song "He's on the Phone".

ohh...ahm, wrong forum...

[Lamps]

And for all the talk of Eastern Europe having some great sides back then, none of them won the cup, or even made the final- only Steaua & Red Star did that, and that was after Heysel.

Fair enough but people are judging them by todays standards,
Liverpool were hammered by Dynamo Tiblsi in the early eighties when they were at their peak, Forest as holders were put out and hammered by Cska Sofia. Thats what I'm saying.

I remember reading an artcile by Tommy Smith saying something in the same vein a few years back, the top teams in these countries were very very good outfits.

[KolaKubes]

Fair enough but people are judging them by todays standards,
Liverpool were hammered by Dynamo Tiblsi in the early eighties when they were at their peak, Forest as holders were put out and hammered by Cska Sofia. Thats what I'm saying.

I remember reading an artcile by Tommy Smith saying something in the same vein a few years back, the top teams in these countries were very very good outfits.

Fair enough, though I suspect Tommy Smith saying something along the lines of "We didn't half beat some shite on the way to those European Cups" would be more of a story.

Old football was rubbish anyway.

Forget your Pele, the 21st Century is Ronaldo's.

[Lamps]

Other countries that produce good sides nowadays (Greece, Turkey, Norway) did not back then.

I know it's an awfully crude generalisation to make, but the fact is that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place sides of most of the 'bigger' leagues back then were better sides than the champions of most other nations- I'd wager probably all with the exception of maybe the top 8 leagues at any given time. Just as it is now.

Although the talent pool (Europe relative to South America, Europe's top leagues in comparison to the rest) has become more concentrated than ever in recent times, this is nothing new. Italian, Spanish and Portuguese clubs were already aggressively recruiting foreign talent back in the 50s, just like the Germans in the 70s (allied with their own strength in depth).

Am I incorrect on any of this?

I'd say your half right though I'd have to check the stats, the very top players always left, but I'd guess that most of the others stayed.

How many of the players in the top European leagues are native to that country now? Must be down around 40% in the premiership, probably a little higher elsewhere. I can't believe that it was anywhere near that previously, even at the very big clubs.

ps Panathinaikos got to a final in the 70's. Thats one final less than ManYoo. Couldn't resist.

[Lamps]

Fair enough, though I suspect Tommy Smith saying something along the lines of "We didn't half beat some shite on the way to those European Cups" would be more of a story.

Old football was rubbish anyway.

Forget your Pele, the 21st Century is Ronaldo's.

We get it Kola.

You don't get it

[Lamps]

The famous St Etienne side, yes. :rolleyes:



No point of reference

[Edmund Blackwater]

Laughable really.
But real football fans having read the previous few pages of manyooers, with no clue of anything before football was invented and very little since, agreeing with each other that anything before they started winning was shite and tarnished because of that, have had it reinforced again why they are such odious fools.

I always wondered if it was so easy to win the European Cup, how come the biggest club in the world didn't win a few back then.
Maybe it was too easy, so they didn't bother.

[homer jay]

Laughable really.
But real football fans having read the previous few pages of manyooers, with no clue of anything before football was invented and very little since, agreeing with each other that anything before they started winning was shite and tarnished because of that, have had it reinforced again why they are such odious fools.

I always wondered if it was so easy to win the European Cup, how come the biggest club in the world didn't win a few back then.
Maybe it was too easy, so they didn't bother.

ouch! cutting a little close to the truth there ed. bumslappers wont like this.

[Lamps]

Anyone ever hear of a club called Videoton?

[Professor Piehead]

Laughable really.
But real football fans having read the previous few pages of manyooers, with no clue of anything before football was invented and very little since, agreeing with each other that anything before they started winning was shite and tarnished because of that, have had it reinforced again why they are such odious fools.

I always wondered if it was so easy to win the European Cup, how come the biggest club in the world didn't win a few back then.
Maybe it was too easy, so they didn't bother.

They've only won one since the 60's FFS.

[marco 2005]

St Etienne had a great side back in the late 70s/Early 80s. I might be mistaken, but I believe Platini played for them.

No French side (except Marseilles in 1993 and PSG in the cup winners cup in 1996) has ever won a European trophy, but they've always had good sides.

A bit of education then.

St-Etienne aka Les Verts won 10 leagues (mainly between 1964 and 76) and 6cups and lost that infamous European Cup final versus Bayen Munich in 76.

They seen great players throughout the years: Rocheteau, Platini, Batiston, Genghini, Larque, Jacquet (wasnt one of the best players but got France its 1st WC) and more recently Coupet, Sagnol, Blanc.

[Lamps]

A bit of education then.

St-Etienne aka Les Verts won 10 leagues (mainly between 1964 and 76) and 6cups and lost that infamous European Cup final versus Bayen Munich in 76.

