Ruuds played his last game id say

[storysham]

Walked out of old trafford today after being told he was on the bench.

Beckham all over again.

What is fergies problem.

[aahjay]

Walked out of old trafford today after being told he was on the bench.

Beckham all over again.

What is fergies problem.

Reckon that was Fergies plan all along

[Jim Comic]

Reckon that was Fergies plan all along

reckon he's trying to force ruud to demand a transfer so that they won't have to pay him to leave

[Jim Comic]

http://soccernet.espn.go.co m/news/story?id=367281&cc=5739

[storysham]

word in manchester is he's booked on a flight to eindhoven just after KO.

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

Had him as captin in my fantasy team. Fecks sake.

[xvis]

ridiculous.

absolutely ridiculous.


'here Liverpool, have second spot and about £5-6m that would otherwise be ours'
farce, 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it' comes to mind

[afeencalleddan]

Ruud is a girl and always has been. He is a totally dishonest player and I hope to god Martin Jol doesn't try to keep him in England.

[storysham]

Ruud is a girl and always has been. He is a totally dishonest player and I hope to god Martin Jol doesn't try to keep him in England.

Lots of rumors on the spurs message boards, they all want him.

He's off to italy id say.

Talk of althletico madrid.

[afeencalleddan]

Lots of rumors on the spurs message boards, they all want him.

He's off to italy id say.

Talk of althletico madrid.

Good. He can fuck off. Spurs have just cleared out all their fanny boys. Let's keep it that way.

[STEVIEG]

It would be a major step down if he went to Spurs
A great player for United and even in a poor season like this year he has scored 20 plus
It looks like he's gone and I wish him all the best if he does
Fegie has just said "he was lacking in spirit" during the week so it looks like that is it
No player is bigger than United

[afeencalleddan]

I hate the cunt - he's always lacking in spirit. Even if he's a great finisher, his attitude always stinks. Throwing himself on the ground when he should be busting a gut to get the ball. I'll never forget the time he dived on the last day of the season a few years back to help himself finish top scorer ahead of Beattie. He's been moaning ever since he came back but Saha stayed in the team. Fucking prick. No matter how talented he is I'd hate to have to cheer him on.

[STEVIEG]

I disagree but who cares really
I've been over and seen him in the flesh many times
A hard working player who covers load sof ground
Rooney said as much recently and was crediting him for improving his game
he hasn't complained he has gone on with it (till today)
He has been a total professional for Man United and thats why his name was sung today (and no matter what happens) will be sung for many years to come

[Jim Comic]

Lots of rumors on the spurs message boards, they all want him.

He's off to italy id say.

Talk of althletico madrid.



madrid's in spain 8)

[storysham]

madrid's in spain 8)

I know. i think he'll go to italy.

But there are rumors of a swap deal with athletico.

[Diego Murphy]

I know. i think he'll go to italy.

But there are rumors of a swap deal with athletico.

i was thinking a swap deal with atletico for Torres would be a nice setup. Not sure if he'd go there though. I'd be all for a move for Torres

[homer jay]

It would be a major step down if he went to Spurs
A great player for United and even in a poor season like this year he has scored 20 plus

it would be a step down if he went to spurs, but he's over 30. high profile clubs will be less and less interested in him. utd got the best years out of him.

[Rolo Feen]

i doubt ruud will go to another english club other than maybe a london one, simply for the reason that his wife didnt like living in the north of england and moved back to holland last year... other than london, i wouldnt see her being overly eager to move back, probably affecting his decision.
he'll go to spain or italy.

[Rollo]

when fergie dropped him it was to test his character too. If RVN had said "right i must get back into the squad and play better cuz this saha guy is doing the business" he wouldn't be on his way out, instead he acted the prick and threw his toys out of his pram, fergie pretty much said he has been a "distrubance"

I never liked him, most dutch players in my opinion come across as arogant on the pitch....not all thou.

[xvis]

it would be a step down if he went to spurs, but he's over 30. high profile clubs will be less and less interested in him. utd got the best years out of him.

last time i checked 29 is under 30

[xvis]

I hate the cunt - he's always lacking in spirit. Even if he's a great finisher, his attitude always stinks. Throwing himself on the ground when he should be busting a gut to get the ball. I'll never forget the time he dived on the last day of the season a few years back to help himself finish top scorer ahead of Beattie. He's been moaning ever since he came back but Saha stayed in the team. Fucking prick. No matter how talented he is I'd hate to have to cheer him on.

..jeez getting upset about some apparent unjust penalty, to score more goals than Beattie, very small time, there was probably contact anyway.

There has been no moaning from Ruud. There has been no rational to recent selections. As stevie has said, he's been a model professional for United, and is of tremendous character.

If he is, as it looks, being manoeurved out it will be purely a financial decision, ..get £15m or whatever now, rather than less down the road. which is a bit bewildering. Also there are the rumours that Querioz' handling of Ruud leading to the league cup final lead to a souring.

The United fans have major respect for Ruud, ..and all will wish him well, standing back bewidered at another Ferguson moment. I can see this turning into another departure that looks ill-judged, as per Stam. I can see him either ending up at either the big two in Spain, or Milan. And doing exceptionally well.

..don't worry, you won't have to worry about cheering him for Spurs next season.

[paudie]

Ferguson play ruud for ages when he was not doing it then brough in saha
ruud didn't take it well as ruud want's too get ready for the world cup
it will be a good time too sell him for man u as his price will fall after next season and man u have to many forwards if they all get back to fitness

[shammy feen]

when fergie dropped him it was to test his character too. If RVN had said "right i must get back into the squad and play better cuz this saha guy is doing the business" he wouldn't be on his way out, instead he acted the prick and threw his toys out of his pram, fergie pretty much said he has been a "distrubance"

I never liked him, most dutch players in my opinion come across as arogant on the pitch....not all thou.

If he's being a "Distrubance" your better off without him....;)
Is that scottish for disturbance??

I can imagine Fergie saying that after a few Glenmorangie alright...

[shammy feen]

BTW I would love Chelsea to buy RVN.
He's just what we need up front in a 4-3-3

[Captain Planet]

well well well, its not just the liverpool fans who are fickle to the core. Cant believe fergie is forcing ruud out. Hes the immature one, not ruud. 150 goals and what does he get, feck all.

As for this whole upsetting the team spirit bollocks, well ferguson could try harder than that. Ruuds been patient enough as it is sitting on the bench. Id be pissed off too if i was 2nd top scorer in the league or thereabouts and couldnt get in the first team. Fergusons first excuse was that he wanted him fresher for next season with the world cup coming up. Full o'shite

[homer jay]

last time i checked 29 is under 30

apologies, he 30 at the start of july. thought he'd already passed his birthday. a little bit academical tho, whats does a few weeks matter? was just making the point that he's around that point in his career.

[shammy feen]

Ince
Staam
Beckham
Keane
Van Nistlerooy....

Next Fergie victim please!

[Roman Abramovich]

What is fergies problem.

hes a cunt....


i said it before, ill say it again and ill say it till the cunt leaves.

FERGIE SHOULD HAVE WENT WHEN HE SOLD BECKHAM

[Roman Abramovich]

It would be a major step down if he went to Spurs
A great player for United and even in a poor season like this year he has scored 20 plus
It looks like he's gone and I wish him all the best if he does
Fegie has just said "he was lacking in spirit" during the week so it looks like that is it
No player is bigger than United

POOR SEASON?

i tought he was savage this year for ye. he played henryesc with his support play, buildup play, bringing players into play.
first year he ever done it.

he still a horse faced cunt but no one deserves what fergie has done to him.

[Up For The Ba]

Its gone beyond a joke now, this really saddens me, one of the clubs greatest ever strikers should not have been treated in this manner.

[Philby]

So it looks like horseface will be put out to stud eh? United will have a mare next season 'cos you'd be a foal to think they'd get a stable replacement..

[Sound]

So it looks like horseface will be put out to stud eh? United will have a mare next season 'cos you'd be a foal to think they'd get a stable replacement..

Get out.

[Captain Planet]

So it looks like horseface will be put out to stud eh? United will have a mare next season 'cos you'd be a foal to think they'd get a stable replacement..
oh dear

[Roman Abramovich]

Its gone beyond a joke now, this really saddens me, one of the clubs greatest ever strikers should not have been treated in this manner.

thats fergie for ya....

i hate horse face but he still shouldnt be treated like that.
i always claimed utd were a better side without him as he brings nothing to the game other than goals. But this season he was different, he was on the wing more, in midfield, supporting, crossing, interpassing. The guy was having in my imo his best season ever as a team player and look at the amount of goals he got....

fergies lost it....he lost it with stam, he confirmed it with becks, he assured me with keano and now ruud? case closed. take him away boys

[Up For The Ba]

thats fergie for ya....

i hate horse face but he still shouldnt be treated like that.
i always claimed utd were a better side without him as he brings nothing to the game other than goals. But this season he was different, he was on the wing more, in midfield, supporting, crossing, interpassing. The guy was having in my imo his best season ever as a team player and look at the amount of goals he got....

fergies lost it....he lost it with stam, he confirmed it with becks, he assured me with keano and now ruud? case closed. take him away boys

I cant say that my opinion is too far off yours. Any joy with tickets yet by the way??

[MonTheHoops]

According to the Spanish press , Manure have offered 21 million euros plus Van Nistelrooy for Fernando Torres of Atletico Madrid

[pepe_le_pooh]

hes a cunt....
i said it before, ill say it again and ill say it till the cunt leaves.
FERGIE SHOULD HAVE WENT WHEN HE SOLD BECKHAM
But no matter how many times you say it, the grammar will still be wrong.
..
(sorry, it's Monday morning and I'm feeling pedantic)

But if I may make a point which is related to the thread, I think replacing Ruud will be a lot easier than replacing Keane.

[Che Mourinho]

Everyone forgets about Smithy! Hopefully Fergie will see sense and forget about playing him in midfield (providing a few are bought) and put him back where he belongs - as a striker!

A real shame about Van the Man. An absolute United legend.

[Actin The Sham]

last time i checked 29 is under 30


You had to check?


What are your plans for the afternoon? Figure out that the reason it gets dark is because the sun goes down?

[xvis]

Its gone beyond a joke now, this really saddens me, one of the clubs greatest ever strikers should not have been treated in this manner.

agreed.

[Philby]

According to the Spanish press , Manure have offered 21 million euros plus Van Nistelrooy for Fernando Torres of Atletico Madrid

That's a very big offer if it's true (which I don't think it is). There's a lot of chat floating around about Liverpool's interest in Torres so we could well see the two clubs go head to head for the young spaniard in the summer.

Although Torres drops deep a lot less than Rooney they are relatively similar players but imho both good enough that they could adapt and play well together

[MonTheHoops]

That's a very big offer if it's true (which I don't think it is). There's a lot of chat floating around about Liverpool's interest in Torres so we could well see the two clubs go head to head for the young spaniard in the summer.

Although Torres drops deep a lot less than Rooney they are relatively similar players but imho both good enough that they could adapt and play well together


It's 21M Euro & RVN. Apparently Spurs were going to pay £7M for Ruud.

I imagine Torres' wages would be significantly less than Ruud's so it could look like a bargain really at just over £20M

[Sound]

Villa is a far better player. He can use his other foot and doesn't need 5 chances per goal. Torres is faster though.

[xvis]

You had to check?


What are your plans for the afternoon? Figure out that the reason it gets dark is because the sun goes down?

yeah, ..plugged '29 minus 30' into the old calculator and it gave out a negative number ..so that settled it.

I was actually thinking is 31 the minimum age to be classified as 'over 30' or is, say, 30 years and 5 months 'over 30 years old', or his he classified as just '30'?
..can someone confirm this? ..a combination of mathematics and english required

[Actin The Sham]

yeah, ..plugged '29 minus 30' into the old calculator and it gave out a negative number ..so that settled it.

I was actually thinking is 31 the minimum age to be classified as 'over 30' or is, say, 30 years and 5 months 'over 30 years old', or his he classified as just '30'?
..can someone confirm this? ..a combination of mathematics and english required

Once you reach your 30th birthday, you are "over 30."

[STEVIEG]

I doubt Fergie would have dropped him for the laugh
There are reports of discontent on the training ground and the bottom line is, no-one here knows what went down.
The team played as a team yesterday and as I say,thats the key to the future
Naff, he didn't have a poor season but the fact that he was out for a lot of it and that United were under par led me to say that it was poor, though as you say,he did well when he played

[EDDIEB]

I doubt Fergie would have dropped him for the laugh
There are reports of discontent on the training ground and the bottom line is, no-one here knows what went down.
The team played as a team yesterday and as I say,thats the key to the future
Naff, he didn't have a poor season but the fact that he was out for a lot of it and that United were under par led me to say that it was poor, though as you say,he did well when he played


Silvestre should be shown the door.....?
83 points would have won it any other season but losing to crap opposition and poor form in Europe equals a dissapointing season.
New season begins soon !!!!

[STEVIEG]

Yup 16 points dropped against relatively poor opposition
Boro,City and (the admittedly good) blackburn

[Hang_Sandwich]

meh he was paid for his time there, tis no different to you or me getting our p45's

[11 league titles]

[QUOTE=EDDIEB]Silvestre should be shown the door.....?
QUOTE]
Yes..Without doubt..Once again yesterday almost gifted a goal to Charlton.he is truly awful

[devvy devverson]

van nis is a legend without a doubt but was at his best when becks could land the ball in front of him.
definately always had an attitude problem though.... he could play shite for 6/7 games and if he was dropped for one hed throw shit at a fan.
nobody(except michael jordan) is bigger than the club so if hes causing unrest he should go.
the fuckin dutch are an arrogant fuckin race anyway....they are constantly bickering and there is always too much inteam fighting in their camp.
jesus if they kept some cool heads they could run riot in any competition.


and fuck peter kenyon for fucking up the ronaldinho deal as a last act as a utd employee.... the fucker knew he was on the road to london to join up with the rest of the gangsters.

