Manchester United Transfer News

[Forsberg]

Valid point and I asked this question to myself too. The thing is, from Hargreaves point of view, when he signed the 4 year contract, none of the big 4 in England came in for him and he wasn't sure if they ever would. A perfectly understandable situation. Then 6 months later, United want him, and he says, hold on I want to realise my dream and play for a top Premiership club. He's never hid his desire to play in the Premiership one day. Just 'cause you sign a 4 year contract, doesn't mean you have to stay there for 4 years. Things change.

When people get married, they're 100% sure that this is the person they'll spend their whole life with, but I heard of a fella in Cork recently who asked for a divorce after coming back from the honeymoon! People change their minds, it's life!!
Well that's where you're wrong. If Bayern want to, they can keep him for that period. If he doesn't want to play then they can let him rot in the reserves. They won't , but they can.

By the way. Divorce involves breaking a contract as such. And to do that there has to be agreement from both side, no?

[MonTheHoops]

Why should Bayern sell just because he doesn't want to be there any more? Petrov doesn't want to be at Celtic any more but he signed a 4 and a half year contract back in January so tough shit. If someone meets his valuation then he'll leave but the situation suits Celtic and Celtic alone.

Same goes for Hargreaves. Signed an extension so tough shit if he wants to leave now. Bayern don't have to sell either and if United match his value to Bayern they'll part with him.

[Actin The Sham]

Aurelio was free.

I know your limits alright.


So they're not going to pay him to play for them?

Although the way they "played" last saturday, they should'nt have paid anyone, except maybe Stevie.


His rolling dive in the box was surely worth €150, which is what a bit part stuntman would have got for it.



On planet sound Michael Ballack isn't going to cost Chelsea anything either.


Mockery!


You know nothing about pedantry.



Know your limits.


FFS.

[Actin The Sham]

no problem, my pleasure. but i'm not lord of it, its a free system...for the people. ;)



ya had to drag this into a pool v utd. no dice. stick to the F1



wrong. i have previously stated my position on the SFI.

Che Mourinho, you say that just because he signs a contract for 4 years, it doesn't mean he has to stay there for 4 years. if the roles were reversed, bayern would have to pay out the rest of his contract. as forsberg said, too much player power. all this 'come and get me' crap is making a mockery of the transfer system with teams like lyon (re:essien) and arsenal (re:cole) being almost held to ransom by want away players.



Mockery!



You know nothing about the irrational workings of the Sports Forum.




FFS.

[homer jay]

Mockery!



You know nothing about the irrational workings of the Sports Forum.




FFS.

:-|

[Actin The Sham]

:-|


Tick.....

[Che Mourinho]

Why should Bayern sell just because he doesn't want to be there any more? Petrov doesn't want to be at Celtic any more but he signed a 4 and a half year contract back in January so tough shit. If someone meets his valuation then he'll leave but the situation suits Celtic and Celtic alone.

Same goes for Hargreaves. Signed an extension so tough shit if he wants to leave now. Bayern don't have to sell either and if United match his value to Bayern they'll part with him.

That's what I said, if United match the value, and I think £18m (or a lot less) would easily compensate Bayern.

I'm a Celtic fan, but I think Petrov was perfectly right to leave, if he wants a new challenge and has other ambitions and has gone about it in the right way (which he does seem to have?). Celtic can say no of course, or try and change his mind, and if that's unsuccessful, then they're willing to listen to offers. Celtic and Petrov are handling this situation a lot better than Bayern and Hargreaves.

Basically, Bayern are threatening to go to FIFA, which is a load of bollox!

[Che Mourinho]

Well that's where you're wrong. If Bayern want to, they can keep him for that period. If he doesn't want to play then they can let him rot in the reserves. They won't , but they can.

By the way. Divorce involves breaking a contract as such. And to do that there has to be agreement from both side, no?

Ok, they can make a player rot in the reserves, but that's a bit childish, isn't it? Gallas was acting the langer with Chelski, by coming back from holidays etc., but Hargreaves has just asked Bayern to let him leave and play in the country he plays for internationally. He's been there 9 years (since 16) and he just wants a new challenge.

I agree that player's can hold clubs to ransom and that's acting the bollox, but there's a mature way of dealing with these issues and sometimes the clubs don't show that maturity.

[Actin The Sham]

I have to say that in this instance Che Mourinho is right.

For precedent, see the Ruud Van Nistelrooy transfer saga. The player didn't want to stay, so the manager and the club decided to do what was best for everyone in the circumstances. OK, in Bayern's case, they probably want to keep him, particularly in the light of how their fans may view the failure of the club to manage the Michael Ballack situation over the past eighteen months, but they shouldn't attempt to punish Hargreaves for their own past ineptitude.

OK, from a footballing perspective it doesn't make sense for them to lose Hargreaves at this time, but they are handling it badly from a PR perspective.

[homer jay]

That's what I said, if United match the value, and I think £18m (or a lot less) would easily compensate Bayern.

I'm a Celtic fan, but I think Petrov was perfectly right to leave, if he wants a new challenge and has other ambitions and has gone about it in the right way (which he does seem to have?). Celtic can say no of course, or try and change his mind, and if that's unsuccessful, then they're willing to listen to offers. Celtic and Petrov are handling this situation a lot better than Bayern and Hargreaves.

Basically, Bayern are threatening to go to FIFA, which is a load of bollox!

why is it a load of bollox? they haven't given utd permission to talk to hargreaves, so if they have, thats tapping-up!

if a team came in for van der sar (or any other important player at utd), do you think utd would cave in and sell, just because that team 'badly need a goalie'? i think not. bayern obviously want to keep hargreaves for the team.

[Actin The Sham]

why is a load of bollox? they haven't given utd permission to talk to hargreaves, so if they have, thats tapping-up!

if a team came in for van der sar (or any other important player at utd), do you think utd would cave in and sell, just because that team 'badly need a goalie'? i think not. bayern obviously want to keep hargreaves for the team.


You forgot the whole "the player himself really wants to leave" part, in your "analogy."

[Actin The Sham]

why is it a load of bollox? they haven't given utd permission to talk to hargreaves, so if they have, thats tapping-up!

if a team came in for van der sar (or any other important player at utd), do you think utd would cave in and sell, just because that team 'badly need a goalie'? i think not. bayern obviously want to keep hargreaves for the team.



BTW, as early as last May, during the whole RVN saga, United and Bayern were attempting to do a deal that would lead to RVN going to Bayern, with Hargreaves going in the opposite direction. Real Madrid eventually outbid Bayern, in a pure cash deal but there was no "tapping up." Bayern and Manchester United were in discussions about a transfer deal during which the possibility of Hargreaves being sold to United was brought up. The players agent and the Manchester United management were working along these lines from early summer.

So "permission" was given, if not explicitly, then in the context of a wider deal. This in my view, is what unsettled the player.

Know Your Limits.

[homer jay]

You forgot the whole "the player himself really wants to leave" part, in your "analogy."

i was simplifying it, and i'm just expanding on the my initial response to Che M.

its my view that contracts should be honoured by both sides. where was hargreaves 'come and get me' before he signed his contract extension?

on your point about rvn, both club and player wanted the move. it was handled well by all parties, but this situation is different, the player wants to leave, but the club don't want to sell him.

[Che Mourinho]

why is it a load of bollox? they haven't given utd permission to talk to hargreaves, so if they have, thats tapping-up!

if a team came in for van der sar (or any other important player at utd), do you think utd would cave in and sell, just because that team 'badly need a goalie'? i think not. bayern obviously want to keep hargreaves for the team.

If there's tapping up, then that's illegal and I don't agree with that, but I'm not sure if that claim has been made (see STEVIE G point from before).

If a team can in for any United player and he said that he wanted to leave United and play for them, well then good luck to him and I think United should sell. This is exactly what United did with Mikel Obi. £12, thank you very much!

[Che Mourinho]

they shouldn't attempt to punish Hargreaves for their own past ineptitude.



Thanks for that support ATS. You're right, Bayern know they've fucked up over transfers and it's like Hargreaves is the one to suffer.

[Actin The Sham]

i was simplifying it, and i'm just expanding on the my initial response to Che M.

its my view that contracts should be honoured by both sides. where was hargreaves 'come and get me' before he signed his contract extension?

on your point about rvn, both club and player wanted the move. it was handled well by all parties, but this situation is different, the player wants to leave, but the club don't want to sell him.



Oh...


I see.


You were simplifying it.



Heh heh heh....

[Forsberg]

If there's tapping up, then that's illegal and I don't agree with that, but I'm not sure if that claim has been made (see STEVIE G point from before).

If a team can in for any United player and he said that he wanted to leave United and play for them, well then good luck to him and I think United should sell. This is exactly what United did with Mikel Obi. £12, thank you very much!
Well I think Rumminegge's statement that they're considering legal action would imply that there was tapping up involved.

[Forsberg]

If there's tapping up, then that's illegal and I don't agree with that, but I'm not sure if that claim has been made (see STEVIE G point from before).

If a team can in for any United player and he said that he wanted to leave United and play for them, well then good luck to him and I think United should sell. This is exactly what United did with Mikel Obi. £12, thank you very much!
So if Rooney expressed a desire to leave United for say , Chelsea, do ya think That United would roll over and just say 'well If he wants to move , good luck to him ' I think not

[Sound]

So they're not going to pay him to play for them?

Although the way they "played" last saturday, they should'nt have paid anyone, except maybe Stevie.


His rolling dive in the box was surely worth €150, which is what a bit part stuntman would have got for it.



On planet sound Michael Ballack isn't going to cost Chelsea anything either.


Mockery!


You know nothing about pedantry.



Know your limits.


FFS.

No fee was involved in the transfer. Suck it up, wrong boy.

[Actin The Sham]

No fee was involved in the transfer. Suck it up, wrong boy.


So he didn't sign any contract which would involve him being paid a fee for playing for them?


Suck it up, wrong boy.

[MonTheHoops]

That's what I said, if United match the value, and I think £18m (or a lot less) would easily compensate Bayern.

I'm a Celtic fan, but I think Petrov was perfectly right to leave, if he wants a new challenge and has other ambitions and has gone about it in the right way (which he does seem to have?). Celtic can say no of course, or try and change his mind, and if that's unsuccessful, then they're willing to listen to offers. Celtic and Petrov are handling this situation a lot better than Bayern and Hargreaves.

Basically, Bayern are threatening to go to FIFA, which is a load of bollox!


They are going to officially complain because Hargreaves has obviously been upset by United. If Hargreaves is saying the offer on the table is good, and Bayern haven't accepted a bid, then Bayern have every right to complain.

I bear Petrov no grudges. 7 years of playing in a dross league. He'll leave a good Celt and will always be remembered as a good Celt. I just hope the majority of fans remember him for that. The fee we receive for him should soften any blow.

P.S. United are handling this completely opposite to the Carrick transfer where Carrick also wanted to leave. United had contacted Spurs first though, not the player.

[homer jay]

BTW, as early as last May, during the whole RVN saga, United and Bayern were attempting to do a deal that would lead to RVN going to Bayern, with Hargreaves going in the opposite direction. Real Madrid eventually outbid Bayern, in a pure cash deal but there was no "tapping up." Bayern and Manchester United were in discussions about a transfer deal during which the possibility of Hargreaves being sold to United was brought up. The players agent and the Manchester United management were working along these lines from early summer.

So "permission" was given, if not explicitly, then in the context of a wider deal. This in my view, is what unsettled the player.

Know Your Limits.

so since the rvn transfer has ended, so has bayerns interest in selling hargreaves. this transfer is separate. no permission was given to utd to talk to him.

[homer jay]

Oh...


I see.


You were simplifying it.



Heh heh heh....

:|

[Sound]

So he didn't sign any contract which would involve him being paid a fee for playing for them?


Suck it up, wrong boy.

You said 'buy'.

He wasn't bought as no fee changed hands.

The standards of your pedantry have dropped.

[Actin The Sham]

You said 'buy'.

He wasn't bought as no fee changed hands.

The standards of your pedantry have dropped.


Mockery!



You Know Nothing About Pedantry.


FFS.

[Actin The Sham]

so since the rvn transfer has ended, so has bayerns interest in selling hargreaves. this transfer is separate. no permission was given to utd to talk to him.

Permission was given for United to talk to him.

That permission cannot be retrospectively withdrawn, and the fact that he did talk to them ignored. The fact that the RVN deal did not go through is reflected in Sir Alex's comments that "it is up to Bayern now, and I can understand why they would want to hold on to the player."

Neither Sir Alex or United have done anything wrong over the past few weeks.

They have, correctly, accepted that it is up to Bayern to decide what to do.

[MonTheHoops]

Permission was given for United to talk to him.

That permission cannot be retrospectively withdrawn, and the fact that he did talk to them ignored. The fact that the RVN deal did not go through is reflected in Sir Alex's comments that "it is up to Bayern now, and I can understand why they would want to hold on to the player."

Neither Sir Alex or United have done anything wrong over the past few weeks.

They have, correctly, accepted that it is up to Bayern to decide what to do.


How can Bayern give permission without accepting a bid?

[homer jay]

Permission was given for United to talk to him.

That permission cannot be retrospectively withdrawn, and the fact that he did talk to them ignored. The fact that the RVN deal did not go through is reflected in Sir Alex's comments that "it is up to Bayern now, and I can understand why they would want to hold on to the player."

Neither Sir Alex or United have done anything wrong over the past few weeks.

They have, correctly, accepted that it is up to Bayern to decide what to do.

why can't permission be withdrawn? hargreaves is bayern's player. whether utd or fergusen have done anything wrong remains to be seen.

k-h rummenigge: "We have told Manchester United to drop their interest, or we will have to turn to FIFA. A club can only contact a player when the club, who owns the player's registration, is in agreement.