They seen great players throughout the years: Rocheteau, Platini, Batiston, Genghini, Larque, Jacquet (wasnt one of the best players but got France its 1st WC) and more recently Coupet, Sagnol, Blanc.

Kola won't like that. That was a poor Bayern team too.;)

[Lee Bushwacker]

I'd say your half right though I'd have to check the stats, the very top players always left, but I'd guess that most of the others stayed.

How many of the players in the top European leagues are native to that country now? Must be down around 40% in the premiership, probably a little higher elsewhere. I can't believe that it was anywhere near that previously, even at the very big clubs.

ps Panathinaikos got to a final in the 70's. Thats one final less than ManYoo. Couldn't resist.

:silly:
Shows what cuold get to finals back then.
Would they have got to a Champion's League Final though???

[Professor Piehead]

The best teams, nay, those worthy to call themselves great teams, win back to back European cups, FACT.

[Lamps]

:silly:
Shows what cuold get to finals back then.
Would they have got to a Champion's League Final though???

So I take it that you think Liverpool of 2005 were a great team?

[Lamps]

The best teams, nay, those worthy to call themselves great teams, win back to back European cups, FACT.

wholeheartedly agree with that.

think most sensible people would.

[marco 2005]

Kola won't like that. That was a poor Bayern team too.;)

Damn right, crap team, crap players, no class:)

[STEVIEG]

Anyone ever hear of a club called Videoton?

I remember them well


United were terrible back then

[ebenezer]

If any doubt still remains about the calibre of the Forest side that went on to be European greats, take 2 minutes to watch a vintage performance at Old Trafford from the championship winning season of 77/78.

bEeLEQjcIfs&rel=1

[KolaKubes]

A bit of education then.

St-Etienne aka Les Verts won 10 leagues (mainly between 1964 and 76) and 6cups and lost that infamous European Cup final versus Bayen Munich in 76.

They seen great players throughout the years: Rocheteau, Platini, Batiston, Genghini, Larque, Jacquet (wasnt one of the best players but got France its 1st WC) and more recently Coupet, Sagnol, Blanc.

I read all that.

That wouldn't even put them in the same class as Celtic, Porto or Rangers.

More's the point, I've seen re-runs of these games and both teams looked shocking. Not something you could say about Utd in 1968 for me or Brazil in '70. Do people remember Match of the Seventies and Match of the Eighties? I thought the standard was way way down in the Eighties.

[Professor Piehead]

If any doubt still remains about the calibre of the Forest side that went on to be European greats, take 2 minutes to watch a vintage performance at Old Trafford from the championship winning season of 77/78.

bEeLEQjcIfs&rel=1

In fairness ebenezer, yoonited were still rebuilding then, they weren't long out of the second division.

[ebenezer]

In fairness ebenezer, yoonited were still rebuilding then, they weren't long out of the second division.

We were out of the second division 5 months.

[STEVIEG]

The fact that Forests best ever team, who I have already credited for being a great team, gave a poor United team the run-around is hardly revolutionary news.......

[ebenezer]

The fact that Forests best ever team, who I have already credited for being a great team, gave a poor United team the run-around is hardly revolutionary news.......

It is for Mr Kubes. ;)

[STEVIEG]

It is for Mr Kubes. ;)

Yes, well he is different i suppose

[Lamps]

I read all that.

That wouldn't even put them in the same class as Celtic, Porto or Rangers.

More's the point, I've seen re-runs of these games and both teams looked shocking. Not something you could say about Utd in 1968 for me or Brazil in '70. Do people remember Match of the Seventies and Match of the Eighties? I thought the standard was way way down in the Eighties.

You don't have a clue Pubes, Ajax and Bayern are regarded as two of the greatest sides of all time.

[Lamps]

We were out of the second division 5 months.

Great stuff, ebenezer.

What do you make of the SFI?

[STEVIEG]

Ajax and Bayern are regarded as two of the greatest sides of all time.

With good reason too


Sure there were a few weaker teams back then but the Liverpool and Forest teams of the late 70's were excellent aswell

There are plenty of average teams now too

Villareal knocked out United and pushed Arsenal close in 2006
Liverpool were an ordinary team in 2005 (in 2007 they were better but nothing too amazing)
Monaco were decent but not amazing in 2004, Porto were hardly a "Great" team

Even that Valencia team that got to a few finals is looking more ordinary as time passes

[Lamps]

With good reason too


Sure there were a few weaker teams back then but the Liverpool and Forest teams of the late 70's were excellent aswell

There are plenty of average teams now too

Villareal knocked out United and pushed Arsenal close in 2006
Liverpool were an ordinary team in 2005 (in 2007 they were better but nothing too amazing)
Monaco were decent but not amazing in 2004, Porto were hardly a "Great" team

Even that Valencia team that got to a few finals is looking more ordinary as time passes

Yup, all true.