[Forsberg]

I doubt Fergie would have dropped him for the laugh
There are reports of discontent on the training ground and the bottom line is, no-one here knows what went down.
The team played as a team yesterday and as I say,thats the key to the future
Naff, he didn't have a poor season but the fact that he was out for a lot of it and that United were under par led me to say that it was poor, though as you say,he did well when he played


That's a fair point but there seems to be an awful lot of top players leave Man U in this way during Fergie's reign.

Beckham
Stam
Ince
Keane

And now Van Nistlerooy

I can understand one, maybe two. But this is the 5th time at least that someone has left United in this way. Surely there has to be some blame laid on Ferguson. I know he's acheived everything, and there's a lot of United fans who'll say that 'Fergie knows best' but he's not infallible.

I agree that nobody really knows what went on but, it doesn't seem( from the outside anyway) that Van Nistlerooy is hard a player to deal with. Even though I don't like him, he seems like a top professional. And I can't really blame him for going over the edge after bein left out for Rossi.

[STEVIEG]

True but over 20 years these things will happen

At the time people questioned his motives for getting rid of McGrath, Whiteside, Moran and Kanchelskis too
Sure a few went on to play well for other clubs but the manager has always but the club first

He felt Ince was a big time Charlie (and he had a ready made replacement)
Stam was unprofessional (prob should not have sold him though)
Beckham was becoming too into non-football things and not getting his game for United (and commanding a huge fee-which fucktard Kenyon could have got Ronaldinho with)
Keane was nearing the end of his career and ultimately, was better off leaving then than now (at least United have played without him for long periods now, imagine Arsenal without Henry)
And now Ruud
Dropped for the Carling cup (a decision proved right), and left out and left hungry while United went on a fairly respectacle run and proved that they can still score goals

Of course Fergie is not always right
but he knows better than most and i'd trust him to know wheter Ruud should stay or move on

[Rebelred]

to be honest,if Ruud has being fighting with other members of the squad,then he will have to go.Apparently he and Giggs went for each other after the Sunderland game and he travelled to the chelsea game on his own,not on the team coach,such was the bad feeling in the squad.
The row with Ronaldo probably was the straw that broke the camels back,I think we've all known for some time now that Fergie was planning to offload him in the summer.
Ruuds record speaks for itself,he'll score goals wherever he goes, but for the good of the team, I think he'll have to go unfortunately.
The only time Fergie has got it wrong in these kind of situations was the sale of Stam.Selling McGrath,Whiteside,In ce,Kanchelskis were all the right decisions in my view.


P.S wouldn't mind a part exchange + cash for Torres

[afeencalleddan]

he'll score goals wherever he goes
That's true but he'll always be a shitehawk to me. I have nothing but contempt for the way he conducts himself.

[Langer Dan]

fergies lost it....he lost it with stam, he confirmed it with becks, he assured me with keano and now ruud? case closed. take him away boys

Have to say I agree with you.

Ferguson is damaging the club with this move. RVN is oine of the rare breed of european strikers that is a guarenteed 20 goals a season man. Selling him when United are playing catch up with Chelsea is Lunacy.

For the record I agree with Ruud on Ronaldo hes been an overpriced failure who far too often has no end prduct.

Selling Ruud is a mistake that along with shufting Keane out the door will cost Ferguson dearly.

[Philby]

IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

They enthuse players, they motivate them, they let them know exactly what they want from them and how they fit into the bigger picture.

Their players go out onto the pitch utterly convinced that if they follow their instructions everything will go to plan. Far too often players at United have been rubbed up the wrong way by their manager & simply don't feel that unity..instead of respect for their manager they feel a mixture of fear & contempt.

Ferguson should never have gone back on his decision to retire. His pride wouldn't let him go through with it and he will pay the price because his legacy will be partly soured by the (relative) underachievement in his final few years.

[afeencalleddan]

IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

They enthuse players, they motivate them, they let them know exactly what they want from them and how they fit into the bigger picture.

Their players go out onto the pitch utterly convinced that if they follow their instructions everything will go to plan. Far too often players at United have been rubbed up the wrong way by their manager & simply don't feel that unity..instead of respect for their manager they feel a mixture of fear & contempt.

Ferguson should never have gone back on his decision to retire. His pride wouldn't let him go through with it and he will pay the price because his legacy will be partly soured by the (relative) underachievement in his final few years.
Yup. The guy is alienating himself from the chance of getting big names to come to Old Trafford. I think that's been fairly evident for the last few seasons now. He will retire a disappointed man when he could have gone out at the top.

[STEVIEG]

IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

They enthuse players, they motivate them, they let them know exactly what they want from them and how they fit into the bigger picture.

Their players go out onto the pitch utterly convinced that if they follow their instructions everything will go to plan. Far too often players at United have been rubbed up the wrong way by their manager & simply don't feel that unity..instead of respect for their manager they feel a mixture of fear & contempt.

Ferguson should never have gone back on his decision to retire. His pride wouldn't let him go through with it and he will pay the price because his legacy will be partly soured by the (relative) underachievement in his final few years.

And his team still finish ahead of Rafa's and Wenger's...........

[afeencalleddan]

And his team still finish ahead of Rafa's and Wenger's...........
Stevie, the future looks much brighter for them than he and I think he'd kill to have been in Istanbul or to be in Paris tomorrow week.

[STEVIEG]

If titles were won on the internet maybe


As for tactical prowess
Take out a couple of FA cup ties and Wenger and Rafa havent beaten a Fergie team in a few years (Rafa never and Wengers team were outplayed in last years cup final)

But enough of the bollocks talk i'll leave that to Philby
I've a flight to catch............

[Philby]

Ruud feeding his side of the story to the press it seems. I hope utd make a spectacular diouf-esque loss on the horseboy!

Manchester United outcast Ruud van Nistelrooy feels betrayed by his manager Sir Alex Ferguson.
That is the opinion of van Nistelrooy's close friend, former Dutch international Wim van Hanegem, who also confirmed that his compatriot was an ally of ex-Red Devil Roy Keane.
Van Hanegem claims van Nistelrooy was an outspoken critic of Ferguson's decision to dispense with Keane and has now paid the price for his dissent.
Since being dropped for the Carling Cup final, the former PSV Eindhoven star has found himself marginalised at Old Trafford and van Hanegem is adamant the turn of events was brought about by Keane's departure to Celtic.
"The departure of Roy Keane had a massive impact on Ruud," van Hanegem told the Sunday Mirror.
"In the dressing room Ruud openly sided with Keane when Ferguson decided to separate the player from the club.
"Because of Ruud's passion and determination he would not keep his mouth shut.
"Ruud can go far, sometimes too far and that has worked against him at United."
It is all a far cry from when Ferguson first courted van Nistelrooy and developed a strong rapport with the player who struggled with injury before making a switch to The Premiership.
But van Hanegem has now questioned the motives of the Scot.
"Ruud was completely overwhelmed by Sir Alex when he first got to know him. When Ruud got injured the first time he was going to move from PSV Eindhoven to United, Ferguson kept in touch with him all the time," added van Hanegem.
"But now Ruud has come to realise, I hope, that Ferguson's caring had nothing to do with a human touch. It was only because Ruud was a world-class striker and Ferguson was desperate to get him.
"Now Ruud has found out the hard way. He has also realised that Ferguson has a funny way of ditching his biggest stars. Ruud has seen what happened to David Beckham, Jaap Stam and Roy Keane."

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=387151&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=3&title=Wim:+Ruud+feel s+betrayed

[ho chi feen]

FLORENTINO PEREZ SHOULD HAVE WENT WHEN HE SIGNED BECKHAM

Can't argue with that.

[ho chi feen]

van nis is a legend without a doubt but was at his best when becks could land the ball in front of him.
definately always had an attitude problem though.... he could play shite for 6/7 games and if he was dropped for one hed throw shit at a fan.
nobody(except michael jordan) is bigger than the club so if hes causing unrest he should go.
the fuckin dutch are an arrogant fuckin race anyway....they are constantly bickering and there is always too much inteam fighting in their camp.
jesus if they kept some cool heads they could run riot in any competition.


and fuck peter kenyon for fucking up the ronaldinho deal as a last act as a utd employee.... the fucker knew he was on the road to london to join up with the rest of the gangsters.


Easy...

[ho chi feen]

IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

So you'd probably say that Scolari, Lippi, Capello and Mourinho are 'outdated in the modern game' too then, I take it?

[Langer Dan]

probably aload of bollocks given the source.

The Sun also reckons that Ruud van Nistelrooy 'has been warned he will be left to rot at Manchester United if he claims a pay-off.'

Sir Fergie wants to sell the Dutchman this summer but, with two years remaining on his contract, Ruud has demanded a £4.5m pay-off. However, The Sun claims ‘Fergie will rather pay him as a reserve than do that.'

To complete their macho stance, ManYoo are also refusing to sell Ruud on the cheap and want at least £10m from his suitors.

The Daily Mirror, on the other hand, report that Lyon will allow Mahamadou Diarra to go to Manchester United in exchange for Ruud van Nistelrooy and about £12m.

But when does an exchange deal actually ever happen?

The same thought has evidently occurred to The Daily Express who claim that 'Ruud van Nistelrooy is poised to wreck attempts by Manchester United to trade him for Lyon midfielder Mahamadou Diarra.'

hmm swap deals?

David Burrows and Don Hutchison for Julian Dicks.

Cant remeber the last one United were in volved in.

[homer jay]

probably aload of bollocks given the source.

The Sun also reckons that Ruud van Nistelrooy 'has been warned he will be left to rot at Manchester United if he claims a pay-off.'

Sir Fergie wants to sell the Dutchman this summer but, with two years remaining on his contract, Ruud has demanded a £4.5m pay-off. However, The Sun claims ‘Fergie will rather pay him as a reserve than do that.'

To complete their macho stance, ManYoo are also refusing to sell Ruud on the cheap and want at least £10m from his suitors.

The Daily Mirror, on the other hand, report that Lyon will allow Mahamadou Diarra to go to Manchester United in exchange for Ruud van Nistelrooy and about £12m.

But when does an exchange deal actually ever happen?

The same thought has evidently occurred to The Daily Express who claim that 'Ruud van Nistelrooy is poised to wreck attempts by Manchester United to trade him for Lyon midfielder Mahamadou Diarra.'

hmm swap deals?

David Burrows and Don Hutchison for Julian Dicks.

Cant remeber the last one United were in volved in.

pool swap owen for nunez + £8m, didn't work out for anyone in the end

[raZor]

kromkamp for joesmi, just JUST about worked out so far

[11 league titles]

.Cant remeber the last one United were in volved in
Keith Gillespie and 6 mil(?) for andy cole

[leeland]

United cannot afford to let Ruud rot in the reserves, they have been desperately trying to get playerts off the payroll since the takeover, they are up to their tits in debts so will hardly be forking out 90k a week because of fergies petty spitefulness

[MonTheHoops]

Keith Gillespie and 6 mil(?) for andy cole


Did anyone go to Fulham through the Saha deal? Im almost certain some kid went to Fulham.

[Paddy Wagon]

Did anyone go to Fulham through the Saha deal? Im almost certain some kid went to Fulham.
Dont think so but you maybe right, I was sure they paid 12.8 mill for him and that was it..

[MonTheHoops]

Dont think so but you maybe right, I was sure they paid 12.8 mill for him and that was it..


Away from that, how did John Curtis end up at Blackburn? Was it not part of a swap deal?

[Paddy Wagon]

Could have been when Utd signed Henning Berg maybe, definatley wasnt David May cos they played together at Utd..

[ho chi feen]

pool swap owen for nunez + £8m, didn't work out for anyone in the end

Disagree strongly. Real made a nice sum off that deal.

[raZor]

and they got rid of Nunez nice job!

[homer jay]

Disagree strongly. Real made a nice sum off that deal.

i meant for the players, nunez struggled to get into the pool side as did owen for madrid. but i see your point, madrid were actually big winners there

[STEVIEG]

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=391813&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=4161&title=Ronaldo+dismis ses+Ruud+spat

[ho chi feen]

Anyone think Ruud might be staying at OT after all?

[Langer Dan]

Anyone think Ruud might be staying at OT after all?

i dunno, id be surprised.

[Philby]

IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

They enthuse players, they motivate them, they let them know exactly what they want from them and how they fit into the bigger picture.

Their players go out onto the pitch utterly convinced that if they follow their instructions everything will go to plan. Far too often players at United have been rubbed up the wrong way by their manager & simply don't feel that unity..instead of respect for their manager they feel a mixture of fear & contempt.

Ferguson should never have gone back on his decision to retire. His pride wouldn't let him go through with it and he will pay the price because his legacy will be partly soured by the (relative) underachievement in his final few years.

