Are Liverpool and Chelsea the new Arsenal and Man Utd?

[shammy feen]

With the decline of Arsenal and also Fergies inevitable retirement over the next few years, Chelsea and a rising Liverpool side will fill the rivalry vacancy provided by Man utd and Arsenal over the last 10 years.

Benitez/Mourinho will gradually replace the Fergie/Wenger double act in the media limelight.

Discuss in less than 5000 words.

Shammy

[Lamps]

i would say, Yes

[homer jay]

i wouldn't say utd are in decline. they're still up there, its just chelsea have raised the bar. but arsenal look to be in decline. crucial for them to get the champs league sopt this season. if they don't, they'll be struggling for a few years i think

[Fat Tom]

Hard to call.
Who knows who'll be where in the next 3 years.

If you think these are gonna be the top 2 sides though, I doubt it.
United are gonna be very strong and if we can avoid injuries next season the addition of a central midfielder should put us in a strong position.

I think the amount of meetings of these teams in the last few seasons has led to them having a cut off each other in the press.
Will they keep at it for foreseeable future - probably, will they dominate as the top 2 the way United and the Gunners did, probably not.

[shammy feen]

i wouldn't say utd are in decline. they're still up there, its just chelsea have raised the bar. but arsenal look to be in decline. crucial for them to get the champs league sopt this season. if they don't, they'll be struggling for a few years i think

I never said United were in decline, just the fact that Fergie will retire within the next few years will move the spotlight firmly on to Mourinho/Benitez.

[Fat Tom]

I never said United were in decline, just the fact that Fergie will retire within the next few years will move the spotlight firmly on to Mourinho/Benitez.

the spotlight will be firmly on United's new man in that case.

[jungle]

A lot will depend on whether United get it right with their new manager. Although, the debt issues won't help either.

I've seen Arsenal written off under Wenger before, only for them to come back again. We'll see on that one.

I've also been very impressed with Martin Jol. I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs made the Champion's League a few times on coming seasons. They probably don't have the level of cash required to win the league though.

[shammy feen]

the spotlight will be firmly on United's new man in that case.

Thats true ...fair enough...might take a new man time to get his team right though...he'd be under fierce pressure from the glasers to deliver at the very least champions league football in his first season...

[homer jay]

I never said United were in decline, just the fact that Fergie will retire within the next few years will move the spotlight firmly on to Mourinho/Benitez.

sorry bro, busy at work so i'm speed reading

[shammy feen]

I've also been very impressed with Martin Jol. I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs made the Champion's League a few times on coming seasons. They probably don't have the level of cash required to win the league though.

I'd agree with that assesment. Martin Jol seems to be an excellent manager and well liked by his troops. Lack of bobs could be a problem.

[Fat Tom]

True but when it happens if he has the majority of the current crop of players he'll be fine.

Adjusting to tactics etc will give him a season to adjust - I'd take 3rd in that case.

but overall I think it could be a few seasons before Fergie goes yet.
We had awful injury problems this season - we then made the squad stronger.

We need a central midfielder now to start and one to cover.
Possibly a creative winger the season after.

[STEVIEG]

When Liverpool start finishing ahead of United and winning the league they will be able to be talked about in the same terms as United. I can't see them finishing ahead of United in the league this year and maintain that with the right purchases by United they won't next year either so I don't see it at all. Although, in fairness, they have made better progress in Europe in the last few years. United only measure themselves against the top team though and they are still 12 points away from where they want to be.

[Out da Lough Like]

i wouldn't say utd are in decline. they're still up there, its just chelsea have raised the bar. but arsenal look to be in decline. crucial for them to get the champs league sopt this season. if they don't, they'll be struggling for a few years i think






You are nothing more then a blurt.

I look forward to hearing more of this type of insightful analysis on "You're On Sky Sports," from all the other half wits.


Heh heh heh.....

[STEVIEG]

Thats true ...fair enough...might take a new man time to get his team right though...he'd be under fierce pressure from the glasers to deliver at the very least champions league football in his first season...