Nice to see a bit of objectivity. Take note Pubes, and Stevie has been watching soccer a lot a longer than you.

[marco 2005]

With good reason too

Porto were hardly a "Great" team




agreed, but they had the special 1 ;)

[ebenezer]

Great stuff, ebenezer.

What do you make of the SFI?

Probably the greatest organisation in internet history.

[Lamps]

Probably the greatest organisation in internet history.

You'll be kept good sir:D

[Edmund Blackwater]

Yup, all true.

Nice to see a bit of objectivity. Take note Pubes, and Stevie has been watching soccer a lot a longer than you.

I've been more impressed with stevie lately, I must admit.
he is approaching objectivity at times.

Bula Bos.

[Lamps]

I've been more impressed with stevie lately, I must admit.
he is approaching objectivity at times.

Bula Bos.

matured as a bumslapper perhaps

[Professor Piehead]

We were out of the second division 5 months.

I knew that, I was having a dig at yoonited if you read the post properly.

[ebenezer]

I knew that, I was having a dig at yoonited if you read the post properly.

I believe you. :-?

[Lamps]

I believe you. :-?

go easy on him, Flop got banned and he hasn't been himself

[ebenezer]

Well, if it's any consolation, FRAP will be back. You will just have to work out under what guise. I believe he will reveal himself inadvertently within 200 posts.

[Professor Piehead]

I believe you. :-?

I was originaly having a pop at united as you know, for the Forest fact, I just googled as you and the rest of the 'SFI' do and pass it off as 'knowledge'.

[Professor Piehead]

Well, if it's any consolation, FRAP will be back. You will just have to work out under what guise. I believe he will reveal himself inadvertently within 200 posts.

Lads, talk about obsession.

[Lamps]

I was originaly having a pop at united as you know, for the Forest fact, I just googled as you and the rest of the 'SFI' do and pass it off as 'knowledge'.

some things you can google, some you can't, for that and everything else, there's the SFI

[Professor Piehead]

some things you can google, some you can't, for that and everything else, there's the SFI

:lol!:

One love old boy, one love.

[ebenezer]

I was originaly having a pop at united as you know, for the Forest fact, I just googled as you and the rest of the 'SFI' do and pass it off as 'knowledge'.

Considering your comment was posted at 11.37 and my reply was clocked at 11.38, I don't think there was time to 'google.'

[Professor Piehead]

Considering your comment was posted at 11.37 and my reply was clocked at 11.38, I don't think there was time to 'google.'

A minutes plenty, especially if you have Forests honours on your favourites. :rolleyes:

[ho chi feen]

Fair enough but people are judging them by todays standards,
Liverpool were hammered by Dynamo Tiblsi in the early eighties when they were at their peak, Forest as holders were put out and hammered by Cska Sofia. Thats what I'm saying.

I remember reading an artcile by Tommy Smith saying something in the same vein a few years back, the top teams in these countries were very very good outfits.

Yeah, I'm aware of that... got hockeyed by Tblisi in the first round one year- but I've said myself already, the Soviet League was one of the better leagues. And Tbilisi, historically, were one of the stronger sides in Soviet football. It's not these sorts of side/countries that I'm calling weaker.

I did call Bulgarian football to be weaker though. Was that a one-off for CSKA? Who else did they beat back around then?

[ho chi feen]

I'd say your half right though I'd have to check the stats, the very top players always left, but I'd guess that most of the others stayed.

How many of the players in the top European leagues are native to that country now? Must be down around 40% in the premiership, probably a little higher elsewhere. I can't believe that it was anywhere near that previously, even at the very big clubs.

ps Panathinaikos got to a final in the 70's. Thats one final less than ManYoo. Couldn't resist.

They did indeed, but Greek football lived off that for years. The national team (and its league) were rubbish until the early-to-mid nineties.

[Edmund Blackwater]

The point is, that the likes of Kola know nothing about football before Sky invented it for him.
He thinks the current status quo has akways been the way it was.
the reality though is very difeerent. If an 80s manyoo got into the European cup, they'd have been hammered out the gate by the very teams he thinks are no marks in European competition.
How many UEFA cups have the brilliant manyoo won before it became not shit?
How many European trophies including the cwc have they won before it became not shit?

Probably couldn't be bothered because it ould have been too easy if they tried a leg.

[Lamps]

Probably couldn't be bothered because it ould have been too easy if they tried a leg.

Stevie once told me that United didn't try in those two competitions because United as a club were only interested in the big one, even back then. I'm hoping he's has matured enough to now see sense.