[Sound]

Mockery!



You Know Nothing About Pedantry.


FFS.

Another ball-shaver brought to task.

[Actin The Sham]

why can't permission be withdrawn?

There you go with your selective quoting again. The important word was "retrospectively."



Mockery!


You know nothing about constructing a rebuttal.



FFS.

[Actin The Sham]

Another ball-shaver brought to task.

Who are you, Imran Khan?


Mockery!




You know nothing about soccer, and even less, (if that was possible) about cricket.




FFS.

[Actin The Sham]

why can't permission be withdrawn? hargreaves is bayern's player. whether utd or fergusen have done anything wrong remains to be seen.

k-h rummenigge: "We have told Manchester United to drop their interest, or we will have to turn to FIFA. A club can only contact a player when the club, who owns the player's registration, is in agreement.


OK.


For the slow learners, (AKA the Tim Lovejoy Fan Club):


Back in May, Bayern Munich approached Manchester United with a view to signing Ruud Van Nistelrooy. During the course of those discussions, Sir Alex Ferguson enquired as to whether Owen Hargreaves would be available. (A la the Eric Cantona transfer from Leeds back in the early '90s). Bayern said this was a possibility subject to the player being happy, and agreed to allow United to discuss personal terms with the player.

Subsequently when Bayern and United couldn't come to an agreement which would equal RVN's value to Real Madrid, the deal for Hargreaves came unstuck.

Since then, all Sir Alex has done is said that he would still very much like it if Bayern Munich agreed to sell Hargreaves, and that he is still a big admirer of Hargreaves.

Hargreaves has gone on record as saying that he would love to play for United and that he wants to leave Bayern Munich.


These are the facts.



There was no "tapping up," and Manchester United are not guilty of any wrong doing.



In other words nothing was agreed until everything was agreed.

You know nothing about sensitive negotiations.


FFS.

[homer jay]

Mockery!


You know nothing about blah blah blah.



FFS.

repeat ad nauseum.

[Che Mourinho]

So if Rooney expressed a desire to leave United for say , Chelsea, do ya think That United would roll over and just say 'well If he wants to move , good luck to him ' I think not

No, I don't think United would say that, I said I would say that. What I would expect from United is to try and persuade him to stay and then if they didn't persuade him to and the player obviously wanted to leave for another club and that club met the valuation, then United would be better selling than keeping a player that didn't want to be there.

That's a shit example by the way, as United wouldn't sell Rooney to a rival like Chelsea for obvious reasons. Bayern don't compete in the same league, so United are less of a threat than Chelsea are to United in your example.

[Sound]

Who are you, Imran Khan?


Mockery!




You know nothing about soccer, and even less, (if that was possible) about cricket.




FFS.

Your action is suspect.

[FL4ZGN]

No, I don't think United would say that, I said I would say that. What I would expect from United is to try and persuade him to stay and then if they didn't persuade him to and the player obviously wanted to leave for another club and that club met the valuation, then United would be better selling than keeping a player that didn't want to be there.

That's a shit example by the way, as United wouldn't sell Rooney to a rival like Chelsea for obvious reasons. Bayern don't compete in the same league, so United are less of a threat than Chelsea are to United in your example.

Leeds United might have lodged a complaint about the alleged poaching of two of their best under-16 players, but it seems that Chelsea have been exhaustively attracting the best junior talent throughout Britain and beyond —whomever they play for.
Last year, they not only signed Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo from Leeds, but they also took a pair from Sporting Lisbon, four from Reading, one each from Luton Town, Stockport County, Bristol Rovers, Queens Park Rangers and Gillingham and two ten-year-olds from another senior club. Chelsea have recently sought the signature of Victor Moses, a 15-year-old with a soaring reputation at Crystal Palace, and are also in negotiations for a 13-year-old from Swindon Town.....

[Actin The Sham]

Leeds United might have lodged a complaint about the alleged poaching of two of their best under-16 players, but it seems that Chelsea have been exhaustively attracting the best junior talent throughout Britain and beyond —whomever they play for.
Last year, they not only signed Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo from Leeds, but they also took a pair from Sporting Lisbon, four from Reading, one each from Luton Town, Stockport County, Bristol Rovers, Queens Park Rangers and Gillingham and two ten-year-olds from another senior club. Chelsea have recently sought the signature of Victor Moses, a 15-year-old with a soaring reputation at Crystal Palace, and are also in negotiations for a 13-year-old from Swindon Town.....



Busby Babes


Fergie's Fledglings


Mourinho's Midgets?

[Actin The Sham]

repeat ad nauseum.


Mockery!



You know nothing about latin.




FFS.

[Che Mourinho]

Leeds United might have lodged a complaint about the alleged poaching of two of their best under-16 players, but it seems that Chelsea have been exhaustively attracting the best junior talent throughout Britain and beyond —whomever they play for.
Last year, they not only signed Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo from Leeds, but they also took a pair from Sporting Lisbon, four from Reading, one each from Luton Town, Stockport County, Bristol Rovers, Queens Park Rangers and Gillingham and two ten-year-olds from another senior club. Chelsea have recently sought the signature of Victor Moses, a 15-year-old with a soaring reputation at Crystal Palace, and are also in negotiations for a 13-year-old from Swindon Town.....


Not sure what your point is here, but the hypothetical situation of Chelsea bidding for Rooney, is not a good example in comparison with United' trying to sign Hargreaves, as United/Bayern aren't direct rivals, whereas United/Chelsea are. A major reason why Chelsea sold Duffer to Newcastle for peanuts, rather than Spurs or 'Pool.

[FL4ZGN]

Busby Babes


Fergie's Fledglings


Mourinho's Midgets?


Chelsea have the game ruined.

[Actin The Sham]

Chelsea have the game ruined.


We've heard it all before, down the years, Man Utd., Real Madrid, even Blackburn Rovers.


The game will be fine.

[homer jay]

For the slow learners, (AKA the Tim Lovejoy Fan Club):

oh, very good. by this you're implying i watch, and form my opinions form soccer AM. again, you're wrong.

Back in May, Bayern Munich approached Manchester United with a view to signing Ruud Van Nistelrooy. During the course of those discussions, Sir Alex Ferguson enquired as to whether Owen Hargreaves would be available. (A la the Eric Cantona transfer from Leeds back in the early '90s). Bayern said this was a possibility subject to the player being happy, and agreed to allow United to discuss personal terms with the player.

Subsequently when Bayern and United couldn't come to an agreement which would equal RVN's value to Real Madrid, the deal for Hargreaves came unstuck.

Since then, all Sir Alex has done is said that he would still very much like it if Bayern Munich agreed to sell Hargreaves, and that he is still a big admirer of Hargreaves.

Hargreaves has gone on record as saying that he would love to play for United and that he wants to leave Bayern Munich.


These are the facts.



There was no "tapping up," and Manchester United are not guilty of any wrong doing.



In other words nothing was agreed until everything was agreed.

You know nothing about sensitive negotiations.


FFS.

thats great work there. you may be right about utd not having done anything wrong, it remains to be seen. do you expect me to take your word for it.

you're moving away from the main point here i.e. utd fans (che m) expect bayern to roll over and sell, just because utd need a midfielder. bayern don't want to sell. the story should end here.

[FL4ZGN]

Not sure what your point is here, but the hypothetical situation of Chelsea bidding for Rooney, is not a good example in comparison with United' trying to sign Hargreaves, as United/Bayern aren't direct rivals, whereas United/Chelsea are. A major reason why Chelsea sold Duffer to Newcastle for peanuts, rather than Spurs or 'Pool.

No that is just bad business on the part of Chelsea, but to a club with a billionaire owner it doesnt appear to matter.

Damien Duff and Asier Del Horno were ushered out of Stamford Bridge for a combined fee of more than £15m less than Chelsea originally paid.

What if the departure of Hernan Crespo on a long-term loan suggests they will never see much of his £17m they paid for him? How about paying the £12m to United for a teenager who has never played at Old Trafford for a single second to disentangle John Obi Mikel from his contractual obligations?

In addition to Duff, Del Horno and Crespo, there was Adrian Mutu, Juan Sebastian Veron, Scott Parker, Alexei Smertin, Jiri Jarosik, and Tiago.

Now this is where comparison comes in, Look at the current situation with Hargreaves at Bayern and Gallas at Chelsea. Gallas has one year left on his contract, wants out, is only too keen to join Arsenal and has made a stand. All over the football world that is a guaranteed recipe for a transfer. But not at Chelsea. They can keep him as an exhibition of muscle flexing. If he leaves next summer for nothing on a Bosman, so be it.

[homer jay]

Mockery!



You know nothing about latin.




FFS.

:-|

[Actin The Sham]

oh, very good. by this you're implying i watch, and form my opinions form soccer AM. again, you're wrong.



thats great work there. you may be right about utd not having done anything wrong, it remains to be seen. do you expect me to take your word for it.

you're moving away from the main point here i.e. utd fans (che m) expect bayern to roll over and sell, just because utd need a midfielder. bayern don't want to sell. the story should end here.


You don't watch Soccer AM, yet you made the connection with Tim Lovejoy?

You say that the main point here is that utd fans (che m) expect Bayern to roll over?

Yet you fail to read I'm a Celtic fan, but I think Petrov was perfectly right to leave


Yet more selective reading.


I say again:


Know your limits.

FFS.

[homer jay]

You don't watch Soccer AM, yet you made the connection with Tim Lovejoy?

i didn't watch neighbours, but i knew kylie minogue was in it. your attempts at pedantry are demeaning you. let it go lad.

You say that the main point here is that utd fans (che m) expect Bayern to roll over?

Yet you fail to read


Yet more selective reading.


I say again:


Know your limits.

FFS.
are you his spokesman now or something? did you read this?

Go fuck yourselves Bayern, you're really starting to piss me off now. United badly need another midfielder and the player doesn't want to play for you smelly Germans anymore. He's been there for 9 years, I think they should be giving him the respect he's earned.

We all know that in Germany the employee holds all the power, just look at how shitty the German economy has been, partly because the unions are so resistant to giving uo their cushy 36 hour weeks.

Not only do I hope Hargreaves signs for United, but gives Rummenigge and Hoeness the two fingers on his way out. He hasn't done anything wrong, but those fuckers are trying to paint him as the villain!

if thats not the rant of a manc, i dunno what is.

[Actin The Sham]

i dunno.


At last.

An admission.

[homer jay]

At last.

An admission.

finally, you've had enough of taking back the sports forum for today.

[KolaKubes]

if thats not the rant of a manc, i dunno what is.

I do love the little generalisations about Utd fans.

Despite them being drawn from every walk of life largely at random.

Retarded.

The only thing most Utd fans have in common is a long history of vaguely attempting to engage in objective conversation with other fans and finding that (well, fuck me) most other fans aren't objective about Utd.

Case in point, Mr. Villa fan, Mr. Chelsea fan and Mr. Liverpool fan are chatting in a bar and decide that Rio Ferdinand is a useless cunt.

Mr. Utd fan comes along and disagrees with the useless bit and is lambasted for his typical Utd bias.

All this while NOONE is calling for the defensive genius that is jamie Carragher to be played in his place for dear old Blighty.

Retarded.

[Actin The Sham]

finally, you've had enough of taking back the sports forum for today.


Another failed assumption.


Although your admission that yes, indeed, you are a slow learner did warrant a smile:




For the slow learners, (AKA the Tim Lovejoy Fan Club):

To which you replied:


oh, very good. by this you're implying i watch, and form my opinions form soccer AM. again, you're wrong.



I never mentioned you.


Heh heh heh.

[homer jay]

I do love the little generalisations about Utd fans.

Despite them being drawn from every walk of life largely at random.

Retarded.

The only thing most Utd fans have in common is a long history of vaguely attempting to engage in objective conversation with other fans and finding that (well, fuck me) most other fans aren't objective about Utd.

Case in point, Mr. Villa fan, Mr. Chelsea fan and Mr. Liverpool fan are chatting in a bar and decide that Rio Ferdinand is a useless cunt.

Mr. Utd fan comes along and disagrees with the useless bit and is lambasted for his typical Utd bias.

All this while NOONE is calling for the defensive genius that is jamie Carragher to be played in his place for dear old Blighty.

Retarded.

retarded? nice, very nice.

[Sound]

I do love the little generalisations about Utd fans.

Despite them being drawn from every walk of life largely at random.

Retarded.

The only thing most Utd fans have in common is a long history of vaguely attempting to engage in objective conversation with other fans and finding that (well, fuck me) most other fans aren't objective about Utd.

Case in point, Mr. Villa fan, Mr. Chelsea fan and Mr. Liverpool fan are chatting in a bar and decide that Rio Ferdinand is a useless cunt.

Mr. Utd fan comes along and disagrees with the useless bit and is lambasted for his typical Utd bias.

All this while NOONE is calling for the defensive genius that is jamie Carragher to be played in his place for dear old Blighty.

Retarded.

All footie fans are partisan.

All footie fans think that their team's fans are objective. None of them are right.

[MonTheHoops]

Case in point, Mr. Villa fan, Mr. Chelsea fan and Mr. Liverpool fan are chatting in a bar and decide that Rio Ferdinand is a useless cunt.

Mr. Utd fan comes along and disagrees with the useless bit and is lambasted for his typical Utd bias.



If three fans of different teams can all agree on the pedigree of a player, and then in walks a fan of that players team and disagrees, then it's safe to say there may well be some form of bias involved.

I was almost bludgoned once when I mentioned that Luke Chadwick would not make it as a top flight player. And again when I suggested Josemi of Liverpool was rubbish. It's fair to say that blind bias often is in play.