If you can't get a Champions league place these days at a top club you should be taking a long look at yourself.
Fair enough Wenger has had a difficult season but his teams will always be there or there about and should not be written off yet this season.
A team can afford to lose a ridicolous amount of games, about 11 or 12, and still finish 4th.
If it ever comes to the time that United are losing that amount of games in the Premiership then people will be right when they say they are in freefall.

[shammy feen]

You are nothing more then a blurt.

I look forward to hearing more of this type of insightful analysis on "You're On Sky Sports," from all the other half wits.


Heh heh heh.....

Whats a blurt?

Is that like a spurt?

[shammy feen]

If you can't get a Champions league place these days at a top club you should be taking a long look at yourself.
Fair enough Wenger has had a difficult season but his teams will always be there or there about and should not be written off yet this season.
A team can afford to lose a ridicolous amount of games, about 11 or 12, and still finish 4th.
If it ever comes to the time that United are losing that amount of games in the Premiership then people will be right when they say they are in freefall.

Agreed, that day will never come.

Its like saying Red FM will one day be bigger than Neil Prendeville...its a pipe dream.

;)

[STEVIEG]

Agreed, that day will never come.

Its like saying Red FM will one day be bigger than Neil Prendeville...its a pipe dream.

;)


Neil Prenderville is bigger than Arsenal so you are right

[Out da Lough Like]

Whats a blurt?

Is that like a spurt?


Someone who "blurts" out the rehashed "perceived wisdom" of Andy Gray, that pillock Camara, (spelling?) and all the other TV pundits. Particularly appropriate to Internet forum debates where Blurts like Homer Jay really appear to think that you can have a debate about football in the same way that you can debate politics.


Football (and sport in general) is an irrational obsession, where the love of one's own team and the hatred (and I mean hatred), of certain others is par for the course and therefore normal debating rules do not apply.

[shammy feen]

Neil Prenderville is bigger than Arsenal so you are right

Proof of Prendeville Theorem*

If Arsenal is in London

And Neil Prendeville's Ego is bigger than London

Therefore Neil Prendeville is bigger than Arsenal.

QED

*1997 Leaving Certificate Higher Mathematics Paper Question 5

[shammy feen]

Someone who "blurts" out the rehashed "perceived wisdom" of Andy Gray, that pillock Camara, (spelling?) and all the other TV pundits. Particularly appropriate to Internet forum debates where Blurts like Homer Jay really appear to think that you can have a debate about football in the same way that you can debate politics.


Football (and sport in general) is an irrational obsession, where the love of one's own team and the hatred (and I mean hatred), of certain others is par for the course and therefore normal debating rules do not apply.

Go Back To Russia (c)

(c) OTLL 2005

[Out da Lough Like]

Proof of Prendeville Theorem*

If Arsenal is in London

And Neil Prendeville's Ego is bigger than London

Therefore Neil Prendeville is bigger than Arsenal.

QED

*1997 Leaving Certificate Higher Mathematics Paper Question 5

Speaking of egos in London,

Is Jose the square on the hypotenuse?

[shammy feen]

Speaking of egos in London,

Is Jose the square on the hypotenuse?

José is an imaginary number.

He is the square root of minus 1.

The square root of minus 1 is also known as the "special 1"

[Fat Tom]

No, he is Pythagoras

[Rebelred]

With the decline of Arsenal and also Fergies inevitable retirement over the next few years, Chelsea and a rising Liverpool side will fill the rivalry vacancy provided by Man utd and Arsenal over the last 10 years.

Benitez/Mourinho will gradually replace the Fergie/Wenger double act in the media limelight.

Discuss in less than 5000 words.

Shammy
no.

[DJ Silent]

I think teams like West ham, Wigan and Charlton are teams to watch out for in the future

[Langer Dan]

With the decline of Arsenal and also Fergies inevitable retirement over the next few years, Chelsea and a rising Liverpool side will fill the rivalry vacancy provided by Man utd and Arsenal over the last 10 years.

Benitez/Mourinho will gradually replace the Fergie/Wenger double act in the media limelight.

Discuss in less than 5000 words.

