Manchester United Transfer News

[STEVIEG]

How muh did they pay for Zokora as his replacement?


Different position

[Teknique]

Spurs didn't need to get rid of him and didn't want him to go
Thats why its so expensive


I think I heard he was refusing to sign a new contract , so did Spurs have any choice but to take the the best deal available?

[STEVIEG]

Some of Carrick's stats from last year, comparing him favourably with some of the other midfielders in the league
And yes, it's just stats and no, i'm not saying he is better than all of these



Tackling
..................Pl ayer............ Tackles ..........Tackle %
1 ..............Xabi Alonso..........167. ..............69%
2 .............Mohamed Sissoko...156....... ......73%
3 ..........Michael Carrick...135 .............74%
4 ............Michael Essien....... 106 ..............69%
5.............Frank Lampard...... 100 ..............73%
6.............Claude Makelele .....97............. ..69%
7..........Steven Gerrard..........96. ...............73%

Passing

................Play er ............Passes.. .... Pass %
1 ........Frank Lampard.....2,015 ..........76%
2 ......Michael Carrick....1,938 ..........80%
3 .............Xabi Alonso........1,820 .........76%
4 .............Makelel e...........1,601 ..........74%
5........Steven Gerrard.......1,464 ..........74%
6.............Michae l Essien ......1,447 ......76%

Carrick is the most successful in both categories.

Defo could have bought worse

[Forsberg]

Different position
Both Central midfielders. Different type , ya , but same position

[STEVIEG]

I think I heard he was refusing to sign a new contract , so did Spurs have any choice but to take the the best deal available?

No they could have waited
It's a good deal for Spurs too

Martin Jol understands
He refused to criticise the player caus eif United came knocking for him he'd be gone too

Carrick was with West Ham
Spurs are bigger and he went to them
He was with Spurs
United was more of a challenge and a good move
Shit happens, such is football

[STEVIEG]

Both Central midfielders. Different type , ya , but same position


Yeah but one is a more a breaker of play (Zikora is like Sissouko, Carrick is like Alonso)

Senna could be uniteds Zikora/Sissouko/Makelele

[STEVIEG]

Saw on another site that Wages rumoured to be about 50K
Half of what Keane was earning and half of what Rio earns

[MonTheHoops]

It's a FANTASTIC piece of business by Spurs. Well done them, not allowing themselves to be bullied and then turning around and doing a bit of bullying themselves. 500% profit on the guy is something most clubs dream of when signing anyone.

Petrov for Spurs please. £7M.

[STEVIEG]

500% profit on the guy is something most clubs dream of when signing anyone.





No most clubs dream of silverware
If i was a Spurs fan i'd take 4th place in the league, an FA cup or even a Carling cup ahead of a fee which is dependant on United success, which could easily be spent on another 2 midfielders (they have about 10 now), and which still leaves them short on creativity having lost their best player of last year

[MonTheHoops]

No most clubs dream of silverware
If i was a Spurs fan i'd take 4th place in the league, an FA cup or even a Carling cup ahead of a fee which is dependant on United success, which could easily be spent on another 2 midfielders (they have about 10 now), and which still leaves them short on creativity having lost their best player of last year


I did say "when signing anyone"

[Langer Dan]

No most clubs dream of silverware
If i was a Spurs fan i'd take 4th place in the league, an FA cup or even a Carling cup ahead of a fee which is dependant on United success, which could easily be spent on another 2 midfielders (they have about 10 now), and which still leaves them short on creativity having lost their best player of last year

You're in fantasy land now Stevie where 18.6 million for an alright player is good business.


In other transfer news The Sindo says the Torres deal is still on the table.

[STEVIEG]

Fair enough

[STEVIEG]

You're in fantasy land now Stevie where 18.6 million for an alright player is good business.

.


Its not 18.6 million until United win things which would totally see the fee becoming irrelevant
Same as Rooneys supposed 30 million fee its not near that

Did i say it was good business
No
But united need players, look how many of their new jerseys are in town
There's money coming in
Now at least its going out too

United need midfielders
He's a good player who will help us get closer to Chelsea


I'd love if Torres came to United but i feel it's unlikely, though i also feel fergie has something else up his sleeve

[KolaKubes]

While their partnership isn't on the same plane as Gerrard & Alonso or Makalele & Lampard it has the potential to be quite a good central pairing to compliment the ability of their two most important players in the future...Rooney & Ronaldo.

While neither Carrick or Senna are as good as some of the others (e.g. Gattusso, Mascherano) who have been linked with manyoo I'd be annoyed if they managed to tempt both to Old Trafford as it would go a long way to addressing a massive weak-link in their current squad.

C'mon Villareal, play hard-ball.

Whatever about Alonso and Gerrard (and might I take this opportunity to say that they themselves are a poor man's Keane and Scholes), Makelele and Lampard aren't great. One of the reason's why Liverpool have consistently boxed above their weight in encounters with the cunts is that they have the players to seriously compete in central midfield.

Utd have, as you point out, had a ridiculous shortcoming in the same area which meant that, while I think we actually have better players in the rest of the field to both Chelsea and Liverpool, we were never at the races against the big boys last year. At least partly the reason why we went out in Europe early for the first time in ages.

I think Senna's class actually. Maybe a bit old but himself, Carrick and Scholes in the three man midfield we'll most likely play, well, you'd have a hard time getting the ball back off that lot even if they might lack a bit of bite when not on the ball overall.

Course, if it's Mascherano, what with Makelele getting on, Utd could be back in the ascendancy sooner than I could have imagined.