Kola is not considered a serious poster on such matters, but even so he needs to be shown the error of his ways from time to time.

[Lamps]

I did call Bulgarian football to be weaker though. Was that a one-off for CSKA? Who else did they beat back around then?

I got this from the rssf site but they knocked out the champions on 3 occasions around this time, Ajax, Forest and Liverpool.

Mightn't have won the thing but you get my point about eastern european teams being a different kettle of fish back then.

[Rebelred]

I got this from the rssf site but they knocked out the champions on 3 occasions around this time, Ajax, Forest and Liverpool.

Mightn't have won the thing but you get my point about eastern european teams being a different kettle of fish back then.

agree with you, before the fall of the Berlin wall, the communist countries had strong leagues, meaning they were often competitive in the European Cup. Even right up to the end, and for a short period afterwards, you had sides like Steau and Red Star Belgrade competing in finals and winning it.

Once Yugoslavia broke up (after Boban's kick on the cop), and communism was in ruins, these countries all suffered when their tops stars all moved to the top leagues around Europe.

P.S United weren't within an asses roar of a European Cup in the 70's or 80's

[Lamps]

agree with you, before the fall of the Berlin wall, the communist countries had strong leagues, meaning they were often competitive in the European Cup. Even right up to the end, and for a short period afterwards, you had sides like Steau and Red Star Belgrade competing in finals and winning it.

Once Yugoslavia broke up (after Boban's kick on the cop), and communism was in ruins, these countries all suffered when their tops stars all moved to the top leagues around Europe.

P.S United weren't within an asses roar of a European Cup in the 70's or 80's

Kola won't like that one bit.

[Actin The Sham]

look at the people denigrating the competition back then...manyoo fans, who are quite possibly the least knowledgeable fans in football. one of them has confessed he only started watching football when Sky invented it and jumped on the bandwagon of manyoo.
these fools do not realise that the perceived weaker leagues had very strong teams in them then. the likes of St. Etienne, Brugges, Hamburg, Borussia Moenchengladbach, Hadjuk Split, Ajax and so on were superb teams and were Champions of their leagues.
The inability of manyoo to qualify for the tournament has coloured the opinion of their fans. But rest assured that if they had won one back then, they'd recognise these teams as excellent sides...or at least the ones they'd beaten.


The most unpopular man in soccer is their fan who stands on the terraces at their home games and starts off "Give me a 'B'....."

[STEVIEG]

Stevie once told me that United didn't try in those two competitions because United as a club were only interested in the big one, even back then. I'm hoping he's has matured enough to now see sense.
.

I've never rated the UEFA Cup myself and argued that the CWC was bigger
Both were inferior to the big one but since so few teams were in the big one then, the divide wasn't as great

It's always had a special resonance at United, who were basically a Cup team back then and who weren't in the European Cup for obvious reasons

The Cup Winners Cup campaign of 1984 holds a special nostalgia for United fans, as they beat a decent Barca with Maradonna 3-0 at Old Trafford, after being 2 down in the first leg

I was over there quite a bit as kid at this time, and though I wasn't at that game but it was said to be the best atmosphere of the last 30 years or so at the ground

An injury hit united were unlucky to lose to Juve in the semi
The ECWC was a big deal back then and even in 1991, but title success brought greater expectation, and slowly but surely, United have managed to claw back respect on the European stage

Stll a poor return, but they are not pushovers and they are not a team big teams like drawing I would think

Personally, I would like Milan to be drawn against United this year again

I think they are learning but we shall see

It's a a hard comp to call

After United did the unthinkable and failed to make it out of their group in 2005, i argued that the UEFA Cup was beneath them and waste of time (for them, not necessarily lessor clubs), and i stand by that

I even heard Liverpool fans saying the same before the 8-0

For certain clubs, the European Cup is the only one worth it these days outside the domestic leagues

[Lamps]

The most unpopular man in soccer is their fan who stands on the terraces at their home games and starts off "Give me a 'B'....."

:D

[ho chi feen]

The point is, that the likes of Kola know nothing about football before Sky invented it for him.
He thinks the current status quo has akways been the way it was.
the reality though is very difeerent. If an 80s manyoo got into the European cup, they'd have been hammered out the gate by the very teams he thinks are no marks in European competition.
How many UEFA cups have the brilliant manyoo won before it became not shit?
How many European trophies including the cwc have they won before it became not shit?

Probably couldn't be bothered because it ould have been too easy if they tried a leg.