Shammy
eh no, Liverpool are a distinctly second rate side who consisitantly bottle it in the league when pressure comes on.

United have nothing to worry about from that team of also rans.

[JonnyOnionRings]

eh no, Liverpool are a distinctly second rate side who consisitantly bottle it in the league when pressure comes on.

United have nothing to worry about from that team of also rans.
Agree Liverpool are a mediocre team that play above themselves. Credit to the manager for that. united are the more skilful team, have the better players with the distinct exception of centre of midfield.

[Philby]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

[Superdave]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

swish!

[Del]

I think teams like West ham, Wigan and Charlton are teams to watch out for in the future

I dont

[shammy feen]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

Why did you edit?

You obviously lost the plot for the first plot...then simmered...cooled down ...thought about a sarcy yet mesured response and then edited your original post....correct?

[Philby]

Actually I did a typo (typed Liverpoo in the final sentence instead of Liverpool) which I thought it wise to sort out before it was jumped on

[shammy feen]

Actually I did a typo (typed Liverpoo in the final sentence instead of Liverpool) which I thought it wise to sort out before it was jumped on

Wise indeed...freudian slip?

heh heh heh...

[Fat Tom]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

Jesus Christ boy take a chill - And what of United's Injury problems?
United went out to the eventual finalists last year, it was a bad draw.
This year they were hopeless.

As for the budget yer spending enough these days yerselves.
I doubt it's twice as big, if it was we'd have got a midfielder in January.

The boys who are posting Liverpool are average shit obviously know fuck all about soccer or are the poor man's POL in terms of WUMs.

[Langer Dan]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

Yes while Liverpools claims to have overtaken United are made all the more forceful by their failure to win a league title in 16 years.

Dont make me laugh.

One fluke in Europe doesn't make ye better than United, the league table reflects this.

[Superdave]

Yes while Liverpools claims to have overtaken United are made all the more forceful by their failure to win a league title in 16 years.

Dont make me laugh.

One fluke in Europe doesn't make ye better than United, the league table reflects this.


There's a 3 point difference. And 12 games to play. could change yet

One fluke in Europe? Normally I wouldn't but seeing as how work is quiet, please Explain.

[STEVIEG]

another commonly held belief a few years ago

[RonnyB]

I agree, United are streets ahead of Liverpool. Evidence of this lies in United's far better perfomance in Europe in the last two years and in the way they have stormed miles ahead of Liverpool in the league despite only having a budget that is twice that of Liverpool. No contest.

The perfect example of how hindsight is 20/20 vision.

[KolaKubes]

i would say, Yes

Good call Lamps.

[Lamps]

Good call Lamps.

easy tiger.

you have more than most to lose with the oul advanced search feature

[KolaKubes]

easy tiger.

you have more than most to lose with the oul advanced search feature

You can find something of mine worse than getting a prediction of a complete paradigm shift at the top of the Premiership wrong?

Oh, and I saw Vidic and Evra being cited again at the weekend as amongst the best January buys in Premiership history.

Turkeys? ;)

[Lamps]

Oh, and I saw Vidic and Evra being cited again at the weekend as amongst the best January buys in Premiership history.


MUTV?

[jimmy magee]

jeez lads there seems to of been a lot of fucked up calls on Arsenal here a few years back. Lot of cluelessness on show

[KolaKubes]

MUTV?

De Paper actually.

I'm still waiting for a doozie.

I'll give you a head start. My defence of Fletcher and advocation of Richardson coming good in a Utd shirt.

[Lamps]

De Paper actually.

I'm still waiting for a doozie.

I'll give you a head start. My defence of Fletcher and advocation of Richardson coming good in a Utd shirt.

I've got a ton of em.

We all do in fairness, here are some of the better ones

Obviously when you were calling for Fergie's head is a good starting point


"Things are just gone stale. I'm not even talking about the vain pursuit of Chelsea's billions, it's more about not competing well enough with a club like Liverpool or Arsenal who haven't the resources Ferguson has available to him. Judging him against them and you'd still have to say he's not doing a great job."



