Drinks sponsorship

[POL]

Fogarty's stinging rebuke
Monday May 29th 2006

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/index.php3?ca=37&issue_id=14112v

MUNSTER GAA Council chairman, Sean Fogarty has issued a stinging rebuke
of those who criticise the GAA for continuing their hurling sponsorship
deal with Guinness while ignoring rugby's links with Heineken.

Writing in the programme for yesterday's Clare-Cork Munster hurling
semi-final, he congratulated Munster on their success in the European
Rugby Cup but went on to compare the reaction between the Heineken and
Guinness sponsorships.

"The contrast between the deafening silence of both the media and public
at large as regards sponsorship of that (European rugby) competition and
the furore over the sponsorship of the hurling championship by Guinness
is truly amazing.

"The actual rugby trophy is called the Heineken Cup. Can you imagine if
the GAA called the Munster championship cup the Guinness Cup? I, for
one, would be checking that my passport was in order before I would
announce it," wrote Fogarty, who alleges there are differences in the
public attitude regarding admission prices, concessions and insurance
cover between the GAA and other sports.

Martin Breheny

[Ciotóg]

I believe the European rugby cup is called the ERC. At least that's what I call it because that's what it actually is. Ignore the media brainwashing.

[Eoin]

He's dead right.

It's a disgrace that the GAA has been castigated for keeping Guinness as a sponsor.

[Lamps]

I believe the European rugby cup is called the ERC. At least that's what I call it because that's what it actually is. Ignore the media brainwashing.


http://www.ercrugby.com/


Check out the home page.

The B comp is called the European Challenge Cup final
The other is called the Heineken Cup final

[BlueSkies]

Not a Munster jersey in sight yesterday, thank Christ.

[POL]

Sport Mon, May 29, 06
Cup mania should drive GAA to drink
Tom Humphries

LockerRoom: Now even though the trigger finger is a little itchy we're not here to shoot holes in the Heineken Cup. Nope. We come in peace. We mean no harm. Also we appreciate that for the men and women working in the coalmines and ironworks and assembly lines of Limerick the cup is a fantastic escape from the grey drudgery of everyday life. That alone makes Munster "different".

We understand too that Munster rugby claims immunity from all ribaldry and ballyragging by virtue of the fact that in Limerick the salt-of-the-earth working man would rather watch rugby than watch his own back in a knife fight. We're not saying it justifies Pat Kenny poncing about in a Munster jersey on the Late Late but we're saying it's enough for us to resolve to leave matters be.


One thing though - and not a criticism, more a point of wonder. The Heineken Cup is a miracle of modern-day marketing and hype. Never have so many got so excited over a sports event with so little history attached. The trophy itself doesn't even have a name apart from that of its sponsor (only rugby could get away with that, surely).

It's only yesterday Young Munster were touchy about anyone calling their home patch the Killing Fields and Garryowen, their well-to-do neighbours, were slugging it out with them for the new-fangled All Ireland league and people used to injunct against any slagging of Limerick rugby because Young Munster were "sound like".

Now all of Munster has appropriated Young Munster's soundness and this cup is an immense annual distraction in Irish life. Somehow it has plugged itself into the small, cynicism-free part of the national imagination and become a certified holy grail. In doing so it has bypassed all the requirements of history or tradition.

Good luck to the Heino and all who sail in it. If there's a lesson for other sports this year it lies in the cup and its boldness. If the game itself is a decent product there is no need to be afraid of change. In a time of transition the adventures of Munster in the competition have added significantly to the aggregate interest in rugby in the province. Nobody pines for winter and the rites of the old Munster Senior Cup.

The cup has captured the zeitgeist of post-Celtic Tiger Ireland with its love of sensation and phenomenon. The fact the cup is a triumph of marketing in a way just adds to the triumph of the marketing. It's new and different and in many ways that's the point. It's like why we stopped drinking Harp although Heineken and Carlsberg tasted the same. We just thirsted after something new.