[Up For The Ba]

Its not 18.6 million until United win things which would totally see the fee becoming irrelevant
Same as Rooneys supposed 30 million fee its not near that

Did i say it was good business
No
But united need players, look how many of their new jerseys are in town
There's money coming in
Now at least its going out too

United need midfielders
He's a good player who will help us get closer to Chelsea


I'd love if Torres came to United but i feel it's unlikely, though i also feel fergie has something else up his sleeve

I agree with all this. Either way Carrick is going to be over priced but the Spurs statement makes it blatantly obvious that they are not going to get anything near £18.6M for him right away. Its a start and because things were left go this stage United were always gonna be held to auction to get themselves out of a mess that should have been sorted out two years ago.

[MonTheHoops]

I don't think Makelele is too important to what I think Chelsea have in mind - a pulley system in place with two midfielders in Ballack and Lampard. I imagine Makelele will be used for shoring up leads and not much more.

[KolaKubes]

Its not 18.6 million until United win things which would totally see the fee becoming irrelevant
Same as Rooneys supposed 30 million fee its not near that

Did i say it was good business
No


Speaking of the Rooney transfer, he's also always quoted as a "£30m player" when that's the very most he could cost.

Here again, Carrick's going to have that £19m price tag over his head when you can be sure a hefty chunk of that is performance-related. Similarly, Utd haven't seen anything like the £25m that Beckham was reputedly sold for because Real have been shite since. Probably not uncorrelated.

[Langer Dan]

HMM Could this be the end for Fletch?

[KolaKubes]

I don't think Makelele is too important to what I think Chelsea have in mind - a pulley system in place with two midfielders in Ballack and Lampard. I imagine Makelele will be used for shoring up leads and not much more.

Jesus H Christ, I'd love to see Chelsea go with a Lampard + Ballack midfield duo. There'd be a gaping hole behind them and much of the overrated John Terry falling on his ass as he's exposed.

Incidentally, Sound, John Terry at the World Cup. Outshone by "our" Rio!

Worse, he had some appalling mistakes.

Smug.

[MonTheHoops]

Jesus H Christ, I'd love to see Chelsea go with a Lampard + Ballack midfield duo. There'd be a gaping hole behind them and much of the overrated John Terry falling on his ass as he's exposed.

Incidentally, Sound, John Terry at the World Cup. Outshone by "our" Rio!

Worse, he had some appalling mistakes.

Smug.


I don't think Chelsea are shoring up their defence with the signing of Cole for the good of their health. You don't think Ballack and Lampard will be rotated to accomodate Makelele do you?

[dotty]

It's a FANTASTIC piece of business by Spurs. Well done them, not allowing themselves to be bullied and then turning around and doing a bit of bullying themselves. 500% profit on the guy is something most clubs dream of when signing anyone.

Petrov for Spurs please. £7M.

its a savage bit of business by spurs,bought him for only 2.5m and sold him on for potentially 18+m - they have spent a nice sum of money over the past few seasons and as you said MON handy profit,looking forward to seeing how zakora gets on in the PL and jol has high hopes for huddlestone as well.

[Sound]

Jesus H Christ, I'd love to see Chelsea go with a Lampard + Ballack midfield duo. There'd be a gaping hole behind them and much of the overrated John Terry falling on his ass as he's exposed.

Incidentally, Sound, John Terry at the World Cup. Outshone by "our" Rio!

Worse, he had some appalling mistakes.

Smug.


A couple of things.
Carrick is a good prospect but he's worth half of what's being paid for him.
All transfers have performance related bonuses etc.
If by outshone you mean that they were both shit, then yeah, I agree.

[Coin]

I don't think Makelele is too important to what I think Chelsea have in mind - a pulley system in place with two midfielders in Ballack and Lampard. I imagine Makelele will be used for shoring up leads and not much more.
I wonder if Essien will be happy as the 4th choice in a 2 man midfield.

[Up For The Ba]

I don't think Chelsea are shoring up their defence with the signing of Cole for the good of their health. You don't think Ballack and Lampard will be rotated to accomodate Makelele do you?


Or maybe all three will play? It will be interesting to see what happens. This has to somewhat make somebody unhappy, as coin pointed out no more so than essien. If they do employ a 4-4-2 formation as has been suggested it will leave them very narrow. If They go 4-5-1 the Grog will get the hump. No matter what way you look at it I think some unsettlement this year is inevitable.

[dotty]

its one thing bringing in quality like ballack and sheva but not sure how happy they will be if rotated,especially ballack who strikes me as a bit of a moody fucker,sheva was the first name on the teamsheet at the san siro and certainly wouldnt want to play second fiddle to someone as limited as drogba.

[KolaKubes]

A couple of things.
Carrick is a good prospect but he's worth half of what's being paid for him.
All transfers have performance related bonuses etc.
If by outshone you mean that they were both shit, then yeah, I agree.

Oh come on, Ferdinand had a good World Cup.

Basically, with Gerrard unavailable, we paid what we had to to get the next best British midfielder around. We got £12m off Chelsea for Obi Mikel this summer who are about to toss away £25m on Cole. In a market distorted by Chelsea, it's not a bad price for an England international at the £15m it'll end up as. Spurs knew we'd money to spend from RVN and Obi Mikel (whatever else) and knew we simply had to buy. A good price would have been £12m.

You're judging it against how much Alonso cost which was probably Liverpool's best signing of the past decade in terms of value for money.

[Langer Dan]

The days of snapping up the likes of Denis, Andrei, Eric and Schmeichel for a pittance are but distant memories.

[KolaKubes]

The days of snapping up the likes of Denis, Andrei, Eric and Schmeichel for a pittance are but distant memories.

Youth scouting is too good now. It's a pity really because a bargain signing like that, already with a 100 odd appearances are the business.

A lot of the young lads like Rossi, Pique, Lee Martin who are the best prospects at Utd were bought at nominal fees though if you want to count them.

[Sound]

Oh come on, Ferdinand had a good World Cup.