Strachan airs similar concerns on Fergie's style

Strachan reveals troubles with Fergie
Sunday, 30 July 2006 12:29
http://dynimg.rte.ie/000054310c1m.jpg
Gordon Strachan

Gordon Strachan has finally responded to Alex Ferguson's criticism of him in his 1999 autobiography by claiming the Manchester United boss bullied him during their time together at Aberdeen and Old Trafford.
Ferguson's uncompromising man-management skills are well known throughout the game, with Ruud van Nistelrooy becoming the latest player to come off worse after a disagreement with the Scot.
And in his new book 'Strachan: My Life In Football', the Celtic boss says he was picked on by Ferguson - 'a man who thrives on conflict' - at Aberdeen and United.
Strachan, whose book is serialised in a Sunday newspaper, said: 'As much as I admire Fergie for what he has achieved, I have to admit this is offset by the memories of the deterioration in our relationship.
'As indicated by his comments about our time together in his 1999 autobiography Managing My Life, it would seem that Fergie is not too enamoured with me either.
'Those comments, which related mainly to my desire to leave Aberdeen and Manchester United, and included Fergie stating that I "could not be trusted an inch", surprised and disappointed me. I know I made one or two mistakes in my dealings with him, but I feel there were mitigating circumstances,' he said.
'One of the problems in my relationship with him was that the longer we worked together, the more I needed him to adopt a different attitude and approach with me.
'I needed him to treat me as an adult, not a kid; to have some respect for the fact that I was an experienced professional to whom abuse from the manager had become more of a motivational turn-off than a stimulus.
'Not long after he joined me at Manchester United and took up from where he had left off with me at Aberdeen, I remember telling him: "Listen, you spoke to me like that nine years ago. It might have worked well then, but it is not going to work now."
'But the screaming and shouting did not cease - it just got worse and more personal.'
Strachan decided to leave Aberdeen when his contract expired in 1984 with Cologne and Manchester United interested in his services.
Strachan recalls: 'His behaviour made me think that he looked on my decision to leave Aberdeen as a personal slight. At team meetings he would say: 'Where do you think you're going? Who would want a crap player like you?'
After Strachan's protracted transfer saga took him to United, Ferguson took over as manager two years later to reunite the pair.
'In November 1986 he joined me at Old Trafford. It was a great move for him and Manchester United, but not, as it turned out, a great move for me.
'I had loved playing for Ron Atkinson at United. After being beaten with a big stick for so long at Aberdeen, it was refreshing to have a manager who trusted and appreciated me, and treated me as an adult.
'When Fergie moved to United, I had to endure the big stick again.
'It is sad that our relationship has come to this. One day it would be great to sit down with him and have a proper chat about our clashes, to bring our relationship closer to what it was like in its most harmonious periods.'

[MonTheHoops]

Strachan would do well to heed his own advice and not talk down to the players.

[Langer Dan]

I like Strachan hes one of the few characters in football with a keen sense of humour. Some of his quotes to the press are legendary.

He shouldnt have been allowed to leave United , he was fantastic for leeds.

[MonTheHoops]

I like Strachan hes one of the few characters in football with a keen sense of humour.

It's only funny when it's not your own club he's managing.

[ho chi feen]

Strachan airs similar concerns on Fergie's style

He would though, wouldn't he? He's got his own agenda there. Of course, if Fergie did similar you could say the same.

[ho chi feen]

He shouldnt have been allowed to leave United , he was fantastic for leeds.

He wanted to leave.

[STEVIEG]

I'd say he has defo played his last game for United now!

[ho chi feen]

I'd say he has defo played his last game for United now!


Heh heh heh

[ho chi feen]

Oh and Philby? It's a bit rich to be dragging that post up when you ran hiding after we challenged your simplistic assertions at the time.

Strachan airs similar concerns on Fergie's style



IMHO Ferguson has proven himself to be a great manager with exceptional motivational skills & ability to foster amazing team spirit but his style is becoming more and more outdated in the modern game.

He is quite an abrasive character who is obsessed with checking up on his players, treating them like kids (which is why he got the best out of the beckham/scholes crop - they were at the club from a very early age & Fergie was a father figure of sorts). You simply cannot do that in the modern game when they earn so much money & aren't anywhere near as dependant on have a good relationship with the manager in order to make a living.

You have to earn their respect, not their fear. Wenger & Benitez are great examples of intelligent men who are tactically adept, focused and driven to succeed but go about the job in a completely different way to Ferguson's hair-dryer approach.

They enthuse players, they motivate them, they let them know exactly what they want from them and how they fit into the bigger picture.

Their players go out onto the pitch utterly convinced that if they follow their instructions everything will go to plan. Far too often players at United have been rubbed up the wrong way by their manager & simply don't feel that unity..instead of respect for their manager they feel a mixture of fear & contempt.

Ferguson should never have gone back on his decision to retire. His pride wouldn't let him go through with it and he will pay the price because his legacy will be partly soured by the (relative) underachievement in his final few years.

And his team still finish ahead of Rafa's and Wenger's...........

So you'd probably say that Scolari, Lippi, Capello and Mourinho are 'outdated in the modern game' too then, I take it?

Dodger.

[xvis]

Strachan airs similar concerns on Fergie's style

Strachan reveals troubles with Fergie
Sunday, 30 July 2006 12:29
http://dynimg.rte.ie/000054310c1m.jpg
Gordon Strachan

Gordon Strachan has finally responded to Alex Ferguson's criticism of him in his 1999 autobiography by claiming the Manchester United boss bullied him during their time together at Aberdeen and Old Trafford.
Ferguson's uncompromising man-management skills are well known throughout the game, with Ruud van Nistelrooy becoming the latest player to come off worse after a disagreement with the Scot.
And in his new book 'Strachan: My Life In Football', the Celtic boss says he was picked on by Ferguson - 'a man who thrives on conflict' - at Aberdeen and United.
Strachan, whose book is serialised in a Sunday newspaper, said: 'As much as I admire Fergie for what he has achieved, I have to admit this is offset by the memories of the deterioration in our relationship.
'As indicated by his comments about our time together in his 1999 autobiography Managing My Life, it would seem that Fergie is not too enamoured with me either.
'Those comments, which related mainly to my desire to leave Aberdeen and Manchester United, and included Fergie stating that I "could not be trusted an inch", surprised and disappointed me. I know I made one or two mistakes in my dealings with him, but I feel there were mitigating circumstances,' he said.
'One of the problems in my relationship with him was that the longer we worked together, the more I needed him to adopt a different attitude and approach with me.
'I needed him to treat me as an adult, not a kid; to have some respect for the fact that I was an experienced professional to whom abuse from the manager had become more of a motivational turn-off than a stimulus.
'Not long after he joined me at Manchester United and took up from where he had left off with me at Aberdeen, I remember telling him: "Listen, you spoke to me like that nine years ago. It might have worked well then, but it is not going to work now."
'But the screaming and shouting did not cease - it just got worse and more personal.'
Strachan decided to leave Aberdeen when his contract expired in 1984 with Cologne and Manchester United interested in his services.
Strachan recalls: 'His behaviour made me think that he looked on my decision to leave Aberdeen as a personal slight. At team meetings he would say: 'Where do you think you're going? Who would want a crap player like you?'
After Strachan's protracted transfer saga took him to United, Ferguson took over as manager two years later to reunite the pair.
'In November 1986 he joined me at Old Trafford. It was a great move for him and Manchester United, but not, as it turned out, a great move for me.
'I had loved playing for Ron Atkinson at United. After being beaten with a big stick for so long at Aberdeen, it was refreshing to have a manager who trusted and appreciated me, and treated me as an adult.
'When Fergie moved to United, I had to endure the big stick again.
'It is sad that our relationship has come to this. One day it would be great to sit down with him and have a proper chat about our clashes, to bring our relationship closer to what it was like in its most harmonious periods.'



..welcome to 23 years ago.

..I recall when Strachan found out at United training that Ferguson was to be appointed United boss, he quipped to the other players "..well that's me fucked then" ..or words to that effect.


and stuff such as..
'Where do you think you're going? Who would want a crap player like you?'
is merely terms of affection in Scotland and translates as "you're a cracking wee player and I'd hate to lose ya"

[Philby]

Oh and Philby? It's a bit rich to be dragging that post up when you ran hiding after we challenged your simplistic assertions at the time.

Dodger.

As you well know I'm never one to ignore a spot of light-hearted chat with your good self when the opportunity presents itself. My only excuse would be that I was possibly up the walls at work and it had dropped off the top page by the time I got back onto the PROC...either that or you out-witted me, we all know which is more likely ;-)

I completely stand by my main assertion that this abrasive, overbearing style is becoming less and less effective in the modern game.

A collaborative, calm management style which instill respect and motivation in the players (e.g. Rijkaard & Benitez are two good examples) is becoming increasingly the style of choice and is being rewarded accordingly.

While Scolari, Lippi, Capello and Mourinho are all quite headstrong characters who aren't afriad to air their views I think they strike a better balance between the two styles than Ferguson has managed in recent years.

Players are united don't have quite the same respect for him as in previous years and the loss of RVN (with no obvious replacement on thes way thus far) is indicative of his style cutting off his nose to spite his face.

[ho chi feen]

While Scolari, Lippi, Capello and Mourinho are all quite headstrong characters who aren't afriad to air their views I think they strike a better balance between the two styles than Ferguson has managed in recent years.

I don't think you know much about Italian football then. Capello makes Ferguson's antics look tame- his modus operandi is to fight with all his star player, to wind them up, that's what he's done with everyone from Totti to Raul to Cannovaro. He dishes out nothing but abuse. It seems to have served him well, Real certainly didn't think he was 'outdated' this summer.

As for Mourinho, I needn't outline, but take Robben, Cole, Carvalho and his reaction to Gallas and Drogba's transfer talk as example. Ditto Adrian Mutu.

Some of the oft catologued antics Scolari got up during his phenomenly successful career in Brazil would probably leave your delicate sensitivities in tatters, and ask any Juve or Inter fan about Lippi's favoured tactics.

It's not a case of modernity or changing times, there have always been softly-spoken managers and there have always been those who favour a more confrontational approach, and there always will be. Neither is inherently better, or more 'modern' than the other. It's a matter of individual styles.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

[Philby]

Its fair to say that my knowledge of Italian football through the years is well below my knowledge of English & Spanish football so if you're saying that Capello is as much of a cnut as Fergie then I'll take your word for it.

I'd still stand by my original point that a more considered, calm approach is becoming more and more effective in the modern game where even the most average players are living lives of absolute luxury

[ho chi feen]

Its fair to say that my knowledge of Italian football through the years is well below my knowledge of English & Spanish football so if you're saying that Capello is as much of a cnut as Fergie then I'll take your word for it.


He's an even bigger cunt. I'd probably hate to work for someone like him.


I'd still stand by my original point that a more considered, calm approach is becoming more and more effective in the modern game where even the most average players are living lives of absolute luxury

I don't buy that line at all, I never have. Just because players have a few extra zeroes at the end of their pay packets doesn't mean they've gotten any more or less intelligent, or any more urbane. It just means they're rich.

[Philby]

It means that they don't need to have top careers to be financially secure, they don't even need to play 1st team football. That's the challenge. The fear of leaving your family scraping to pay the bills is long gone, what makes the difference at this level is getting players to buy-in to your philosophy...I don't think ranting & raving is necessarilly the best way to do that

[ho chi feen]

It means that they don't need to have top careers to be financially secure, they don't even need to play 1st team football. That's the challenge. The fear of leaving your family scraping to pay the bills is long gone, what makes the difference at this level is getting players to buy-in to your philosophy...I don't think ranting & raving is necessarilly the best way to do that

The fear of leaving your family scraping to pay the bills is long gone. As you said, it's long gone. It's been gone a very long time. All of those managers I mentioned have still managed to be incredibly successful even after those days were gone.

It's a question of managerial quality, not methodology. David Platt took a philosophical approach and bombed and the likes of John Gregory never got anywhere by ranting at their players, but that's because they were both shit managers.

[Roman Abramovich]

never a fan of ruuds....
he never brought anything to the utd team when he wasnt scoring....

except!!! this season. The guy finally started to be involved in build up play and wasnt as greedy as he used to be and personally i tought it was his best year as a man utd team player.

and what did fergie do? shafted him....
just like stam and had no one to replace him
just like becks and had no one to replace him
just like keane and had no one to replace him


fergie should have went when he sold beckham.....now he should be sacked.

[STEVIEG]

never a fan of ruuds....
he never brought anything to the utd team when he wasnt scoring....

except!!! this season. The guy finally started to be involved in build up play and wasnt as greedy as he used to be and personally i tought it was his best year as a man utd team player.

and what did fergie do? shafted him....
just like stam and had no one to replace him
just like becks and had no one to replace him
just like keane and had no one to replace him


fergie should have went when he sold beckham.....now he should be sacked.

He was much better 3 years ago
He's been poor since Christmas
Hasn't scored in big games for united in distant memory
Looks more and more isolated
They've played better without him
And he got rid of Keane and Beckham at the right time
Ruud is still good, but not as essential as he used to be to United

[Roman Abramovich]

Ruud is still good, but not as essential as he used to be to United

ill bump it in may....

[STEVIEG]

ill bump it in may....


I'll be waiting

I have more faith in the managers judgement than anyone elses

[Sound]

ill bump it in may....

Will Henry be replaced by Baros then as well, oh great oracle?

[ho chi feen]

fergie should have went when he sold beckham......

No, Perez should have went when he signed Beckham. Up until that point, their policy had been to sign the best players in the world. Up until that point, they'd won either the league title or the Champion's League in 6 of the previous seasons. They could have signed Ronaldinho, and kept up the policy of sgning the best. Instead, he chose style over substance, and whilst the club now turns a healthy profit they haven't come close to winning anything since.

Perez should have gone when he signed Beckham. But in the end, he waited until he got pushed.