We got to thinking about all this as we sat resplendent above in the splendid press box in Semple Stadium gazing absentmindedly down at the intermediate match that preceded the main event yesterday. The continuity and history of Munster hurling always give one pause for thought and genuflection, and as we sat there we were tinkering with the idea about doing a column on Jimmy Smyth.

On June 5th 1955 Jimmy played on the Clare team which beat Cork down on the this very turf in Semple Stadium in this self-same Munster championship. Jimmy scored the last two points to put Christy Ring's team away.

(Jimmy's career, by the way, is proof in a way that there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to prodigies. He won three All-Ireland colleges titles with Flannan's, had five seasons as a Clare county minor and in the 1953 Munster championship scored 6-4 against Limerick. Imagine the fuss we'd have made in the papers.)

In Thurles yesterday though - despite the excellence of the preamble which was last year's All-Ireland semi-final, despite the long, musty history of clashes between Cork and Clare, despite the clemency of the weather, the proximity of the venue and the honed tradition of the Munster championship - there were a few gaps in the stands and at the Killinan end. Not a bad attendance but just not brimful.

Now it's not that people don't want to watch Clare and Cork. If they meet at Croke Park later in the year tickets will be as a scarce as hens' teeth so great will be the multitude of hurling lovers who need to get there. But Croke Park itself is part of the new shininess we love and crave. Any game in Croke Park is an occasion and a day out and I'd venture the stadium and its facilities have in the past few years boosted attendances regardless of the games.

It was good at Thurles yesterday but it didn't have the feel of a great occasion that was engaging a huge segment of society. There are many reasons for this. The aggressive and ingenious marketing by Heineken in the cause of rugby wouldn't be tolerated if the GAA were to attempt it in partnership with Guinness.

It is interesting that though Heineken are all over the rugby competition like a rash there hasn't been a whimper of protest from those who habitually pull across the ankles of the GAA for their rather more proper association with Guinness.

Then there is the nature of the coverage rugby's European Cup receives in this country. Not even the Irish soccer team (especially not, they would argue) get the partisan coverage and commentary our rugby participants receive in some quarters.

There are honourable exceptions of course, but this rugby cup more than any event in recent memory benefits from the absence of journalism and the harooing of cheerleaders.

This is of course a happy bonus which comes to some sporting occasions virtually unbidden. You could call it the Pat Kenny effect. When Pat is wearing a Munster jersey on Friday night on the Late Late Show and Ray D'Arcy is getting excited in the mornings on radio it doesn't matter that Munster play dull rugby or the competition is younger than anyone that plays in it. Somehow it has caught the imagination.

Cork and Clare began yesterday like two bantamweights determined to get a knockout of some sort by the first bell. It was cracking stuff - a continuation of a line of rivalry going back to the time of our great-grandparents and beyond.

When you think of all the blood sweat and tears which have been absorbed into its turf, Semple Stadium should be a national shrine.

Yet its proposed 18-million revamp can't come quick enough. There is nowhere in the country that we'd prefer to go for the friendliness, efficiency and atmosphere, yet the European Cup in rugby teaches us we have to keep moving and reinventing ourselves for the times we live in.

We're a shallow, fickle people at the end of the day, the sort of folk who don't know what we've got till it's gone. Hurling for all its wonder is stuck in a rut these times. Clare, the golden boys of the 90s revolution, were swatted away yesterday. Kilkenny will do likewise to Offaly and Wexford in Leinster. The game needs all the things Croke Park has been doing quietly - development and evangelisation - but it also needs something the rugby people have done so well. It needs selling, glitz, hype and razzmatazz. Heineken have done that job well. The old Guinness ads when they undertook the sponsorship of the hurling All-Irelands did that too but they petered out. Club Energise do it wonderfully.

There needs to be more though. Not just for hurling but for domestic soccer, etc.

The European Cup in rugby, the ice hockey in Belfast - they prove one thing: people won't come just because you stage an event; people will come if you create a buzz.

Time to learn from the Heino, chaps. Bring on the Jodinho ads.

