recognise any of these players? (rugby fans)

[liam2me]

A Finn (Dolphin); R Lane (UCC), J Hearty (Blackrock), G Telford (Dungannon), P McKenzie (Loughborough University); G Steenson (QUB), T O'Leary (Cork Con); J Wickham (Clontarf), D Fogarty (Cork Con), D Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins); D Gannon (Blackrock, capt), S O'Connor (Cork Con); B O'Connor (Cork Con), J Heaslip (Dumpland University), D O'Brien (Old Belvedere).

these are the U-21 WC finalists, TOL and Heaslip are the only 2 i recognise. why are these not household names by now? compared to luke mcallister or piri weepu (who was a sub) for thier AB counterparts

not good enough, IRFU needs to get its head out of its ass

[MonTheHoops]

There's very few of the Irish U-16s and U-18 sides who did so well on the European stage and at World stage playing for decent clubs now.

Wasn't Ronnie O' Brien was the next Zidane. Eamonn Zayed was the new Liam Brady. If 2 or 3 make the grade then the youth system has been worth it.

[jungle]

There's very few of the Irish U-16s and U-18 sides who did so well on the European stage and at World stage playing for decent clubs now.

Wasn't Ronnie O' Brien was the next Zidane. Eamonn Zayed was the new Liam Brady. If 2 or 3 make the grade then the youth system has been worth it.
With shorter careers and more injuries, you'd expect a few more of the rugby U-21s to make it through to the national team.

I wouldn't be unduly worried about them not being household names. How many of those guys are even playing rugby at provincial level?

[up.the.kingdom]

A Finn (Dolphin); R Lane (UCC), J Hearty (Blackrock), G Telford (Dungannon), P McKenzie (Loughborough University); G Steenson (QUB), T O'Leary (Cork Con); J Wickham (Clontarf), D Fogarty (Cork Con), D Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins); D Gannon (Blackrock, capt), S O'Connor (Cork Con); B O'Connor (Cork Con), J Heaslip (Dumpland University), D O'Brien (Old Belvedere).





Tomas O'Leary and Denis Fogarty are both on Munster contracts with 12 and 11 appearances respectively. Tomas is an up and coming scrum half and my moneys on him being a regular on the Irish team from next year. Fogarty is an improving hooker who Im sure will also be a household name as he matures (front row forwards generally dont come into their prime till later on in their careers)
Theres a couple of other class players in that group but they dont represent munster so I couldnt be arsed....

[Rebel Yell]

Good post....I remember Brent pope discussing this earlier in the season....the transition phase from Under age to senior in this country is very poorly handled.....somethin g like 14 or 15 of that NZ 22 squad are now plaing Super 12 level, AT LEAST!!!

The IRFU has to look at this and scratch their heads, instead of their balls!!!! A proper academy structure for young players has to be implemented. Players like that young Paul Marshall for the current U-21's...I'd like to see what kind of development plan exists for him??? half the IRFU have probably never heard of him !!!

[Eoin]

Good post....I remember Brent pope discussing this earlier in the season....the transition phase from Under age to senior in this country is very poorly handled.....somethin g like 14 or 15 of that NZ 22 squad are now plaing Super 12 level, AT LEAST!!!

The IRFU has to look at this and scratch their heads, instead of their balls!!!! A proper academy structure for young players has to be implemented. Players like that young Paul Marshall for the current U-21's...I'd like to see what kind of development plan exists for him??? half the IRFU have probably never heard of him !!!

Apparantly the drop-off rate of players in the senior cups progressing to senior provincial level is extremely high. It was mentioned in the paper lsat week.

It is worrying alright, but in fairness, comparing us to NZ is not really fair. The sport is number 1 there, it's 4th here.

I do agree that the IRFU need to sort it out though. There's definitely loads of room for improvement.

[Teknique]

Most of us would rarely see/read/think about AIL to be honest so if we dont see them playing for 1 of the provinces then they're forgotten

Really with only 4 teams that are really worth playing for the opportunities are limited , it may be worth scrapping the provinces and creating 6+ fully professional teams competing in the Celtic Leauge and the top 3 going forward to the Heineken cup

sounds like nonsense I'm sure.....

[Eoin]

Most of us would rarely see/read/think about AIL to be honest so if we dont see them playing for 1 of the provinces then they're forgotten

Really with only 4 teams that are really worth playing for the opportunities are limited , it may be worth scrapping the provinces and creating 6+ fully professional teams competing in the Celtic Leauge and the top 3 going forward to the Heineken cup

sounds like nonsense I'm sure.....

I dunno, our provinces are just about holding their own in the competition, weakening them isn't the answer.