[STEVIEG]

He was much better 3 years ago
He's been poor since Christmas
Hasn't scored in big games for united in distant memory
Looks more and more isolated
They've played better without him
And he got rid of Keane and Beckham at the right time
Ruud is still good, but not as essential as he used to be to United

Fao Naff

[STEVIEG]

ill bump it in may....

Fao Naff

[STEVIEG]

I disagree but who cares really
I've been over and seen him in the flesh many times
A hard working player who covers load sof ground
Rooney said as much recently and was crediting him for improving his game
he hasn't complained he has gone on with it (till today)
He has been a total professional for Man United and thats why his name was sung today (and no matter what happens) will be sung for many years to come

I'm gonna give Ruud major respect for loads of goals this season

Still popular at Old Trafford

Fergie was proved right in getting rid of him but i'm delighted he has done well

[Roman Abramovich]

never a fan of ruuds....
he never brought anything to the utd team when he wasnt scoring....

except!!! this season. The guy finally started to be involved in build up play and wasnt as greedy as he used to be and personally i tought it was his best year as a man utd team player.

and what did fergie do? shafted him....
just like stam and had no one to replace him
just like becks and had no one to replace him
just like keane and had no one to replace him


fergie should have went when he sold beckham.....now he should be sacked.

bump......
still stands......

one swallow doesnt make a spring stevie. 3 full seasons of no league title. heading for 9 full seasons without even a european final.

fergie should go. right now hell go on a high.

[STEVIEG]

bump......
still stands......

one swallow doesnt make a spring stevie. 3 full seasons of no league title. heading for 9 full seasons without even a european final.

fergie should go. right now hell go on a high.

Champions

The phrase, only as good as your last game, springs to mind

I said that selling him wouldn't be a disaster

You said you'd bump it in May

Ruud has been super but United are Champions so the maanger was proved right

[Roman Abramovich]

Champions

The phrase, only as good as your last game, springs to mind

I said that selling him wouldn't be a disaster

You said you'd bump it in May

Ruud has been super but United are Champions so the maanger was proved right

no he wasnt....he wont the league fair dues.
last time i checked utd got knocked out of the champions league for not scoring. in fact they threw on a half injured saha to try and get a goal and no good. they were toothless up front.

sure they won an unexpected league title. fair dues. they still flopped on the big stage and for a team like utd with the money they make and the fan base its not good enough to continually flop in europe.

last week the club ranting and raving about a treble. ye out of the champions league for bad defending and being toothless up front. Ye league champions before chelsea match thanks to arsenal....because the pressure of losing to chelsea at the bridge might just have fucked ye up for west-ham.

Fergie fluked this title due to a bad run from chelsea....Fair dues though. i didnt expect chelsea to have such a poor season and utd capitalised.

Ye could end up with one trophy.......the league. Liverpool could once again end up champions of europe. And thats a major flop to me.

Ill return to the long grass............Any one who doesnt think a player like ruud is a loss to utd or any team for that matter is a fool.

[STEVIEG]

21 points ahead of Arsenal and Liverpool

Suck it up and please, have a bit of grace

btw, Real Madrid did really well in Europe.........

[POL]

good points Naff.

[STEVIEG]

last week the club ranting and raving about a treble. .

Who?

[STEVIEG]

no he wasnt....he wont the league fair dues.
last time i checked utd got knocked out of the champions league for not scoring. in fact they threw on a half injured saha to try and get a goal and no good. they were toothless up front.

sure they won an unexpected league title. fair dues. they still flopped on the big stage and for a team like utd with the money they make and the fan base its not good enough to continually flop in europe.

last week the club ranting and raving about a treble. ye out of the champions league for bad defending and being toothless up front. Ye league champions before chelsea match thanks to arsenal....because the pressure of losing to chelsea at the bridge might just have fucked ye up for west-ham.

Fergie fluked this title due to a bad run from chelsea....Fair dues though. i didnt expect chelsea to have such a poor season and utd capitalised.

Ye could end up with one trophy.......the league. Liverpool could once again end up champions of europe. And thats a major flop to me.

Ill return to the long grass............Any one who doesnt think a player like ruud is a loss to utd or any team for that matter is a fool.

Naff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXpUdBlRZe8

[STEVIEG]

Fergie's Empire Strikes Back
UNITED MARCHING ON HOW SELLING RUUD INSPIRED SIR ALEX TO HIS GREATEST TRIUMPH .. and now the master must rebuild again to ensure his United dynasty stays on top
David Mcdonnell 08/05/2007

OF ALL the decisions Sir Alex Ferguson has made as Manchester United boss, selling Ruud van Nistelrooy was the one that ultimately brought the Premiership title back to Old Trafford after an agonising four-year wait.

Flogging off the club's most prolific scorer to Real Madrid last summer may have seemed an unwise move, but Fergie's judgment in offloading van Nistelrooy has been fully vindicated thanks to the completion of his ninth Premiership success.

And now the challenge for Fergie, having steered United back to the summit of the domestic game, is sustaining their position - and ensuring there is no repeat of the four-year hiatus they had to endure since their last Premiership success.
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Owen Hargreaves' arrival at Old Trafford is imminent, while Fergie must buy at least one striker to support Rooney.

Expect Louis Saha to be sold, possibly in a player-plus-cash deal for Tottenham's Dimitar Berbatov.

Hargreaves will fill the midfield enforcer role still left vacant following the departure of Roy Keane, while Southampton's 18-year-old Gareth Bale is expected to arrive this summer for £7m as United's long-term left-back.

Those expected to be heading out of Old Trafford - along with Saha - include Kieran Richardson, Mikael Silvestre and Gabriel Heinze.

England goalkeeper Ben Foster will return from his loan spell at Watford to challenge Tomasz Kusczak for the right to succeed Edwin van der Sar as United's first-choice between the posts.

But as Fergie basked in the afterglow of his latest title triumph, it was possible to identify the catalyst for it as last summer's sale of van Nistelrooy following five prolific seasons at the club.

Despite van Nistelrooy's fine scoring record, Fergie realised his side needed to change the way they played in order to become champions once again.

Starved of pace with the lumbering presence of van Nistelrooy in attack, a change of dynamics was required.

The Holland striker was also considered a negative influence in the dressing-room, his frequent clashes with Cristiano Ronaldo behind the scenes and on the training field undermining the young Portugal winger's confidence and development as a player.

But with the sale of van Nistelrooy came the return of United's trademark cavalier play, at breathtaking speed, along with the emergence of Ronaldo as the best player in the world and the full liberation of Wayne Rooney's precocious attacking talent.

And Fergie's belief that the new-found harmony within his squad was key to their title success contained a loaded reference to the Dutchman's acrimonious exit.

"We've a good bunch of lads here now, good harmony in the dressing room," said Fergie yesterday. "I've been saying that all season and it's true.

We've got a more harmonious bunch here now. There were no worries about that at all. We went on to the football field with a bunch of honest players, and when you can do that it will always give you a chance if it's backed up by ability."

This season's champions represent Fergie's fourth great United side.

And the 65-year-old Scot, who celebrated 20 years in charge at Old Trafford last November, revealed his pride in the manner of his team's latest success. "There were times when we overstretched ourselves attacking-wise and times when we needed more control and discipline in our attacking," he said. "But when we're in full flow we're a potent sight and the goal threat was always there."

United's transformation this season was nothing short of remarkable and owes much to the sustained brilliance of Rooney and Ronaldo, among other key factors.

The return of Paul Scholes after missing five months of last season with a serious eye problem was crucial, as was the acquisition of Michael Carrick, who has ultimately justified his £18.6m transfer fee.

The emergence of Nemanja Vidic as a regular defensive partner for Rio Ferdinand gave United solidity at the back, while the supporting cast of John O'Shea, Darren Fletcher and Wes Brown all played their part in recent weeks when injuries took their toll.

While Fergie admitted to feeling "invigorated" by the brilliance of his dynamic duo of Ronaldo and Rooney this season, the United boss did admit that losing the title for a third successive season left him deflated and tired. Watching Chelsea emulate United as the only team to successfully defend the Premiership title then hurt Fergie so much he could not wait to embark on his summer holiday.

But it also served to heighten his desire and appetite to win back the trophy. "Age creeps up on you quickly," he said. "I still think I'm 58! But all of a sudden you see in the papers that you're 65 and I think to myself 'I can't be that old'.

"You wonder where the years have gone. You wonder how you compare with five or six years ago. I don't notice any dramatic changes in me, although there must be changes. Last season I was tired in the sense that I wanted to go on holiday.

"There were moments last season when we went on a great run and I thought we might catch Chelsea, then we drew 0-0 with Sunderland. That's when I needed a holiday."

Despite his relief and delight at ending Chelsea's new-found domination of the Premiership, this is no time for Fergie to be looking to his holidays.

There is the little matter of an FA Cup Final showdown with Jose Mourinho's side just 11 days away and with it, of course, the prospect of a fourth domestic Double.

some bullshit

some good points

[RonnyB]

no he wasnt....he wont the league fair dues.
last time i checked utd got knocked out of the champions league for not scoring. in fact they threw on a half injured saha to try and get a goal and no good. they were toothless up front.

sure they won an unexpected league title. fair dues. they still flopped on the big stage and for a team like utd with the money they make and the fan base its not good enough to continually flop in europe.

last week the club ranting and raving about a treble. ye out of the champions league for bad defending and being toothless up front. Ye league champions before chelsea match thanks to arsenal....because the pressure of losing to chelsea at the bridge might just have fucked ye up for west-ham.

Fergie fluked this title due to a bad run from chelsea....Fair dues though. i didnt expect chelsea to have such a poor season and utd capitalised.

Ye could end up with one trophy.......the league. Liverpool could once again end up champions of europe. And thats a major flop to me.

Ill return to the long grass............Any one who doesnt think a player like ruud is a loss to utd or any team for that matter is a fool.

Last season with Ruud in the team United scored 3 goals in the Champions League out of 6 games. Great total that was'nt it?

Bad defending was caused by missing Neville & Rio for both legs of the semi's, Vidic only playing the away game while not match fit & Evra not being match fit for the home leg. All this while facing the best attacking player in the world at the moment.

Anyone who suggests United flopped in Europe this season is in cuckoo land. Playing against a top side without your 1st choice defense and losing isn't any surprise to United fans. I'd have said something if Fergie had his 1st choice defense over the 2 games. Dunno if I posted this on here but I'd compare the Milan result to the Roma one in the way the were over blown. There is no way United are that much better than Roma as 7-1 suggested even though I agree with Edmund over how poor they are. Also I dont think Milan are a 3-0 victory over United everytime they play.

Semi finals of the champions league this season was'nt bad at all for this United side.

As for fluking the title then fair enough, theres plenty of evidence to suggest they did considering Chelsea's injuries but United had there tough shit moments as well yet still emerged as winners.

[POL]

Owen Hargreeves HEHE, A fraud of the highest order, I hope ManYoo do sign him

[STEVIEG]

Ye could end up with one trophy.......the league. And thats a major flop to me.


where the fuck does that leave Arsenal......

[Roman Abramovich]

Last season with Ruud in the team United scored 3 goals in the Champions League out of 6 games. Great total that was'nt it?

Bad defending was caused by missing Neville & Rio for both legs of the semi's, Vidic only playing the away game while not match fit & Evra not being match fit for the home leg. All this while facing the best attacking player in the world at the moment.

Anyone who suggests United flopped in Europe this season is in cuckoo land. Playing against a top side without your 1st choice defense and losing isn't any surprise to United fans. I'd have said something if Fergie had his 1st choice defense over the 2 games. Dunno if I posted this on here but I'd compare the Milan result to the Roma one in the way the were over blown. There is no way United are that much better than Roma as 7-1 suggested even though I agree with Edmund over how poor they are. Also I dont think Milan are a 3-0 victory over United everytime they play.

Semi finals of the champions league this season was'nt bad at all for this United side.

As for fluking the title then fair enough, theres plenty of evidence to suggest they did considering Chelsea's injuries but United had there tough shit moments as well yet still emerged as winners.
look how many chances roma had in that 7-1 demolition. bad defending. as seen in trafford against milan (and punished). And punished at the san siro.


treble me hole....... one european cup in 13 years of being the biggest most supported team in england if not in europe....

a treble? what next? well do the double.

average team who achieved extradionary results.

[Roman Abramovich]

where the fuck does that leave Arsenal......

whats this got to do with arsenal? arsenal are rebuilding, moving. If arsenal havent wont the league next may ill answer that wan....typical manc. make a point about them and divert it to other teams.

petty.

[STEVIEG]

Yes, Naff

United defend badly in Europe


Nothing to do with Ruud though

Fergie was right

He made a tough, but a good decision

Dressing room harmony has now been restored
And the team are Champions and one title away from two decades of domestic domination, 9 titles of which Ruud was involved with one (though he was excellent hat year)

Sure united need to defned better in Europe and do better there, but it HAS been a good season

[STEVIEG]

whats this got to do with arsenal? arsenal are rebuilding, moving. If arsenal havent wont the league next may ill answer that wan....typical manc. make a point about them and divert it to other teams.

petty.

I'm not a Manc

And it has loads to do with Arsenal

They are 21 points of united and were out of everything months ago

And yet, you are saying that United have had a bad season

A sense of perspective please

And while we are on the subject. Arsenal didn't win the league for United

They did their best to Stop united by taking 6 points of them

They nearly bottled it against a weak 10 man Chelsea team the other day too but that shows up their limitations, not Uniteds

[Roman Abramovich]

I'm not a Manc

And it has loads to do with Arsenal

They are 21 points of united and were out of everything months ago

And yet, you are saying that United have had a bad season

A sense of perspective please

And while we are on the subject. Arsenal didn't win the league for United

They did their best to Stop united by taking 6 points of them

They nearly bottled it against a weak 10 man Chelsea team the other day too but that shows up their limitations, not Uniteds

we were talking about utd.....typical manc style you divert it to be about arsenal. man utd needed arsenal to stop chelsea. we did. thus putting no pressure on ye for the game against chelsea.....
its a shame ye didnt win it on the pitch....its great. arsenal done it at olf trafford and white hart lane. feels great.