© The Irish Times

[Ciotóg]

Seriously, on sponsorship and the likes, did anyone find yesterday that the Semple "experience" was infinitely better than Croke Park? Like you could actually see the grass on the pitch, and you didn't have a big screen up in the town end blasting out ads at you at half time and during the warm-up. Last year in Croke Park you literally couldn't talk to the fella next to you at half time because the volume was so loud. Funnier again was the fact that amateur players were warming up on the pitch to the sounds of Lucozade Engergiser Whateveritscalled being blasted out, and advertised by Brian O' Driscoll, who wouldn't have even been allowed on the pitch at the time (pre-rule 42 etc). Not to mention the fact that the screen which is (mar dhea) supposed to provide action replays for the crowd, actually just shows ads for ice cream about 50% of the time. Complete joke if you ask me.

[Eoin]

We're a shallow, fickle people at the end of the day, the sort of folk who don't know what we've got till it's gone. Hurling for all its wonder is stuck in a rut these times. Clare, the golden boys of the 90s revolution, were swatted away yesterday. Kilkenny will do likewise to Offaly and Wexford in Leinster. The game needs all the things Croke Park has been doing quietly - development and evangelisation - but it also needs something the rugby people have done so well. It needs selling, glitz, hype and razzmatazz. Heineken have done that job well. The old Guinness ads when they undertook the sponsorship of the hurling All-Irelands did that too but they petered out. Club Energise do it wonderfully.



Good article. I definitely agree with this. The GAA needs to do a lot more to promote hurling, especially in the counties that don't compete in the All-Ireland series.

And I still don't understand how anyone can object to 2 of the greatest symbols of irish culture working together?? No 14 or 15 year old is going to go out and drink a pint of guinness just cos they sponsor the hurling.

[FL4ZGN]

Tom Humphries


© The Irish Times

POL,

You of all people should know not to take that chap seriously.

[FL4ZGN]

Good article. I definitely agree with this. The GAA needs to do a lot more to promote hurling, especially in the counties that don't compete in the All-Ireland series.

And I still don't understand how anyone can object to 2 of the greatest symbols of irish culture working together?? No 14 or 15 year old is going to go out and drink a pint of guinness just cos they sponsor the hurling.


No 14 or 15 year old would be able to drink a pint of Guinness period. How often do you see anyone under 25 drinking a pint of Guinness?

[Lamps]

great article

[Eoin]

No 14 or 15 year old would be able to drink a pint of Guinness period. How often do you see anyone under 25 drinking a pint of Guinness?

That's my point. Guinness is not a drink that young people drink very often.

If it was the Bacardi Breezer hurling championship, then maybe, just maybe, these idiots might have an argument.

[Coin]

Tom Humphries
One thing though - and not a criticism, more a point of wonder. The Heineken Cup is a miracle of modern-day marketing and hype. Never have so many got so excited over a sports event with so little history attached. The trophy itself doesn't even have a name apart from that of its sponsor (only rugby could get away with that, surely).

I wonder if some helpful soul could tell me how long I should ignore the Heineken cup before its been around long enough to have a "tradition" and it will be ok to support a team in it despite not being involved in the sport.

[Tube a Pringles]

I wonder if some helpful soul could tell me how long I should ignore the Heineken cup before its been around long enough to have a "tradition" and it will be ok to support a team in it despite not being involved in the sport.

2 generations.

[JohnR]

I wonder if some helpful soul could tell me how long I should ignore the Heineken cup before its been around long enough to have a "tradition" and it will be ok to support a team in it despite not being involved in the sport.
Do what you want. But we or I shouldn't be asked to give it any respect (not saying you are by the way) other than believing (as I do) that the Heino Cup has been a highly successful marketing miracle helped along by some conducive developments.

Humphries said "not a criticism, more a point of wonder". It really is amazing how the thing has taken off from basically nowhere, do you not agree? But it's part of a pattern at the same time: when the Champions League was created in its current format, finals were not sell outs - eg Milan V Barcelona. I'm not saying the European Cup (the football one) was entirely a struggling format but the rampant marketing of this product has ensured that, for example, season ticket holders at Barca and Arsenal didn't get tickets for the final the other week.

