What Rafa really said at HT in Istanbul

[Philby]

Got this story from the maker of the documentary below who has interviewed Vladi Smicer for the programme:

Straight away Rafa sat them all down and started working on the tacticx board straight away. He was making a few points about bringing on Didi to screen the centre-backs & take Kaka out of the game, about how he was bringing Cisse on to add some penetration down the right flank & push Maldini back...after 5 minutes of tactics chat Vladi said - "gaffer, you have 12 players" - Rafa hadn't even noticed & also at that point he was unaware that Finnan was injured. Great little story, just shows that even the most relaxed managers can get caught up in the emotion of it all.
5th Aug 2005 2100Hrs Liverpool: One Night In May Sky One

8 Aug 2005 2200hrs Sky Mix

"New series of documentaries about sport, the obsession that unites the world, focusing on incredible achievements and compelling characters. This year's Champions League final was possibly the greatest of all time as Liverpool stormed to victory after a wretched first half. The incredible Istanbul experience is retold from the fans' perspective."

[KolaKubes]

Like fuck it does! :D Shows that the most important attribute a manager can have is a bit of luck.

[Philby]

True enough, you do need an element at luck to win the big prizes. No denying that although the changes Rafa made at HT (could also be argued that he was foolish to start w/o Didi in the first place) combined with his positive attitude contributed in a massive way to that glorious comeback.

[comred]

Good luck / bad luck evens itself out.

[KolaKubes]

I don't know why Liverpool fans are already developing such a chip on their shoulder about the Final win. Look, they had a bit of luck, maybe even more than a bit, on their way to winning the thing, what trophy-winning side in any sport doesn't?

[Jim Comic]

true

[Philby]

I don't know why Liverpool fans are already developing such a chip on their shoulder about the Final win. Look, they had a bit of luck, maybe even more than a bit, on their way to winning the thing, what trophy-winning side in any sport doesn't?

What chip on the shoulder?

[KolaKubes]

What chip on the shoulder?

Lot of Pool fans I know get very touchy if you even suggest they had a wee bit of luck in that final. In fairness, it's already known on the continent as the final Milan simply fucked away.

[ho chi feen]

Lot of Pool fans I know get very touchy if you even suggest they had a wee bit of luck in that final. In fairness, it's already known on the continent as the final Milan simply fucked away.

Debatable. If Liverpool hadn't taken the game to them as they did would they have wilted? That's doubtful. It all comes down to the two teams on the day, and the fact is (sheva's miss aside) Milan were put on the rack after half-time, and they simply didn't have any response. All credit to Pool for doing so.

I think it raises serious questions about Ancelotti's managerial skills too... add this final to pissing away the Scudetto to a vastly inferior Juventus side, fluffing what should have been an unassailable lead against Depór the year before, the pitiful collapse of his Juve side on the final day in 99/00, and of course that semi-final in '99. It's no surprise that he's got a reputation for being a bit 'soft' in Italy.

[KolaKubes]

Debatable. If Liverpool hadn't taken the game to them as they did would they have wilted? That's doubtful. It all comes down to the two teams on the day, and the fact is (sheva's miss aside) Milan were put on the rack after half-time, and they simply didn't have any response. All credit to Pool for doing so.

I think it raises serious questions about Ancelotti's managerial skills too... add this final to pissing away the Scudetto to a vastly inferior Juventus side, fluffing what should have been an unassailable lead against Depór the year before, the pitiful collapse of his Juve side on the final day in 99/00, and of course that semi-final in '99. It's no surprise that he's got a reputation for being a bit 'soft' in Italy.

I don't think Milan's collapse in the second half was Ancellotti's fault actually. Milan looked very beatable against PSV as well, despite having all the advantages going into the game. I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.

[Sound]

I don't think Milan's collapse in the second half was Ancellotti's fault actually. Milan looked very beatable against PSV as well, despite having all the advantages going into the game. I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.

Nothing to do with Liverpool then?

Small- time.

[STEVIEG]

I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.


The manager picks these guys though (and i wouldn't call Seedorf a bottler)

[KolaKubes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KolaKubes
I don't think Milan's collapse in the second half was Ancellotti's fault actually. Milan looked very beatable against PSV as well, despite having all the advantages going into the game. I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.

Nothing to do with Liverpool then?

Small- time.

I said nothing about Liverpool there??!!

[KolaKubes]

The manager picks these guys though (and i wouldn't call Seedorf a bottler)

Seedorf's one of these players who'll play very well in a team that's playing well but can't be relied on when things aren't going to plan. A very bad trait in a player in my opinion.