Basically, with Gerrard unavailable, we paid what we had to to get the next best British midfielder around. We got £12m off Chelsea for Obi Mikel this summer who are about to toss away £25m on Cole. In a market distorted by Chelsea, it's not a bad price for an England international at the £15m it'll end up as. Spurs knew we'd money to spend from RVN and Obi Mikel (whatever else) and knew we simply had to buy. A good price would have been £12m.

You're judging it against how much Alonso cost which was probably Liverpool's best signing of the past decade in terms of value for money.

Is he the best British midfielder available though? He doesn't seem much better than Nolan, Barton etc. He reminds me of a young Jamie Redknapp- he doesn't get enough goals and he's not great at breaking up play but has a nice pass.

Do they really need to buy British seeing as the price is so exorbitant? Pennant was way over the odds but this is in another stratosphere. I wonder how much Iniesta would go for seeing as he wont get much game time this year?

[KolaKubes]

Is he the best British midfielder available though? He doesn't seem much better than Nolan, Barton etc. He reminds me of a young Jamie Redknapp- he doesn't get enough goals and he's not great at breaking up play but has a nice pass.

Do they really need to buy British seeing as the price is so exorbitant? Pennant was way over the odds but this is in another stratosphere. I wonder how much Iniesta would go for seeing as he wont get much game time this year?

Ah, Iniesta is quality though. He's held back as per all young Spanish midfielders/defenders (in the main) but has a bright future ahead of him at Barcelona.

I'll have to hold my hand up and say I didn't see much of Spurs last year so I really don't know what Carrick will look like at Utd. All I've to go on is the odd snippet.

What I suspect is that Utd will be bringing in two midfielders and Ferguson was anxious that at least one of them would be a "proven" Premiership player.

Nolan isn't really what we were looking for because Scholes is still around and looking sharp in pre-season and we've this lad Jones back from loan who's a similar sort of player and highly rated (though I've not been too impressed with him so far).

The priority was something related to a replacement for Keane. Carrick's not that in the "steel" stakes but he certainly can replace Keane in the sense that much of Keane's game was about holding on to the ball and dictating the tempo of our play. I think from what I've seen of Carrick he could do that.

What happens next is probably a toss up between bringing in Mascherano or trying for both Senna and Torres. We still have a net profit of ~8-10m this summer on transfers after all and debt-ridden or not, I suspect money will have been allocated for a reasonably serious transfer spend this summer.

[afeencalleddan]

himself, Carrick and Scholes in the three man midfield we'll most likely playYou've got to be kidding - Rooney on his own up front or out wide to accommodate Carrick would be very silly. Scholes would have to be used as a super sub unless they can find a way to accommodate him too while keeping Rooney in his best position off the main striker.

[afeencalleddan]

Petrov for Spurs please. £7M.I was thinking that myself the other day but maybe it would just be better for Spurs to stick with what they have apart from maybe a proper left sided player - I don't think Andy Reid and Reto Ziegler are up to it.

[ho chi feen]

Similarly, Utd haven't seen anything like the £25m that Beckham was reputedly sold for because Real have been shite since. Probably not uncorrelated.

Not so, the Beckham deal wasn't performance related. Some was paid up front, and the remainder was to be paid over 24 months in two separate installments. As it happens, after 12 months Real coughed up the remainder, with a deduction of 1m for paying it up quicker than initially agreed.

[ho chi feen]

I wonder if Essien will be happy as the 4th choice in a 2 man midfield.

He'll probably be happy in the knowledge that he's going to be Makalele's long-term replacement, and no doubt he'll get plenty of game time until then.

[ho chi feen]

Do they really need to buy British seeing as the price is so exorbitant? Pennant was way over the odds but this is in another stratosphere. I wonder how much Iniesta would go for seeing as he wont get much game time this year?

I've got two words for you: Djemba and Djemba.

*shudders*

[HappyMonday83]

English players are always overpriced, that why few of them play abroad. That and their shit for the most part.

[KolaKubes]

You've got to be kidding - Rooney on his own up front or out wide to accommodate Carrick would be very silly. Scholes would have to be used as a super sub unless they can find a way to accommodate him too while keeping Rooney in his best position off the main striker.

Wait and see.

At best we'll get a sort of 4-2-3-1 thingey with Rooney in the centre of the 3.

[afeencalleddan]

Wait and see.

At best we'll get a sort of 4-2-3-1 thingey with Rooney in the centre of the 3.Well that would be fair enough. Personally I think Scholes may be taking a substitutes position this season if they get in a Senna type. Whatever happens, it would be madness to play Rooney anywhere but behind the front man.

[ho chi feen]

Wait and see.

At best we'll get a sort of 4-2-3-1 thingey with Rooney in the centre of the 3.

Yeah, the role Scholes played in the run in to the title in 2003. He's be unbelievable in tht position. I really liked that formation, it's very solid yet gives great freedom in attack. It's also what won us the title, made Beckham utterly dispensible, and it's just a shame about what happened to Ole, not to mention the Ronaldinho fiasco. With a proper central midfield unit, it could be put in place again. It doesn't even require a box-to-box player in the mould of Keane at his best.

With all the flak (some of it justified) that CQ has taken, people should remember that he put that formation in place and masterminded the title. That's why Fergie is so keen on him as a number 2. He can't be directly blamed for all that's gone wrong since.

[STEVIEG]

Carrick new number 16

cue lazy journalism frenzy in tomorrows papers comparing him unfavourably to Keane

[bar99]

Carrick new number 16

cue lazy journalism frenzy in tomorrows papers comparing him unfavourably to Keane

At least it wasnt Viera . . .:D

[bar99]

With all the flak (some of it justified) that CQ has taken, people should remember that he put that formation in place and masterminded the title. That's why Fergie is so keen on him as a number 2. He can't be directly blamed for all that's gone wrong since.