[Coin]

Do what you want. But we or I shouldn't be asked to give it any respect (not saying you are by the way) other than believing (as I do) that the Heino Cup has been a highly successful marketing miracle helped along by some conducive developments.

Humphries said "not a criticism, more a point of wonder". It really is amazing how the thing has taken off from basically nowhere, do you not agree? But it's part of a pattern at the same time: when the Champions League was created in its current format, finals were not sell outs - eg Milan V Barcelona. I'm not saying the European Cup (the football one) was entirely a struggling format but the rampant marketing of this product has ensured that, for example, season ticket holders at Barca and Arsenal didn't get tickets for the final the other week.
I just think that the idea of requiring a "tradition" is utterly stupid. Which year did the All Ireland gain enough tradition to move from being a curiosity to current "county grinds to a halt" status? This has nothing to do with rugby, hurling, football or curling. Every iteration of every competition should be judged on its own merits, and I think that the only way to measure the importance of a competition (within its own sport) is the level of commitment from the participants.

[JohnR]

I just think that the idea of requiring a "tradition" is utterly stupid. Which year did the All Ireland gain enough tradition to move from being a curiosity to current "county grinds to a halt" status. This has nothing to do with rugby, hurling, football or curling. Every iteration of every competition should be judged on its own merits, and I think that the only way to measure the importance of a competition (within its own sport) is the level of commitment from the participants.
Yes, yes but why should we be railroaded into completely respecting the fattened product of a clever and aggressive marketing drive.

[Coin]

Yes, yes but why should we be railroaded into completely respecting the fattened product of a clever and aggressive marketing drive.
I honestly don't think any amount of marketing can convince people that they're having a good time at a match. You can hype it up and over promote it (I think it'll burn out to be honest), but you can't create the tension that comes from watching players who obviously care a great deal about the competition they're in.

And who's getting railroaded? Those people weren't hearded onto the ferries and planes, and if you don't want to watch rugby, then don't.

I hate that I might be coming off as a big rugby fan here, because I'd rather watch Cork/Kilkenny in an All Ireland than Munster/Biarritz in Cardiff, but I still can't get over the amount of bitterness and jealousy coming from the other sports. I'd also like to modify my previous post: Tradition is not stupid. There is a certain feeling from being in a competition that has been around for years and has been won by the greats of your sport over many years, but its still not a requirement for an exciting and engaging tournament.

[JohnR]

I honestly don't think any amount of marketing can convince people that they're having a good time at a match. You can hype it up and over promote it (I think it'll burn out to be honest), but you can't create the tension that comes from watching players who obviously care a great deal about the competition they're in.

And who's getting railroaded? Those people weren't hearded onto the ferries and planes, and if you don't want to watch rugby, then don't.

I hate that I might be coming off as a big rugby fan here, because I'd rather watch Cork/Kilkenny in an All Ireland than Munster/Biarritz in Cardiff, but I still can't get over the amount of bitterness and jealousy coming from the other sports. I'd also like to modify my previous post: Tradition is not stupid. There is a certain feeling from being in a competition that has been around for years and has been won by the greats of your sport over many years, but its still not a requirement for an exciting and engaging tournament.
I said we’re railroaded into respecting the HRC. Humphries is going against that as is his right. I’m not bitter or jealous at all, for the record. But I shouldn’t be regarded as a freakshow if I feel a little detached from a bit of excitement in Limerick and Cardiff.

And it cannot be denied that a lot of people in Cardiff and on O Connell St in Limerick and in Reardens etc are the product of a concerted marketing effort. The last Munster match I went to (in Europe) was a Musgrave Park loss to Cardiff – a few years back obviously. My buddies and I could have had a game of tag rugby at the Sunday’s Well End.