[Actin The Sham]

All footie fans are partisan.

All footie fans think that their team's fans are objective. None of them are right.



Some more so then others, particularly those of Partisan Belgrade.

[homer jay]

Another failed assumption.

so you're here to stay then, great.


Although your admission that yes, indeed, you are a slow learner did warrant a smile:

wow, got me there.



I never mentioned you.


Heh heh heh.

WOW , got me there again. always one step ahead, how do you do it?

you did have a quote of mine just above your little speech. are you just randomly quoting people while dishing out the talk now?

[Actin The Sham]

Anyway, getting back to the transfer news.

Reports today are saying that United will offer £25 million for Carlos Tevez. I would imagine that seeing as the Carrick move was funded through the sale of Mikel to Chelsea and RVN to Real Madrid, that they have enough for Tevez and probably Senna and still have some left over.

David Gill hinted that they had a budget of £30 million for the Summer transfer market last May.

[Actin The Sham]

wow, got me there.





WOW , got me there again. always one step ahead, how do you do it?




To be honest, you no longer present much of a challenge.



(although your "nice" comeback to the retarded comment from KolaKubes was sublime)


Heh heh heh.

:)

[homer jay]

To be honest, you no longer present much of a challenge.

those were amateur set-ups, worthy of only a langer dan level of wumming. i thought you were better than that.

edit: i was wrong obviously, first time for everything ;)

[Actin The Sham]

i thought you were better.


For once you were right.


Re read this thread for proof.

[Actin The Sham]

those were amateur set-ups, worthy of only a langer dan level of wumming. i thought you were better than that.

edit: i was wrong obviously, first time for everything ;)


Heh heh heh....now it's got to the stage that my putdowns are even forcing you to go back and edit your earlier posts.



I mean this now more then ever:


Mockery!


FFS.

[homer jay]

For once you were right.


Re read this thread for proof.

nah, i'll just wait for the LD version, much more entertaining.

[KolaKubes]

All footie fans are partisan.

All footie fans think that their team's fans are objective. None of them are right.

Well, I regularly get lectured to about having a blind spot for Utd by the likes of my Liverpool supporting brother and I'm like "Duh".

Are Utd fans unusually partisan? Maybe. Not helped by being battered from all angles, the old seige mentality kicks in.

[homer jay]

Heh heh heh....now it's got to the stage that my putdowns are even forcing you to go back and edit your earlier posts.



I mean this now more then ever:


Mockery!


FFS.

:roll: it was a joke ffs, chill will ya

[Actin The Sham]

much more entertaining.

If it's entertainment you want, I could send you the highlights of the Manchester United V Fulham game from last Sunday.

[homer jay]

If it's entertainment you want, I could send you the highlights of the Manchester United V Fulham game from last Sunday.

do

[Che Mourinho]

if thats not the rant of a manc, i dunno what is.

Lads, FFS chill. I'm a Man Utd and a Celtic fan, but that's besides the point, you were both right!!

Anyway, I didn't say Bayern should roll over and die, but threatening to bring in FIFA is a bit fucking much. They should try and persuade their player to stay and tell them how much of a better club they think Bayern is as opposed to United. But, if the player wants to leave, they should at least open discussions with him, instead of saying that he should shut his mouth (Hoeness said something like that).

I maybe a partisan United fan, but this is a thread about Man Utd transfer news, so I feel it's the right place to have a rant!!

[Actin The Sham]

do


OK

[homer jay]

OK

i look forward to it then

[Del]

Anyway, getting back to the transfer news.

Reports today are saying that United will offer £25 million for Carlos Tevez. I would imagine that seeing as the Carrick move was funded through the sale of Mikel to Chelsea and RVN to Real Madrid, that they have enough for Tevez and probably Senna and still have some left over.

David Gill hinted that they had a budget of £30 million for the Summer transfer market last May.

It would be great if it could happen but I have my doubts

[Actin The Sham]

i look forward to it then

You should, it's very good.

[Del]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!! !!!!!!!!!

[Actin The Sham]

It would be great if it could happen but I have my doubts


Which would you prefer: Hargreaves on his own for £25 Million or something, or Carlos Tevez and Senna for £29 million?


I can't see the Hargreaves thing happening to be honest, and I think I'd prefer the Tevez & Senna deal now.

[Sound]

Which would you prefer: Hargreaves on his own for £25 Million or something, or Carlos Tevez and Senna for £29 million?


I can't see the Hargreaves thing happening to be honest, and I think I'd prefer the Tevez & Senna deal now.

Does anyone really think that Utd are going to spend £45M in transfers this Summer?

Really?

[Actin The Sham]

Does anyone really think that Utd are going to spend £45M in transfers this Summer?

Really?


No.


They haven't spent anything yet.

The funds they received for Mikel and RVN more then covered their outlay on Carrick and that keeper with the name that I can't spell.

Net outlay is about minus £2mill.

[FL4ZGN]

Does anyone really think that Utd are going to spend £45M in transfers this Summer?

Really?


30 million tranfer budget with 25 million on top of that for RVN & Mikel.
Adds up to 55 million in my book but like yourself i cannot see it being spent.

[Sound]

No.


They haven't spent anything yet.

The funds they received for Mikel and RVN more then covered their outlay on Carrick and that keeper with the name that I can't spell.

Net outlay is about minus £2mill.

True enough. But the Tevez thing sounds pretty far fetched. As I said all along, If Utd get Hargreaves as well, it will have been a good summer's dealings.

[Langer Dan]

Does anyone really think that Utd are going to spend £45M in transfers this Summer?

Really?

Nope, We're fucked basically.

The sums dont allow for it.
The level of debt united are servicing does not allow for huge outlays. The banks would want to be mental to allow it. And make no mistake, its the banks calling the shots at Old Trafford.

As they did last year United are just balancing the books and trimming the wage bill.

[Actin The Sham]

30 million tranfer budget with 25 million on top of that for RVN & Mikel.
Adds up to 55 million in my book but like yourself i cannot see it being spent.


That's the problem, every agent in football knows that they have that money available hence every footballers price goes up when United declare an interest.


To think they could have got Carrick for £2.75 million off West Ham.

And they could have got Hargreaves on a free six or seven months ago.


Sir Alex seems to be bowing to pressure from public opinion, which is worrying.

Still, I expect at least one big money signing before the end of August.

I'd like to see him play Rossi ahead of Solksjaer though, Ole looked past it on Sunday.

And maybe give David Jones a run.

[FL4ZGN]

That's the problem, every agent in football knows that they have that money available hence every footballers price goes up when United declare an interest.


To think they could have got Carrick for £2.75 million off West Ham.

And they could have got Hargreaves on a free six or seven months ago.


Sir Alex seems to be bowing to pressure from public opinion, which is worrying.

Still, I expect at least one big money signing before the end of August.

I'd like to see him play Rossi ahead of Solksjaer though, Ole looked past it on Sunday.

And maybe give David Jones a run.


Either of Hargreaves or Senna will do for me although age wise i would prefer Hargreaves. Smith will play a lot more games up front this term and has made a remarkable recovery since the injury against the pool back in Feb.

In my opinion we need to start looking for replacement for Neville, Giggs & Scholes. Okay i understand we may have that with Carrig, Bardsley/Brown & Richardson but there are a lot of players coming through so like you said already One big signing before the end of August should do the trick.

Personally i dont think there is a need for Tevez, i honestly think that if the wizzard was going to buy another striker then he would have sent Rossi out on loan.

[KolaKubes]

The thing is, I reckon the Glazers are going to be fortunate. Fergie's fledglings Mk III are going to save them a fortune. (well, if they were ever going to spend that kind of cash)

It is rather bizarre that even taking the unlikely max that the Carrick fee will reach of 18.6m, Utd have had a net saving of a few million this summer while trimming the wage bill considerably in the past 12 months.

At least we can't be accused of buying the league at any rate in the unlikely scenario that we won it.

[Actin The Sham]

Either of Hargreaves or Senna will do for me although age wise i would prefer Hargreaves. Smith will play a lot more games up front this term and has made a remarkable recovery since the injury against the pool back in Feb.

In my opinion we need to start looking for replacement for Neville, Giggs & Scholes. Okay i understand we may have that with Carrig, Bardsley/Brown & Richardson but there are a lot of players coming through so like you said already One big signing before the end of August should do the trick.

Personally i dont think there is a need for Tevez, i honestly think that if the wizzard was going to buy another striker then he would have sent Rossi out on loan.



I just saw on a fans forum that Bayern have been "monitoring" Tevez. So maybe this is a ploy on United's part. The Wizzard is nothing if not shrewd: maybe he's going to say to Bayern, "OK, sell us Hargreaves and we'll back off from Tevez," or something like that, or maybe he is genuinely interested in Tevez now. You have to feel sorry for Senna in all of this though. He's really being made to feel wanted.

[KolaKubes]

You have to feel sorry for Senna in all of this though. He's really being made to feel wanted.

It's not a teen movie. I'm sure the big signing on fee and nobbing a few of Rio's cast offs his first night out in Manchester will salve his wounded pride!

[Actin The Sham]

It's not a teen movie. I'm sure the big signing on fee and nobbing a few of Rio's cast offs his first night out in Manchester will salve his wounded pride!


I got this on e-mail from a buddy of mine who posts on a United Forum. It's a transcript of what Sir Alex will say in his post match interview at the Valley tomorrow night:

Steve Bower of MUTV: "So Sir Alex, any updates on the transfer situation?"

Sir Alex: "We're looking at one or two things, one of them is the Hargreaves deal but it's very difficult, I'm leaving it to David Gill. However, If nothing happens then I've got a great squad of players, we've Carrick to come back too, so I'm not worried if the window closes and I have this squad"

Which translates as:

"We're working on one or two thing, one of them is the Hargreaves deal, but I think we've annoyed Bayern and they have less midfielders than us, so a deal looks unlikely. If I can't get Owen I don't know what to do, we've missed out on Senna now, and Diarra wasn't interested. I suppose I have to get Joey Barton or Moukon or something, that'll have to do, let's face it, anything is better than John O'Shea. If I go into the season with this midfield I think we're fucked in big games, the only backup I have for O'Shea is Miller and that's a fucking joke"


*****

[FL4ZGN]

I just saw on a fans forum that Bayern have been "monitoring" Tevez. So maybe this is a ploy on United's part. The Wizzard is nothing if not shrewd: maybe he's going to say to Bayern, "OK, sell us Hargreaves and we'll back off from Tevez," or something like that, or maybe he is genuinely interested in Tevez now. You have to feel sorry for Senna in all of this though. He's really being made to feel wanted.


Something may have happened behind the scenes with Senna IMHO.

One more midfield player and we should be well sorted for the season.

The squad will be well balanced with a mixture of youth and experience throughout,similar to what it was in 95/96 but we are possibly a season to early to create a similar feat than that team.

In almost every position there is quality young player biting at the bit to relace the first teamer. We should see most of these youngsters emerge over the next season or two.

The future in terms of the squad has not looked this good in a years.

Keep the faith.

[KolaKubes]

Something may have happened behind the scenes with Senna IMHO.

One more midfield player and we should be well sorted for the season.

The squad will be well balanced with a mixture of youth and experience throughout,similar to what it was in 95/96 but we are possibly a season to early to create a similar feat than that team.

In almost every position there is quality young player biting at the bit to relace the first teamer. We should see most of these youngsters emerge over the next season or two.

The future in terms of the squad has not looked this good in a years.

Keep the faith.

I'm driving extra carefully at the moment, watching my cholesterol, I simply have to see this team mature.

Plus, I'm going to relax my rules on schadenfreude for the Chelsea meltdown too.

Might even buy a chunk of the pitch when they sell it off. ;)

[FL4ZGN]

Plus, I'm going to relax my rules on schadenfreude for the Chelsea meltdown too.

Might even buy a chunk of the pitch when they sell it off. ;)


Keep your money biy.

[Del]

Personally I wouldn´t like to see United pay 15m plus for Hargreaves, is he really any better than P. Neville? I haven´t really seen him play much but I would rather they get Senna for a fraction of the cost.

[FL4ZGN]

HARGREAVES TO PLEAD FOR EARLY RELEASE

Owen Hargreaves will today attempt to put his case for a move to Manchester United after Bayern Munich threatened to appeal to Fifa to force the Old Trafford club to end their pursuit of the England midfielder. Hargreaves and his advisors have arranged a press briefing in Munich this afternoon at which he is expected to both demand a move and criticise his current employers' persistent refusal to sanction one.

United's progress with the Canada-born player has ground to a halt in recent days with Bayern refusing to even discuss selling him. But Hargreaves, who still has four years left to run on his contract at the Allianz Arena, is now more determined than ever to move to Manchester.

Hargreaves was left out of Bayern's squad for the 2-1 Bundesliga defeat to Bochum on Sunday, officially because of a virus, and was then omitted for a friendly against Barcelona on Monday.
Bayern's determination to involve Fifa has been fuelled by reports of Hargreaves having face-to-face talks with Sir Alex Ferguson at United's training ground the morning after England's friendly against Greece. The saga could also have damaging repercussions for Hargreaves's standing at Bayern if he is forced to stay in Germany, with a notable hardening in the language used by the club's hierarchy.

Senior officials at Bayern say they feel let down by his behaviour and, in particular, his public declaration that he wanted to move to Old Trafford, despite having recently signed a contract extension. They have ordered him not to make any further comments and re-iterated that he will not get his way.

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, Bayern's president, summed up that anger yesterday by saying United should now cease all interest in the 25-year-old. "Otherwise we will turn to Fifa," he told the Munich-based TZ newspaper. "The rules are that a club may contact a player only when the club holding his contract agrees to it."

