Worst Forum Ever!

[Langer Dan]

your thoughts please

[Smurf-eater]

Am... this one I'd say.

You can't just call a forum the "Cork 2005 Forum" and then hope for success. It's like hearing there's a lot of soap around and starting a soap forum.

Or a magnet forum because of gravity ( and other comments expressing the mildest irritation).

[Violet Beauregarde]

John John, I can't help noticing (repeatedly) that you're sreiously bitter about this whole 2005 thing - what happened? Did you put in an idea it was rejected or something? Get over yourself! There have been loads of things happening if you could be bothered getting off your arse to actually go to anything

[boxoid]

John John, I can't help noticing (repeatedly) that you're sreiously bitter about this whole 2005 thing - what happened? Did you put in an idea it was rejected or something? Get over yourself! There have been loads of things happening if you could be bothered getting off your arse to actually go to anything

don't bother...
best thing you can do is put him on ignore, that way you wont have to put up with it.

[Violet Beauregarde]

don't bother...
best thing you can do is put him on ignore, that way you wont have to put up with it.

thanks, i know what you mean but i do get a bit fed up of the same old shite over and over again, especially as from what i can gather the only thing he amy have gone to is vinyl the exhibition......it's easy to trot out the venom but it's just so boring and unoriginal, and from what i can see there were lots of things happening as part of 2005 - whether they are to your taste or not is an entirely different matter.........

[boxoid]

thanks, i know what you mean but i do get a bit fed up of the same old shite over and over again, especially as from what i can gather the only thing he amy have gone to is vinyl the exhibition......it's easy to trot out the venom but it's just so boring and unoriginal, and from what i can see there were lots of things happening as part of 2005 - whether they are to your taste or not is an entirely different matter.........

don't worry about it biy, it doesnt have to be 2005, its anything with that langer.

nobody talks to him any more.

[Violet Beauregarde]

don't worry about it biy, it doesnt have to be 2005, its anything with that langer.

nobody talks to him any more.

interesting.....i can see why!

[madtheory]

Cork is the smallest place ever to get the CoC designation. As such, I think we have done quite well. Cultural awareness has increased dramatically. For example, the live music scene is vibrant. There is a nice coinciding of public interest in cultural events, and venues coming on stream to provide them. Yes, there are problems with the way the CoC people organised things, but it's a damn good start and has definitely made a positive difference to the city. It's a vast improvement on Cork 5 years ago!

[Violet Beauregarde]

Norrie City Boy, you are truly sad...

how can you just dismiss things without even seeing them? You have no idea what you're talking about but then again i guess that's obvious from your posts! And somehow i have doubts that you are contributing too much 'tax' to the coffers anyway!

[madtheory]

Some people...

[Violet Beauregarde]

Some people...

you know mad theory i am really tempted to get even more sucked into this than i already am but i just can't be bothered as its clear that no matter how many concerts are pointed out to him (not that concerts are the only yard stick of cultural activity anyway) he has his mind made up and it will never change. It's just so ignorant, it makes me really frustrated and it's so typical - don't bother going to anything, don't bother even finding out what's going on but sit back and trash it anyway coz that's just so cool and hard....blah blah....

[madtheory]

It's just so ignorant, it makes me really frustrated and it's so typical - don't bother going to anything, don't bother even finding out what's going on but sit back and trash it anyway coz that's just so cool and hard....blah blah....
Ya, it can be very annoying, I agree. Just get out there and do it, you're better off.

The good thing is that Cork is starting to fill up with doers rather than whiners- SS800, Lotus Lullaby, Corca Dorca etc etc etc.

So let's just let go of the whiners eh? Let them drag themselves down.

[boxoid]

Norrie City Boy, you are truly sad...

how can you just dismiss things without even seeing them? You have no idea what you're talking about but then again i guess that's obvious from your posts! And somehow i have doubts that you are contributing too much 'tax' to the coffers anyway!

you have it spot on, first his beloved president dwbla bush deported his sorry ass from his beloved America (probably because they don't support layabouts)and his and now he is back here spitting and bitching about Ireland and the "racist" Irish and the way we do everything over here. Now we are supposed support his lazy ass and to listen to his trip.
well i don't, just put the fucker on ignore and you wont see his posts, but looking at the replies he is getting from people he is still spouting the same ould shit.