I'd be surprised if they weren't. They were poor back then- a fact adequately reflected in their repeated domestic failure. Liverpool and Forest were both excellent sides back then. I'm not convinced about Villa at all though, for one. The English league was the dominant league back then, and regularly producing European Cup winners/finalists, as you'd expect. But most of their players were unheralded. 4 years later, they were relegated. I'm not sure how they were good enough to win the league in '82, perhaps Pool took their eye off the ball domestically that year. But once they did win it, they were in with a great shout to win the Europeanb Cup- and duly did so. That would count as a poor reflection on the overall standard IMHO.

I'm not saying any of this to say 'oh, it was crap back' or 'oh it's way better now', but I do think there is a wee bit more depth in the competition these days, which is why no team seems able to dominate it, or even win it back to back.

[Lamps]

I've never rated the UEFA Cup myself and argued that the CWC was bigger
Both were inferior to the big one but since so few teams were in the big one then, the divide wasn't as great

It's always had a special resonance at United, who were basically a Cup team back then and who weren't in the European Cup for obvious reasons

The Cup Winners Cup campaign of 1984 holds a special nostalgia for United fans, as they beat a decent Barca with Maradonna 3-0 at Old Trafford, after being 2 down in the first leg

I was over there quite a bit as kid at this time, and though I wasn't at that game but it was said to be the best atmosphere of the last 30 years or so at the ground

An injury hit united were unlucky to lose to Juve in the semi
The ECWC was a big deal back then and even in 1991, but title success brought greater expectation, and slowly but surely, United have managed to claw back respect on the European stage

Stll a poor return, but they are not pushovers and they are not a team big teams like drawing I would think

Personally, I would like Milan to be drawn against United this year again

I think they are learning but we shall see

It's a a hard comp to call

After United did the unthinkable and failed to make it out of their group in 2005, i argued that the UEFA Cup was beneath them and waste of time (for them, not necessarily lessor clubs), and i stand by that

I even heard Liverpool fans saying the same before the 8-0

For certain clubs, the European Cup is the only one worth it these days outside the domestic leagues

Don't confuse the old Uefa cup and former CWC with the Uefa cup these days. They were a big deal. The old Uefa cup was offically considered the 3rd competition but also was also harder to win than the CWC and probably more prestigious for most.

Tell me why you didn't rate it?
And you did the CWC

Genuine question

[ho chi feen]

I got this from the rssf site but they knocked out the champions on 3 occasions around this time, Ajax, Forest and Liverpool.

Mightn't have won the thing but you get my point about eastern european teams being a different kettle of fish back then.

You get these things though- occasionally a good team rises above. Look at Steaua, Shakthar, CSKA, Spartak, Rosenborg, FC Copenhagen, Basle etc in recent times. Dinamo Kiev a few years before. These instances tend to be fleeting (although with the money involved now, I think the Moscow clubs and Shakthar will be on the up-and-up for a good while yet) now, as much as then.

Eastern Europe produced some great clubs back then, but never won anything important pre-Heysel. It also produced many awful sides. Plus ca change.

*edit* you also have Steaua 1985-1989, and Red Star from 1989-91. Steaua were drawing on a superb generation of players who starred for Romania in the 90's. Red Star were drawing on a pool of players from Yugoslavia, who, if they had stayed together as a nation, would have been by far the best national team in Europe (possibly the world) in the 1990's, IMHO.

[STEVIEG]

.

Tell me why you didn't rate it?
And you did the CWC

Genuine question

Sorry, rating may be too strong a word

I always felt that a Cup with all the best cup teams in europe was kinda cool, and invaribaly threw up big European clubs like Juve, Barca and United, who at least had won something to get there

The UEFA Cup was a big deal don't get me wrong, and it's still a big deal to many teams now

[Lamps]

I'd be surprised if they weren't. They were poor back then- a fact adequately reflected in their repeated domestic failure. Liverpool and Forest were both excellent sides back then. I'm not convinced about Villa at all though, for one. The English league was the dominant league back then, and regularly producing European Cup winners/finalists, as you'd expect. But most of their players were unheralded. 4 years later, they were relegated. I'm not sure how they were good enough to win the league in '82, perhaps Pool took their eye off the ball domestically that year. But once they did win it, they were in with a great shout to win the Europeanb Cup- and duly did so. That would count as a poor reflection on the overall standard IMHO.

I'm not saying any of this to say 'oh, it was crap back' or 'oh it's way better now', but I do think there is a wee bit more depth in the competition these days, which is why no team seems able to dominate it, or even win it back to back.

Some fair points to be fair. I think the standards were dropping a bit by the mid-80's. Its tough to do but we must cut through the hype as well.


Everton would probably also have won one but for Heysel, and Liverpool would almost certainly have 2 if not 3 more.
The Liverpool team of the late 70's early 80's would be a damn sight better than anything around today. Just look at the crap Liverpool hoofball team of today that has reached 2 of the last 3 finals. Todays soccer it could be argued is at its lowest ebb since the mid 80's.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Don't confuse the old Uefa cup and former CWC with the Uefa cup these days. They were a big deal. The old Uefa cup was offically considered the 3rd competition but also was also harder to win than the CWC and probably more prestigious for most.