Arsenal beat utd twice in the league this season. A season they played "crap" in. And they were able to beat utd twice. just shows what limitations utd have. No doubt next season after being beaten twice theyll figure the only way to stop arsenal is by kicking them again.

see you diverted this thread into arsenal limitations. Manc style.

As i said, ill return to the long grass and revist your views when utd build on this....sadly they wont. They havent since 1999 after all. And now the domestic league is finally getting a bit of competition going from various clubs? i doubt they will domestically too.

*returns to long grass cause arguying with mancs is pointless*

[Edmund Blackwater]

*returns to long grass cause arguying with mancs is pointless*

It's like beating a downser at Tennis.

[STEVIEG]

As i said, ill return to the long grass and revist your views when utd build on this....sadly they wont. They havent since 1999 after all. And now the domestic league is finally getting a bit of competition going from various clubs? i doubt they will domestically too.


Domestically since 1999

Man United 4 Premierships
Arsenal 2 Premierships
Chelsea 2 Premierships

Way to prove my point

[STEVIEG]

Arsenal beat utd twice in the league this season. A season they played "crap" in. And they were able to beat utd twice. just shows what limitations utd have.

It's pity they don't give out titles for Arsenal betaing United

Then the wild celebrations at the end of the game at the Emirates might have been justified:)

[Roman Abramovich]

Domestically since 1999

Man United 4 Premierships
Arsenal 2 Premierships
Chelsea 2 Premierships

Way to prove my point

european cup finals 0
average liverpool team 2
average arsenal team 1
lets not even discuss porto.....

they have never built on domestic success since 99. never. stayed static and sold important players.

[STEVIEG]

they have never built on domestic success since 99. never. stayed static and sold important players.



and they still won twice as many titles as the much wanked upon Arsenal plus Chelsea

Beckham is piling up the trophies since he went though in fairness........

[Roman Abramovich]

and they still won twice as many titles as the much wanked upon Arsenal plus Chelsea

Beckham is piling up the trophies since he went though in fairness........

and spent twice as much money as the wanked upon arsenal....
see the only way ye ever talk about yere own club is to talk about others.
sad biy........

and as for becks....yeve been piling them up since he left too.

[STEVIEG]

see the only way ye ever talk about yere own club is to talk about others.
sad biy........

Nope, I'm saying 4 titles is pretty good considering they are supposedly in freefall since 1999

[Roman Abramovich]

It's pity they don't give out titles for Arsenal betaing United

Then the wild celebrations at the end of the game at the Emirates might have been justified:)

like the wans they should have handed out at goodison park?
no class.

[Roman Abramovich]

Nope, I'm saying 4 titles is pretty good considering they are supposedly in freefall since 1999

not paticulary.....not considering the greatness of the 99 team. 4 titles. not even close to getting to a major final. Its slowley turning in to another england 66.

[STEVIEG]

like the wans they should have handed out at goodison park?
no class.

Henry laughing at Neville and tapping him as he scored

True

[Roman Abramovich]

Henry laughing at Neville and tapping him as he scored

True

rooney kissing the badge on front of the everton fans.....doing step overs to wind them up when he doesnt do step overs.

Classy feen....

Forgot his roots like most other "manc" players

[STEVIEG]

not paticulary.....not considering the greatness of the 99 team. 4 titles. not even close to getting to a major final..

Lost one semi on goal difference and got to one more

Beaten by the champions in a good few too

Poor

yes

Not even close

No


You using Europe as an argument is pretty pathetic though

What has the mighty Wenger done in Europe, with some of the best players of the modern era?

[oliver hymn]

we were talking about utd.....typical manc style you divert it to be about arsenal. man utd needed arsenal to stop chelsea. we did. thus putting no pressure on ye for the game against chelsea.....
its a shame ye didnt win it on the pitch....its great. arsenal done it at olf trafford and white hart lane. feels great.

Arsenal beat utd twice in the league this season. A season they played "crap" in. And they were able to beat utd twice. just shows what limitations utd have. No doubt next season after being beaten twice theyll figure the only way to stop arsenal is by kicking them again.

see you diverted this thread into arsenal limitations. Manc style.

As i said, ill return to the long grass and revist your views when utd build on this....sadly they wont. They havent since 1999 after all. And now the domestic league is finally getting a bit of competition going from various clubs? i doubt they will domestically too.

*returns to long grass cause arguying with mancs is pointless*
dumbass.

[STEVIEG]

rooney kissing the badge on front of the everton fans.....doing step overs to wind them up when he doesnt do step overs.

Classy feen....

Forgot his roots like most other "manc" players

The poor Everton fans were totally respectful of him

I forgot

And as for class

a certain peno miss in Arsenals best league ever season springs to mind.......

[Roman Abramovich]

The poor Everton fans were totally respectful of him

I forgot

And as for class

a certain peno miss in Arsenals best league ever season springs to mind.......

see stevie......thats all you can do.
is ur utd history so limited that all you can do is recall arsenal events and discuss arsenal or is it that they play such good football your always watching them?

[STEVIEG]

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson says it was not a difficult decision allowing Ruud van Nistelrooy to leave for Real Madrid last summer.

The Dutch marksman was a big hit during his time at Old Trafford scoring nearly a century of league goals for the Premiership giants.

Ferguson has hinted Van Nistelrooy had become a disruptive influence in the dressing room and that something had to give for the club to move forward.

The experienced Scottish tactician was much more aggrieved when calling time on Roy Keane's tenure at United, but feels the right decisions have been made.

"Well, Roy was certainly a difficult one," Ferguson said "He has been such a big influence on the club.

"I'm not so sure about Van Nistelrooy. That was not such a big decision at all.

"You need a good team spirit in the dressing room and from day one this group seem to gel straight away. That was what I wanted.

"I kept referring to that through the season. The spirit was brilliant and that was important.

"We had to made big important decisions about how we change the team. That's not easy."

[STEVIEG]

see stevie......thats all you can do.
is ur utd history so limited that all you can do is recall arsenal events and discuss arsenal or is it that they play such good football your always watching them?

I'm talking about Manchester United

I only mentioned Arsenal because an Arsenal fan had the nerve to call United season a failure

I actually like Arsenal

They play football the proper way and they have players and a manager who i respect

let's get back to the topic

[RonnyB]

look how many chances roma had in that 7-1 demolition. bad defending. as seen in trafford against milan (and punished). And punished at the san siro.


treble me hole....... one european cup in 13 years of being the biggest most supported team in england if not in europe....

a treble? what next? well do the double.

average team who achieved extradionary results.

Who mentioned a treble besides the media? Thats nothing to do with us United fans here.

I dont think Ruud's absence had anything to do with United's poor defending. United's poor defending during April was down to injuries and VDS suffering a dip in form. Still though semi final this year is a massive improvement on last years effort when Ruud was in the team. As for your point still standing you probably said what you said with regards domestic success, never mind Europe.

Average team? Certainly not the best United side ever but any team calling them average is petty. Where does that leave the other 3 of the so called big 4 if United are average?

As for your comments regarding United kicking Arsenal off the pitch in order to beat them I didnt see too much kicking in the 4-2 win at Highbury '05 or the 2-0 win last April at Old Trafford. United having to kick Arsenal to win just another ABU myth.

[xvis]

United are not doing too bad for 'an ordinary side'.


not too bad at all.

[Roman Abramovich]

United are not doing too bad for 'an ordinary side'.


not too bad at all.

seconded for this season.......
lets see next season.

[STEVIEG]

seconded for this season.......
lets see next season.

Fair enough that's what you said at the start of this season

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=10923 88&postcount=99

Anyway, we'll see what happens next year but Ruud will be even older next season

It's clear that Fergie so him as a bad influence in the dressing room

and it's clear that Fergie should not have been sacked, as you and a few more posters earlier in this thread, suggested

[STEVIEG]

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=10923 93&postcount=100

[Roman Abramovich]

Fair enough that's what you said at the start of this season

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=10923 88&postcount=99

Anyway, we'll see what happens next year but Ruud will be even older next season

It's clear that Fergie so him as a bad influence in the dressing room

and it's clear that Fergie should not have been sacked, as you and a few more posters earlier in this thread, suggested

no european final apperances since 1999. The big one. The one that jose will get sacked over (if he does)....What was fergies comments after 1999? This is the big one in world football. Utd should be in contention for it every year. We have finally landed it and now we will push on and try to win it a few more times. (or something to that effect).....

and what has he won? a few league titles......in 8 years hes won 4. in 3 years jose allready has half that amount.

failure of epic proportions. The biggest club in the world and porto have won it more than them in the same length of time fergies there.

major flaw in the fergie cabinet. major.

just like wenger......domestic ally can handle it, but when it comes to europe bottles it.

[STEVIEG]

no european final apperances since 1999. The big one. The one that jose will get sacked over (if he does)....What was fergies comments after 1999? This is the big one in world football. Utd should be in contention for it every year. We have finally landed it and now we will push on and try to win it a few more times. (or something to that effect).....

and what has he won? a few league titles......in 8 years hes won 4. in 3 years jose allready has half that amount.

failure of epic proportions. The biggest club in the world and porto have won it more than them in the same length of time fergies there.

major flaw in the fergie cabinet. major.

just like wenger......domestic ally can handle it, but when it comes to europe bottles it.

Whoever said it wasn't a flaw

United HAVE dissapointed in Europe and their big signings like Ruud (who was decent) and Veron didn't change that

Stick to the point-this is about Ruud

You said you'd bump it in May and i bumped it for ya

United got rid of Ruud
and did better in both the European Champions league and the Premiership, plus they are still the FA cup

Game, set and match

[Roman Abramovich]

Whoever said it wasn't a flaw

United HAVE dissapointed in Europe and their big signings like Ruud (who was decent) and Veron didn't change that

Stick to the point-this is about Ruud

You said you'd bump it in May and i bumped it for ya

United got rid of Ruud
and did better in both the European Champions league and the Premiership, plus they are still the FA cup

Game, set and match


its not the end of may........
utd have been knocked out of the champions league for not scoring more goals than milan.
they have to play the fa cup.

as i said. throughout a whole season ruud would be missed.....

last time i checked stevie the season isnt over.

[xvis]

seconded for this season.......
lets see next season.


hardly seconded, ..you're on your own with that one, I was merely quoting, ..and that stance was kept even as United looked set for the title.


but there have quite a few on here have been slow in the recognition of how United have performed this year.

***

..back to Ruud,


I'm still a fan of Ruud, and I disagree that Ruud's role in his last season was any different to any of his previous seasons. ...Ruud was always involved in the moves, ...there can no more sacrifice a player can make for the team than to play the lone man up front. Similar in a way to how Drogba has played this year ..although Drogba is more explosive in the shot from distance.
...and again Drogba has scored plenty but the rest of the team haven't.


Things didn't work out, but all United fans were set for moving on. Ruud's head was probably not right since the Keane departure and Ferguson has been proved 100% correct.
The one misgiving I have with the comparisions between goals scored this season and previous seasons is that United waited two years for midfield reinforcements and some decent midfield additions would always get the team going.


..where I did think we might miss Ruud this year would be in the big games, ..games at the Bridge and the Emirates and Champions League games, but Saha bagged CL goals in the Autumn and Rooney has stepped up to that plate in the last two CL rounds as well. Saha and Rooney have also scored this year against both Chelsea and Arsenal.

[RonnyB]

If anything Ruud should have probably gone when he 1st handed up his transfer request but with the Glazer's takeover and lack of signings, Fergie knew he had to keep hold of him in order to prevent a war breaking out within/around the club. also maybe he hoped he could persuade RVN to stay at the club longer.

At the time I thought Fergie was right to sell. The player wanted out, he was'nt guranteed his 1st choice place anymore & at his age it represented United's last chance to get decent money for him. Also the team looked to be playing better stuff in the 2nd half of last season with Saha as the target man.

[Roman Abramovich]

hardly seconded, ..you're on your own with that one, I was merely quoting, ..and that stance was kept even as United looked set for the title.


but there have quite a few on here have been slow in the recognition of how United have performed this year.

***

..back to Ruud,


I'm still a fan of Ruud, and I disagree that Ruud's role in his last season was any different to any of his previous seasons. ...Ruud was always involved in the moves, ...there can no more sacrifice a player can make for the team than to play the lone man up front. Similar in a way to how Drogba has played this year ..although Drogba is more explosive in the shot from distance.
...and again Drogba has scored plenty but the rest of the team haven't.


Things didn't work out, but all United fans were set for moving on. Ruud's head was probably not right since the Keane departure and Ferguson has been proved 100% correct.
The one misgiving I have with the comparisions between goals scored this season and previous seasons is that United waited two years for midfield reinforcements and some decent midfield additions would always get the team going.


..where I did think we might miss Ruud this year would be in the big games, ..games at the Bridge and the Emirates and Champions League games, but Saha bagged CL goals in the Autumn and Rooney has stepped up to that plate in the last two CL rounds as well. Saha and Rooney have also scored this year against both Chelsea and Arsenal.

wenger sold vieira and in the first without him got to the european cup final....beating madrid, juve, villareal. arsenal played way better in europe without him.

does that mean wenger was 100% correct. no it doesnt.
imagine what could have been achieved with yere all time leading european scorer in the team.