United have run into trouble on this front before, most notably when they signed Ruud van Nistelrooy from PSV Eindhoven in April 2000. Of more immediate concern to Ferguson, however, is the fact that Bayern have given no indication to suggest their position might alter before the transfer deadline tomorrow week. Ferguson had been led to believe last week that there had been a breakthrough in the talks but Bayern seem to have decided they cannot afford to sell Hargreaves, even for ?17m, in a summer that has already seen them lose Michael Ballack on a free transfer to Chelsea.

"We have told Manchester United that they should stop trying to tempt Hargreaves," said Rummenigge. "We are not Hamburg, who decided to sell Khalid Boulahrouz [to Chelsea] the moment they had an offer for him. We are FC Bayern Munich, and we don't give in to anybody. At this club, it is the employer who decides what happens, not the employee."

Uli Hoeness, Bayern's general manager, was equally vehement. "Bayern Munich will never be taken for a ride and become weak at the knees as soon as a certain level of money is mentioned," he said.

Alan Smith has ruled out the possibility of an early return to action for United. Smith came through his first public workout on Monday since his double leg-break at Liverpool in February, appearing for the first 66 minutes of a 7-2 reserve-team win over Preston North End.

Smith's return prompted discussion over the possibility of him making the bench for Saturday's Premiership match against Watford but the 25-year-old admits he is not yet ready. "Playing for the reserves is a step up from training and hopefully, in a few weeks' time I will have had some more reserve games and then be able to make the step up to the first team," said Smith.

[citdjsociety]

Personally I wouldn´t like to see United pay 15m plus for Hargreaves, is he really any better than P. Neville? I haven´t really seen him play much but I would rather they get Senna for a fraction of the cost.


Problem with that is Senna is getting on and Hargreves is only 25 , if Senna is bought in two year's were back to sq 1

[STEVIEG]

is he really any better than P. Neville?


yes, though the price is very hefty but he will make them better

[Up For The Ba]

Which would you prefer: Hargreaves on his own for £25 Million or something, or Carlos Tevez and Senna for £29 million?


I can't see the Hargreaves thing happening to be honest, and I think I'd prefer the Tevez & Senna deal now.

I`m with you on that concept, but not necessarily on the personnel. Tevez is quite similar to Rooney, he`s a great player but i`m not sure he`s whats needed. I cant understand how noboby has approached Ajax for Huntelaar. I know he only signed for them last year, but lets face it, the Dutch league is very poor and this guy looks like he has a lot of potential.

With regard to Senna, I think United have shot themselves in the foot, the player cant have been happy about the whole situation and club representitives were quoted as saying "We never wish to speak to them again" - talking about United obviously.

Hargreaves is over priced, but if United have spend £17m to fill in a huge gap then so be it. This press conference should be interesting to say the least.

[STEVIEG]

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=41164 1&CPID=22&clid=156&lid=4161&title=Fergie+rues+'n ightmare'+saga


Well at least the player wants to come to United
Not sure if it will happen to be honest but Its hard to symphatise with a German team who regularly poach the best players in Germany without as much as a shrug of the shoulders

[Up For The Ba]

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=41164 1&CPID=22&clid=156&lid=4161&title=Fergie+rues+'n ightmare'+saga


Well at least the player wants to come to United
Not sure if it will happen to be honest but Its hard to symphatise with a German team who regularly poach the best players in Germany without as much as a shrug of the shoulders

Good point.

[KolaKubes]

With regard to Senna, I think United have shot themselves in the foot, the player cant have been happy about the whole situation and club representitives were quoted as saying "We never wish to speak to them again" - talking about United obviously.

Hargreaves is over priced,

Ya but it sounds like Senna was even more overpriced for a 30 year old. Just because he's less money that Hargreaves doesn't make him better value for money.

[Up For The Ba]

Ya but it sounds like Senna was even more overpriced for a 30 year old. Just because he's less money that Hargreaves doesn't make him better value for money.

£4m for an international midfielder, even at 30 is not outrageous. Thats what I believe United were prepared to pay. Vieira moved for more than that didnt he?

[STEVIEG]

Twice as much


Either way United are gonna take it up the ass cash wise but who cares as long as they get someone

[FL4ZGN]

Twice as much


Either way United are gonna take it up the ass cash wise but who cares as long as they get someone


The banks?

[STEVIEG]

of my own lovely Lee

[Paddy Wagon]

Where We Sported And Played.

[Che Mourinho]

'Neath the green leafy shade

[STEVIEG]

Good therapy to get us through the transfer window!

[KolaKubes]

£4m for an international midfielder, even at 30 is not outrageous. Thats what I believe United were prepared to pay. Vieira moved for more than that didnt he?

£4m is what Utd wanted to pay. Apparently Villarreal were looking for more than that though.

None of this stuff can reasonably be followed through the press.

I'm still astonished at how readily Carrick has had an £18.6m (that's if it's not rounded up to £19m) price tag put on his head when even Spurs' cute hoor statement specifically included the words "up to £18.6m". When Utd came out a few days later and said they were playing a flat £14m with the rest performance-related, it was largely ignored.

It's not a trifling detail as some players' cause mightn't be helped by having an additional £4.5m added to their price tag.

Ferdinand is still a £30m defender even though Utd settled for about £23m with Leeds there last year when the wolves were at their door.

Rooney cost a flat £20m with the rest performance related.

Veron, sadly, cost every penny of the £28m wasted on him!

Seriously though, I'm particularly suspicious of the agenda of the English sports media these days.

Read how News International's rags covered the John Obi Mikel story and "settling" thereof, quite bizarrely disinterested in the giant stink surrounding it. I even noticed they are continuing to report that Chelsea paid Lyn Oslo £12m for his services when everyone knows that this was the figure used to buy off Utd. In fact, the player cost Chelsea £16m, £4m also going to Oslo.

Honestly, when, at this stage, MUTV comes across as being home to unusually frank critiques of its own players compared to salivating coverage "star" players get on Sky and the BBC, you know you have a problem.

And MUTV is still positively Pravda-esque.

[ho chi feen]

If Hoeness and Bayern felt so strrong about this they wouldn't have given permission to United to talk to Hargreaves and vice versa

He has obviously talked to United and "tapping-up" hasn't been mentioned so either Bayern are just trying to drive up his price or they are trying to save face with their fans

I could still see United messing up the deal though, but I hope they get one more player before the end of next week


"Tapping up" is only an offence in English football, there's no such law in other European leagues. Am I right here? I claimed it was an offence last year on here and got taken to task over it, so I'm pretty sure now that it isn't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ho chi feen]

"A club may only contact a player if that player's own club gives its permission.


Hmm, okay.

[ho chi feen]

why is it a load of bollox? they haven't given utd permission to talk to hargreaves, so if they have, thats tapping-up!

if a team came in for van der sar (or any other important player at utd), do you think utd would cave in and sell, just because that team 'badly need a goalie'? i think not. bayern obviously want to keep hargreaves for the team.

Real tapped Beckham up because they 'badly needed a shirt-seller',. He wanted to leave, and so he was sold. Probably for less than we should gotten too (not for his footballing prowess, but for his marketing value- especially as Real weren't going to let him retain his image rights as United had done).

It happens. Deal with it.

[ho chi feen]

If it's entertainment you want, I could send you the highlights of the Manchester United V Fulham game from last Sunday.

Haven't seem 'em yet, got a link?

[xvis]

Haven't seem 'em yet, got a link?

goals are here la..

http://soccerlens.com/manchester-united-5-1-fulham-goal-videos/2219511.html

[KolaKubes]

You can't tap up a player from another European Club. It's a Premiership rule.

How did I forget that one?!

[ho chi feen]

You can't tap up a player from another European Club. It's a Premiership rule.

How did I forget that one?!

Yeah thought so.

As I said, I got taken to task for that last year, and I was left in no doubt afterwards.

[storysham]

Rio has a broken toe. thats a bollocks.

Plus i now have a forced transfer for my FF team

gah

[Papa Smurf]

Rio by all acounts has gotten the all clear on the toe. No fracture found, thank god because I dont trust anybody else to do his job at the moment for Man U.

Van Bommell has also come out and said that he is moving to Bayern as a direct replacement for Hargreaves.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=41265 2&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=Van+Bommel+mak es+Owen+claim

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

When is the transfer deadline actually?

[Up For The Ba]

When is the transfer deadline actually?

Thursday.

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

Harry Rednapp will surely sign some past it foreigner at the "11th hour".

[Rebelred]

Rio by all acounts has gotten the all clear on the toe. No fracture found, thank god because I dont trust anybody else to do his job at the moment for Man U.

Van Bommell has also come out and said that he is moving to Bayern as a direct replacement for Hargreaves.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=41265 2&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=Van+Bommel+mak es+Owen+claim
then Bayern come out and say that they want Hargreaves and van Bommel on the same team.Are they just being stubborn?

[singular]

from their point of view,wouldnt you want them on the same team?i hope it does pave the way for Hargreaves to come to Old Trafford,only a few days left to find out!

[dotty]

then Bayern come out and say that they want Hargreaves and van Bommel on the same team.Are they just being stubborn?

some german journalist on SSN this morning confirmed this as well,expect a last minute 30m+ bid from OT...

[Langer Dan]

The Times reports that the Old Trafford club have 'reluctantly abandoned' their pursuit of the Bayern Munich midfielder. 'While the player and Sir Alex Ferguson, the United manager, retain a slight hope things could change over the next 24 hours, the United board have all but conceded defeat.'

While The Times suggest that 'Nigel Reo-Coker, the West Ham United captain, and Aldo Duscher, of Deportivo La Coruña' are being considered as possible alternatives, The Sun claims that 'Javier Maschernano has emerged as a deadline-beating target for Manchester United.'

The midfielder is also said to be interesting Roma after falling out with Brazilian side Corinthians and going AWOL

[singular]

apparently they're close to a deal for Tevez,25mil or something like that,but dont know how true it is.

[Actin The Sham]

apparently they're close to a deal for Tevez,25mil or something like that,but dont know how true it is.

I'd say he'll end up at Arsenal.

[Langer Dan]

I'd say he'll end up at Arsenal.

Looks that way.

[Paddy Wagon]

Id say he'll end up on Broadway playing Quazimodo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame

[Langer Dan]

Id say he'll end up on Broadway playing Quazimodo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame

What are the odds?

[Paddy Wagon]

What are the odds?
Ill give ya 10/1 on Tevez with Ribery as his stand by...

[Philby]

He's a fine player and a good addition to the squad
One more midfielder now and United could be compettive again

Tick....Tock....

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

******************** ******************** ****************
Newcastle United have agreed a shock loan swoop for Manchester United's young striker Giuseppe Rossi.

The Italian youth international is highly-rated at Old Trafford and had been expected to make an impact on the United first team during the coming campaign after the sale of Ruud van Nistelrooy to Real Madrid.

Indeed, Ferguson refused to allow the American-born Rossi to move to West Bromwich Albion as part of the deal that saw Tomasz Kuszczak join The Red Devils.

However, Glenn Roeder's Magpies have now managed to convince Ferguson that Rossi's interests will be best served at St James' Park in a loan move until January.

"It was a big decision for us, especially as we don't have the choice of strikers," Ferguson told United's official website.

"But this is something that Giuseppe wanted, as he needs regular first-team football.

"When he returns, he will be a more experienced player who will be able to offer us much more."

Despite signing Obafemi Martins from Internazionale, Newcastle were still keen to reinforce their attack after seeing Alan Shearer retire and Michael Owen pick up a serious injury during this summer's World Cup.

The capture of Rossi will be seen as another coup for the club who signed Damien Duff from Chelsea over the summer, and the Italian forward, who has been prolific in Ferguson's reserve ranks, will look to serve notice of his great potential at St James' Park over the coming four months.
******************** ******************** ******************

Good move, makes sense for the young lad to be getting hopefully first team football against premiership defences. Just hope he doesn't do a Owen, or a martins.

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

football365.com

******************** ******************** ********************
Manchester United are not expected to make any new signings before the transfer window closes on Thursday after Sir Alex Ferguson effectively conceded defeat in his attempts to sign Owen Hargreaves.

Bayern Munich have blocked United's efforts to bring the England midfielder to Old Trafford, and after the club's 100% start to the season Ferguson is not anxious for other new blood.

It is also understood that the United manager will not move for French striker David Trezeguet, who is desperate to leave Juventus.

Hargreaves, meanwhile, has not endeared himself to his Bayern team-mates by expressing his desire to move to United despite only a few months ago having signed a new contract to stay in Munich until 2010.

Bayern goalkeeper Oliver Kahn said the Canadian-born midfielder should concentrate on his career in Germany.

"You cannot just sign a new three or four-year contract and then disappear at the first opportunity," Kahn told DSF television.

"You have got to be professional, perform as best you can, show a reaction and give it 100%.

"After all, football is not a concert in which you get to pick your favourite songs."

Kahn has also commended his club for standing firm against the interest from Manchester United.

He added: "We want to reach our aims and we need all the good players we have got.

"We would definitely be ill-advised to give a player like Owen Hargreaves to our rivals like Manchester, AC Milan and the other big teams.

[singular]

nice one Fergie, loan out a striker on the last day the windows open when we need to be signing another player.i know Rossi needs experience but we're fucked if we get injuries.especially if we actually want to mount a serious challenge in both the champions league and the premiership.

[Paddy Wagon]

Well it just shows Fergie & Gill were spouting shit during the Jan window '' the players we want wont be available until the summer''

[singular]

what ever happened to the Senna situation?

[Actin The Sham]

what ever happened to the Senna situation?