Ill post this link for the little man, i know he reads everything i post.

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=505 32

[madtheory]

The problem for me is not that events are (not) taking place it's the lack of NEW and INNOVATIVE acts. The street theatre was especially brought over I understand but most of the events with 2005 tags on them were happening and have been happening for years.
I don't remember having so much street theatre of such a high calibre ever before... you've lost me there boi.

But theses events are not on the Cork 2005 listings and have not come to Cork because of solicitations from the 2005 organisation and are not open to the public.
Is that not exactly what should happen? Spin offs, which benefit the city, and show the value of culture to pure business people? It proves to these people that culture on its own can actually improve business! Art and commerce feed off each other, that is how it should be. It's what made Paris Paris, and Venice Venice.

Looking back on the opening ceremony I understand now why it was staged in the way t was. It was a made for TV production and the “audience” were corralled for the best TV pictures and not for the best vantage points to see the ceremony.
Actually, I thought it was crap on TV and in the flesh! Loads of things went wrong, they didn't spend enough money, and what the hell have fireworks got to do with Cork? But you can't have everything... I was hoping they'd get Jean Michel Jarre in!

And remember the writing was on the wall when the first director of Cork 2005 flew into Cork Airport to take up his lucrative position and few out again (suddenly according to the Examiner) within hours, it took that fellow just a trip into the city to convince him he was better off out of it.
Wrong. That's a chinese whisper. He was in discussion with the city council for 2 weeks- he resigned because he felt (rightly) that the budget was too small.

Look, if even a born cynic like Cathal Coughlan can state that CoC has made a massive difference to Cork, and completely transformed it from the hick town he left in the eighties, then how can you be so critical? We're a small town, the smallest ever to be designated. To paraphrase Mr. C, we're pulling some serious heavyweight punches for a featherweight!

[STEVIEG]

Look, if even a born cynic like Cathal Coughlan can state that CoC has made a massive difference to Cork, and completely transformed in from the hick town he left in the eighties, then how can you be so critical?


Very good point

I always reckon the energy wasted moaning about these things could be better used doing something yourself anyway..............

[~*~LilLorna~*~]

agreed!

[Violet Beauregarde]

Very good point

I always reckon the energy wasted moaning about these things could be better used doing something yourself anyway..............

i couldn't agree more but it is just very annoying when people moan and grumble and they actually don't know what they are talking about as they haven't bothered going to anything!

As far as I'm concerned there have been lots of really cool things happening as a result of 2005, which wouldn't have happened otherwise and I'm talking about commisisoned things like the Cathal Coughlan event, and the Corcadorca summer of outdoor theatre and the music migrations series as well as umpteen amazing exhibitions i have seen throughout the year - the thing in the esb building etc

As for people who give out about the fact that 2005 are promoting events that would have happened anyway, isn't that exactly how it ought to be? Celebrating what we already do well - and all the festivals are funded by 2005 to do things this year that perhaps they couldn't do otherwise due to finances, it's not just a case of sticking the 2005 logo onto them. Can you imagine the ructions if 2005 neglected to include the jazz, the film, the choral etc festivals. It's the no-win criticisms that are so boring!

people, stop being so negative all the time, it's not cool and actaully getting out there and going to something has to be better than sitting at home in front of the telly or in the pub again!

[madtheory]

I always reckon the energy wasted moaning about these things could be better used doing something yourself anyway..............
Agreed 100%. It's good to see that most people are actually realistic and positive about it.

[miracleofsound]

the point is that with all the attention being lavished on leeside this year it's a great oppotunity for bands, artists, djs etc.. to get noticed. the IMRO showcase had a&r at it this year for the first time, there have been fmc forums foir musicians, hotpress did a feature on cork bands... people should be taking advantage of the opportunity that is there.