[liam2me]

It is worrying alright, but in fairness, comparing us to NZ is not really fair. The sport is number 1 there, it's 4th here.

that is irrelevent in this case, the guys have already decided to ply thier trade in rugby, and its not a case of us not being good enough in the end

munster are good enough to win the HC
leinster to make the quarters
ulster aren't quite there yet but they have serious youth talent coming through

also if you go to the IRB website ireland and NZ have roughly the same amount of players and clubs as each other

[Proinsias]

I believe I may have played rugby with Andrew Finn, but I'm not sure if it's the same lad.
If it is, he musta gotten a lot taller.

In addition, Richard Lane has been in the munster development squad a number of times, and the senior squad a handful of times.

Steeson has just signed for Rotherham next season, who are in National League One in England, but that's possibly a step down (maybe not...) from Dungannon.

I think Shane O'Connor is a regular with Con.

[liam2me]

I believe I may have played rugby with Andrew Finn, but I'm not sure if it's the same lad.
If it is, he musta gotten a lot taller.

In addition, Richard Lane has been in the munster development squad a number of times, and the senior squad a handful of times.

Steeson has just signed for Rotherham next season, who are in National League One in England, but that's possibly a step down (maybe not...) from Dungannon.

I think Shane O'Connor is a regular with Con.
con,Dungannon,Rother ham, the munster DEVELOPMENT squad, yeah thatall grand , but then compare that thier counterparts have played S12/14 and for the AB's says it all really

[Proinsias]

con,Dungannon,Rother ham, the munster DEVELOPMENT squad, yeah thatall grand , but then compare that thier counterparts have played S12/14 and for the AB's says it all really
I'm just vsaying I've heard of em, sheesh.


And Tomás O'Leary will make a fine winger for Munster, but he's not got a chance at scrumhalf for at least another couple of years.

We need to cherry pick the best of those guys for the provines, then send the rest off to ply their trade in France and England.

Just like MOD...

[Langer Dan]

the comparison between New Zealands set up and Irelands is laughable.

Realistically Rugby Union is Irelands fourth code behind Hurling, football and soccer. Because of its minority staus, most guys don't start playing until post primary school. Therefore we're starting at least five years behind the All blacks in terms of player development.

As such the entrance to the international and provincial set up seems to be a few years later in Ireland. Donncha who is 27 was playing for Ireland in the u-19's cup in 1998 yet he didn't make the breakthrough for Munster until a couple of years later.

Granted , you don't seem to be considered for provincial of international rugby until you're 21 but the comparison with New Zealand just does not stand up.

New Zealand has a population of 4 million where Rugby Union is the dominant sport.Ireland has a population of 4 million where Rugby is the fourth sport. The comparision does not hold water.

[liam2me]

the NZ comparison is very relevant considering we're talking about the 22 players from both squads, not anyone else.the NZ players have moved on to better things (in a much more competitive environment) whereas our 22 haven't. its that simple and says it all

[Langer Dan]

way to not register a single point I made.

you understand as much about rugby as you do about American foreign policy.

[raZor]

A Finn (Dolphin); R Lane (UCC), J Hearty (Blackrock), G Telford (Dungannon), P McKenzie (Loughborough University); G Steenson (QUB), T O'Leary (Cork Con); J Wickham (Clontarf), D Fogarty (Cork Con), D Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins); D Gannon (Blackrock, capt), S O'Connor (Cork Con); B O'Connor (Cork Con), J Heaslip (Dumpland University), D O'Brien (Old Belvedere).

these are the U-21 WC finalists, TOL and Heaslip are the only 2 i recognise. why are these not household names by now? compared to luke mcallister or piri weepu (who was a sub) for thier AB counterparts

not good enough, IRFU needs to get its head out of its ass

Fogarty is on the Munster panel, Heaslip uis doing great things at Leinster!

[liam2me]

heaslip i know about, unfortunately for fogarty he has potentially one of the best hookers irelands ever produced ahead of him but thats only 3 (including TOL) who have made it to provincial level. how about the NZ lads who have made it internationally?

[Proinsias]

heaslip i know about, unfortunately for fogarty he has potentially one of the best hookers irelands ever produced ahead of him but thats only 3 (including TOL) who have made it to provincial level. how about the NZ lads who have made it internationally?
If Fogarty is good enough, he'll play.

All he has to do is become better than sheehan and flannery and he'll get his game for Ireland.

And if he isn't better than those two, he doesn''t deserve a place on the Ireland side.

[Langer Dan]

Fogarty is on the Munster panel, Heaslip uis doing great things at Leinster!

the All black Ireland comparision is ludicrous .
It simply is not a realistic comparison

[liam2me]

the All black Ireland comparision is ludicrous .
It simply is not a realistic comparison
its this kind of thinking that holds ireland back

[raZor]

the All black Ireland comparision is ludicrous .
It simply is not a realistic comparison

What are you telling me for I didnt say it!
If the IRFU actually payed any notice to Connacht then try and get them into the Heineken Cup and let players on the fringes of the other 3 provinces go into their first team, it would make for a better standard of rugby. Can't see it happening though.