I would be slow to give him much credit - yes, he was responsible for convincing Fergie to introduce a system that was already accepted as being a more retentive system - however, he was also responsible for persevering with this system when it did not suit the individuals that were the components of it - how many goals did we score in Europe last year?

[bar99]

At least it wasnt Viera . . .:D

Although this saga does not appear to over:

Patrick Vieira is visiting Norway at the moment and in a interview with one of their papers:


"Now I'm not sure where I'm playing next season, I'm still looking for a new club. There might be some sort of conclusion in the next 48 hours and it's a very important decision for me. I will not be playing for Juventus since they are going to Serie B.

Every player wants to play for a club like Manchester United at the highest level. But after nine years at Arsenal it might be difficult. But everything can happen in football" said a smiling Vieira.

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/fotb...ticle697489.e ce

[baby face]

i think its a joke giving carrick number 16.they should have retired that number.wonder whos going to get number 10 ?

[ho chi feen]

I would be slow to give him much credit - yes, he was responsible for convincing Fergie to introduce a system that was already accepted as being a more retentive system - however, he was also responsible for persevering with this system when it did not suit the individuals that were the components of it - how many goals did we score in Europe last year?

Nope, that was a completely different formation, a 4-5-1 masqerading as a 4-3-3. Immediately, that's got one less offensive player, although admittedly is was in so small part down to CQ.

The formation I refer to was only used from Feb - May 2003. Since then, a succession of poor set-ups have been used, some geared too much towards available personnel, others seemingly having no consideration whatsoever to the players available and their abilities. But that's only one part of what's gone wrong at United since- there's been plenty more besides, which I don't think I need to spell out.

[STEVIEG]

If that's the case they would have retired practically all the numbers years ago, as Best, Law, Charlton, Cantona etc moved on
United don't go for that sentimentality and Roy Keane certainly doesn't
His status as a United legend is secure

It's only a number, Carrck will be judged by his performances on the field

[STEVIEG]

it's just a shame about what happened to Ole,

A much bigger loss than Beckham ever was
But he's back!

[STEVIEG]

Initial fee 13 million success related

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/5222956.stm

[xvis]

£18.6m ..sweet jesus!

...but at least it's someone in there who knows the trade (as distinct from the O Sheas and the Smiths) which is absolutely vital.

The upper management look to have lost £8 million to the club this week (4 mill each on Ruud and Carrick), ...not very clever.

I wouldn't be too keen on either Senna or Viera due to their age. either would be just a short term solution, but maybe thats what is required to get through this season. I still think any of the youth prospects are still 12 months away from having an impact.

..David Jones taken to hospital tonight with a suspected broken arm in a friendly win.



I'd love to see Zlatan Ibrahimovic added up front if anyway possible, ...even on loan. think he'd fit in nicely, ..add a bit of class ala Cantona added to being a bit of a target.

[STEVIEG]

£18.6m ..sweet jesus!

...but at least it's someone in there who knows the trade (as distinct from the O Sheas and the Smiths) which is absolutely vital.

The upper management look to have lost £8 million to the club this week (4 mill each on Ruud and Carrick), ...not very clever.

I wouldn't be too keen on either Senna or Viera due to their age. either would be just a short term solution, but maybe thats what is required to get through this season. I still think any of the youth prospects are still 12 months away from having an impact.

..David Jones taken to hospital tonight with a suspected broken arm in a friendly win.



I'd love to see Zlatan Ibrahimovic added up front if anyway possible, ...even on loan. think he'd fit in nicely, ..add a bit of class ala Cantona added to being a bit of a target.


It's only 18 million if United win leagues/Champ Leagues, if that happens nobody will complain
13 million at the moment and they got a good cut off Chelsea for Obi None


Bad news about Jones, the other Jones did well
Gibson, Martin, McShane and Rossi all played well again too

I've mixed feelings about Zlatan but he's got loads of skill and he's arrogant a la Eric-i wouldn't be suprised if he was one of Fergie's targets

When asked by MUTV if there would be more he said
"Absolutely"

[quincyk]

Both Gibson and Rossi had great games tonigh.

Destined to be stars of utds first team in the future!

[STEVIEG]

For sure
Rossi needs a goal or two for confidence and to fill out a bit and toughen up
Some great skill i see him ultimately in the Scholes role in years to come
Gibson looks the part already and is strong too
Has Steve Staunton picked him yet i wonder

[xvis]

Both Gibson and Rossi had great games tonigh.

Destined to be stars of utds first team in the future!

yeah, but any of these guys can only expected to contribute maybe 10-15 games in the coming year, in much the same way of the blooding of 94.

It's only 18 million if United win leagues/Champ Leagues, if that happens nobody will complain
13 million at the moment and they got a good cut off Chelsea for Obi None

I've mixed feelings about Zlatan but he's got loads of skill and he's arrogant a la Eric-i wouldn't be suprised if he was one of Fergie's targets

When asked by MUTV if there would be more he said
"Absolutely"

Let's say £16m then, he'll add to it with the international appearances, ..not so sure about the success.

I think he'd fit in great, he's enormously popular in Sweden, ..even more so than Henni.

If United can add two more, a midfielder and a forward to hold the line, I'd be very optimistic about things, ..we'd have a chance. With a triangle of Zlatan, Saha and Rooney to choose from, together with a credible midfield, and the possibility of Ole on the right in the form of Autumn 03.

...then we could start giving Chelsea something to think about. ..but a few more if's and buts.

[St_Cyrill_of_Tyrrenhaes]

yeah, but any of these guys can only expected to contribute maybe 10-15 games in the coming year, in much the same way of the blooding of 94.