[Violet Beauregarde]

the point is that with all the attention being lavished on leeside this year it's a great oppotunity for bands, artists, djs etc.. to get noticed. the IMRO showcase had a&r at it this year for the first time, there have been fmc forums foir musicians, hotpress did a feature on cork bands... people should be taking advantage of the opportunity that is there.

exactly - as i see it cork 2005 can't be responsible for everything - it can only make a start by making a space for these things to happen and then its up to the individuals to make of it what they can / or will....but as ever some people would rather sit around complaining that nobody hand-delivered them a gold-plated invite to the ball.......

[Langer Dan]

ask most of the public of cork how being the capital of culture has affected them and you will get a dissintersted shrug.

C.O.C 2005 has been a massive let-dowm with few highlights and poor publicity and organisation the real aftertaste of this sham "event"

[madtheory]

ask most of the public of cork how being the capital of culture has affected them and you will get a dissintersted shrug.
Right. So I take it you've made a representative survey then? How many people exactly? I'd love to know.

[Langer Dan]

Right. So I take it you've made a representative survey then? How many people exactly? I'd love to know.

the next night you're out, bring up the topic, see what reaction you get/

the general feeling as far as I can tell is a sense of underachievement and general dissapointment.

[madtheory]

Hmmm. You do not make a convincing case. See my previous posts on the subject.

[Samarkand]

Right. So I take it you've made a representative survey then? How many people exactly? I'd love to know.

Have you made a representative survey and found goodwill towards the organisation? To my mind there is absolutely no question at all that the dominant feeling about 2005 is one of disappointment. Some excellent things have come from the year but they've almost all been because of the designation, not because of the 'organisers'; a once-in-a-generation chance to make a city-altering difference has been ballsed up. And the good folk at 2005 know that too; that's why they've all just packed their tents and cleared off in the last couple of months. The director is out on sick leave and, according to the Irish Times, not expected back, most of the programming team have accepted and started jobs elsewhere and media enquiries are being directed to a finance guy in city council. The people of cork have come out of the year well; they reacted well to exciting events and got off their collective arses and made things happen themselves. The 2005 organisation have come out of the year scandalously badly; too many of them are an absolute disgrace.

[madtheory]

Have you made a representative survey and found goodwill towards the organisation?
No, of course not. I am not making any assumptions about other people's opinion, like some other posters are.

My point is that the event has created many benefits for Cork. You are right of course, I cannot deny that the CoC office has a lot of problems, and I never did. I respectfully refer you to my previous posts.

FYI, the majority of the posters in this thread are positive about CoC as an event.

[Killyoursons]

Cork is the smallest place ever to get the CoC designation. As such, I think we have done quite well. Cultural awareness has increased dramatically. For example, the live music scene is vibrant. There is a nice coinciding of public interest in cultural events, and venues coming on stream to provide them. Yes, there are problems with the way the CoC people organised things, but it's a damn good start and has definitely made a positive difference to the city. It's a vast improvement on Cork 5 years ago!

In fairness, if we're comparing the state of Cork now to the way it was five years ago, how much of that change is down to events that would have happened anyway, regardless of the CoC designation, the efforts of the organisers, etc? Some events that have happened during the year were brought in by the organisers - I think the Libeskind thing in Fota was one of those. Some events might not have happened were it not for the designation - the companies Corcadorca invited over during the summer mightn't have come if it was the Coc, but you'd have to ask someone in Corcadorca about that.
But a lot of the positive stuff that's happened this year and over the last few years has had little enough to do with the CoC. The Midsummer Festival and the increased diversity of live music acts in the city spring to mind.
For what it's worth, I think most people I know found that the whole thing rather passed them by, that even allowing for the small budget etc. many of the events were disappointing. No-one I spoke to liked the White Quadrangle, for example. Not a representative survey, mind, just what a few friends feel.

[madtheory]

Whatever... it's clear to me that cultural awareness has increased dramatically THIS YEAR (I meant to say)... see my previous posts...