Tell me why you didn't rate it?
And you did the CWC

Genuine question
I never knew the UEFA cup was considered worse than the cwc.
For the simple reason that a team finishing second in it's domestic league is bound to be a better team than one that won the cup and, say finished 6th.
I always regarded the cwc as the poor relation.

[STEVIEG]

I never knew the UEFA cup was considered worse than the cwc.
For the simple reason that a team finishing second in it's domestic league is bound to be a better team than one that won the cup and, say finished 6th.
I always regarded the cwc as the poor relation.

A lot of people do

It's just personal opinion

Actually, i could be wrong here, but did a Cup winning team who won their cup go to the CWC or the UEFA Cup if they qualified for both?

Thought it was the CWC but could well be wrong

[Lamps]

I never knew the UEFA cup was considered worse than the cwc.
For the simple reason that a team finishing second in it's domestic league is bound to be a better team than one that won the cup and, say finished 6th.
I always regarded the cwc as the poor relation.

This was the general opinion of most people but the official line from Uefa was that it was the 3rd comp.

Uefa cup final was also a two legged affair which kind of took away from it.

[Rebelred]

Kola won't like that one bit.

I just call it like it was

[STEVIEG]

Everton would probably also have won one but for Heysel, and Liverpool would almost certainly have 2 if not 3 more.
T

Heysel cost Everton dearly but set United and Arsenal and others back too right up to the mid 90's

Munich probably cost United a few European Cups too, but how are we to know

[Lamps]

A lot of people do

It's just personal opinion

Actually, i could be wrong here, but did a Cup winning team who won their cup go to the CWC or the UEFA Cup if they qualified for both?

Thought it was the CWC but could well be wrong

they went to CWC, this took precedence as the 2nd comp.

But in those days it wasn't just the big four who won the cup, so you would get the likes of West Ham or if the ban wasn't there Coventry and Wimbeldon.

This is precisely why the Uefa cup was considered superior

[Edmund Blackwater]

Some fair points to be fair. I think the standards were dropping a bit by the mid-80's. Its tough to do but we must cut through the hype as well.


Everton would probably also have won one but for Heysel, and Liverpool would almost certainly have 2 if not 3 more.
The Liverpool team of the late 70's early 80's would be a damn sight better than anything around today. Just look at the crap Liverpool hoofball team of today that has reached 2 of the last 3 finals. Todays soccer it could be argued is at its lowest ebb since the mid 80's.
I'd agree with all of that.
In fact I'd go so far as to say that liverpool would still be dominating but for the ban post heysel.

[ho chi feen]

A lot of people do

It's just personal opinion

Actually, i could be wrong here, but did a Cup winning team who won their cup go to the CWC or the UEFA Cup if they qualified for both?

Thought it was the CWC but could well be wrong

They went into the CWC, which was officially designated the second ranked competition. The winners of the CWC used to play the winners of the EC for the European Super Cup.

But, with second and third places sides from all the big leagues- unless those sides had either won the domestic cup, CWC, or EC in the same year, which did happen- the UEFA was probably a stronger competition with more depth.

[STEVIEG]

This was the general opinion of most people but the official line from Uefa was that it was the 3rd comp.

Uefa cup final was also a two legged affair which kind of took away from it.

Well there's your answer really

It's all relative though

Times change

I remember being gutted than United lost a Milk Cup final to Liverpool in 83

When they lost the similar trophy a few years ago i didn't really care

[STEVIEG]

I'd agree with all of that.
In fact I'd go so far as to say that liverpool would still be dominating but for the ban post heysel.

Liverpool weren't even Champions when Heysel happened

It hit other clubs just as badly if not more

[Lamps]

Heysel cost Everton dearly but set United and Arsenal and others back too right up to the mid 90's

Munich probably cost United a few European Cups too, but how are we to know

fair enough.

Heysel cost Liverpool and Everton even moreso their chance at continued domination.

There were other circumstances too, like Hillsborough, but it was a key factor in Liverpool falling away

[homer jay]

A lot of people do

It's just personal opinion

Actually, i could be wrong here, but did a Cup winning team who won their cup go to the CWC or the UEFA Cup if they qualified for both?

Thought it was the CWC but could well be wrong

they went into the cwc as far as i can remember. i'd agree with ed above, i always considered the uefa cup a level above the cwc. but like yourself, there was a something special about the cwc which i liked.

[ho chi feen]

Some fair points to be fair. I think the standards were dropping a bit by the mid-80's. Its tough to do but we must cut through the hype as well.