Let's say £16m then, he'll add to it with the international appearances, ..not so sure about the success.

I think he'd fit in great, he's enormously popular in Sweden, ..even more so than Henni.

If United can add two more, a midfielder and a forward to hold the line, I'd be very optimistic about things, ..we'd have a chance. With a triangle of Zlatan, Saha and Rooney to choose from, together with a credible midfield, and the possibility of Ole on the right in the form of Autumn 03.

...then we could start giving Chelsea something to think about. ..but a few more if's and buts.

You're deluding yourself if you think that Ibrahimovic will be anything other than another expensive mistake. We've got to face facts at this stage and recognise that United not being able to buy anyone truly world class this summer is probably the beginning of a very, very lean period at the club. Players are like rats: they can smell a sinking ship a mile off.

[FL4ZGN]

Haestad signs for Man Utd!
Kjell Inge Dahle
Today

The Norwegian midfielder who got his breakthrough with the national squad last
year after an amazing run for IK Start will be presented on Wednesday according
to Norway’s biggest newspaper Verdens Gang.

Former Liverpool player and now the head coach of IK Start, Stig Inge Bjornebye
are not to happy about it after only three days as the new head coach after Tom
Nordli was sacked.

He told Verdens Gang: “Haestad is maybe the biggest starlet in Norway for the
last decade. But he had a buyout clause (£3.2m) so it was nothing we could do.
I understand that he wanted the challenge of playing for Man Utd and I wish him
the best of luck. But it is a great loss for our club”

[Rebelred]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2006350225,00.html
[/Quote]
PATRICK VIEIRA wants to join Manchester United — and hopes to have a deal done inside 48 hours.

The ex-Arsenal star, 30, has decided to quit Juventus after their relegation in the Serie A match-fixing scandal.

Vieira said: “Everyone wants to play for a club like Manchester United at the very highest level. It might be difficult after nine years at Arsenal but anything can happen in football.

“I will certainly not be playing for Juventus next season after they were relegated to Serie B.

“I believe my future will be sorted out in the next 48 hours.”

If Vieira goes to Old Trafford he will link up with midfielder Michael Carrick, who completed an £18.6million move from Tottenham yesterday.

Vieira joined Juventus for £13.7m last summer after nine years at the Gunners.

But with the Turin side dumped from Italy’s top flight and without Champions League football, Juve need to off-load their highly-paid stars.

That means United boss Alex Ferguson could get Vieira for as little as £6m.
[/Quote]

[xvis]

You're deluding yourself if you think that Ibrahimovic will be anything other than another expensive mistake. We've got to face facts at this stage and recognise that United not being able to buy anyone truly world class this summer is probably the beginning of a very, very lean period at the club. Players are like rats: they can smell a sinking ship a mile off.

hence why I say a loan arrangement, Juve is another sinking ship, and it''s about time the premiership got something out of these Italien misadventures.

plus, it's more likely to attract a Scandinavian player to the Premiership from the Juve fallout rather tham a latin player, and Zlatan isn't in another stratosphere in the World class player stakes.

[Up For The Ba]

hence why I say a loan arrangement, Juve is another sinking ship, and it''s about time the premiership got something out of these Italien misadventures.

plus, it's more likely to attract a Scandinavian player to the Premiership from the Juve fallout rather tham a latin player, and Zlatan isn't in another stratosphere in the World class player stakes.

I personally wouldnt have him anywhere near the United team, he`s way too inconsistent and goes missing in far too many games for my liking. No doubting his ability but I dont think he`s what we need.

[KolaKubes]

Yeah, the role Scholes played in the run in to the title in 2003. He's be unbelievable in tht position. I really liked that formation, it's very solid yet gives great freedom in attack. It's also what won us the title, made Beckham utterly dispensible, and it's just a shame about what happened to Ole, not to mention the Ronaldinho fiasco. With a proper central midfield unit, it could be put in place again. It doesn't even require a box-to-box player in the mould of Keane at his best.

With all the flak (some of it justified) that CQ has taken, people should remember that he put that formation in place and masterminded the title. That's why Fergie is so keen on him as a number 2. He can't be directly blamed for all that's gone wrong since.

That was the last hurrah for a great group of Utd players though wasn't it in retrospect? They did look bloody good that year though and I've often wondered would things have been very different but for Ferdinand's (crazy) ban and that missed RVN penalty against that cuntish Arsenal side.

For sure
Rossi needs a goal or two for confidence and to fill out a bit and toughen up
Some great skill i see him ultimately in the Scholes role in years to come
Gibson looks the part already and is strong too
Has Steve Staunton picked him yet i wonder

One thing with Rossi is that Rooney has that central, deep-lying forward role for the foreseeable future. He'll either have to re-invent himself as a Pauleta-style front man or be able to play in the slightly wider positions in the three.

Gibson's only enemy is his own lackadaisical attitude at times. Just needs to make sure to grab every moment in the game by the scruff of the neck when he can and drive on. I've seen him do it before in big games for the reserves/youth cup latter stages, he can be a real driving force in games which, when allied to his genuinely outstanding technical ability, is quite fearsome. He's very fucking annoying the way you'll see him put in a cracker of a tackle, you knows he's capable of doing that and the question is why the lack of aggression.

He's certainly good enough for Ireland though, maybe even already.

[STEVIEG]

Er thanks for that

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=407264&CPID=21&clid=120&lid=2&title=Ancelotti+rule s+out+Ronaldo

In other news Mascherano confirms he's not moving to Europe yet
and Gravesen wants to move back to England

Think it's gonna be Senna
Which would please me for the time being

[homer jay]

Think it's gonna be Senna
Which would please me for the time being

i know a lot of bullshit gets thrown around but...

"Villarreal opened the doors to me and the truth is that here I am very contented.

