youth development of irish soccer

[liam2me]

i chatting to a young lad who was on the irish U-15 team, he told me that most of the lads in the squad were english players who weren't good enough to play for england so decided to use thier irish grandparents to play for ireland.

now i have 2 points to make about this, 1) if they aren't good enough for england why are they good enough for ireland? if irland want to be winning things they don't want to be using other nations cast offs

2) what kind of message does that send to a budding young home-grown talent?

[Sound]

i chatting to a young lad who was on the irish U-15 team, he told me that most of the lads in the squad were english players who weren't good enough to play for england so decided to use thier irish grandparents to play for ireland.

now i have 2 points to make about this, 1) if they aren't good enough for england why are they good enough for ireland? if irland want to be winning things they don't want to be using other nations cast offs

2) what kind of message does that send to a budding young home-grown talent?

Gleeson.
Manning.
Etc.
Etc.

[liam2me]

Gleeson.
Manning.
Etc.
Etc.
whats your point? i'm talking about soccer not rugby

[Sound]

whats your point? i'm talking about soccer not rugby

It means that all sports do it so why get on the back of soccer? NZ pillage the PI islands in rugby, Portugal have a naturalised Brazilian playing for them, France have different nations.

It happens in all codes in most countries so I dont think it's an issue.

[liam2me]

It means that all sports do it so why get on the back of soccer? NZ pillage the PI islands in rugby, Portugal have a naturalised Brazilian playing for them, France have different nations.

It happens in all codes in most countries so I dont think it's an issue.
i'm not talking about other countries either, and neither am i talking about players who decide to play for a country other than thier own because they feel they could be more succesful with that country, i'm talking about fella's who aren't good enough to make the grade elsewhere so they come to ireland as a back-up

[Forsberg]

i chatting to a young lad who was on the irish U-15 team, he told me that most of the lads in the squad were english players who weren't good enough to play for england so decided to use thier irish grandparents to play for ireland.

now i have 2 points to make about this, 1) if they aren't good enough for england why are they good enough for ireland? if irland want to be winning things they don't want to be using other nations cast offs

2) what kind of message does that send to a budding young home-grown talent?
Who's to say that these players aren't good enough. What percentage of players who play for England under 15 actually go on to play for the National team?

[Sound]

i'm not talking about other countries either, and neither am i talking about players who decide to play for a country other than thier own because they feel they could be more succesful with that country, i'm talking about fella's who aren't good enough to make the grade elsewhere so they come to ireland as a back-up

Again that's Gleeson, Manning etc. As a small nation in most sports we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces if we were to get too sniffy about this. Deco might not be good enough for the Brazilian midfield but he got further than they did in the WC as Portugal had a better team ethic.

[MonTheHoops]

i chatting to a young lad who was on the irish U-15 team, he told me that most of the lads in the squad were english players who weren't good enough to play for england so decided to use thier irish grandparents to play for ireland.

now i have 2 points to make about this, 1) if they aren't good enough for england why are they good enough for ireland? if irland want to be winning things they don't want to be using other nations cast offs

2) what kind of message does that send to a budding young home-grown talent?


Ok
1 - They are good enough for Ireland because England has a bigger pool to pick from. That's like asking why are France better than Ireland? they have a bigger pool to pick from. I don't think it's rocket science.

2 - What kind of message? Get better! Mediocrity won't be accepted?

[liam2me]

Again that's Gleeson, Manning etc. As a small nation in most sports we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces if we were to get too sniffy about this. Deco might not be good enough for the Brazilian midfield but he got further than they did in the WC as Portugal had a better team ethic.
but the difference there is, it is only 1 player on the portugese team, none or the irish rugby starting 15 were born outside the island of ireland. with the irish soccer team the majority are not irish born

[liam2me]

Ok
1 - They are good enough for Ireland because England has a bigger pool to pick from. That's like asking why are France better than Ireland? they have a bigger pool to pick from. I don't think it's rocket science.

2 - What kind of message? Get better! Mediocrity won't be accepted?
1. that doesn't always stand up to scrutiny. i'll use rugby as an example. england has 1,000,000 registered male players and 1,200 clubs. NZ has 120,000 registered players and 400 odd clubs yet the AB's are pissing all ove the english, in fact ireland has 80,000 registered players and 400 registered clubs and we're miles ahead of the english.

2, very true, but its hard for them to develop when they're being knocked back for a foreign player

[Sound]

but the difference there is, it is only 1 player on the portugese team, none or the irish rugby starting 15 were born outside the island of ireland. with the irish soccer team the majority are not irish born

That's factually incorrect.

Shay Given- Donegal
Stephen Carr- Donaghmede (Stan has talked him out of retirement)
Richard Dunne- Dublin
Andy O Brien- Dublin
Kilbane- Preston
Finnan- Limerick
O Shea- Waterford
S Reid- Kingston
R Keane- Dublin
D Duff- Dublin
K Doyle- Wexford

That's only two outside of Ireland.