Everton would probably also have won one but for Heysel, and Liverpool would almost certainly have 2 if not 3 more.
The Liverpool team of the late 70's early 80's would be a damn sight better than anything around today. Just look at the crap Liverpool hoofball team of today that has reached 2 of the last 3 finals. Todays soccer it could be argued is at its lowest ebb since the mid 80's.

Agree that both Pool and Everton has more ECs in them, but independtly of Heysel, the Italian and Spanish sides were beginning to get their act together (along with emerging Dutch sides) and I'd say that by 1990, Italian clubs would still have been entering a period of dominance.

[STEVIEG]

fair enough.

Heysel cost Liverpool and Everton even moreso their chance at continued domination.

There were other circumstances too, like Hillsborough, but it was a key factor in Liverpool falling away

And it took the likes of United in 1991 and Arsenal and other clubs later to re-establish any crediblity for Englsih teams in europe

United knocking on the door thoughout the 90's helped get extra places for poorer English teams too i think

[Lamps]

Liverpool weren't even Champions when Heysel happened

It hit other clubs just as badly if not more

They were european champs, and they won the double the year after.

So its a pretty moot point

[STEVIEG]

They were european champs, and they won the double the year after.

So its a pretty moot point

Everton had just won the league and the cup winners Cup i think

They were badly affected by Heysel

[Lamps]

Everton had just won the league and the cup winners Cup i think

They were badly affected by Heysel

did you read what I read Stevie, I said Everton were even more affected than Liverpool.

[STEVIEG]

did you read what I read Stevie, I said Everton were even more affected than Liverpool.

True, i was replying to your other point

It's all conjecture anyway

[RonnyB]

Lads this is vintage sportsforum debate. Wumming present but at a minimum, excellent knowledge & recollection, good points being thrown up by all. I've looked at this for a half hour & I've nothing to add cos ye've everything covered.

Take a bow.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Liverpool weren't even Champions when Heysel happened

It hit other clubs just as badly if not more
I'm aware of that.

but liverpool were operating from a position of dominance in England and europe and, no doubt, would have hoovered up alot of the more talented players arounf Europe from when the communist countries fell apart as well as attracting other players from abroad.
It brought them back to the rest, eventually, domestically and allowed a team like manyoo to develop players knowing that, even though liverpool were still more successful, they weren't benefitting substantially financially on account of missing out on European competition.

Didn't Liverpool also have to seve a year or two extra ban after the rest of the clubs were let back in?

Liverpool, more than any other english club, suffered because of this ban and they haven't really recovered.

[Rebelred]

I was some period of dominance all the same, for the late 70's on.

[STEVIEG]

Didn't Liverpool also have to seve a year or two extra ban after the rest of the clubs were let back in?

Liverpool, more than any other english club, suffered because of this ban and they haven't really recovered.


And arguably deservedly so but i don't wanna go there now

Heysel is a sensitive issue and rightly so

Nott's Forest weren't exactly over-the-moon after Hillsbourough either but these things happen

as i always say, if Bill Shankly had been around in the 80's, he would have taken back his "Football is more important than life or death " quote after those two terrible events

[Edmund Blackwater]

BTW, the point about Everton is well made. they had a fantastic team and, through no fault of their own, didn't get to launch waht would have been a strong challenge that year.

[Edmund Blackwater]

And arguably deservedly so but i don't wanna go there now
No, arguably about it.
I thought the length os ban was harsh, but they deserved a ban.
I didn't put it in earlie, becuse i didn't think it wa really relevant to the debate.

[STEVIEG]

No-one dominates forever

Interestingly, if Manchester United win the league this season or next they will have scooped 50% of titles available for the second decade in a row

A remarkable achievment these days and one comparable to Liverpools domestic form in the 70's and 80's

An addition of Champions League or two is still lacking though

[STEVIEG]

BTW, the point about Everton is well made. they had a fantastic team and, through no fault of their own, didn't get to launch waht would have been a strong challenge that year.

Yes

A lot of CWC and UEFA Cup winners were better set up for the Europena Cup the following season too if i remember

Much harder to bridge the UEFA and Champions League now, though Porto did it in fairness

[lionelhutz]

Lads this is vintage sportsforum debate. Wumming present but at a minimum, excellent knowledge & recollection, good points being thrown up by all. I've looked at this for a half hour & I've nothing to add cos ye've everything covered.

Take a bow.

jamie redknapp style post there. heh heh heh, triffic debate, triffic...

[Edmund Blackwater]

Yes

A lot of CWC and UEFA Cup winners were better set up for the Europena Cup the following season too if i remember

Much harder to bridge the UEFA and Champions League now, though Porto did it in fairness
Not sure we'll see it done again any time soon.
Sevilla won't do it and they're an excellent side.