"The squad is being reinforced very well with the arrival of Leandro Somoza, Cani and Robert Pires we have greater depth in midfield.

"I always said that my dream is to be able to win a title with this cub, and this year is a great opportunity to obtain that."

[STEVIEG]

i know a lot of bullshit gets thrown around but...


Yeah he's only got a year left on his contract and more-or-less admitted in another quote that his future is still open
The club haven't ruled it out or even got offended my the speculation

If United want him he's there i reckon, but its all just speculation

[STEVIEG]

Reports from Press Conference unveiling Carrick

Viera was considered by United

Another potential signing progressing well

[bar99]

Try this for a laugh - talk about the ultimate milking of the cow

http://www.manutdpics.com/pictures_8094/Manchester-United-v-Leeds-United.html

[Philby]

I think they've got a good player at an inflated price rather than a great player at a great price but as has been outlined previously the big clubs invariably pay a premium esp. when it's to address a known weakness


Man Utd chief defends Carrick fee




Manchester United chief executive David Gill has defended the transfer fee paid to Tottenham for Michael Carrick.


Gill revealed that the basic fee for the 25-year-old midfielder was £14m, rising to £18.6m depending on the success of the club and the player. "The figure is £14m and that is appropriate," Gill said on Wednesday. "There is a premium on English players but we are very comfortable with the fee, we have got a great player at a great price."

[STEVIEG]

[QUOTE=Philby]as has been outlined previously the big clubs invariably pay a premium esp. when it's to address a known weakness


QUOTE]


True, i like the colour by the way

[Philby]

Dark purple is very slimming don't ya know!

I can't wait for the footie to start. Some of these threads are getting f*ckin painful to read.

[bar99]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5239252.stm

[STEVIEG]

Great stuff

[STEVIEG]

More talk of Kuyt to United in the Dutch press

[STEVIEG]

Dark purple is very slimming don't ya know!

I can't wait for the footie to start. Some of these threads are getting f*ckin painful to read.


Amen to that

[Philby]

More talk of Kuyt to United in the Dutch press

There are rumours of Liverpool upping their bid for him in the next few days too. I think he'd be a useful addition for either team, if the price is right.

[Up For The Ba]

There are rumours of Liverpool upping their bid for him in the next few days too. I think he'd be a useful addition for either team, if the price is right.


I hope Liverpool take him so. I havent seen anything of this guy that really impresses me. If they are looking in Holland, why not Huntelaar? He looks a superior player and he`s younger.

[leeland]

Rumours of Kuyt to United stil flying around, he looks a second tier striker, it would be another backward step if it happens

[STEVIEG]

Yup, i agree he doesn't look any better than the four or five that are there
I know most of us are judging him on one or two appearances in the World Cup but I don't think he is a United player at all
Huntelaar has only recently signed a new contract i think but again the Dutch league can bring a Kezman as easy as a Ruud

[STEVIEG]

Manchester United have all but tied up a deal for youngster Gerard Pique to play on loan at Real Zaragoza for the coming season.

The Catalunya-born centre back was part of the Spanish team which won the European Under-19 Championship this summer, and there are high hopes for him at Old Trafford.

But with four main centre halves already in the ranks in Wes Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Mikael Silvestre, United have decided the 19-year-old would benefit from the experience of top flight football in Spain.

The Liga side will be financially penalised if they do not play the Red Devils starlet in at least 20 games, so the deal has worked out well for both sides.

"Ferguson has a lot of confidence in the kid and the option in Spain is perfect for his progression in the sport," the player's agent Arturo Canales explained.

Pique represents new coach Victor Fernandez's fifth summer signing at the Estadio La Romareda following the arrivals of Juanfran, Sergio Fernandez, Pablo Aimar and Andres D'Alessandro.

He is set to take the number five shirt at Zaragoza, who will now turn their attentions to their negotiations to take Real Madrid's attack-minded full back Carlos Diogo on loan for the season as well.

[Coin]

The Liga side will be financially penalised if they do not play the Red Devils starlet in at least 20 games, so the deal has worked out well for both sides.
Is that normal in loan deals? Can you imagine the Zaragoza fans if he stinks it up in his first couple of games. They're stuck with him for at least 18 more.

[Paddy Wagon]

Could be dangerous, the kid might enjoy being back in his homeland a bit too much...

[STEVIEG]

Is that normal in loan deals? Can you imagine the Zaragoza fans if he stinks it up in his first couple of games. They're stuck with him for at least 18 more.

I found it very curious myself

[Papa Smurf]

Surely a team in the English Championship would have been a better option for united and Pique. I can see why people are worried that a return to Spain may put doubts in a kids mind about returning to England and trying to establish himself in a team like united. Hes been in England for a few years now. Whilst loaning players is obviously the best way of blooding them, he needs all the experience he can get getting up to pace with the English game.

[STEVIEG]

Surely a team in the English Championship would have been a better option for united and Pique. I can see why people are worried that a return to Spain may put doubts in a kids mind about returning to England and trying to establish himself in a team like united. Hes been in England for a few years now. Whilst loaning players is obviously the best way of blooding them, he needs all the experience he can get getting up to pace with the English game.


True, He's even good enough for a lower table Premiership team
To be honest i'm not worried about him falling for Spain, as only two clubs there are as big as united, and the player has already repeatedly stated how badly he wants to make it at Old Trafford

Himself, McShane and Johnny Evans could save United some big money in years to come

[STEVIEG]

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=407532&CPID=23&clid=449&lid=2&title=Villarreal+acc epting+Senna+fate

Rumour that we are talking bout less than 4 mill too

[Paddy Wagon]

Very good player, and would add that bit of bite to the midfield which was lacking at the 2nd half of last season..
Now Sir Alex, Im sure I speak on behalf of the majority of Man U fans, Torres please..