[Coin]

I said we’re railroaded into respecting the HRC.
Explain that to me. What does "respecting" a competition mean, and how can you be forced to do it?

[boxoid]

i wonder would it have anything to do with the way the supporters of certain sports can handle drink???

jocks... drunk but jolly.
gaa... drunk animals
football.. drunk hooligans and conbat18

[FL4ZGN]

i wonder would it have anything to do with the way the supporters of certain sports can handle drink???

jocks... drunk but jolly.
gaa... drunk animals
football.. drunk hooligans and conbat18

Darts?
Snooker?

[Eoin]

i wonder would it have anything to do with the way the supporters of certain sports can handle drink???

jocks... drunk but jolly.
gaa... drunk animals
football.. drunk hooligans and conbat18

Every sport and every team has it's element of cuntish supporters. it's a fact of life.

you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

[FL4ZGN]

you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Unless they are English

[JohnR]

Unless they are English
Kind of like that guy who'll be on Countdown who used to be in charge of the world's biggest club or whatever? Do they get tarred twice on account of being associated with him and (double whammy) being English?
It's true what they say - I'm acting like a prick. Good laugh though...

[FL4ZGN]

Kind of like that guy who'll be on Countdown who used to be in charge of the world's biggest club or whatever? Do they get tarred twice on account of being associated with him and (double whammy) being English?
It's true what they say - I'm acting like a prick. Good laugh though...

Richard Whitely is dead JohnBoy

[JohnR]

Richard Whitely is dead JohnBoy
But Countdown isn't http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=737 26

[FL4ZGN]

But Countdown isn't http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=737 26


BFR is a cunt.

[JohnR]

BFR is a cunt.
Not a notion but not too bothered. I suppose my newby-ness has left be flailing here but there are worse things in life, believe it or not. Like hypocrisy for example...

[FL4ZGN]

Not a notion but not too bothered. I suppose my newby-ness has left be flailing here but there are worse things in life, believe it or not. Like hypocrisy for example...


I have not beef with you my man.

BFR = BIG FAT RON
BIG FAT RON = RON ATKINSON.

[JohnR]

I have not beef with you my man.
Maybe you should - though you'll have to be quick, queue is forming.

Anyway, I'll give you a hand if you like. And be wide fellow PROC posters, I'm going to be acting the prick here: Just feel that it is slightly inconsistent (or probably consistent) to be paradoxically so in love with an English club while so contemptuous of English people...
Unless they are English

[FL4ZGN]

Maybe you should - though you'll have to be quick, queue is forming.

Anyway, I'll give you a hand if you like. And be wide fellow PROC posters, I'm going to be acting the prick here: Just feel that it is slightly inconsistent (or probably consistent) to be paradoxically so in love with an English club while so contemptuous of English people...


I was referring to English football fans, you know the type that follow the national team around? The ones we have watched fighting for the past twenty years. Yes those are the guys.

Who would be your favourites to cause trouble at this years world cup?

[JohnR]

I was referring to English football fans, you know the type that follow the national team around? The ones we have watched fighting for the past twenty years. Yes those are the guys.
You do mean to say English football hooligans? Even so, the small, loud, idiotic minority shouldn't tar the decent majority. (I've made that mistake on here before)
Who would be your favourites to cause trouble at this years world cup?
I presume you mean to ask who are the favourites to cost most trouble? Well the quantities of Poles travelling alligned with the strength of hooliganism in that country means that they are at the post favourites. That's general consensus but what an odd question.

[FL4ZGN]

You do mean to say English football hooligans? Even so, the small, loud, idiotic minority shouldn't tar the decent majority. (I've made that mistake on here before)

I presume you mean to ask who are the favourites to cost most trouble? Well the quantities of Poles travelling alligned with the strength of hooliganism in that country means that they are at the post favourites. That's general consensus but what an odd question.

Wait until England get knocked out.

[ho chi feen]

http://www.ercrugby.com/


Check out the home page.

The B comp is called the European Challenge Cup final
The other is called the Heineken Cup final


It's called the H Cup in France.