[Sound]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KolaKubes
I don't think Milan's collapse in the second half was Ancellotti's fault actually. Milan looked very beatable against PSV as well, despite having all the advantages going into the game. I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.



I said nothing about Liverpool there??!!

Exactly! This assumption that Milan collapsed etc is very convenient. Liverpool scored three goals yet they get no credit.

Funny that..

[General Michael Collins]

Cant wait to see the documentary.Last seasons final is now regarded as the greatest European Cup Final of all time and I for one will never get sick of looking at anything related to that great day:May 25th 2005.

[KolaKubes]

Exactly! This assumption that Milan collapsed etc is very convenient. Liverpool scored three goals yet they get no credit.

Funny that..

Exactly! This assumption that Milan collapsed etc is very convenient. Liverpool scored three goals yet they get no credit.

Funny that..

Jeez, it seemed to be a bit of both from where I was sitting.

Look, here's the tale of the night of May 25th for me, self-confessed red-tinted specs Utd fan. Came home a bit late, missed the first goal, expected a comfortable Milan win. As first half progressed, was anxious that Liverpool didn't get embarrassed (that's grounds for verbal execution amongst a lot of Utd fans there in itself). Into the second half and i found myself caught up in a truly amazing fightback and one of the best games I've ever seen. Hand on heart, the ideal finish would have been Shevchenko finishing that incredibly simple chance at the death but it wasn't to be. I didn't begrudge Liverpool their win given the circumstances and was quickly on the blower to my brother to congratulate him, knowing just how happy he would be.
I felt a bit like a "taigue" watching the festivities on July 12th though and, sure enough, within a day or two the compunction to rub it in started to surface. The first sign of trouble was two Liverpool "fans" who had issued the following utterances during the year, respectively, "I don't care, I was only worried about the rugby (after the League Cup final)" and "Oh, I don't follow Liverpool anymore". Granted, these people are obviously spastics and not representative of Liverpool fans on the whole. However, in general, I felt my magnanimity after a humiliating season for Utd and such a fantastic one for Liverpool wasn't exactly met in kind and have probably lurched towards really wishing things had gone very differently. It's a pity, especially given our detachment from the whole local politics, that there can't be a degree of mutual respect between two proud rivals. I don't have any particular problem with Liverpool truth be known and was absolutely desperate that they beat Chelsea, a club which now represent everything which is wrong with football today for me. Liverpool, on the other hand, are a well-run club that have a good feel for the traditions which should be held dear within the game in these islands (though I think they're going overboard on the Spaniards!); a classy and talented manager; passionate if even more one-eyed fans than our own; and a good tradition of cultivating some excellent teams and quality players.

Granted ye're just a pale imitation of Utd but we can't all be perfect! :D

[ho chi feen]

AC Milan are over rated.
Thank god this year they were shown up.

Ahra, they've been there or thereabouts for three years now, so they must be doing something right.

[Sound]

Jeez, it seemed to be a bit of both from where I was sitting.

Look, here's the tale of the night of May 25th for me, self-confessed red-tinted specs Utd fan. Came home a bit late, missed the first goal, expected a comfortable Milan win. As first half progressed, was anxious that Liverpool didn't get embarrassed (that's grounds for verbal execution amongst a lot of Utd fans there in itself). Into the second half and i found myself caught up in a truly amazing fightback and one of the best games I've ever seen. Hand on heart, the ideal finish would have been Shevchenko finishing that incredibly simple chance at the death but it wasn't to be. I didn't begrudge Liverpool their win given the circumstances and was quickly on the blower to my brother to congratulate him, knowing just how happy he would be.
I felt a bit like a "taigue" watching the festivities on July 12th though and, sure enough, within a day or two the compunction to rub it in started to surface. The first sign of trouble was two Liverpool "fans" who had issued the following utterances during the year, respectively, "I don't care, I was only worried about the rugby (after the League Cup final)" and "Oh, I don't follow Liverpool anymore". Granted, these people are obviously spastics and not representative of Liverpool fans on the whole. However, in general, I felt my magnanimity after a humiliating season for Utd and such a fantastic one for Liverpool wasn't exactly met in kind and have probably lurched towards really wishing things had gone very differently. It's a pity, especially given our detachment from the whole local politics, that there can't be a degree of mutual respect between two proud rivals. I don't have any particular problem with Liverpool truth be known and was absolutely desperate that they beat Chelsea, a club which now represent everything which is wrong with football today for me. Liverpool, on the other hand, are a well-run club that have a good feel for the traditions which should be held dear within the game in these islands (though I think they're going overboard on the Spaniards!); a classy and talented manager; passionate if even more one-eyed fans than our own; and a good tradition of cultivating some excellent teams and quality players.