[MonTheHoops]

Torres is over-priced and over-rated. There, I said it.

[Up For The Ba]

Surely a team in the English Championship would have been a better option for united and Pique. I can see why people are worried that a return to Spain may put doubts in a kids mind about returning to England and trying to establish himself in a team like united. Hes been in England for a few years now. Whilst loaning players is obviously the best way of blooding them, he needs all the experience he can get getting up to pace with the English game.

I`d agree, if he performs well there it would undoubtably attract interest from the bigger Spanish clubs. On the flipside its not exactly as if he`s an unknown quantity at this stage, but I`d still have preferred to see him loaned out to the likes of Wigan.

[Up For The Ba]

Torres is over-priced and over-rated. There, I said it.

I`d disagree with that on both counts.

[Paddy Wagon]

He may be over priced but as has been stated here already when Man U are linked with someone there always gonna be overpriced (who isnt overpriced in this day in age anyway)
With regard to him being overrated, I disagree totally. I wouldnt be the most avid of followers of the Primera Liga but when I do watch it, the boy is fantastic.. He's quick, powerfull, great eye for goal, and his touch is first class as he showed in the WC...

[MonTheHoops]

I`d disagree with that on both counts.


And you'd have every right to. I think too many people are looking towards Torres as an answer. Yes he scores goals and that is impossible to buy but I really do not think he adds much else. In that sense he's similar to Van Nistelrooy. I think it's vital that the front six (midfield and strikers) share the goals between them. You want 4 midfielders getting you 12 each on average and two 20 goal strikers. I don't think Torres brings the best out of those around him and is there rather to have the best brought out of him.

That's all well and good until he's injured and the goals around him have dried up.

[Coin]

You want 4 midfielders getting you 12 each on average and two 20 goal strikers.
Thats 88 goals from 6 players. I think that's asking a bit much.

[Up For The Ba]

And you'd have every right to. I think too many people are looking towards Torres as an answer. Yes he scores goals and that is impossible to buy but I really do not think he adds much else. In that sense he's similar to Van Nistelrooy. I think it's vital that the front six (midfield and strikers) share the goals between them. You want 4 midfielders getting you 12 each on average and two 20 goal strikers. I don't think Torres brings the best out of those around him and is there rather to have the best brought out of him.

That's all well and good until he's injured and the goals around him have dried up.

Torres is still quite raw, and whilst he doesnt have the scoring record Van Nistelrooy has, he is a far better all round player and also has lightning pace. If United somehow managed to land him, I`m sure that he could adapt to the team without any problems in a relatively short space of time.

As for over-priced, he`s only 22, £25M wouldnt be unrealistic to pay for a guy with his potential, like Rooney, if anything ever went pear shaped, he should have a really good sell on value.

[MonTheHoops]

Thats 88 goals from 6 players. I think that's asking a bit much.

I don't think so. Obviously if midfielders are being rotated you're looking for a share of that 12 each. I don't think 88 goals is that big a haul over a season for a group of midfielders and your strikers.

[Coin]

I don't think so. Obviously if midfielders are being rotated you're looking for a share of that 12 each. I don't think 88 goals is that big a haul over a season for a group of midfielders and your strikers.
Sorry, I thought you meant six specific players. If you mean three or four strikers filling two spots and seven or eight midfielders filling four spots then fair enough, although I don't think any team has scored that many for a few seasons.

[Papa Smurf]

Valencia are supposedly offering Ayala plus £17m for Ronaldo. This looks to me to be a very reasonable first offer which could allow another big signing possibly Torres? Eventhough united were after Ayala for the past couple of summers, do the really need him now, at 33?


http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1382430 ,00.html

[homer jay]

Valencia are supposedly offering Ayala plus £17m for Ronaldo. This looks to me to be a very reasonable first offer which could allow another big signing possibly Torres? Eventhough united were after Ayala for the past couple of summers, do the really need him now, at 33?


http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1382430 ,00.html

ayala isn't worth much at 33, and i doubt c. ronaldo would go to valencia. but i'd say fergusen would bit their hands off for that price.

[Paddy Wagon]

Ronaldo wont be going anywhere this season, this however will probably be his last for United, Great talent but a cocky little shit all the same..

[Forsberg]

Valencia are supposedly offering Ayala plus £17m for Ronaldo. This looks to me to be a very reasonable first offer which could allow another big signing possibly Torres? Eventhough united were after Ayala for the past couple of summers, do the really need him now, at 33?


http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1382430 ,00.html
Don't believe anything you read on that website

[homer jay]

Don't believe anything you read on that website

i stopped going there after they called zidane a thug. tabloid365.com more like

[Langer Dan]

Ronaldo wont be going anywhere this season, this however will probably be his last for United, Great talent but a cocky little shit all the same..

His final ball is shit.

[dancefreak2003]

His final ball is shit.


OPTA stats had him as the most efficient crosser for the second half of the season

[FL4ZGN]

West Brom have rejected a third bid of £2.5 million for their Polish goalkeeper.

[Rebelred]

Think the Senna signing would be a good move. I think if we can solidify our midfield and attack then we'll have a sound team, but if it turns out like last year and you have a patchwork quilt in the engine room (O'Shea and Fletcher for example), then it's going to be another frustrating year for us. Pique's loan is interesting but he will definitely benefit from regular top level football so I'd be hopeful he can make the breakthrough at old trafford in the near future.