[xvis]

wenger sold vieira and in the first without him got to the european cup final....beating madrid, juve, villareal. arsenal played way better in europe without him.

does that mean wenger was 100% correct. no it doesnt.
imagine what could have been achieved with yere all time leading european scorer in the team.


Wenger was right to sell Viera, in fact he should have sold him earlier. Viera's last two years at Highbury were off the pace of his earlier years and he was always bitching about leaving.


United wasted two seasons of Ruud, Rooney, Ronnie and Rio by not having a decent midfield. ..two of Ruud's finest years wasted. ..The takeover wranglings and horses spunk didn't help.


This year United are back in the game.

[Roman Abramovich]

This year United are back in the game.

yes they truly are....chelsea crumbled under injuries and board room unsettlement. arsenal werent even a challenge with the big move and the no availible funds and as for liverpool? they still in the course of re-building.

this season as a whole was the best in a long while. we had 3 tables. the top two. the next two and the rest.

with spurs, villa, possibly newcastle and "mark my words" sunderland, making a leap ahead of the rest we could very well see the best premiership season next year. i think the pool will be better, chelsea will be better, arsenal will be better and the teams i mentioned above.

Next year i think the top two will deffo become the top 4 followed closely behind by the next 4.

Hopefully the league is coming back to having the top of the table being real challengers for the 4th champions league position and the bottom half being for the relegation contenders.

I hope utd build on what they have done this season. I take nothing away from them. But personally i think they capitalised on others failings as opposed to dominating their way to the title. They won it fair and square, no one else was good enough.

Next season there is no excuses.....none for jose, none for wenger, none for benitez.....and now that alex has won the league with his self proclaimed "rebuilt" team there will be no excuses.

a good tally of points despite 4 losses.

stevies answer to arsenals unbelievable unbeaten season is, well ye never bate utd that season. Arsenal beat utd twice this season. Once with ease, once by fluke.

arsenal lost 20pts with draws alone. And thats plain wrong.
and lost 15pts to relegation teams. Plain wrong.

Look at our losses in the season.
Man city - away - was in a relegation scrap
west ham - away - was in a relegation scrap
bolton - away - top half
fulham - away - was in a relegation scrap
sheffield utd - away - was in a relegation scrap
everton - away - top half
liverpool - away - top half
west ham - home - was in a relegation scrap

Dont worry bout the gunners...up to a month ago arsenal had won the title
sooner than utd and done better in europe....all while moving house and starting nearly every match with the youngest premiership side.

Im not worried, wenger said we'd go unbeaten, everyone laughed. We did.
Wenger says we will dominate england. I do believe him. Seen great football by the gunners this year.

fulham away, everton away, villa away and sheff utd at home arsenal were beyond poor in this season. All other they easily put in championship winning performances.

It will be allright. im not worried about carlos and alex claming this utd team will go on to dominate.

[STEVIEG]

yes they truly are....chelsea crumbled under injuries and board room unsettlement. arsenal werent even a challenge with the big move and the no availible funds and as for liverpool? they still in the course of re-building.

this season as a whole was the best in a long while. we had 3 tables. the top two. the next two and the rest.

with spurs, villa, possibly newcastle and "mark my words" sunderland, making a leap ahead of the rest we could very well see the best premiership season next year. i think the pool will be better, chelsea will be better, arsenal will be better and the teams i mentioned above.

Next year i think the top two will deffo become the top 4 followed closely behind by the next 4.

Hopefully the league is coming back to having the top of the table being real challengers for the 4th champions league position and the bottom half being for the relegation contenders.

I hope utd build on what they have done this season. I take nothing away from them. But personally i think they capitalised on others failings as opposed to dominating their way to the title. They won it fair and square, no one else was good enough.

Next season there is no excuses.....none for jose, none for wenger, none for benitez.....and now that alex has won the league with his self proclaimed "rebuilt" team there will be no excuses.

a good tally of points despite 4 losses.

stevies answer to arsenals unbelievable unbeaten season is, well ye never bate utd that season. Arsenal beat utd twice this season. Once with ease, once by fluke.

arsenal lost 20pts with draws alone. And thats plain wrong.
and lost 15pts to relegation teams. Plain wrong.

Look at our losses in the season.
Man city - away - was in a relegation scrap
west ham - away - was in a relegation scrap
bolton - away - top half
fulham - away - was in a relegation scrap
sheffield utd - away - was in a relegation scrap
everton - away - top half
liverpool - away - top half
west ham - home - was in a relegation scrap

Dont worry bout the gunners...up to a month ago arsenal had won the title
sooner than utd and done better in europe....all while moving house and starting nearly every match with the youngest premiership side.

Im not worried, wenger said we'd go unbeaten, everyone laughed. We did.
Wenger says we will dominate england. I do believe him. Seen great football by the gunners this year.

fulham away, everton away, villa away and sheff utd at home arsenal were beyond poor in this season. All other they easily put in championship winning performances.

It will be allright. im not worried about carlos and alex claming this utd team will go on to dominate.


agree with a lot of that (some bits no, but you know Arsenal better than me)

I'd be interested to see where Fergie said he would dominate though

I do think Arsenal will come good next year and i've said it before

Van Persie and Henry have been big losses, ironically RVP got injured scoring against United, in a game where he showed his class (it's easy to forget how good he was before the injury)

Arsenal also suffered in the same way that Chelsea and United suffered in Europe later on

Arsenals two cup victories over Liverpool set them up for a very busy schedule (Bolton and Blackburn draws cost them energy wise) and after a few draws they were tired

Spurs and Blackburn also got tired from their UEFA runs

Liverpool, out of the big 4, were the only team relatively fresh in the last few months, but in fairness, they qualified for a Champions Legaue final, a very good achievment if they win it again

Liverpool will still finish the season at leats 12 points worse than they were last year, but the European Cup will wipe out any talk of that

Next year Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and United should be a lot closer, as should the next tier

[homer jay]

Liverpool will still finish the season at leats 12 points worse than they were last year, but the European Cup will wipe out any talk of that

i don't want to turn this into a liverpool thing, but i might digress and say no, i disagree with this. if they win the CL it'll have bought benitez some more time, but i don't think liverpool supporters (certainly me for starters) are as excited about this final as they were in 2005. the league is the priority, and the fact that the pool have less points this season particularly annoys me.

[STEVIEG]

arsenal lost 20pts with draws alone. And thats plain wrong.
and lost 15pts to relegation teams. Plain wrong.

.

True

United last season was similar in some respects

they dropped a massive 16 points out of 18 or something against Boro, Blackburn and Man City

[RonnyB]

i don't want to turn this into a liverpool thing, but i might digress and say no, i disagree with this. if they win the CL it'll have bought benitez some more time, but i don't think liverpool supporters (certainly me for starters) are as excited about this final as they were in 2005. the league is the priority, and the fact that the pool have less points this season particularly annoys me.

Fair play for admitting it.

Liverpool's awful away record cost them big time this season. At hom eI heard over the weekend their record is only 2nd to United's.

Another thing is their record against the other sides in the top 4. 4 defeats of of 6 will hinder any title challenge when your rivals are gaining points at your expense.

[KolaKubes]

1) It was quite clear to me on Sunday why Arsenal are a long way off Chelsea in second let alone Utd.

2) Using the two games against Utd as "proof" Arsenal are the better side is laughable. By that logic, Utd under Atkinson were right up there with the Liverpool sides of the period that were winning trophies. It is the smallest of small time arguments. I don't hear Everton fans saying they're better than Liverpool just because they hammered them 3-0 earlier in the season.

3) If Mourinho got one point correct this year, it was that Wenger's position of being able to be in a perennial state of "transition" must be lovely for him. Here's the reality, the average age of Arsenal's squad is just one year less than Utd's. This despite the presence of veterans like VDS, Giggs, Scholes, Solskjaer and Neville. What age are Rooney and Ronaldo again?

4) I thought this particular Utd side did remarkably well in Europe this year. To succeed in Europe (whatever the formula) requires a lot of luck and a mature side with key players at the height of their game. We are still bedding in "spine" players like Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Rooney and Ronaldo who have fuck all experience at this level. We still only went out thanks to missing most of our back four over the tie with Milan.

5) I have some sympathy with Arsenal over injuries to players like Gallas and Henry this year, it made it hard for them go get really going but we'll wait with some interest to see if they can affect a 20 point turnaround on both Utd and Chelsea next year. Henry is a fading force unless he can get clear of his injury problems, Arsenal haven't yet shown any signs of replacing the 50 odd goals and assists he's provided for 4 or 5 seasons.

6) Let's hope that Liverpool and Arsenal can get their act together next year, it would be interesting to have a three or four horse race, at least for a period. I won't be holding my breath though.

[STEVIEG]

i don't want to turn this into a liverpool thing, but i might digress and say no, i disagree with this. if they win the CL it'll have bought benitez some more time, but i don't think liverpool supporters (certainly me for starters) are as excited about this final as they were in 2005. the league is the priority, and the fact that the pool have less points this season particularly annoys me.

Well in fairness you and Philby are clued up and will admit that

Some of the fly-by-nights won't but the manager, the players and even Parry have also admitted it

Post Istanbul Liverpool progressed majorly in the league and got a good total last year

82 points I think

Win or lose in Athens next year will be very important domestically for Rafa

[KolaKubes]

Win or lose in Athens next year will be very important domestically for Rafa

The harsh reality of "concentrating on the cups" is that if you don't go and win the thing, its remembered as a flop of a season.

I notice Arsenal don't seem to be getting much credit a year on for making the final in Paris last year yet they came within a sniff of beating a much-vaunted Barcelona team.

It's high stakes stuff.

[homer jay]

Well in fairness you and Philby are clued up and will admit that

Some of the fly-by-nights won't but the manager, the players and even Parry have also admitted it

Post Istanbul Liverpool progressed majorly in the league and got a good total last year

82 points I think

Win or lose in Athens next year will be very important domestically for Rafa

yeah 82 points was a very good total, but they overachieved a small bit imo. i couldn't see them getting to that total again this season. they had a few one nil wins last season where they weren't playing well, especially during the long runs of wins.

next year will be a big season for benitez if he gets who he wants in the transfer window. the team must show a significant improvement in the league, a repeat of 04/05 season and rafa will be feeling the heat. i'd be happy if they went out at the first stage of each cup, if it meant they'd put in a serious challenge for the title. at this stage i can't see it happening. but summer transfers are important for liverpool this season.

[KolaKubes]

yeah 82 points was a very good total, but they overachieved a small bit imo. i couldn't see them getting to that total again this season. they had a few one nil wins last season where they weren't playing well, especially during the long runs of wins.

next year will be a big season for benitez if he gets who he wants in the transfer window. the team must show a significant improvement in the league, a repeat of 04/05 season and rafa will be feeling the heat. i'd be happy if they went out at the first stage of each cup, if it meant they'd put in a serious challenge for the title. at this stage i can't see it happening. but summer transfers are important for liverpool this season.

Good to see someone who's aware of the traditions of Liverpool football club. You're not supposed to be a cup side.

[xvis]

yes they truly are....chelsea crumbled under injuries and board room unsettlement. arsenal werent even a challenge with the big move and the no availible funds and as for liverpool? they still in the course of re-building.

this season as a whole was the best in a long while. we had 3 tables. the top two. the next two and the rest.

with spurs, villa, possibly newcastle and "mark my words" sunderland, making a leap ahead of the rest we could very well see the best premiership season next year. i think the pool will be better, chelsea will be better, arsenal will be better and the teams i mentioned above.

Next year i think the top two will deffo become the top 4 followed closely behind by the next 4.

Hopefully the league is coming back to having the top of the table being real challengers for the 4th champions league position and the bottom half being for the relegation contenders.

I hope utd build on what they have done this season. I take nothing away from them. But personally i think they capitalised on others failings as opposed to dominating their way to the title. They won it fair and square, no one else was good enough.

Next season there is no excuses.....none for jose, none for wenger, none for benitez.....and now that alex has won the league with his self proclaimed "rebuilt" team there will be no excuses.

a good tally of points despite 4 losses.

stevies answer to arsenals unbelievable unbeaten season is, well ye never bate utd that season. Arsenal beat utd twice this season. Once with ease, once by fluke.

arsenal lost 20pts with draws alone. And thats plain wrong.
and lost 15pts to relegation teams. Plain wrong.

Look at our losses in the season.
Man city - away - was in a relegation scrap
west ham - away - was in a relegation scrap
bolton - away - top half
fulham - away - was in a relegation scrap
sheffield utd - away - was in a relegation scrap
everton - away - top half
liverpool - away - top half
west ham - home - was in a relegation scrap

Dont worry bout the gunners...up to a month ago arsenal had won the title
sooner than utd and done better in europe....all while moving house and starting nearly every match with the youngest premiership side.

Im not worried, wenger said we'd go unbeaten, everyone laughed. We did.
Wenger says we will dominate england. I do believe him. Seen great football by the gunners this year.

fulham away, everton away, villa away and sheff utd at home arsenal were beyond poor in this season. All other they easily put in championship winning performances.

It will be allright. im not worried about carlos and alex claming this utd team will go on to dominate.

Unless Arsenal and Liverpool start fast they'll be blown away again in the first months of next season.
What left Arsenal down this year were the midfield and attacking replacements, Rosicky and Baptista didn't make enough of an impact, ..and I don't think Adebayor is good enough.
What is most telling about Arsenal's season is that Fabregas interview linked in the Arsenal thread, ..Arsenal look to be at exactly the same point as when Tony Adams had to confront Bergkamp around about '97 and the whole focus of Arsenal was channeled, ..Arsenal need another Tony Adams or they'll be swept aside again next year.