Granted ye're just a pale imitation of Utd but we can't all be perfect! :D


Good point. well made...up until the last line of course! ;0)

[KolaKubes]

Good point. well made...up until the last line of course! ;0)

Why thank you Sir. I also do a fine line in winding up the Mancs on redissue when they start prattling on about "bindipping, murdering scouse twats" when the place is only up the road from them. Plonkers.

[chipsncheese]

lets hope they show the bars afterwards in taksim square where we sang our bollox off for the night.

[General Michael Collins]

Thought the documentary was top class.Gave practically everybodies view on the final from lfc players,and fans to milan players and fans.I know LFC have many glorious chapters in there history and that up to this year Rome 1977 was widely regarded as the greatest night in the clubs history,howver I think most people would now admit that May 25th in the Ataturk olympic stadium was THE greatest night in the history of Liverpool Football Club.

[Philby]

GMC - any chance of a quick run-down of the highlights of the show (no-Sky unfortunately)? Which fans did they have footage of? Cheers.

[General Michael Collins]

GMC - any chance of a quick run-down of the highlights of the show (no-Sky unfortunately)? Which fans did they have footage of? Cheers.
Yeah,Philby,they showed a good bit of Taksim square before the game,there were interviews with celebrity fans DJ Spoony,Kelly Dalglish,Sue-cant think of her second name,she played Sile Grant in Brookside.There were also interviews with Thommo,aldo,alan kennedy and rush,thay had cameras in milan where there were thousands watching the game on a big screen,they also interviewed five or six milan fans,a couple of whom were at the game.they interviewd a scouser who left at half time.There were also interviews with hamann,vladi,dudek and carra,and milan players stam,gattuso and ambrosini.I was an excellent documentary that showed what the achievement meant o so many people.

[Philby]

Did they show the bit where Vladi talks about half-time (see first post in this thread)?

[comred]

Did they show the bit where Vladi talks about half-time (see first post in this thread)?

No, they didn't show that bit. They did talk to the Liverpool lad who managed to blag his way onto the pitch at the end of the game and started celebrating with the players, his dad watchin in a pub in Liverpool couldn't believe what he was seeing.

[raZor]

that lad was a legend fair play, the photo of him at the end with the trophy and the team is outstanding

[Philby]

Got this story from the maker of the documentary below who has interviewed Vladi Smicer for the programme:

Straight away Rafa sat them all down and started working on the tacticx board straight away. He was making a few points about bringing on Didi to screen the centre-backs & take Kaka out of the game, about how he was bringing Cisse on to add some penetration down the right flank & push Maldini back...after 5 minutes of tactics chat Vladi said - "gaffer, you have 12 players" - Rafa hadn't even noticed & also at that point he was unaware that Finnan was injured. Great little story, just shows that even the most relaxed managers can get caught up in the emotion of it all.

5th Aug 2005 2100Hrs Liverpool: One Night In May Sky One


This story has finally surfaced in today's Mirror (albeit slightly changed)

It was a chance that was gloriously, unforgettably taken and Benitez broke open the secrets of his finest moment in A Season On The Brink, a new authorised account of his first term at Anfield, by distinguished Spanish journalist Guillem Balague.


But the Liverpool chief told how even after he had given the exhortation that changed everything, his plans were enmeshed in a few minutes of sheer chaos.


Benitez wanted to introduce Didi Hamann and told Djimi Traore he was coming off - but then learned Steve Finnan's injury was too bad for him to continue.


Benitez added: "I started to write the new formation on the board. I told Traore to get changed and that Hamann was coming on for him. The idea was for Hamann to make Kaka's life much tougher.


"I took Didi up to the whiteboard so he understood what I wanted and explained the tactical changes to the rest of the side. Then I was told Finnan was injured.


"Finnan was unhappy. He believed he could keep going. But I reckoned if he told me midway through the second half I'd have to make a change beyond my control.


"It was a total mess for a while. I was reckoning on Djibril Cisse on the right but someone pointed out I'd have no more substitutions.


"So I took Cisse out but also deleted Luis Garcia from the board because I wanted to move him. Now I only had 10 players in the team. The system was changed several times on the board and it created havoc.


"The idea was to play 3-4-2-1 with John Arne Riise tucked in. But with the realisation Finnan wasn't fit to stay on, the logical thing was to tell Traore he wasn't being taken off. By this time he had his boots off and was on his way to the shower."




http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/tm_objectid=16348116 %26method=full%26sit eid=94762%26headline =%2dyou%2dare%2dlive rpool%2d%2d%2dget%2d your%2dheads%2dup%2d %2dget%2dout%2dthere %2dand%2ddo%2dit%2df or%2dthe%2dfans%2d%2 d-name_page.html

also some interesting points about the specifics of Rafa's tactical changes

Somehow, despite the flurry of thoughts and the situation, the seeds of glory were being sown.