[Killyoursons]

Whatever... it's clear to me that cultural awareness has increased dramatically THIS YEAR (I meant to say)... see my previous posts...

How much of that was due to developments that were happening anyway, do you think (given the improvements that had already been occurring in the past few years)?

[madtheory]

IMO about 50%. This year though, I noticed a distinctly more positive attitude among artists, and businesses are starting to see art as a good investment. By art I mean painting, music, sculpture, dance etc.

It's all good. As I say, the CoC people have done many things badly, and have not done a lot of things they should have done. But the results are positive despite that.

[shortcircuit]

To be honest, I agree with the pessimists here.
Cork 2005 has had some good, once-off events - things like the Spiegeltent, Ceili Mor, Andrea Bocelli and European Quartet Week- but it hasnt introduced a coherent sense of culture to the city at all, mainly because it failed to communicate with the person on the street. Andrea Bocelli and string quartets are great only if you're part of the exceedingly small minority that are seriously into classical music and can afford to spend 85-100 euro a ticket (for Bocelli) or 20 (for most quartets). As far as I can see there was nothing bar the opening ceremony and the Ceili mor that communicated with the masses. If you log onto the cork 2005.ie website you will see the dearth of stuff thats not completely high-brow.

Other stuff that annoyed me was how Cork 2005 has piggy-backed on other established events in the city- stuff like the film festival, evening echo womens mini marathon and the Lee Swim. Bet the Jazz festival will have a big Cork2005 emblazoned on it too.

And don't get me started on The White Quadrangle- signifies everything thats wrong with Cork 2005. It was incomprehensible to anyone bar the composers, and I can tell you they didn't really know what they were at either.It was over the top, absolutely crazy stuff. Regular people in UCC used to do nothing but laugh their holes off watching the rehearsals they were so bad. I think that says it all

[Azrael]

Whatever... it's clear to me that cultural awareness has increased dramatically THIS YEAR (I meant to say)... see my previous posts...

To use one of your previous posts... seeing as you feel the need to continually refer people to them pointlessly... have you taken a cultural awareness survey to corroborate that statement? I think not, and while I am glad that many things have been done during this year, which may or may not be directly as a result of CoC, there is definitely a leaning towards the unsatisifed and disillusioned viewpoint in the general populace.

When you have figures and facts of your own to contradict this I will listen to you, but until then, your 'Can you prove it?' comment is meaningless.

[starchaser]

exactly - as i see it cork 2005 can't be responsible for everything - it can only make a start by making a space for these things to happen and then its up to the individuals to make of it what they can / or will....but as ever some people would rather sit around complaining that nobody hand-delivered them a gold-plated invite to the ball.......

well somebody somewhere got a gold plated invite or two - you can make a fair number of them for the 13 million euro spent already.

[Samarkand]

Cork 2005 has had some good, once-off events - things like the Spiegeltent, Ceili Mor, Andrea Bocelli and European Quartet Week-

Just as a point of order, no help at all was given to the Spiegeltent (or asked for) from Cork:2005. (When we told them about it their reaction was roughly "how sweet. You've got a cute little version of our beautiful Liebeskind pavilion." Some of the people working there are honest and honourable: some are arrant fools.)

[madtheory]

When you have figures and facts of your own to contradict this I will listen to you, but until then, your 'Can you prove it?' comment is meaningless.
Grand so. The glass is still half full to me.

What do you think of what Cathal Coughlan said?

[madtheory]

only if you're part of the exceedingly small minority that are seriously into classical music and can afford to spend 85-100 euro a ticket (for Bocelli)
Bocelli was sold out.

[Killyoursons]

Grand so. The glass is still half full to me.

What do you think of what Cathal Coughlan said?

That's his opinion. I'm not sure why it should carry more weight than, say, yours, or mine.

[Killyoursons]

Plus, if Coughlan left Cork in the eighties as you said, we're talking about changes that have been happening for fifteen-twenty years. It's a little bit much to put most of that down to CoC.