"But all this does is emphasise why Fergie should step down sooner rather than later. As things stand, his place in legend is secured. If he lets the club slide with him, it'll cast a shadow over all he's done."


Another nice one is you're trumpeting of this man for future manyoo boss

Keane would be a much better option than Hughes. Watched our U18's play Blackburn at the weekend and Blackburn were a thuggish disgrace. It's made my mind up anyway. I think any truly great team should be able to mix it a little but plain brute force? Let's leave that to lesser clubs.

This all depends on timing and continuity. If Keane does well enough, quickly enough at Sunderland he'll have a chance in that respect. I do think Utd would benefit from a younger, less mellow man at the helm. I'd say it's a long time since Fergie gave anyone the hairdryer.

Neither have I. I felt sure that TV3 would come with live coverage of the Championship at one stage such was the interest here! :D

What I have seen of Keane's teams, he's basically trying to create them in his own image. Technical players first and foremost. Playing the ball out from the back, maintaining a good tempo in possession and working hard to get the ball back when you don't have it. I thought it looked an overambitious approach for the Championship but, thinking about it again, you should start as you mean to go on. Not just at Sunderland but wherever his career might take him. Otherwise you just end up trying to root out players that "did a job" at a lower level and creating problems for yourself when you get promoted.

As a Utd fan, he's saying the sort of thing at Sunderland that we want to hear from a Utd manager. Giving out about the performance after a 4-2 away win like?! There was a stage over Christmas where you could see a lacks attitude creeping into Utd's defending again, losing late goals to the likes of Reading, it should have been met with a verbal barrage from Ferguson but he's gone all philosophical and chilled out now from what I can see.

Great for playing with your grandkids, not so great for wringing a performance out of a fuckwit like O'Shea.

or the famous United kids of 2005. note to self its now 2008

He, Rossi and Blake look a class apart in the Utd reserves though the Irish lads Evans, Cathcart and Gibson are hot on their heels. I think Fergie was under too much pressure to win something/anything this year to go with Pique against Birmingham though as he's one of these "ball playing" centre-halves who at that age are liable to do something daft. I reckon he did the right thing coming to Utd though, Spanish clubs are infamous for not promoting young players until their early 20s.


Just a taster, i forgot about the one where you said Keane was as good a manager as O'Neill. Think it was about 5 games into Keane's championship career

[Sound]

Oof!

[KolaKubes]

That the best you can do Lamps?

Honestly.

Some qualified comments about Ferguson's tenure, preferring Keane to Hughes as next Utd manager and Utd's youngsters?

Come on like, at least pick out some ones that I wouldn't still agree with.

Best you've got there is my picking out Ebanks-Blake when the guy's now plying his trade in the Championship.

Rossi has 8 goals in 13 appearances for one of La Liga's leading lights this year (his choice to move to Spain), Pique is a fixture in the Utd squad, Evans is a full international and playing Premiership football, Gibson is a full international and a fixture at Wolves on loan. Cathcart's only 18, out on loan as well.

You're saying it was 2005 when I said that?

When these guys were 16/17 years old?

Seem to me like you managed to pick out a point that shows what a great eye I have for a player Lampsy. ;)

[Lamps]

no point going for the obvious stuff

[KolaKubes]

no point going for the obvious stuff

It's a poor show.

[Lamps]

It's a poor show.

Wes Brown better than Terry?

[KolaKubes]

Wes Brown better than Terry?

On safer ground there though Terry's star is hardly in the ascendant while our Wes is putting in good performances in the best defence in the league.

I'd say people's opinions of Terry must be altering, they'll come around fully yet. You wait and see Lamps.

[Sound]

On safer ground there though Terry's star is hardly in the ascendant while our Wes is putting in good performances in the best defence in the league.

I'd say people's opinions of Terry must be altering, they'll come around fully yet. You wait and see Lamps.

Brown is the achilles heel of that defence and it's bumslappery to say otherwise. He adds nothing to FB and has the touch of a rapist. He stands out like Heainze did last year.