He hit a wall at 170 MPH on the tamburello curve during the San Marino Grand Prix at Immola.


By the way, Teves and Mascherano or whatever the fuck his name is have both signed for West Ham from Corinthians on a year long loan deal.


Allegedly.

[Langer Dan]

Well it just shows Fergie & Gill were spouting shit during the Jan window '' the players we want wont be available until the summer''

Shur Iv been saying this for months.

All united have done is made a profit on the summer transfer window.

Mockery.

[Up For The Ba]

He hit a wall at 170 MPH on the tamburello curve during the San Marino Grand Prix at Immola.


.

No need for that whatsoever.

[KolaKubes]

All united have done is made a profit on the summer transfer window.


I wouldn't mind it so much if he was going to give the youngsters a chance but what it really means is ordinary "experienced" players getting the run out in their stead.

It's a fucking joke.

We went for Hargreaves because we needed further strengthening in the position, that still holds now that transfer has fallen through.

Utd should not be "making do" with it's huge squad of defenders and no midfielders, it'll bite us on the ass again this year when it comes to the CL for starters.

You need quality there more than any other position on the park.

The only thing that will make this worse is if we make a big late bid for a fucking striker when Ruud is no loss and we are not and will not struggle for goals this year.

Where we'll struggle is when Ballack is ghosting past the fat cunt O'Shea to clinch victory for the Russian franchise at Old Trafford this year.

[Actin The Sham]

I wouldn't mind it so much if he was going to give the youngsters a chance but what it really means is ordinary "experienced" players getting the run out in their stead.

It's a fucking joke.

We went for Hargreaves because we needed further strengthening in the position, that still holds now that transfer has fallen through.

Utd should not be "making do" with it's huge squad of defenders and no midfielders, it'll bite us on the ass again this year when it comes to the CL for starters.

You need quality there more than any other position on the park.

The only thing that will make this worse is if we make a big late bid for a fucking striker when Ruud is no loss and we are not and will not struggle for goals this year.

Where we'll struggle is when Ballack is ghosting past the fat cunt O'Shea to clinch victory for the Russian franchise at Old Trafford this year.


Have faith. The manager knows what he's doing. They need Manchester United players, not players who go AWOL like those two that the Hammers have rented off MSI.

He will never sign a player for the sake of it, and some of his most inspired signings have come out of the blue.

[Papa Smurf]

No need for that whatsoever.

Agreed. Ayrton Senna is and was a sporting legend. RIP

[Actin The Sham]

Louis Saha is treading on dangerous ground, although with Rossi gone to Newcastle he could probably call Sir Alex "Old Purplenose" or something to his face and get away with it, but with comments like these, he could be next out the door:


From the Guardian:

Louis Saha has broken ranks and become the first Manchester United player to question Sir Alex Ferguson's decision to sell Ruud van Nistelrooy. The Premiership's early pacesetters have scored 10 goals in their opening three league games but Saha voiced doubts whether it was a sound piece of business to offload a player whom he described as "being capable of scoring 40 goals in one season".

Privately several of Ferguson's other players are also thought to be disappointed by the club's apparent inability to sign a new striker before today's transfer deadline. Saha, however, is alone in publicly questioning the wisdom of offloading one of Europe's most prolific goalscorers.

“When you lose a player of van Nistelrooy's stature, I don't think that giving him to Real Madrid is a good move. It's not a good thing when you consider that we may have to face Madrid at one point or another.

“It is true that his departure will certainly allow me to play a little bit more and I take Sir Alex Ferguson's trust in me as a compliment. However, I have always done my best whether Ruud is there or not.”

Those comments are unlikely to go down well with Ferguson, who had decided that Van Nistelrooy was a player in decline and fell out with him towards the end of last season about his attitude in training.

Ferguson is not accustomed to having his decisions criticised by his players and may feel compelled to ask Saha for an explanation when the French forward returns to the club at the end of the international break.


*****

[Langer Dan]

that was on the teletext yesterday.

[Paddy Wagon]

It was on the Beeb website the day before...

[singular]

Midfielder Chris Eagles gone on loan to Dutch team NEC Nijmegan for four months.I know it could be good for him and the team in the long term (and its not like we'll miss him in the first team),but really,all Utd's dealings today seem a bit backward.

[KolaKubes]

As of midnight tonight, Utd are officially a selling club.

If the PLC had failed in this manner Ferguson would be spitting fire, if Ferguson fails to come out and lambast the new regime for failing to bring in the midfield reinforcements required then he's officially not arsed about competing for the title this year.

Though we've made a good start for that automatic CL spot...

[Otto_the_bus_driver]

Harry Rednapp will surely sign some past it foreigner at the "11th hour".

Man City striker Andrew Cole joins Portsmouth on a two-year contract.

Hajduk Split midfielder Niko Kranjcar has signed a four-year deal with Premiership side Portsmouth.

What is it about Harry Redknapp and transfer deadline day?

[Actin The Sham]

As of midnight tonight, Utd are officially a selling club.

If the PLC had failed in this manner Ferguson would be spitting fire, if Ferguson fails to come out and lambast the new regime for failing to bring in the midfield reinforcements required then he's officially not arsed about competing for the title this year.

Though we've made a good start for that automatic CL spot...


This from UWS:


WHERE ARE THE NEW SIGNINGS ?

By MUST
Date: 1/9/2006

MUST statement 1 September 2006 The transfer window has closed and United has bought only one new player - Michael Carrick at £18.6m. United fans are rightly asking - where are the 'two world-class midfielders' that Gill promised before the World Cup started?

Why have we not replaced Ruud?

United's summer's transfer fund should have been around £40 million. The Glazers promised an annual £25m in their business plan; United received £6m received from Chelsea for Obi Mikel, and £10m from Real Madrid for Ruud.
And this is the second season in a row under the Glazers where spending has fallen well short of the promised budget.

In fact, United is the lowest PL net spender this summer - the club has made a profit of around £4m on transfers. Carrick cost an initial £14m, while the sales of Obi Mikel, Spector and van Nistelrooy have brought in around £18.

This news comes at a time when United are claiming record revenues - the new
sponsorship deal, new capacity at Old Trafford, and another huge hike in season ticket prices. The United team, while looking good in early season, is basically the same as last year minus a world class striker and with three long-term injury returnees, Scholes, Smith and Heinze. The fans are right to feel let down that there has been only one new signing - but who's
to blame for this?

Some would say the embarrassing transfer shambles this summer is Gill and
Ferguson's fault - the money was there but they failed to spend it. MUST believes there's another reason, which Gill and Ferguson are having to take the fall for. That the money for big signings just isn't there anymore.

The Glazers refinanced the club's debts earlier this summer. The fees owed to the banks and hedge funds for arranging this deal are thought to be around £35-40m which would have been payable immediately. The Glazers would
have sent this bill to the club to pay from its cashflow, rather than dip into their own pockets. So, no transfer pot - the well is dry.

This is confirmed by reports of United making low offers on many players, inviting instant rejection from selling clubs. It has happened too often to be coincidence, but it does give the appearance of frantic activity. And any
sizeable offers we have made have also clearly been rejected. The club does not appear to be as attractive as it once was to world-class players, even cheap Italian ones - we know we can't compete with Chelsea, but is our wage
structure now uncompetitive with other clubs too?

This lack of funds to enhance the team with quality expensive players like Rooney has only happened since the Glazers' unpopular and debt-driven takeover of our club. The debt, which now stands at £660m, costing the club
£62m a year in interest, is a drain which is clearly having a negative effect on team building, despite apparent revenue increases.

MUST has been predicting this for some time now. We agreed with Louis Saha this week when he said that the squad is weaker without van Nistlerooy and no replacement. We don't like to see what's happening to our club, but it's
becoming clear to all fans that United will struggle to compete at the highest level while the debts in the club are still at such mountainous levels.

Joel Glazer promised on MUTV to talk to the fans once the takeover was completed. We've heard nothing from them. The fans deserve an explanation.


*****

Good article.

[Langer Dan]

This from UWS:


WHERE ARE THE NEW SIGNINGS ?

By MUST
Date: 1/9/2006

MUST statement 1 September 2006 The transfer window has closed and United has bought only one new player - Michael Carrick at £18.6m. United fans are rightly asking - where are the 'two world-class midfielders' that Gill promised before the World Cup started?

Why have we not replaced Ruud?

United's summer's transfer fund should have been around £40 million. The Glazers promised an annual £25m in their business plan; United received £6m received from Chelsea for Obi Mikel, and £10m from Real Madrid for Ruud.
And this is the second season in a row under the Glazers where spending has fallen well short of the promised budget.

In fact, United is the lowest PL net spender this summer - the club has made a profit of around £4m on transfers. Carrick cost an initial £14m, while the sales of Obi Mikel, Spector and van Nistelrooy have brought in around £18.

This news comes at a time when United are claiming record revenues - the new
sponsorship deal, new capacity at Old Trafford, and another huge hike in season ticket prices. The United team, while looking good in early season, is basically the same as last year minus a world class striker and with three long-term injury returnees, Scholes, Smith and Heinze. The fans are right to feel let down that there has been only one new signing - but who's
to blame for this?

Some would say the embarrassing transfer shambles this summer is Gill and
Ferguson's fault - the money was there but they failed to spend it. MUST believes there's another reason, which Gill and Ferguson are having to take the fall for. That the money for big signings just isn't there anymore.

The Glazers refinanced the club's debts earlier this summer. The fees owed to the banks and hedge funds for arranging this deal are thought to be around £35-40m which would have been payable immediately. The Glazers would
have sent this bill to the club to pay from its cashflow, rather than dip into their own pockets. So, no transfer pot - the well is dry.

This is confirmed by reports of United making low offers on many players, inviting instant rejection from selling clubs. It has happened too often to be coincidence, but it does give the appearance of frantic activity. And any
sizeable offers we have made have also clearly been rejected. The club does not appear to be as attractive as it once was to world-class players, even cheap Italian ones - we know we can't compete with Chelsea, but is our wage
structure now uncompetitive with other clubs too?

This lack of funds to enhance the team with quality expensive players like Rooney has only happened since the Glazers' unpopular and debt-driven takeover of our club. The debt, which now stands at £660m, costing the club
£62m a year in interest, is a drain which is clearly having a negative effect on team building, despite apparent revenue increases.

MUST has been predicting this for some time now. We agreed with Louis Saha this week when he said that the squad is weaker without van Nistlerooy and no replacement. We don't like to see what's happening to our club, but it's
becoming clear to all fans that United will struggle to compete at the highest level while the debts in the club are still at such mountainous levels.

Joel Glazer promised on MUTV to talk to the fans once the takeover was completed. We've heard nothing from them. The fans deserve an explanation.


*****

Good article.

Iv been saying this for months.

The Sunday Business post did an article on the Glazer's restructuring of the debt a few weeks ago which basically came to the same conclusions.

[EDDIEB]

Iv been saying this for months.

The Sunday Business post did an article on the Glazer's restructuring of the debt a few weeks ago which basically came to the same conclusions.

V.True and shocking.Bastards.

[homer jay]

what happened to the senna deal?

[MonTheHoops]

Ok I've been saying it for months. United are downsizing. Get used to it. These guys won't be forking out money hand over fist for a side not winning anything.

[Actin The Sham]

Iv been saying this for months.

The Sunday Business post did an article on the Glazer's restructuring of the debt a few weeks ago which basically came to the same conclusions.

I thought yound David Jones looked good in the reserves against Blackburn the other night, and it was good to see Alan Smith playing again as well. But I cannot believe that Sir Alex has let Rossi go on loan to Newcastle.

My view was that, OK, they haven't replaced Ruud, but Rossi will develop this season, and could end up vindicating Sir Alex's decision not to replace Ruud. But now he's been loaned out, so all that is left is Saha, Rooney, Skolsjaer (!) and Smith in terms of strikers. Solskjaer is past it in my view, although no one can question his commitment, and Smith is going to take another six to eight weeks to get back to anything like his best, so that leaves Saha and Rooney. If Saha gets injured then the team is looking very weak upfront. As for the midfield well maybe Carrick will prove to be a great signing, but they are looking stretched there as well.

At least Heinze Scholes and Smith should play more of a part this season.

[Langer Dan]

Ok I've been saying it for months. United are downsizing. Get used to it. These guys won't be forking out money hand over fist for a side not winning anything.

Its a double edged sword tho Mon, You've got to spend money to make money in football, the underlying problem being that the Glazers have sidled the club with such crippling debt that big money summer transfers simply are not going to be a feature of Uniteds transfer policy for the foreseeable future

[Papa Smurf]

what happened to the senna deal?

As far as I know, the original asking price was about £4/5m but Villareal upped that to £8m. Then the possibilty of a move for Hargreaves killed it off altogether.

[MonTheHoops]

Its a double edged sword tho Mon, You've got to spend money to make money in football, the underlying problem being that the Glazers have sidled the club with such crippling debt that big money summer transfers simply are not going to be a feature of Uniteds transfer policy for the foreseeable future

Yes I know but the way United are going to make money is by selling their top assets. That's the way I foresee the club going. The money in the game at the moment is a throwback to the late 90s. Players are being moved on for stupid prices (Heskey to Wigan, McSheffrey to Birmingham and even Petrov to Villa, Carrick to United). The thing is though that while these players are going for massive prices, there are also bargains to be had.

Celtic have signed Jarosik, Vennegoor of Hesselink & Gravesen this transfer window along with 5 other signings of lower profile. However money has actually been made in selling our best asset. I really think this is the way United will go. They'll sell their best assets and replace them with 2 or 3 players who can also do a job. I'm certainly happier now than I was a few weeks ago. Hartson, Keane, Petrov out & the three mentioned above in. Debt serviced, wages reduced and not a penny spent as such.