[MonTheHoops]

1. that doesn't always stand up to scrutiny. i'll use rugby as an example. england has 1,000,000 registered male players and 1,200 clubs. NZ has 120,000 registered players and 400 odd clubs yet the AB's are pissing all ove the english, in fact ireland has 80,000 registered players and 400 registered clubs and we're miles ahead of the english.

2, very true, but its hard for them to develop when they're being knocked back for a foreign player

1 - New Zealand's national game is rugby. Ireland could claim to be world champions in hurling every year too because who's going to come near us? It can't be compared to rugby either because of the money situation changing in rugby over the past few years. In 30 years time there will be guys who weren't born in Ireland playing in the rugby jersey.

2 - If they are better, they won't be knocked back for foreign players. Do you think Roy Keane would have been sacrificed for Jason McAteer?

[Eoin]

As long as they give 100% after they declare for Ireland I couldn't give a fuck where they're from.

[homer jay]

2 - What kind of message? Get better! Mediocrity won't be accepted?

roy keane would be turning in his grave :-D

[liam2me]

1 - New Zealand's national game is rugby. Ireland could claim to be world champions in hurling every year too because who's going to come near us? It can't be compared to rugby either because of the money situation changing in rugby over the past few years. In 30 years time there will be guys who weren't born in Ireland playing in the rugby jersey.

2 - If they are better, they won't be knocked back for foreign players. Do you think Roy Keane would have been sacrificed for Jason McAteer?
1)i think you are very wrong about fella's playing rugby for ireland from outside ireland but thats something only time will tell.

2)true but the thing is at a young age, confidence is much more important i would think and that kind of stuff would really knock it IMO

[MonTheHoops]

1)i think you are very wrong about fella's playing rugby for ireland from outside ireland but thats something only time will tell.

2)true but the thing is at a young age, confidence is much more important i would think and that kind of stuff would really knock it IMO


1 - Why am I wrong? It's already happening elsewhere and rugby international laws are less strict than soccer ones.

2 - So maybe we should build them up so if it's all about confidence? "Michael Fitzpatrick, everyone else might think you're shite but we think you're the new Zidane"

Sack coaches at youth level and employ Pat Kenny to massage their egos?

[liam2me]

1 - Why am I wrong? It's already happening elsewhere and rugby international laws are less strict than soccer ones.

2 - So maybe we should build them up so if it's all about confidence? "Michael Fitzpatrick, everyone else might think you're shite but we think you're the new Zidane"

Sack coaches at youth level and employ Pat Kenny to massage their egos?
1. yeah its happened mostly in england, and look where they are now. NZ's PI players are mostly born in NZ. i can't think of any other country apart from wales and italy that have too many nationalised players, and certainly not to the same extent irish soccer has had.

2. ahh now stop taking the piss. give the lads games for ireland, let them develop

[MonTheHoops]

1. yeah its happened mostly in england, and look where they are now. NZ's PI players are mostly born in NZ. i can't think of any other country apart from wales and italy that have too many nationalised players, and certainly not to the same extent irish soccer has had.

2. ahh now stop taking the piss. give the lads games for ireland, let them develop

1. So you reckon Ireland won't go down that line? C'mon Liam - wisen up. If we get the chance to take guys on we'll take it.

2. So ignore these guys who could sign on the line for Ireland? Yes I'm taking the piss but only because the suggestion is stupid. McGeady's grandparents is his tie to Ireland and he feels more Irish than Scottish. Should the likes of him, and Houghton before him, be turned away because Michael Fitzpatrick who plays for Wilton Utd should be given a game?

[Sound]

1. yeah its happened mostly in england, and look where they are now. NZ's PI players are mostly born in NZ. i can't think of any other country apart from wales and italy that have too many nationalised players, and certainly not to the same extent irish soccer has had.

2. ahh now stop taking the piss. give the lads games for ireland, let them develop

1) No they're bloody not! You're not too hot on this fact lark, are you?
Sivivatu- Fiji
Muliaina- Samoan
Rokocoko- Fiji
Laulala- Samoan
Toeava- Fiji
Tuitupou- Samoan
Masoe- Samoan
Collins- Samoan

And that's just the ones off the top of my head!

[MonTheHoops]

1) No they're bloody not! You're not too hot on this fact lark, are you?



If I was to level one criticism at Liam it's got to be his ignorance of facts in general and sweeping generalisations based on these half truths.


Actually, I think he's the Sports forum's Karl Pilkington.

[Stuck in Dumpland]

1)i think you are very wrong about fella's playing rugby for ireland from outside ireland but thats something only time will tell.

2)true but the thing is at a young age, confidence is much more important i would think and that kind of stuff would really knock it IMO


1. Gleeson, the Easterby's, Boss, Manning, Neil Best, Maggs...none of them were born in Ireland so you're spouting bollox. It happens in rugby just like it happens in most other sports.

[MonTheHoops]

1. yeah its happened mostly in england, and look where they are now. NZ's PI players are mostly born in NZ. i can't think of any other country apart from wales and italy that have too many nationalised players, and certainly not to the same extent irish soccer has had.

2. ahh now stop taking the piss. give the lads games for ireland, let them develop


I was a bit out when I said 30 years.

Wasn't i boss?

[KolaKubes]

Gibson got good reports for the B side the other night.