The title race between United and Chelsea was quite brutal this year and perhaps both sides may want to stay 'in the pack' a bit more this Autumn to conserve energies for Europe; ...if they do subconsciously allow this to happen, then Arsenal and Liverpool will be in the hunt and may play themselves into the title race.


I think other sides will progress, ..particularly Villa; they have had so many draws at home and away, ...if they convert 4 homes and 4 away draws from this season, not unlikely as they have done the hard bit of avoiding defeat, ..it takes them to todays fifth.

[STEVIEG]

I think other sides will progress, ..particularly Villa; they have had so many draws at home and away, ...if they convert 4 homes and 4 away draws from this season, not unlikely as they have done the hard bit of avoiding defeat, ..it takes them to todays fifth.

add in the fact that he still really hasn't had much time to stamp HIS authority on the team and transfers and you could be right

They are probaly the form team in the league at the moment

[Roman Abramovich]

1) It was quite clear to me on Sunday why Arsenal are a long way off Chelsea in second let alone Utd.
.

gwan

[ho chi feen]

not paticulary.....not considering the greatness of the 99 team. 4 titles. not even close to getting to a major final. Its slowley turning in to another england 66.


I don't know about you, I'd call losing on away goals after leading the tie three times against Leverkusen in a season where we finished below Liverpool in the league close.

How many Champions leagues/European Cups have Arsenal won, Naff? How many European trophies have they won under Wenger, Naff? Where were they every year barring last year and the year they beat a side who were relegated from La Liga when the last 8 of the CL got underway, Naff? Why is that they seem happy to play triangular passes in the centre circle and to go trophyless again this year, Naff? How come United sold Ruud and have had their most successful season in 8 years, Naff?

[Roman Abramovich]

I don't know about you, I'd call losing on away goals after leading the tie three times against Leverkusen in a season where we finished below Liverpool in the league close.

How many Champions leagues/European Cups have Arsenal won, Naff? How many European trophies have they won under Wenger, Naff? Where were they every year barring last year and the year they beat a side who were relegated from La Liga when the last 8 of the CL got underway, Naff? Why is that they seem happy to play triangular passes in the centre circle and to go trophyless again this year, Naff? How come United sold Ruud and have had their most successful season in 8 years, Naff?

see yet another example of how mancs answer their own teams frailties.
do they teach it to you with every new kit thats brought out?

[ho chi feen]

arsenal lost 20pts with draws alone. And thats plain wrong.
and lost 15pts to relegation teams. Plain wrong.


Sure ye 'lost' 23 points with draws in your unbeaten season.

*edit* Did I misread your post? It's hard to follow. I read it to mean this year, but If you were referring to 2003/4, apologies but it's not clear.

[ho chi feen]

see yet another example of how mancs answer their own teams frailties.
do they teach it to you with every new kit thats brought out?

I'm not a manc, and I'm only addressing what I read.

Quit dodging.

[Roman Abramovich]

I'm not a manc, and I'm only addressing what I read.

Quit dodging.

im not the guy doging.
utd fans always address problems at their clubs with other peoples problems.

utd failed in europe this season. "again".
Utd have the largest capacity in england, the largest income, the 2nd largest in the world and they have used all that financial muscle down through the years to continually sign top players, for top money. The also had "the" greatest, bar ajax i suppose bunch of young players come in and form a major part of their success down through the years......and year in year out come acropper in europe. Benitez with a half capable squad has had more european cup final appearances and equal trophies in 3 years that fergie has had in his whole utd career. And thats a failure of epic proportions. Now that arsene has finally got the stadium to generate revenew to compete with the rest of the big boys their will be no excuses if he doesnt. Sure the club is saddled with debt but no more excuses.......

Why has utd continually failed in europe despite being one of the biggest over the last 15 years?

nothing to do with arsenal, so dont bring them into it.
this thread was about ruud........stevie generally answered it with arsenal bashing....

selling ruud was a bad idea. something proved in europe yet again.
maybe even the fa cup. You dont take out one of your all time greatest goal scorers and think its been 100% successful.

They didnt win the league cup, they didnt win the european cup, and as of yet hasnt won the fa cup.

great league title. totally unexpected. life in the old dog yet.

[STEVIEG]

selling ruud was a bad idea. something proved in europe yet again.
maybe even the fa cup. You dont take out one of your all time greatest goal scorers and think its been 100% successful.

They didnt win the league cup, they didnt win the european cup, and as of yet hasnt won the fa cup.

great league title. totally unexpected. life in the old dog yet.



The manager and Uniteds best player this season, Ronaldo, plus nearly everyone else has pointed to dressing room harmony as one of the reasons why United have done well and WON the league

Ronaldo in particular looks to be benifiting

Ruud wasn't part of the team that won the Carling Cup last year, a small consolation prize for a crap season where United, with Ruud, didn't even qualify past the group stages of the Champions league and where United, with Ruud, lost an FA Cup game to Liverpool and came only 2nd in the league

UNITED ARE BETTER THIS SEASON WITHOUT RUUD

It's a fact and one which some of us suggested might happen

It's a fact!!!!!

EUROPE-Much better
THE LEAGUE-Much Better
FA CUP-Much Better

[KolaKubes]

gwan

Over elaborate, arrogant, witless, pointless football. So many times during the game I was left saying "what the fuck are you doing?" Fellas passing when they should shoot, dribbling with the ball when they should pass, phunting the ball out of play when they should have played their way out of trouble, playing their way out of play when they should have phunted it.

I'm not sure is it poor coaching or just an extremely dumb bunch of players.

It was like watching a whole team doing an impression of Ronaldo in the San Siro.

It's May in year 2 of your "transition". You'd want to be careful. Liverpool had a similar transition period.

They called it the 90s.

[KolaKubes]

Oh, and Utd have been transformed as an attacking force without Ruud in the line-up.

[xvis]

im not the guy doging.
utd fans always address problems at their clubs with other peoples problems.

utd failed in europe this season. "again".
Utd have the largest capacity in england, the largest income, the 2nd largest in the world and they have used all that financial muscle down through the years to continually sign top players, for top money. The also had "the" greatest, bar ajax i suppose bunch of young players come in and form a major part of their success down through the years......and year in year out come acropper in europe. Benitez with a half capable squad has had more european cup final appearances and equal trophies in 3 years that fergie has had in his whole utd career. And thats a failure of epic proportions. Now that arsene has finally got the stadium to generate revenew to compete with the rest of the big boys their will be no excuses if he doesnt. Sure the club is saddled with debt but no more excuses.......

Why has utd continually failed in europe despite being one of the biggest over the last 15 years?

nothing to do with arsenal, so dont bring them into it.
this thread was about ruud........stevie generally answered it with arsenal bashing....

selling ruud was a bad idea. something proved in europe yet again.
maybe even the fa cup. You dont take out one of your all time greatest goal scorers and think its been 100% successful.

They didnt win the league cup, they didnt win the european cup, and as of yet hasnt won the fa cup.

great league title. totally unexpected. life in the old dog yet.


Failed is the wrong word. ...You haven't failed when Fergie has been dancing on the pitch with the big-eared trophy.


I would use the word 'underachieved', ...winners once, and semi-finalists 3 times.


I would put the underachievement down to combinations of ....pre-Ruud not having a truly world class striker - barring one seaon of Cole-Yorke producing 'the perfect storm', ...top quality of opposition in the mid-to-late-nineties, ...the illegal assimilated players rule, ...the European ban legacy ...flat midfield formations against Europes elite/Fergies tactics/wingers.

..dodgy linesmen.



but hey, ..it could be worse

we could be Arsenal!

[MonTheHoops]

Failed is the wrong word. ...You haven't failed when Fergie has been dancing on the pitch with the big-eared trophy.



When exactly was that?

[xvis]

When exactly was that?


It was in 1999 in Barcelona.



Why has utd continually failed in europe despite being one of the biggest over the last 15 years?

[MonTheHoops]

It doesn't strengthen your point though. One in fifteen isn't exactly anything to write home about.

[STEVIEG]

Thought Fergie won it in 1999

Anyway,sticking to the point


United's goal stats with and without Ruud in the league

2006/7 - 83 (2 games left) CHAMPIONS
2005/6 - 72 RUUD
2004/5 - 58 RUUD
2003/4 - 64 RUUD CHAMPIONS
2002/3 - 74 RUUD
2001/2 - 87 RUUD
2000/1 - 79 CHAMPIONS
1999/0 - 97 CHAMPIONS
1998/9 - 80 CHAMPIONS

he was excellent in Europe and domestically but the team play better as a team without him

[STEVIEG]

It doesn't strengthen your point though. One in fifteen isn't exactly anything to write home about.

Hence the term "underachievment".................... .

Now, back to the point

[KolaKubes]

Thought Fergie won it in 1999

Anyway,sticking to the point


United's goal stats with and without Ruud in the league

2006/7 - 83 (2 games left) CHAMPIONS
2005/6 - 72 RUUD
2004/5 - 58 RUUD
2003/4 - 64 RUUD CHAMPIONS
2002/3 - 74 RUUD
2001/2 - 87 RUUD
2000/1 - 79 CHAMPIONS
1999/0 - 97 CHAMPIONS
1998/9 - 80 CHAMPIONS

he was excellent in Europe and domestically but the team play better as a team without him

97 goals in 99/00, Jesus Christ.

[STEVIEG]

97 goals in 99/00, Jesus Christ.

Yup

Now that was a year where United really blew it in Europe

Madrid were there for the taking away


Like so many European Champions, in fact them all since Milan years ago, they blew it though

[KolaKubes]

Yup

Now that was a year where United really blew it in Europe

Madrid were there for the taking away


Like so many European Champions, in fact them all since Milan years ago, they blew it though

I think Ferguson made a mistake in not breaking up that team from 1999. He should have sniffed the air for the players who weren't interested in pushing on from there and cashed in on one or two. Butt, Cole, Sheringham.

He also made a complete balls of things with replacing Schmeichel and Stam.

There were some fabulous teams around Europe at the time, we just didn't have the wriggle room to not have strengthened considerably that summer.

[jimmy magee]

Limited player, marvellous in some respects, dodge in others...Utd better off without him

[Roman Abramovich]

he was excellent in Europe and domestically but the team play better as a team without him

a point i always made. ho-chi can verify this
but still would have been utds top scorer this year.

[STEVIEG]

but still would have been utds top scorer this year.

I dunno impossible to say

It was said United getting rid of a 20 goal man was madness

There is no doubt in my mind that Saha would have been the third United 20 plus man had he been fit

They are better and more potent as a team

I like Ruud and think he still has it it but his body language and reaction to getting left out of a second rate comp was poor form for me

He is still hungry at Real Madrid and i thought it was stupid out of Van Basten dropping him for Holand but sometimes managers need to take hard decisions

[ho chi feen]

a point i always made. ho-chi can verify this.

You did. I've never been as keen to blame Ruud for that, even now- the particular set of circumstances that led to us weren't his doing, and they weren't arrived at the time he was signed- they were stumbled upon. We played some great stuff in 2002/3, but after that, the link between the more attack midfielders and the forward line proved problematic. Why was this? In my view it's primarily down to Solskjaer's injury and our failure to land Ronaldinho. It made the 4-2-3-1 we were using unworkable. The other formulations of 4-5-1 we were forced into using were both poorly conceived and poorly executed. 4-4-2 wasn't an option, as Forlán was the only other striker at the club. Saha came in, started brilliantly (and worked well with Ruud) but was plagued by injuries. For much of the time, we had to play 4-5-1 simply because we had nobody else to play up front. I don't buy your line at all about Ruud suddenly becoming an all-round player, because for much of his career at United, he had to it all- the midfield were hesitant in breaking, so he became the focal point of all attacks: Play the ball up to Ruud, he holds it and plays it back to someone breaking forward; ball gets played out wide, and then into the area; Ruud scores. How many times did we this happen? The problem was, we really no plan B. Not Ruud's fault either.

It was a change of system last season that made Ruud dispensible more than anything he actually did or did not do himself (unlike in Beckham's case were it was both of the above). Ruud is still Ruud, we can all see that. Yeah, his attitude began to stink, but we can only speculate abouty went on behind the scenes. The simple fact is though, when we changed things back to a 4-4-2, Saha and Rooney worked much better in tandem than either of them did with Ruud. The goals began to flow, not just for them, but for the team as a whole; the main reason being movement, which Ruud, for all his qualities, doesn't give you a lot of. And even with Saha falling victim to injuries again this season, after a blistering start, the reinvigoration of our entire attacking approach (not to mention the great strides made by Ronaldo) allowed us to switch to a similar (but even more attack-minded) sort of fluid 4-3-2-1 as in 2003, with devastating movement and constant interchanging- borne of necessity in my view, as 4-4-2 had been working very well until Saha got injured, and probably would have remained Ferguson's preferred domestic formation. But no matter which way you look at, I don't see that things would have worked as well as they have done with Ruud still there.

[RonnyB]

selling ruud was a bad idea. something proved in europe yet again.
maybe even the fa cup. You dont take out one of your all time greatest goal scorers and think its been 100% successful.


This is the same Ruud van Nistelrooy who scored once in 6 group games in last seasons competition. Saha scored more against Celtic in the 1st game this season.