Yes you have to speculate to accumulate but the market this summer is overpriced so I think United are right not to spend too much cash right now.

[Langer Dan]

Yes you have to speculate to accumulate but the market this summer is overpriced so I think United are right not to spend too much cash right now.

Well I can appreciate the merits of your theory but tbh it makes no financial sense as regards the Glazers business plan. Their strategy of loan repayment counts on United being around for the Business end of The Champions league and the massive financial windfall that results.

Last season showed what happens if you fail to strengthen your squad in the close season.

The Glazers are going to lose their shirts if they continue down this road. TBH I feel the club is in a far more dire financial situation than anyone realises.
If the current trend continues a leeds like meltdown is not probable but inevitable.

[MonTheHoops]

Well I can appreciate the merits of your theory but tbh it makes no financial sense as regards the Glazers business plan. Their strategy of loan repayment counts on United being around for the Business end of The Champions league and the massive financial windfall that results.

Last season showed what happens if you fail to strengthen your squad in the close season.


What last season showed is how clubs applying the policy I'm speaking about can often progress further than the G14 clubs if they apply it properly.

Celtic are at present attempting to apply this policy. United should have qualified last year at the expense of Benfica or Villarreal. The blame for that lies with Fergie if you ask me, not the Glaziers. He certainly had a better squad then either of those teams.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Glaziers but I do believe they'll attempt to implement a policy similar to the one I've described above.

[KolaKubes]

Who really is going to displace Utd from a top 4 slot this year?

Arsenal have got two brilliant signings yesterday, great work swapping Reyes and that cunt Cole for those two and might push on now to nip up for second spot but they're off to a woeful start.

Liverpool weren't good enough last year and don't look especially better this year.

Utd are stronger than they were last year in a real achilles' heel of our midfield with the return of an inform Scholes, Carrick and the (fingers crossed) emergence of David Jones as a player of some substance.

I think we should have signed someone if we'd any notions of chasing the title but it looks like we don't.

Aside from that, again, who's going to nick a CL spot off us of the also rans making up the Premiership?

[Che Mourinho]

United will defo finish in the top 4 and I think have a great chance of challenging for the title, as long as we can stay injury free - touch wood (as I touch my head).

But....since the Glazers have come in, the money has dried up, as was predicted, but they keep giving the fans PR bullshit. Tickets prices have gone up, I'm not overly worried about that, but where's the money being spent? Interest. We've had a net inflow in transfer fees this summer (Van, Mikel out, probably just make it an inflow versus Carrick £14 deal - not £18.6m!), but where's that money going? Interest. There have been a number of players leaving the club on loan and a number of lesser players gotten rid of for little (Spector, Miller, Fortune, McShane, Steele, list goes on). Where's that overall saving on wages going? Interest.

We also still have £6m coming in next year from Mikel deal (£6m this year, £6 next), with the extra 8,000 or so seats and more executive boxes and the new lucrative deal with AIG (and even BetFred), the Glazers are sitting happy as the cash comes in. Remember what Senna said - Fergie wanted him, but the 'sponsors' didn't i.e. Glazers questioning the transfer. FFS, what do they know!

Basically United are fucked short term on transfers. Let's just hope Fergie can work his magic (or more likely Rooney & Ronaldo) and we can still win something decent in the next couple of years. I think we can, but there'll be no backing the manager in the transfer market - even though the PR machine says otherwise.

[JonnyOnionRings]

if Utd were genuine about signing Hargreaves then theres no excuse for not having a back up lined up just in case . Short a striker is bad but short a defensive midfielder as well is a joke .
theres no strength in depth in the squad especially up front (this year) and you gotta wonder why every year for the last few- even before the Glazers- we've had problems up front then at the back , then in midfield etc
and it just doesn't seem to be shortage of money Other clubs can spot a bargain . Why Utd try this they end up with such a selection of duds is beyond me . thinking of Miller , Kleberson , Djemba-Djemba so on so forth

[Del]

Am I right in thinking that United can recall Rossi back into the squad if they have some injuries?

[JonnyOnionRings]

dunno but if they need to depend on an untried 19 year old then they really are fucked.

[Del]

They'll never win anything with kids ;)

[JonnyOnionRings]

has alan hansen ever gottit wrong???

[Del]

Notice the ;) at the end of the sentance

[JonnyOnionRings]

too subtle....

[Dangermouse]

if Utd were genuine about signing Hargreaves

I suspect that was more of an attempt to appear as thought they had money to spend by faking interest in a player who wasn't going to be allowed to move.

[FL4ZGN]

Ole got two for Norway, Saha was on the scoresheet for France as was Fletcher for Scotland.

No injuries.

[Up For The Ba]

Ole got two for Norway, Saha was on the scoresheet for France as was Fletcher for Scotland.

No injuries.

Saha went off injured in that game, bad tackle apparently. His ankle swelled up and a scan today is supposed to reveal whether the injury is serious or not.

[Del]

Saha went off injured in that game, bad tackle apparently. His ankle swelled up and a scan today is supposed to reveal whether the injury is serious or not.

That man has no luck, he´s a very important player for United at the moment

[Actin The Sham]

From The Independent:

What seemed like the transfer coup of the decade took on a more prosaic appearance yesterday as it was revealed that Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano were hawked around several clubs before being offloaded to West Ham United at the 11th hour because they were the only club to agree to a raft of unusual conditions.

Media Sports Investment, the company that owns the players and has control over their destinies, initially wanted to sell both in the wake of the World Cup for a substantial profit on the $35m combined (then around £20m) they paid for the pair in 2004. Then, both players moved from Argentina to Corinthians in Brazil, a club controlled by MSI.

But this summer several big European clubs, including Manchester United, baulked at the price for one or both of the players. David Gill, the United chief executive, confirmed that yesterday. Arsenal, Chelsea, Seville and Roma were also reportedly among those not interested.

Instead MSI was left desperately seeking a club that would act as a "surrogate mother" for the players, on several conditions, including a contractual obligation to play them in every match, and a contractual obligation to let them be sold for profits - for MSI to pocket - at a time of MSI's choosing. Portsmouth were unwilling to take the players under such conditions, and neither were Manchester United willing to take Mascherano as part of such a deal. Gill said United were never interested in Tevez.

So while West Ham acquired two of Argentina's World Cup stars, both aged 22, on transfer deadline day, the way they will deploy them is being dictated by forces outside the club. On the plus side, West Ham reportedly paid nothing for the pair in fees, and will need to pay only half their wages, of £1.5m per year for Tevez and £1m for Mascherano.

In a bizarre twist to the saga, the man behind their move to West Ham, Kia Joorabchian, claimed in an interview with the News of the World that West Ham can become bigger than Chelsea "in the very near future". West Ham have confirmed exploratory talks about a takeover are under way with an unknown bidder with anonymous backers, believed to be Joorabchian. Joorabchian said: "When you see two players like that joining West Ham then there is no doubt in my mind the club can become massive."

[Actin The Sham]

Saha went off injured in that game, bad tackle apparently. His ankle swelled up and a scan today is supposed to reveal whether the injury is serious or not.


He looked ok last night even though he was only on for the last few minutes.

[Actin The Sham]

From United We Stand:

Ice Cold, Is Alex.......

By Olympique Browngear
Date: 6/9/2006

"When I go to England and take a cab or tube I get out two miles before the stadium and walk the rest because the atmosphere is terrific. Although the money side, etc is needed we must not become football men somewhere in an ivory tower. We must feel what is going on in the street," so says Guus Hiddink.

It's sad, but it illustrates the massive gap between supporters and those we support nowadays; that few 'football men' can even see what is going on in the street, they are so ensconced in their ivory tower.

The comments this week from Alex Ferguson about people who have devoted heart and soul to the well being of Manchester United Football Club more than he could ever imagine, shows that he is irrefutably one of them now, and no longer one of us - if he ever was. 'Them' being those people who have no grasp of what goes through a fans mind - those who think they are better and more important than us and for whom we continue to put Porsches on the driveways and Cristal in the ice buckets. 'Us' represents you and me. But how many of 'us' are there these days?

The fact is, of the 76,000 who will be at Spurs on Saturday, how many will have been deeply hurt by his comments? I'd say 30,000 at the most. Less than half. The rest don't have any idea of what it means to support Manchester United beyond what the result of the last match was. Nor, you suspect, are they interested in knowing.

I don't want to hate Alex Ferguson, and to be truthful I still don't - not to the degree that many others will after this, but the man is severely deluded, and is descending into a Brian Clough style end-of-career madness. At least he hasn't starting actually physically fighting with supporters yet, but it can't be far off, and there will be many willing to give him the opportunity.

I'd like to think everyone at Old Trafford would stand up and boo him on Saturday. It's behaviour I would normally abhor, but he needs to be taught a lesson, and that's not something I'd ever have envisaged myself saying. There is more chance of an "Every single one of us…" chant breaking out though sadly, and if it does then it'll be the first time in my life that I won't be singing along.

Even the stuff about the winter break. Football is a game that is played for the enjoyment of ordinary workingmen. Therefore players, officials and managers are doing what they are doing for mine and your pleasure. They get very, very well remunerated for doing this. We accept this. Sometimes grudgingly, but the very fact that we keep wanting to watch these men playing, officiating and managing means that we accept it. It has got to be on our terms though.
If you are getting £3 million a year Alex, the least you could do is work when you are told. Supporters want to see football over Christmas and throughout January - a month otherwise filled with nothingness. That is the way it is. If you don't like it then there are plenty of jobs that afford you two months off in the winter - cricket for example. Or selling drugs. You have no right to tell us how to support our team? OUR team, not yours. You are just the current manager. There have been many before you and there will be many after you.

'I need to be loyal to staff'. Fair enough, but what happens when Ferguson retires? Or is he going to stay on forever with his head in a tank of vinegar and tubes from it going into a computer that prints out instructions to a team of robotic Mike Phelans? And what about the 29 who have already lost their jobs since Glazer took over? Or are some employees 'less equal than others'? Whatever happened to the egalitarian socialist; the shop steward fighting for worker's rights?

I've also just read a comedy defying piece about Ferguson trying to get 'The Impossible Dream' played at every home game in a bid to get it to become United's anthem. What horrible contrived bullshit. It's something you'd expect David Dein to come up with along with 'Flag Days' and red and white colour co-ordinated t-shirts. How dare he try to tell us how to support our team.

If we wanted gay choreography we'd go to Anfield - at United we do it our way. Gwladys Street were said to know their football, the Kop had its witty terrace repartee, and the Stret was just a seething jungle of noise, mayhem and primal screaming. Don't try to tell us what we are Alex, we know what we are, and you are but a small part of what we are, not the other way round.

Not two months ago, in a bid to instill a perspective on what football means in this country and to whom it means so much, Alex Ferguson dragged his millionaire footballers around the decrepit Govan distract of Glasgow where he grew up in poverty but for the love of his local football club, Rangers, the brotherhood that afforded and by the ethos espoused in the socialist, working class community he so cherished. In the light of the excrement he has thrown from his ivory tower this week, he has not only become a hypocrite, but a disgrace to those very roots.


***

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just posting it here to see what other people think.

[STEVIEG]

I'll bet Bayern wished they cashed in now to the tune of 17 million

Bad luck on Hargreaves, got a suspected broken leg today

[STEVIEG]

TRANSFER RUMOURS

Cristiano Ronaldo wants Manchester United to sign Portuguese compatriot Nani. (The Times)

He's not the only one, an excellent player


Portsmouth have told Manchester United to forget about signing their loan star Manuel Fernandes. (Sun-i know!)

anothe rguy who has impressed me recently

[Rebelred]

TRANSFER RUMOURS

Cristiano Ronaldo wants Manchester United to sign Portuguese compatriot Nani. (The Times)

He's not the only one, an excellent player


Portsmouth have told Manchester United to forget about signing their loan star Manuel Fernandes. (Sun-i know!)

anothe rguy who has impressed me recently
Stevie, excuse my country ignorance but who is Nani?

[STEVIEG]

A young attacking midfielder from Sporting Lisbon-I've seen him a few times recently and he looks very good-(strong, athletic and an eye for goal)
Got a great goal in the Champs league a few weeks ago, think he plays on the right side of midfield (one for the future obviously)

[afeencalleddan]

I would say his best position would be Rooney's, i.e. behind a main striker. Could be a good replacement if Rooney goes through many more rough patches!

[STEVIEG]

I would say his best position would be Rooney's, i.e. behind a main striker. Could be a good replacement if Rooney goes through many more rough patches!


Sell Rooney, buy Carsley

[homer jay]

what happened to the lad yis were linked with who's claim to fame was going thru defences juggling the ball on his head?

[Rebelred]

A young attacking midfielder from Sporting Lisbon-I've seen him a few times recently and he looks very good-(strong, athletic and an eye for goal)
Got a great goal in the Champs league a few weeks ago, think he plays on the right side of midfield (one for the future obviously)
Was that the winner v Inter on matchday 1?

[afeencalleddan]

what happened to the lad yis were linked with who's claim to fame was going thru defences juggling the ball on his head?He was tragically decapitated in a freak incident by a Brazillian defender nicknamed "The Guillotine".

[afeencalleddan]

Was that the winner v Inter on matchday 1?Equaliser against Spartak Moskow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc3w4KjCIYE

[STEVIEG]

what happened to the lad yis were linked with who's claim to fame was going thru defences juggling the ball on his head?