That you're contradicting everything you've ever said on here about defending is highly amusing.

And I haven't gone anywhere near the Terry thing. On that score you'd be better off posting a sincere mea cupla and forgetting about it.

[KolaKubes]

Brown is the achilles heel of that defence and it's bumslappery to say otherwise. He adds nothing to FB and has the touch of a rapist. He stands out like Heainze did last year.

That you're contradicting everything you've ever said on here about defending is highly amusing.

And I haven't gone anywhere near the Terry thing. On that score you'd be better off posting a sincere mea cupla and forgetting about it.

Brown is a weakspot in the Utd defence at right back but nothing like Heinze was last year, come off it sound.

I can't bring myself to do a mea culpa on Terry. Just can't. He's so overrated.

[Sound]

Brown is a weakspot in the Utd defence at right back but nothing like Heinze was last year, come off it sound.

I can't bring myself to do a mea culpa on Terry. Just can't. He's so overrated.

If you seriously still think that him and Brown are even in the same ballpark, you'd want to bring yourself out and have a word with yourself. This is the very essence of the bumslap.

[EL TORO]

With the decline of Arsenal and also Fergies inevitable retirement over the next few years, Chelsea and a rising Liverpool side will fill the rivalry vacancy provided by Man utd and Arsenal over the last 10 years.

Benitez/Mourinho will gradually replace the Fergie/Wenger double act in the media limelight.

Discuss in less than 5000 words.

Shammy


I would say Liverpool are in decline not so much rising. How are the gunners in decline? They are merely rebuilding.I firmly believe Chelsea's ship will eventually run aground and we'll see anyone from Spurs, Villa and Everton taking one the top four spots. Although it pains me to say it I cannot see Utd slipping to outside the top 4 spots for many a year to come.

[STEVIEG]

I would say Liverpool are in decline not so much rising. How are the gunners in decline? They are merely rebuilding.I firmly believe Chelsea's ship will eventually run aground and we'll see anyone from Spurs, Villa and Everton taking one the top four spots. Although it pains me to say it I cannot see Utd slipping to outside the top 4 spots for many a year to come.

In defense of Shammy

This was posted a few years ago and i bumped it today

I'm still worried about Chelsea this season though

[KolaKubes]

I would say Liverpool are in decline not so much rising. How are the gunners in decline? They are merely rebuilding.I firmly believe Chelsea's ship will eventually run aground and we'll see anyone from Spurs, Villa and Everton taking one the top four spots. Although it pains me to say it I cannot see Utd slipping to outside the top 4 spots for many a year to come.

Yay.

[AmadeusDC]

Some solid work in the mines today Stephen.

-AmadeusDC-

[STEVIEG]

Some solid work in the mines today Stephen.

-AmadeusDC-

Always a good laugh


It's only a pity we can't go back to 2001, the old board, or even here around Saipan a year later

I've had my moments too, but there are some great threads even active now

Might get some more later

By the way, nothing malicious is meant, supposed better judges than us have got things more wrong, and hindsight is wonderful

[lionelhutz]

Always a good laugh


It's only a pity we can't go back to 2001, the old board, or even here around Saipan a year later

I've had my moments too, but there are some great threads even active now

Might get some more later

By the way, nothing malicious is meant, supposed better judges than us have got things more wrong, and hindsight is wonderful

what did you call it, a 'pathetic vendetta'? heh heh heh

[STEVIEG]

what did you call it, a 'pathetic vendetta'? heh heh heh

You seem a little rattled?

Are you playing ball on Sunday?

[lionelhutz]

You seem a little rattled?

Are you playing ball on Sunday?

goin to barcelona tomorrow. there will have to be extra laps on sunday after last nights display!!!

[STEVIEG]

goin to barcelona tomorrow. there will have to be extra laps on sunday after last nights display!!!

heh heh heh

Enjoy!

[Langer Dan]

another commonly held belief a few years ago

heh heh heh,

slow day in the office Stevie?:-P

[STEVIEG]

heh heh heh,

slow day in the office Stevie?:-P

:)

Kinda like Friday Filth without the breasts