You've pointed out selling RVN was one of the main reasons United failed in Europe this season. The defence being the other. I'm gonna be a bit controversial here but I dont see a semi-final exit of this years competition as failure when last season with more or less the same squad they managed to finish bottom of their group, winning 1 game & scoring 3 goals, and losing to great teams like Lille & Benfica. This season United have made progress in Europe & personally I dont think Ruud's absence was the difference between victory & defeat against Milan.

As for the defence well you have a point but its worth remembering Ferdinand & Neville missed both legs, Evra was clearly mot match fit in the home leg, likewise Vidic in the San Siro.

I think most United fans would point to a lack of a midfielder who can break up tackles & mix it with Gattuso would be one of the main downfalls in Europe for United this season. Barton would have been perfect alongside Carrick in the San Siro (no point playing Scholes who couldnt risk tackling from the outset IMO). Even Hargreaves who I'm told had an excellent 1st leg for Bayern against Milan would have been a better option but 3 sitting midfielders in Milan would have been too cautious & Barton is good going forward.

[Roman Abramovich]

its amazing how fickle man utd fans are........suddenly theres an anti ruud feeling amoung ye all. yet this was the guy ye backed to the hilt and even claimed he was better than henry.

i suppose at least yere consistant. ye done it to the best left back in the world heinze too.

[RonnyB]

its amazing how fickle man utd fans are........suddenly theres an anti ruud feeling amoung ye all. yet this was the guy ye backed to the hilt and even claimed he was better than henry.

i suppose at least yere consistant. ye done it to the best left back in the world heinze too.

Looking back over past posts from United fans before I joined the board the seemed to back the mangers decision to sell. Thats agreeing with his decision before the consequences of his departure were known.

You go on about how Ruud is United best ever scorer in Europe. Yes he is but that was a real help last season with 3 goals in 6 games wasn't it? This year they scored that in their 1st game against Celtic playing a much better brand of football in the process with Saha being key to that.

As for Heinze he was never the best LB in the Prem never mind the world. Whoever said he was must be mad.

[Roman Abramovich]

Looking back over past posts from United fans before I joined the board the seemed to back the mangers decision to sell. Thats agreeing with his decision before the consequences of his departure were known.

You go on about how Ruud is United best ever scorer in Europe. Yes he is but that was a real help last season with 3 goals in 6 games wasn't it? This year they scored that in their 1st game against Celtic playing a much better brand of football in the process with Saha being key to that.

As for Heinze he was never the best LB in the Prem never mind the world. Whoever said he was must be mad.

are you fat tom in a new guise?

[RonnyB]

are you fat tom in a new guise?

nope.

[STEVIEG]

its amazing how fickle man utd fans are........suddenly theres an anti ruud feeling amoung ye all. yet this was the guy ye backed to the hilt and even claimed he was better than henry.

i suppose at least yere consistant. ye done it to the best left back in the world heinze too.

Where is the anti-Ruud feeling?

Look at my first last Sunday in this thread

Quote

"I'm gonna give Ruud major respect for loads of goals this season

Still popular at Old Trafford

Fergie was proved right in getting rid of him but i'm delighted he has done well"

For a guy who was giving out about for years here it's a bit rich

[Roman Abramovich]

Where is the anti-Ruud feeling?

Look at my first last Sunday in this thread

Quote

"I'm gonna give Ruud major respect for loads of goals this season

Still popular at Old Trafford

Fergie was proved right in getting rid of him but i'm delighted he has done well"

For a guy who was giving out about for years here it's a bit rich

in his final year ruud played brilliant for utd. a real team player. and fergie shafted him like he always shafts players.

[STEVIEG]

in his final year ruud played brilliant for utd. a real team player. and fergie shafted him like he always shafts players.

Team player????

Crying over the Carling Cup when he was left out for the player who put them there

Looking sluggish and disinterested at Anfield as United lost to Liverpool in the FA Cup (a key game)

A team player, but one who was overtaken as a team player by Saha, a quicker player with more of an awareness of those around him (pity bout the injuries)

Ruud >>>> Saha

Saha is a better team player

United are better without Ruud

Only the most bitter would argue it

He needed a new challenge too

By nearly all accounts he was fighting with Ronaldo and others and was causing dressing room unrest

A massive factor

United are better without him

IT IS A FACT

[RonnyB]

in his final year ruud played brilliant for utd. a real team player. and fergie shafted him like he always shafts players.

So how come the team seemed to play better in the 2nd half of the season with Saha in for Ruud?

Also in the big games last season against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and the Champions League he scored a grand total of 1 goal. Thats what he made his name & rep on and he didnt do it.

As of now Fergie has been vindicated in selling van Nistelrooy. You said it was an error and so far are being proved wrong.

[STEVIEG]

fergie shafted him like he always shafts players.

Like Giggs
Scholes
Ole
Bruce
Robson
Brown
Rio
Ronaldo
Gary Neville
Eric Cantona etc etc etc



He was right to get rid of Keane (the Corkman admits it)

Beckham too (the name Ronaldo mean anything????)

and Ruud (Champions)

Stam was a mistake, but no-one is bigger than the team

[Roman Abramovich]

So how come the team seemed to play better in the 2nd half of the season with Saha in for Ruud?

Also in the big games last season against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and the Champions League he scored a grand total of 1 goal. Thats what he made his name & rep on and he didnt do it.

As of now Fergie has been vindicated in selling van Nistelrooy. You said it was an error and so far are being proved wrong.
by one title? failure in league cup, failure in europe and possible failure in fa cup?
wenger should sell henry so and arsenal will clinch the title.
fair dues.

[Roman Abramovich]

Team player????

Crying over the Carling Cup when he was left out for the player who put them there

Looking sluggish and disinterested at Anfield as United lost to Liverpool in the FA Cup (a key game)

A team player, but one who was overtaken as a team player by Saha, a quicker player with more of an awareness of those around him (pity bout the injuries)

Ruud >>>> Saha

Saha is a better team player

United are better without Ruud

Only the most bitter would argue it

He needed a new challenge too

By nearly all accounts he was fighting with Ronaldo and others and was causing dressing room unrest

A massive factor

United are better without him

IT IS A FACT

home come utd fans were dispuuting this two seasons ago when i was saying it yet now they are championing it.
ye havent a clue. yere bum slappers.

lets have a game of follow the leader stevie. ok kola. ok xvis.

[POL]

hehehe :lol!:

[STEVIEG]

home come utd fans were dispuuting this two seasons ago when i was saying it yet now they are championing it.
ye havent a clue. yere bum slappers.

lets have a game of follow the leader stevie. ok kola. ok xvis.

For a guy who spent years on here saying Ruud was shit that's rich

A lot of people speculated thta United could do better as a team without Ruud

You are being owned big time here

The facts speak for themselves

What's the big obsession with united about anyway?

[RonnyB]

by one title? failure in league cup, failure in europe and possible failure in fa cup?
wenger should sell henry so and arsenal will clinch the title.
fair dues.

FFS like. How often do teams win 3 or 4 trophies in a season?

Another thing United won the league cup when a certain Dutchman sulked on the sidelines.

United failed woefully during the 2nd half of 2005 when according to you Ruud was playing his best stuff.

Semi Finals of the European Cup was as good as United achieved with Ruud.

Ya maybe United will fail in the FA Cup Final. However I seem to remember Ruud having a stinker in the '05 final against Arsenal when his 2 supporting players Rooney & Ronaldo were tearing Arsenal a new one.

Your arguement doesnt add up.

EDIT: Also failure in a cup tie at Anfield led to Ruud being dropped. That day not only was he brutal he didnt try a leg.

[Langer Dan]

in his final year ruud played brilliant for utd. a real team player. and fergie shafted him like he always shafts players.

one word for ya.

Champions.

[RonnyB]

Have to say I agree with you.

Ferguson is damaging the club with this move. RVN is oine of the rare breed of european strikers that is a guarenteed 20 goals a season man. Selling him when United are playing catch up with Chelsea is Lunacy.

For the record I agree with Ruud on Ronaldo hes been an overpriced failure who far too often has no end prduct.

Selling Ruud is a mistake that along with shufting Keane out the door will cost Ferguson dearly.



one word for ya.

Champions.

Spot the contradiction.

[Langer Dan]

Spot the contradiction.

I doubt anyone could have predicted Uniteds resurgence this season.

I was wrong, dead wrong, Big whoop.

[RonnyB]

I doubt anyone could have predicted Uniteds resurgence this season.

I was wrong, dead wrong, Big whoop.

Yes you are but I doubt you'd have admitted it if you werent shown up on it.

Also gloating to someone with whose opinions you agreed with is a major u-turn.

[Langer Dan]

Yes you are but I doubt you'd have admitted it if you werent shown up on it.

Also gloating to someone with whose opinions you agreed with is a major u-turn.

not gloating at all, just saying Ferguson winning the league and United's form this season has more than justified Ferguson selling Ruud.

If you want to be an asshole about it thats your lookout.

[homer jay]

not gloating at all, just saying Ferguson winning the league and United's form this season has more than justified Ferguson selling Ruud.

If you want to be an asshole about it thats your lookout.

of course you were gloating ffs.

can you not go 5 minutes in here without embarrassing yourself?

[Langer Dan]

of course you were gloating ffs.

can you not go 5 minutes in here without embarrassing yourself?

you can go fuck yourself an all.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Leave him off HJ, it's like watching a lad kicking another while he's unconscious on the ground.
You win, by a mile.

[Langer Dan]

retards anonymous, here we go.


Enjoy watchingChelsea giving the champions a guard of honour tonight,

ye sad bitter gimps.

[POL]

Leave him off HJ, it's like watching a lad kicking another while he's unconscious on the ground.
You win, by a mile.thats the jocks style alright, beating a lad to death on the ground

[homer jay]

heh heh

[Edmund Blackwater]

retards anonymous, here we go.


Enjoy watchingChelsea giving the champions a guard of honour tonight,

ye sad bitter gimps.
still twitchin?

[Langer Dan]

still twitchin?

yawn.

you're tiresome.

[Roman Abramovich]

one word for ya.

Champions.

thats 5 words

[xvis]

by one title? failure in league cup, failure in europe and possible failure in fa cup?
wenger should sell henry so and arsenal will clinch the title.
fair dues.

failure?!!!!

is you mad?


United are on the verge of The Double, ..together with being European Cup semi-finalists, ..and SUCCESSFULLY escaped the Carling Cup ASAP.


....although United were also very close to possible failure in the league, it was only Chelsea and Arsenal's failure to win every match which allowed United to sneak it with two games to spare.


***

..anyway, Ruud.


I don't care much for stats, but I know you do...

Season...Starts...Go als...Assists
01/02.....29.....23.... .15
02/03.....33.....25.... .11
03/04.....31.....20.... .08
04/05.....16......6.... .02
05/06.....28.....21.... .07

Ruud had a lot more assists in his first two seasons than in his last. ..there was no remarkable transformation in his team play last year.



For those who compare goals for goals, ..United had no Keane in the CL last autumn and a total ramshackle midfield all year, ..as they had for the last two seasons of Ruud.

This season the attacking side has been boosted by Evra ar left back, Carrick in the middle, and a maturing Ronaldo, ..so there are mitigating circumstances in all the direct goals comparisions.


But even allowing for all of those mitigating circumstances it should be clear to everyone that United would still be a better attacking side without Ruud.
Ferguson evaluated a year ago on what needed to be done and a whole attacking approach is being formulated.

[Langer Dan]

thats 5 words

Christ almighty. Do you understand the concept of a fullstop?

[Roman Abramovich]

Ruud had a lot more assists in his first two seasons than in his last. ..there was no remarkable transformation in his team play last year.
.

yeah your right.....

congrats

[STEVIEG]

bump......
still stands......

one swallow doesnt make a spring stevie. 3 full seasons of no league title. heading for 9 full seasons without even a european final.

fergie should go. right now hell go on a high.

Heh heh heh!

[STEVIEG]

fergie should have went when he sold beckham.....now he should be sacked.

The vision

[Lamps]

Stevie has been rattled by this.

:lol!:

[STEVIEG]

Stevie has been rattled by this.

:lol!:

Naff has been quite all week

There is always great bumping to be done round here

[Lamps]

Naff has been quite all week

There is always great bumping to be done round here

In fairness Steve, it was a huge find, you've always prided yourself on standing by your team. I expect it from Kola and Fitzy but was suprised to see you at it

[STEVIEG]

In fairness Steve, it was a huge find, you've always prided yourself on standing by your team. I expect it from Kola and Fitzy but was suprised to see you at it

I stood by him

I said that at the end of the season if there was someone better (who???) maybe they could him but, i pointed out that some wheeling and dealing could help United get back up there

Bump the Carrick threads from around then if you wish, you will see the context of my argument

United were 2 or 3 players away from the title

Which they won with one addition

[KolaKubes]

In fairness Steve, it was a huge find, you've always prided yourself on standing by your team. I expect it from Kola and Fitzy but was suprised to see you at it

Oi, I have only ever made qualified and mild digs at Saffy over the years.

Shouldn't you be off home to kick around a rugby ball with Doddy for the evening as part of your "recovery" sell out?

[Langer Dan]

Lamps, this attempt at regaining lost ground is going badly :)

[Langer Dan]

Naff has been quite all week



I expect hes been keeping a low profile in respect of some travelling remarks:p

[Roman Abramovich]

im quiet because im lying in bed dying sick and unable to move.
but sure think what you want.
its why i didnt make ball sunday.

[Langer Dan]

That sucks, flu?

[STEVIEG]

im quiet because im lying in bed dying sick and unable to move.
but sure think what you want.
its why i didnt make ball sunday.

Get well soon

I had the honour of playing for the mighty Notavan last Sunday

what happened with the travellers?

Or do i need to know?