I saw the youtube of that i wasn't that impressed he ended up losing the ball

I dunno, Kerlon it was, sure United are gonna be linked with everyone anyway

[homer jay]

He was tragically decapitated in a freak incident by a Brazillian defender nicknamed "The Guillotine".

i presume he used the 'clothesline' move. tragic

RIP

[STEVIEG]

Here's some more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-vGAKitT9I

[STEVIEG]

Here is the ze famous guillotine move

RIP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYlqql38XkY&mode=related&search=

[STEVIEG]

Manchester United snap up Portuguese prodigy Brandao
Fifteen-year-old striker signs two-year deal at Old Trafford

Manchester United have sealed a deal for Portuguese under-17 striker Evandro Brandao from English lower league club Walsall. The Old Trafford club agreed a fee with the Saddlers earlier in the week, and the 15-year-old is set to sign a two-year deal with the Red Devils.

Brandao impressed fellow Portuguese Carlos Queiroz, the United assistant manager, during the Nike Cup tournament held in Manchester last summer.

The youngster has lived in England for nine years, having moved with his family when he was just six. Already an under-17 international, despite his age, a bright future is predicted for the Portuguese.

The move represents the latest example of young Portuguese footballers moving to Europe’s top clubs.

Fellow striker Rui Fonte has recently joined Arsenal, while midfielder Coelho (Inter Milan) and Fabio (Atletico Madrid) are also developing in the clubs’ respective academies in Italy and Spain. All four players were included in Carlos Dinis’ most recent Portugal under-17 squad.

Brandao could not ask for a better example to follow when it comes to adapting to life at Old Trafford, with United’s Portuguese superstar Cristiano Ronaldo having made the same move when just 18 years of age.

http://www.portugoal.net/ManUtd0607/...oSnappedUp.htm

[Langer Dan]

hmm, the new Bellion?

[MonTheHoops]

Or Sonny Pike.

[Rebelred]

hmm, the new Bellion?
Lee took his goal well last night, nice to see the young lads get a run

[STEVIEG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6105026.stm

[Rolo Feen]

if united sign hargreaves i will vomit, either voluntarily or involuntarily....

[Superdave]

that's been doing the rounds with the pool for a couple of years too.

wouldn't be good enough to improve anyone above the calibre of Tottenham/Everton.....

[MonTheHoops]

I don't understand the fascination with Hargreaves to be honest. I think United should look elsewhere (Scott Parker)

[Happnin]

I don't understand the fascination with Hargreaves to be honest. I think United should look elsewhere (Scott Parker)
I think Hargreaves could do a job for us alright. Hopefully Carrick will start coming forward abit more as well as playing long balls from inside his own half. Scholes looks like he can have a good season for us. I honestly think that United could have a great season this year, the first time I can honestly say that for about 3 years. We should be looking at 9 points from the next 3 games and then comes the big one on the 26th at home to the blues, this will be the real test of how far we've come from last year. Granted it was a poor performance last night but the pitch was an absolute shambles, and no harm to lose one either, might wake a few people up.

[STEVIEG]

I think Hargreaves could do a job for us alright. Hopefully Carrick will start coming forward abit more as well as playing long balls from inside his own half. Scholes looks like he can have a good season for us. I honestly think that United could have a great season this year, the first time I can honestly say that for about 3 years. We should be looking at 9 points from the next 3 games and then comes the big one on the 26th at home to the blues, this will be the real test of how far we've come from last year. Granted it was a poor performance last night but the pitch was an absolute shambles, and no harm to lose one either, might wake a few people up.


Agreed
He is a player who can come in and do a different role and one which United might need in certain games

[Sound]

O' Shea to Waterford Utd for 20 tracksuits and a gear bag (O' Neills).

[cuidechamais]

I'd be delighted to see Louis back in London. Some fucking random. Give me a fully fit Saha any day over Smith.

Your right Smith is nothing but a Gurrier ok he was wasted at leeds but he is a waste of space at Utd :)

[Del]

O' Shea to Waterford Utd for 20 tracksuits and a gear bag (O' Neills).

Throw in a few mars bars and I say a deal could be done. Seriously though he'd be great in the Irish rugby team with all his garryowens.

[Rebelred]

Freddy Adu...
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1668527 ,00.html

Teenage star Freddy Adu has been given permission to train with Manchester United for two weeks by his Major League Soccer club DC United.

The American will not be able to sign for the Premiership leaders until next June, when he turns 18, but the two-week training stint will heighten speculation that a deal could eventually happen.

"I still don't know the details, but if it happens, it will be exciting," Adu told the Washington Post.

The paper claims that he will arrive at Old Trafford on November 18, although he will return to Washington at the end of the fortnight.

Adu, who is contracted to MLS rather than the club, has one more season to serve but there is an option for two more for the Ghana-born player hailed as the great hope of American soccer.

DC United technical director Dave Kasper revealed that the club backed Adu's two weeks in Manchester.

"This is something Freddy has wanted to do and we completely support him," United technical director Dave Kasper said. "It will be a good experience for him."

Following Sunday's season-ending loss to the New England Revolution, Adu said serious talks were under way to arrange a move to Europe.

"I'd like to be back, but my ultimate goal was to go overseas, and if it comes sooner rather than later, I'll take it," he said.

Adu, a midfielder and forward, has played three seasons for DC United, having joined them at the age of 14.

[Philby]

Bit of confusion around this proposed trial.

UNITED DO A FREDDY ADU TURN

Posted 08/11/06 23:45
EmailPrint (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1668527 ,00.html#)Save (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1668527 ,00.html#)


Manchester United are attempting to negotiate a two-week trial for American teenager Freddy Adu later this month.
News of Adu's likely arrival at Old Trafford (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1668527 ,00.html#) surfaced in America yesterday.
However, United officials quickly rejected speculation this morning, placing a statement on the club's official website insisting the position had not changed from last year when Sir Alex Ferguson claimed he had no interest in the 17-year-old.
It now transpires United are intent on looking at the player and the views of Ferguson had presumably not been sought when the initial statement was released.
Chelsea have also been linked with the 17-year-old, whose Major League Soccer season has been brought to an end by DC United's failure to qualify for the end of year play-offs.
If Adu eventually arrives at United's Carrington training ground and does enough to persuade Ferguson to offer him a permanent contract, a transfer could go through as early as January, although a fee would have to be negotiated with MLS who, as with all US-based players, own Adu's registration.

[MonTheHoops]

Adu has been using club's like this with a few months. A while back he said Celtic were interested.

[Actin The Sham]

Adu has been using club's like this with a few months. A while back he said Celtic were interested.


I'd say the Glazers are driving this, on the basis that hey want to try and "market the manchester united brand" in the US to "maximise shareholder returns," and "leverage their investment," and "identify synergies."

No wonder Sir Alex didn't know anything about this.

[Paddy Wagon]

I'd say the Glazers are driving this, on the basis that hey want to try and "market the manchester united brand" in the US to "maximise shareholder returns," and "leverage their investment," and "identify synergies."

No wonder Sir Alex didn't know anything about this.
OOOOOH, Someone's been reading the Business Post ..

[Forsberg]

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=42773 2&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=United+confirm +Adu+arrival

Manchester United have confirmed to Sky Sports News that American teenager Freddy Adu will link up with the club for a two-week trial.

The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the DC United ace was to spend two weeks with the Premiership giants later this month.

United earlier moved to reject the report but have now made a U-turn on their previous stance.

The 17-year-old is expected to train with the Premiership giants towards the end of the month to allow him to get a taste of English football.

If he impresses manager Sir Alex Ferguson, The Red Devils could step up their bid to land the Ghana-born striker in January.

Adu turns 18 next June and would therefore be eligible to move to Europe ahead of next season, but United may look to wrap up a deal as soon as possible.

However, they are likely to face stiff competition from across Europe with clubs such as Chelsea and Real Madrid also linked with the teenage sensation.

But United appear to have stolen a march on their rivals by luring him to Old Trafford for a short trial.

Adu still has a year remaining on his contract with DC United but is known to be a fan of The Premiership and could look to quit Major League Soccer for England next year.

[Rebelred]

I've seen Adu play a few MLS games, and yes, he's only 17(give or take a few birth certificate missing years), but he never impressed me that much

[AmadeusDC]

I've seen him play on a few occassions. In addition an old team mate of mine was his stike partner for the underage national team and another's Dad was the U.S. assistant Coach so we've heard all about Freddy for a while now.
The fact is that the guy has a lot of talent!! If he's 17 he's truly gifted, if (from what guys have told me) he's a fair bit older then he's still a good player. His lack of size will hurt him if he (as expected) ends up in England. That said, he's got amazing control and great footwork so it'll be interesting to see what first class coaching can do for him. Remember that until now he's not been playing with or trained by people of the absolute highest calibre. Personally, if I was Adu I'd go somewhere like Celtic or Ajax to learn my trade before trying to move onto greater things. I'm afraid though that the lure of money will inevitably lead him to one of the top clubs immediatel which may be financially rewarding but devastating for his development as a footballer down the line.
Oh and btw the MLS is as purely physical as football gets IMHO. Yes, there are other leagues as fast and frantic (the Premier League etc.) if not more so but there is still a lot more skill involved overseas. Judging a relatively small weak kid by what he has done before the age of 18 in an intensely physical league is unfair. It is though a reason why I am so surprised he's desperate to get right into the Premier League as soon as he jumps ship from the MLS.

-AmadeusDC-

[afeencalleddan]

Oh and btw the MLS is as purely physical as football gets IMHO.Yeah, I remember playing against a team from the US when I was a teenager. We had the better ball players but they were superior in physique and fitness. It seemed to me that being physically strong and fit was an absolute essential part of their development over there. I'd say if you can shine in the MLS as a small but technically gifted player then you can't be too bad.

[washingtonDClanger]

Yeah, I remember playing against a team from the US when I was a teenager. We had the better ball players but they were superior in physique and fitness. It seemed to me that being physically strong and fit was an absolute essential part of their development over there. I'd say if you can shine in the MLS as a small but technically gifted player then you can't be too bad.

Two of Adu's ex. DC United teamates are regulars for Blackburn and Reading. As pointed out earlier it would better for him to play for a team like that rather than the United reserves.

[AmadeusDC]

Two of Adu's ex. DC United teamates are regulars for Blackburn and Reading. As pointed out earlier it would better for him to play for a team like that rather than the United reserves.

I agree that these clubs would be better for Freddy than being in the reserves at one of the big clubs but I still don't think that makes them ideal. Firstly, if he fails at a huge club then he will still be able to fallback and earn a transfer down to one of these teams. Going straight to one of these teams and failing will just lead him on a path back to the MLS. Also, these teams (fingers crossed that I'm wrong) may end up struggling at some point and not be able to afford the time spent watching a talented youngster learn his trade. I personally believe either Celtic or Ajax would be the best option for him. Ajax have a most impressive track record of honing the skills of talented youngsters and moulding them into great players. Freddy would be learning from the best Coaches there. There is also the advantage of being at a big club while still not facing opposition of the highest standard week in and week out. Playing for Ajax also puts you in the shop window big time and their good players move onto top notch clubs more often than not.
Celtic though is the one that could be huge for Adu. For starters they are cruising in their league so they can afford to give him a decent run out when he's ready. It's also a big club with a massive global following so it would be a great move financially for both the club obviously (massive U.S. exposure) and for Freddy via his sponsors more so than straight salary. He'd also be developing against a lower standard of opposition so he can gain confidence as he matures. Finally, Freddy has been a shrewd marketer thus far and him banging in a few goals in front of 60,000+ would be sportcenter gold in the U.S. TV market. If he's on ESPN he'll keep or increase his American based endorsments. Celtic just seems a better bet to me than Man U, Chelsea, etc. Then again I could be wrong and he could end up being a revelation at United. For some reason though I think he could be their version of SWP and that would be a disaster for him. -AmadeusDC-

[STEVIEG]

It's only a trial really no big deal


This is an interesting one though and a move which i think the player needs, though the timing is curious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/6135206.stm

[KolaKubes]

I agree that these clubs would be better for Freddy than being in the reserves at one of the big clubs but I still don't think that makes them ideal. Firstly, if he fails at a huge club then he will still be able to fallback and earn a transfer down to one of these teams. Going straight to one of these teams and failing will just lead him on a path back to the MLS. Also, these teams (fingers crossed that I'm wrong) may end up struggling at some point and not be able to afford the time spent watching a talented youngster learn his trade. I personally believe either Celtic or Ajax would be the best option for him. Ajax have a most impressive track record of honing the skills of talented youngsters and moulding them into great players. Freddy would be learning from the best Coaches there. There is also the advantage of being at a big club while still not facing opposition of the highest standard week in and week out. Playing for Ajax also puts you in the shop window big time and their good players move onto top notch clubs more often than not.
Celtic though is the one that could be huge for Adu. For starters they are cruising in their league so they can afford to give him a decent run out when he's ready. It's also a big club with a massive global following so it would be a great move financially for both the club obviously (massive U.S. exposure) and for Freddy via his sponsors more so than straight salary. He'd also be developing against a lower standard of opposition so he can gain confidence as he matures. Finally, Freddy has been a shrewd marketer thus far and him banging in a few goals in front of 60,000+ would be sportcenter gold in the U.S. TV market. If he's on ESPN he'll keep or increase his American based endorsments. Celtic just seems a better bet to me than Man U, Chelsea, etc. Then again I could be wrong and he could end up being a revelation at United. For some reason though I think he could be their version of SWP and that would be a disaster for him. -AmadeusDC-

But Celtic are rubbish.