Benitez added: "In the first half we weren't threatening around their box. We wanted to change the pattern by using two players in the hole between midfield and Milan Baros.


"The task was to produce terrific movement and also put massive pressure on Milan building out of defence through Pirlo. We felt we could slam the brakes on the damaging work which Gatuso, Seedorf and most of all Kaka were doing.


"Using three centre-halves would make us more secure by staying tight on the runs of their strikers. You can try anything tactically if you've worked hard on such ideas in training. We had."


In that instant, a voice cried out, reminding the players of the second half comeback against Greek side Olympiakos that had brought the Reds back from the brink in their final group game.


Outside, the stunned Liverpool fans were singing the roof off the stadium, not even dreaming of what would follow in front of their disbelieving eyes.


Benitez said: "Normally it's Xabi or Carra or Gerrard who shouts 'Come on boys' when it's needed. In the first few minutes there wasn't any of that.


"But in the last couple of minutes before going back out, the animation and noise hit a normal level.


"We needed to attack and they let us. We scored and started to look confident all over the pitch. When a team loses control of a match, it can take 15 minutes to get it back. While they are recharging their batteries, anything can happen.


"I didn't hear the fans singing You'll Never Walk Alone from the dressing room. On the way out I did hear it but I was lost in my thoughts."

[Superdave]

the hairs still stand on the back of my neck when i read anything about it! What a night!

[Lamps]

I don't think Milan's collapse in the second half was Ancellotti's fault actually. Milan looked very beatable against PSV as well, despite having all the advantages going into the game. I think they have a few bottlers in key positions. For example, I wouldn't like to have Pirlo, Seedorf or Kaka in the trenches with me if you get my drift.

Some Kola views on Milan.

[Jim Comic]

the hairs still stand on the back of my neck when i read anything about it! What a night!

i must have watched the 6 minutes with the 3 pool goals on dvd 200 times since i reckon, still can't believe it every time i see it

[Rebelred]

Some Kola views on Milan.

to be honest I think Milan were a better team 2 years ago than they are now. Seedorf played for 5 minutes last night and managed to score 1 and create one, not a bad return but he was nowhere to be seen against a very ordinary Bayern midfield for the rest of the time he was on the pitch.
Kaka has undoubtedly improved in the last 2 years, as has Pirlo, but looking around the rest of the side, there hasn't been much of a change. Technically great players, but Nesta,Maldini and co needed a hell of alot of protection from Ambrosini and Gattuso last night. But all they need is one chance and they'll carve you open

[KolaKubes]

Ehm, Lamps, it's fair to say I've been going on about this not being a great era for European football with quite a while.

The lack of quality midfielders and the hording thereof by Chelsea and Liverpool with that in mind is particularly acute.

If Utd or Chelsea go on now to win both a domestic title and the European Cup, that is a notable achievement even in this most prosaic of eras for the game.

Look at last Saturday, a fairly ordinary Portsmouth side turned into a major hurdle for Utd because they're back from Rome having played with 10 men for 60 minutes.

Regardless of the level of opposition, simple tiredness and pressure comes into it when you're competing on all fronts like Utd and Chelsea are. It might make all the difference to the outcome of Liverpool and Chelsea or, for that matter, to Utd and Milan given the respective involvement in domestic title challenges.

It's hard to imagine any scenario where you wouldn't have to give some begrudging credit to a team that could pull off domestic and European success in the same year.

Yes, even Chelsea (the fuckers). :D

[KolaKubes]

to be honest I think Milan were a better team 2 years ago than they are now. Seedorf played for 5 minutes last night and managed to score 1 and create one, not a bad return but he was nowhere to be seen against a very ordinary Bayern midfield for the rest of the time he was on the pitch.
Kaka has undoubtedly improved in the last 2 years, as has Pirlo, but looking around the rest of the side, there hasn't been much of a change. Technically great players, but Nesta,Maldini and co needed a hell of alot of protection from Ambrosini and Gattuso last night. But all they need is one chance and they'll carve you open

I think I summed him up there when I said he's the sort of player that looks good in good teams.

I think he needs others around him to perform though. Unlike, say, Keane or Davids or Gerrard. You wouldn't be bothered signing him to strengthen a mid-table Prem side like, he'd just disappear.

[Lamps]

Seedorf's one of these players who'll play very well in a team that's playing well but can't be relied on when things aren't going to plan. A very bad trait in a player in my opinion.

bump