[madtheory]

His opinion carries weight because he is an artist, from Cork, who makes a living from art. So he's been at the pointy end, i.e. art and business together. He knows whereof he speaks. Plus, he is a born cynic. He's saying (and I agree) that CoC is part of an overall improvement in culture in this city.

Let me emphasize that I know, and have already stated, that CoC has many flaws. OK? Clear?

For feck sake, it's too easy to be cynical. What this city actually needs is for people to see the positive side, which is as real as any of the criticisms made in this thread and bloody well get on with doing what they want to do instead of complaining about the imaginary barriers.

As for opinions, that's all we've got here! :)

[Waddit*]

The problem is this right. In terms of quality artists of whatever ilk Cork is lacking. This is a fact. If you're good you don't stay in Cork cos' you'll only end up banging d'oul head off the pavement. Bullshit is the main facet of Corks art guild. Hang about this gaffe long enough and you'll see the same doting, nit infested, inbred, pot smoking left wing/nazi yahoo's running or sticking their oar into everyything.The fact that they never made a decent bit of art or know diddle dum about culture does not matter as they once were on the Echo for winning a kiddies poetry competition or they can play the fiddle.And here that counts for a lot.

Anyway , the City of Culture has been dross. Though I've missed a skelp of it as I was doing time. Ye can dress it up all ye like but no half arsed fuckbucket can put a positive spin on this. Culture went down the Lee a long time ago and this happened long before Roy and Sonia were cultural icons.

[Killyoursons]

His opinion carries weight because he is an artist, from Cork, who makes a living from art. So he's been at the pointy end, i.e. art and business together. He knows whereof he speaks. Plus, he is a born cynic. He's saying (and I agree) that CoC is part of an overall improvement in culture in this city.

Let me emphasize that I know, and have already stated, that CoC has many flaws. OK? Clear?

For feck sake, it's too easy to be cynical. What this city actually needs is for people to see the positive side, which is as real as any of the criticisms made in this thread and bloody well get on with doing what they want to do instead of complaining about the imaginary barriers.

As for opinions, that's all we've got here! :)

That's a fair point about Coughlan.
Let me emphasize, though, that I'm not sayin g that CoC was completely useless. The issue is whether there's a feeling of disillusionment out there about it (in my experience there is) and whether this feeling is justified (a more complicated question, because it relates to what people had a right to expect from the CoC). Pointing out the failings of the CoC doesn't mean ignoring the positive side or not doing anything. It's just that there's been a lot of stuff in the last year or so about what a great little city we have, not just from CoC but from Where's Me Culture as well. They're fully entitled to hold this line, I just think they're being a little naive (and fair enough, some otehr people are being nakedly cynical about the whole thing, witness some posts on this thread).

[madtheory]

Cool.

I just think they're being a little naive (and fair enough, some otehr people are being nakedly cynical about the whole thing, witness some posts on this thread).
Maybe they are naieve, but it's always better to talk up the positive rather than the negative (I won't get in to why because I think the nakedly cynical posters here would laugh at self help type stuff...).

Knowing some of the people behind "where's me culture" though, they are certainly not naieve. They are among the people in Cork who are always doing interesting/ cool/ fun cultural things. They are not part of the "pot smoking lefty" gang- far from it, at least one of them is a raving capitalist ;)

So it's all good.

[shortcircuit]

Samarkand-
Mea Culpa about the speigletent, I thought they had something to do with it but I was mistaken- I was out of the country myself when it was on, but my brother said it kicked ass, well done.

I have also checked out the Bocelli thing- I apologise profusely to Opera 2005 who organised the event, cork2005 didn't do it at all. I have visited dismal vengeance on the person who misinformed me.

This just shows how cork2005 had SFA to do with the best events in cork this year, and also how much we should appreciate the organisations that swim against the tide and provide great events like those mentioned above- you're the people that keep culture alive in Cork

[Langer Dan]

its not ceaseless negativity but (for the day thats in it) Cork 2005 has been a complete wash-out.

[Langer Dan]

it's still shit