(tempts fate) :D

[corksongs]

i've yet to read the length of the loan
if it was 2 or 3 months
then he could come back in good form
for late jan/feb

rather than dabbling with a player trying to regain fitness, not to mind form, over a busy and very important christmas period.

very little cover for saha and rooney though with ole looking a little brittle at moment

It's only a trial really no big deal


This is an interesting one though and a move which i think the player needs, though the timing is curious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/6135206.stm

[STEVIEG]

i've yet to read the length of the loan
if it was 2 or 3 months
then he could come back in good form
for late jan/feb

rather than dabbling with a player trying to regain fitness, not to mind form, over a busy and very important christmas period.

very little cover for saha and rooney though with ole looking a little brittle at moment


Yeah it won't be for long he needs games Giggs and Ronaldo can both play up top anyway i suppose (and even Scholes)

[STEVIEG]

He's gone to Leeds now on loan instead i think

[elwood blues]

He's gone to Leeds now on loan instead i think
Denis Wise has expressed an interest alright.

[AmadeusDC]

He's gone to Leeds now on loan instead i think

I'm sure their fans will welcome him back with open arms. He'll have to put in some phenomenal displays to win that bitter lot over. -AmadeusDC-

[STEVIEG]

I'm sure their fans will welcome him back with open arms. He'll have to put in some phenomenal displays to win that bitter lot over. -AmadeusDC-


They need a player like him
If his team mates had half his passion they would be in the top flight

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=42798 8&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=4161&title=Fergie+explain s+Smith+loan

[AmadeusDC]

They need a player like him
If his team mates had half his passion they would be in the top flight

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=42798 8&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=4161&title=Fergie+explain s+Smith+loan

I agree............ but that doesn't mean the fans will still have it in for him unless he does something amazing. -AmadeusDC-

[STEVIEG]

I agree............ but that doesn't mean the fans will still have it in for him unless he does something amazing. -AmadeusDC-


True enough

[Up For The Ba]

Going back to Leeds from his point of view is kinda taking the piss if you ask me.

[Rebelred]

I think he just needs to go for a month or so to get a few games under his belt, he's well behind on match fitness, that's all

[Up For The Ba]

I think he just needs to go for a month or so to get a few games under his belt, he's well behind on match fitness, that's all

ya, but not at Leeds! go to Cardiff like initially planned.

[Paddy Wagon]

Derby County hope to conclude the signing of Manchester United midfielder David Jones on Wednesday.
A deal has been agreed that Jones, 23, will initially move on loan to Pride Park with a £1m-plus transfer becoming permanent in the January.

Jones played for Rams boss Billy Davies in a loan spell at Preston last season.

Personal terms have yet to be settled but Davies hopes they can be sorted so Jones can join training on Friday and play against Luton on Saturday.

[STEVIEG]

Good player-Fergie obviously doesn't think that he'll make it at United though so 1 million isn't bad bussines

I'd be confident that the guy has a good career ahead of him though and best of luck to him

[Up For The Ba]

Derby County hope to conclude the signing of Manchester United midfielder David Jones on Wednesday.
A deal has been agreed that Jones, 23, will initially move on loan to Pride Park with a £1m-plus transfer becoming permanent in the January.

Jones played for Rams boss Billy Davies in a loan spell at Preston last season.

Personal terms have yet to be settled but Davies hopes they can be sorted so Jones can join training on Friday and play against Luton on Saturday.

I didnt realise that he was that old.

[Paddy Wagon]

I didnt realise that he was that old.
Nor did I actually... Havnt seen much of him but what I have seen he seems a bit lightweight, probably a decent player but not near good enough for Utd, similar to Greening, Wallwork, Gillespie, McShane, Thornley, Tomlinson etc etc...

[KolaKubes]

Nor did I actually... Havnt seen much of him but what I have seen he seems a bit lightweight, probably a decent player but not near good enough for Utd, similar to Greening, Wallwork, Gillespie, McShane, Thornley, Tomlinson etc etc...

David Healy another notable one.

When you add them all up, Utd are head and shoulders above every other club in England in producing professional footballers incidentally.

D Jones wasn't good enough.

[Papa Smurf]

Alan Smith's loan is off as well by the looks of things. United have put some sort of special training programme in place for him and he will not be loaned out according to his agent.

[FL4ZGN]

Luke Chadwick

Robbie Savage

Nicky Butt

[AmadeusDC]

Luke Chadwick

Robbie Savage

Nicky Butt

A christ, Nicky Butt can't be put in that category. Not be the likes of Thornley, Wallwork etc. He played for the first team for about 6 years!! Same with Phil Neville. Savage would definitely fall into that category and Chadwick does also. -AmadeusDC-

[FL4ZGN]

A christ, Nicky Butt can't be put in that category. Not be the likes of Thornley, Wallwork etc. He played for the first team for about 6 years!! Same with Phil Neville. Savage would definitely fall into that category and Chadwick does also. -AmadeusDC-


Butt didnt make the grade so was moved on. Still produced by United.

[Paddy Wagon]

Butt didnt make the grade so was moved on. Still produced by United.
Butt was a more than able Utd player, always there when called upon Barcelona 99 etc, he was knocking on the door when Ince was leaving and must have played 250/300 games for United while there..

[FL4ZGN]

Butt was a more than able Utd player, always there when called upon Barcelona 99 etc, he was knocking on the door when Ince was leaving and must have played 250/300 games for United while there..


He was in his prime when he left.

If he was any good the wizzard would have kept him.

As usual the wizzard was spot on.

[Paddy Wagon]

What Im saying is that Butt had a very succesfull career at Utd he won alot and was an honest pro, and definatley cannot be likened to players who played away on loan then returned played a handfull of league cup games, pointless Champs Lge group games, and then sold on to a top Championship club....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Butt

[STEVIEG]

What Im saying is that Butt had a very succesfull career at Utd he won alot and was an honest pro, and definatley cannot be likened to players who played away on loan then returned played a handfull of league cup games, pointless Champs Lge group games, and then sold on to a top Championship club....

Exactly
He did make the grade and he won the lot
It was time for him to go but he had a good career at United

[FL4ZGN]

What Im saying is that Butt had a very succesfull career at Utd he won alot and was an honest pro, and definatley cannot be likened to players who played away on loan then returned played a handfull of league cup games, pointless Champs Lge group games, and then sold on to a top Championship club....


I know exactly what you were saying but i am saying that he left in his prime and moved to a big club. He has been a total flop at both Newcastle & Birmingham.

[Rebelred]

Butt didnt make the grade so was moved on. Still produced by United.
thats bull. Butt broke into the team in midfield in 95, with such an effect that Ince wasn't missed. He more than held his own for manys a season. To say he didnt make the grade is grossly unfair to him. He was a great squad player to have, often filled the gap with little or no fuss.

[KolaKubes]

He was in his prime when he left.

If he was any good the wizzard would have kept him.

As usual the wizzard was spot on.

The redissue "intelligentsia" (a bit like the SFI but more ill-humoured) have issued a dictat saying you're no longer allowed referred to the most successful British manager of his generation in anything other than derogatory terms anywhere on t'internet. Sorry. You'll have to edit that to read "Alzy alco Scottish cunt" or some such. Richard Kurt off the Examiner is actually one of the more evenhanded when it comes to Ferguson these days amongst that lot.

[STEVIEG]

The redissue "intelligentsia" (a bit like the SFI but more ill-humoured) have issued a dictat saying you're no longer allowed referred to the most successful British manager of his generation in anything other than derogatory terms anywhere on t'internet. Sorry. You'll have to edit that to read "Alzy alco Scottish cunt" or some such. Richard Kurt off the Examiner is actually one of the more evenhanded when it comes to Ferguson these days amongst that lot.

Shows what they know................ .................

[FL4ZGN]

thats bull. Butt broke into the team in midfield in 95, with such an effect that Ince wasn't missed. He more than held his own for manys a season. To say he didnt make the grade is grossly unfair to him. He was a great squad player to have, often filled the gap with little or no fuss.


When he was needed most he failed to make the grade. We have still not replaced Keane, why release Butt when Keane was coming to the end of his career and everybody in football knew that we needed a replacement. Surely that magnificent player who held his own in 1995 should have been the man to carry that mantle.

What has he done since he left the club?


N O T H I N G

The wizzard was right.

[KolaKubes]

Surely that magnificent player who held his own in 1995

For me, Butt was the original Darren Fletcher.

Total fucking waster.

Now, whether we should have got rid of Phil Neville is another question.

[FL4ZGN]

For me, Butt was the original Darren Fletcher.

Total fucking waster.

Now, whether we should have got rid of Phil Neville is another question.


We didnt get rid of Neville, he wanted regular first team football so he could remain in the England setup.The wizzard understood this and actually advised Phil to go to Everton.

You can only admire players who want to leave big clubs to get regular first team action.

Butt has more league medals than the current Liverpool & Arsenal teams combined so in fairness he could never be classed as a waster.

He could however be classed as failing to make the grade when he was most needed to.

[KolaKubes]

Butt has more league medals than the current Liverpool & Arsenal teams combined so in fairness he could never be classed as a waster.


Superb. :D

I'm nicking that one boy.

[Paddy Wagon]

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=42943 6&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=Adu+targets+Un ited+offer

[xvis]

strange one. ..to be selling off United's young midfielders.

Derby have completed the signing of Manchester United midfielder David Jones.

Jones has joined the Rams on loan with a view to a £1million permanent transfer which is expected to be completed in January.


http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/manu/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_ NAME=soccer/06/11/17/SOCCER_Derby.html&TEAMHD=manu&DIV=prem&TEAM=MANCHESTER--UNITED&RH=Manchester--United&PREV_SEASON=

[KolaKubes]

strange one. ..to be selling off United's young midfielders.




http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/manu/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_ NAME=soccer/06/11/17/SOCCER_Derby.html&TEAMHD=manu&DIV=prem&TEAM=MANCHESTER--UNITED&RH=Manchester--United&PREV_SEASON=

Gibson is a lot better than Jones and one suspects that Munich will do business for Hargreaves, perhaps player exchanges though.

[xvis]

Gibson is a lot better than Jones and one suspects that Munich will do business for Hargreaves, perhaps player exchanges though.

fingers crossed, ...Bayern must be one of the biggest 'ball-breakers' in the game to try to do business with.
...it's one excuse after another, ...expect it to drag 'til January 31 and possibly thereafter..

[KolaKubes]

fingers crossed, ...Bayern must be one of the biggest 'ball-breakers' in the game to try to do business with.
...it's one excuse after another, ...expect it to drag 'til January 31 and possibly thereafter..

Oh, Bayern's reputation as a bunch of cunts precedes them.

I wouldn't mind if Utd were doing their usual retarded thing of slapping in a ridiculously low bid and hoping that a club like Bayern will just go "oh, the Manchester United want him, better sell so." but this is a very decent bid for a player of Hargreaves talents and the position he plays.

It's something of a contrast to Utd's tack with Real's interest in Ronaldo. What's wrong with a firm and insistent no through official channels and leave it at that?

This bizarre insulting public confrontation with Utd, I don't know for whose benefit this is. Utd are doing nothing Bayern don't do to any German club with a player they're interested in.

Bavarians have something of a reputation though don't they? Perhaps this is all just a face saving exercise at the merest idea that someone could want to depart for the likes of Manchester from there?

[Rebelred]

Oh, Bayern's reputation as a bunch of cunts precedes them.

I wouldn't mind if Utd were doing their usual retarded thing of slapping in a ridiculously low bid and hoping that a club like Bayern will just go "oh, the Manchester United want him, better sell so." but this is a very decent bid for a player of Hargreaves talents and the position he plays.

It's something of a contrast to Utd's tack with Real's interest in Ronaldo. What's wrong with a firm and insistent no through official channels and leave it at that?

This bizarre insulting public confrontation with Utd, I don't know for whose benefit this is. Utd are doing nothing Bayern don't do to any German club with a player they're interested in.

Bavarians have something of a reputation though don't they? Perhaps this is all just a face saving exercise at the merest idea that someone could want to depart for the likes of Manchester from there?
I think alot of this is to do with them wanting to keep a sense of invincibility around them in German football circles. Losing Ballack was a major blow to Bayerns legendary ego.
Rarely has the best player at Bayern left so easily. Playing hardball for Hargreaves is understandable from that point of view, they don't have to sell him and it sends out a message to other clubs that just because they lost Ballack, they won't let others leave so easily.
I think they'd do the same if it was any other club who came in for Hargreaves,not just United

[mithrandir]

Butt has more league medals than the current Liverpool & Arsenal teams combined so in fairness he could never be classed as a waster.

Butt has 8 league medals.

Henry - 2
Gallas - 2
Ljungberg - 2
Lehmann - 1
Toure - 1
Gilberto Silva - 1

That's 9 off the top of my head.

[AmadeusDC]

Butt has 8 league medals.

Henry - 2
Gallas - 2
Ljungberg - 2
Lehmann - 1
Toure - 1
Gilberto Silva - 1

That's 9 off the top of my head.

I was thinking the same myself. There's plenty more as well I'd say.

-AmadeusDC-

[Actin The Sham]

Oh, Bayern's reputation as a bunch of cunts precedes them.

I wouldn't mind if Utd were doing their usual retarded thing of slapping in a ridiculously low bid and hoping that a club like Bayern will just go "oh, the Manchester United want him, better sell so." but this is a very decent bid for a player of Hargreaves talents and the position he plays.

It's something of a contrast to Utd's tack with Real's interest in Ronaldo. What's wrong with a firm and insistent no through official channels and leave it at that?

This bizarre insulting public confrontation with Utd, I don't know for whose benefit this is. Utd are doing nothing Bayern don't do to any German club with a player they're interested in.

Bavarians have something of a reputation though don't they? Perhaps this is all just a face saving exercise at the merest idea that someone could want to depart for the likes of Manchester from there?

Leave them alone, they're still upset over '99.


Heh heh heh...
:)