[Professor Piehead]

Lads this is vintage sportsforum debate. Wumming present but at a minimum, excellent knowledge & recollection, good points being thrown up by all. I've looked at this for a half hour & I've nothing to add cos ye've everything covered.

Take a bow.

Good old google.

[STEVIEG]

Not sure we'll see it done again any time soon.
Sevilla won't do it and they're an excellent side.

Well the big reason is that nearly everyone worth their salt is in the Champs League i suppose

[Edmund Blackwater]

Well the big reason is that nearly everyone worth their salt is in the Champs League i suppose
Yeah.
You'd ned a superb team from one of the smaller leagues with maybe only 1 cl spot to win the UEFA and their own league(or UEFA to allocate that lague another spot on the strength of the UEFA win and them to come second) I think for it to happen again.

[STEVIEG]

Cork City will hopefully do it next year but we will see

[KolaKubes]

BTW, the point about Everton is well made. they had a fantastic team and, through no fault of their own, didn't get to launch waht would have been a strong challenge that year.

Whose fault was it?

[ho chi feen]

Whose fault was it?

1/10, Dr Kola.

Giving us bumslappers a bad name!

;)

[Lamps]

Whose fault was it?

when all is said and done you're a pretty weak poster

[Lamps]

1/10, Dr Kola.

Giving us bumslappers a bad name!

;)

he's getting into lee bumslapper st finbarr and general mick territory if you ask me

[ho chi feen]

he's getting into lee bumslapper st finbarr and general mick territory if you ask me

"AVODHNU" or "AVONDHON'T" you "sad cunt" you! :twisted:





















:)

[Lamps]

you've gotta love lee bumslapper, comes in freaks out in 6 threads, never responds to anyone, then disappears for about 8 hours,

repeat above ad nauseum.

looper

[ho chi feen]

you've gotta love lee bumslapper, comes in freaks out in 6 threads, never responds to anyone, then disappears for about 8 hours,

repeat above ad nauseum.

looper

He's the heir to the GMC throne. Guys like him make Fitzy seem like Mon or Sound!

[kevinbitzz]

you've gotta love lee bumslapper, comes in freaks out in 6 threads, never responds to anyone, then disappears for about 8 hours,

repeat above ad nauseum.

looper

He's the heir to the GMC throne. Guys like him make Fitzy seem like Mon or Sound!
:mrgreen:

Who da fuk do ye tink u r, fuckn cunts....

:evil:

[ebenezer]

:mad:
Bushwanker is an unbelievable character. Comes in when nobody else is here and goes absolutely berserk :twisted:, brandishing angry :evil: faces everywhere. One has to admire his eccentric attitude. :evil:

[KolaKubes]

1/10, Dr Kola.

Giving us bumslappers a bad name!

;)

It had to be said. ;)

[RonnyB]

jamie redknapp style post there. heh heh heh, triffic debate, triffic...

heh heh heh.

In many ways comparing 30 years ago to now is a case of running around in circles. In the modern era a team may have to play 4 or even 5 big named teams to win the comp, but unlike years ago you can afford to lose 2 games in the group stages today in most scenarios.

I like the present day Champions League but I think it needs something extra. a stronger group stage. The only way that'll happen though is if there are less games with Ho Chi has already said generates less money.

[Lamps]

Read somewhere yesterday that Fergie would back the limitation of foreigners that Blatter is proposing but that he can't see it happening because of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal.

Some neck on that lad.

[KolaKubes]

Read somewhere yesterday that Fergie would back the limitation of foreigners that Blatter is proposing but that he can't see it happening because of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal.

Some neck on that lad.


The limitation on foreigners being talked about wouldn't cause Utd any trouble.

[Lamps]

The limitation on foreigners being talked about wouldn't cause Utd any trouble.

Sure it wouldn't bumslapper

[KolaKubes]

Sure it wouldn't bumslapper

Twenty out of Thirty three players in the Utd first team squad are British or Irish chump.

I think Arsenal have about four or five tops.

[Rebelred]

Twenty out of Thirty three players in the Utd first team squad are British or Irish chump.

I think Arsenal have about four or five tops.

Surely Irish players would have to be classed as foreign???

[homer jay]

Surely Irish players would have to be classed as foreign???

not in this new age of maturation. ya give a little, ya get a little in return

[STEVIEG]

Read somewhere yesterday that Fergie would back the limitation of foreigners that Blatter is proposing but that he can't see it happening because of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal.

Some neck on that lad.

disagree with him on this, always have done

Think some of it is wumming Wenger to be honest

great to see them at it again

[STEVIEG]

Surely Irish players would have to be classed as foreign???

They were back in the 90's

[POL]

Arish = English