[Rebelred]

purely speculative on my part but according to the on RTE, Luca Toni has been in touch with teams in england and spain, and with Fergie saying that there may be a few more players arrive, and the obvious need to replace Ruud,

could Toni end up at Old Trafford?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0803/toni.html

[FL4ZGN]

purely speculative on my part but according to the on RTE, Luca Toni has been in touch with teams in england and spain, and with Fergie saying that there may be a few more players arrive, and the obvious need to replace Ruud,

could Toni end up at Old Trafford?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0803/toni.html


The most likely player through the door will be Senna, the wizzard has already ruled out Rossi going on loan this season (rejected West Brom) so it looks like the young lad will get some first team action with Saha, Rooney and Ole.

On another note it now looks certain that Pique will go on loan to Real Zaragoza for a year. There is a clause that he must play 20 games or Zaragozo will have to pay a fine.

Looks to be a good move at this stage in his career.

[Langer Dan]

Well their coach has said hes more or less resigned to losing Senna this week.

Id say thats our summer spree over.

An england fringe player and a 30 year old midfielder, outstanding.

[Up For The Ba]

Well their coach has said hes more or less resigned to losing Senna this week.

Id say thats our summer spree over.

An england fringe player and a 30 year old midfielder, outstanding.

Both of whom would make a massive difference to United midfield. Dont discount a bid for Torres yet either.

[Langer Dan]

Both of whom would make a massive difference to United midfield. Dont discount a bid for Torres yet either.

I think the operative word is 'could'.

Still though thanks to the Glazers the days of United bringing in high profile signings is efeectively over.

Chelsea- Ballack+ Sheva vs. Carrick +Senna


hardly comparitive is it?

[Up For The Ba]

Still though thanks to the Glazers the days of United bringing in high profile signings is efeectively over.

Chelsea- Ballack+ Sheva vs. Carrick +Senna


hardly comparitive is it?

No, but it doesnt need to be comparative. If they land Senna, which is looking likely, they will have addressed an area which was ultimately our downfall over the last few years. Senna may be only a temporary solution, but its a hell of a lot better than no solution.

On Torres, he obviously doesnt want to stay with the club long term, why would he, he has two years left on his contract and doesnt look like he`ll sign another one any time soon. This is the clubs last chance to make 20-30M on him, from a financial point of view, it may be foolish not to sell him this summer. Of course a lot of this also boils down to the players personal preference, so we`ll wait and see, i`m hopeful a bid will be imminent.

[STEVIEG]

Yup, Chelsea are in a different financial league its quite simple

Ruud and Veron were similar signings in 2002 and it didnt deliver United anything that season

Its still 11 against 11 and these two signings (if confirmed) will strengthen United
A week ago people wondered aloud if they would make any

it's progress and will make them much more competitive

[STEVIEG]

An england fringe player

The fringe players didn't do as bad as the first team:)

[Philby]

As good as Sheva & Ballack are there's a strong argument to make that the purchases of

Senna & Carrick and
Pennant & Bellamy

may well strengthen their respective clubs more than Chelsea's additions (despite their undoubted class).

[Langer Dan]

No, but it doesnt need to be comparative. If they land Senna, which is looking likely, they will have addressed an area which was ultimately our downfall over the last few years. Senna may be only a temporary solution, but its a hell of a lot better than no solution.

On Torres, he obviously doesnt want to stay with the club long term, why would he, he has two years left on his contract and doesnt look like he`ll sign another one any time soon. This is the clubs last chance to make 20-30M on him, from a financial point of view, it may be foolish not to sell him this summer. Of course a lot of this also boils down to the players personal preference, so we`ll wait and see, i`m hopeful a bid will be imminent.

well Torres would be a fantastic addition to any side. If United do land him Id be thrilled and it would go some way to narrowing the gap.

Lets remember Chelsa have brought in a guarenteed 20 goals a season man whilst we've sold our only forward capable of this.

I fear we'll miss Ruuds goals this season. With Giggs and Scholes both 32 Uniteds midfield is still lookng seriously creaky.

[Captain Planet]

have utd actually signed senna or is it still a work in progress?

[STEVIEG]

well Torres would be a fantastic addition to any side. If United do land him Id be thrilled and it would go some way to narrowing the gap.



True, don't think its gonna happen myself but if they do buy a striker it should be one that is potentially better than Ruud (very hard) rather than being another sub to the rest that they already have

[STEVIEG]

have utd actually signed senna or is it still a work in progress?


Fergie admitted he is probably gonna sign him

[Captain Planet]

Fergie admitted he is probably gonna sign him
ah right. so its really a done deal.

[Langer Dan]

True, don't think its gonna happen myself but if they do buy a striker it should be one that is potentially better than Ruud (very hard) rather than being another sub to the rest that they already have

Yeah I agree, all the speculation seems similar to the fuss made over the Owen link.

Still though, hope springs eternal.
At least we'll have summat resembling a midfield this season.

If United wre serious about challenging Chelsea, Torres is the type of player they have to sign.

[STEVIEG]

ah right. so its really a done deal.


Looks like it but sure ya never know

[STEVIEG]

Looks like Lee Martin is going to Rangers for the year
A good signing for them and i can see the logic of it too for united
He'll surely be good enough for them

[ho chi feen]

Looks like Lee Martin is going to Rangers for the year
A good signing for them and i can see the logic of it too for united
He'll surely be good enough for them

Fuck sake, even Naff's nan would be good enough for them.

[Paddy Wagon]

Mahamadou Diarra
Manchester United have not given up on the hope that they could still sign Mahamadou Diarra.

The Lyon midfielder has long been considered to be one of Sir Alex Ferguson's top transfer targets but the French champions have been determined to hang onto their imposing influence.

French sources claim United have secretly tabled an official bid this week for the highly-rated Mali international, who has impressed at UEFA Champions League level for the Stade Gerland outfit.

Real Madrid remain favourites to snare Diarra and their willingness to splash out around €20 million (£13.5 million) will severely test Lyon's resolve. Coach Fabio Capello wants the former Vitesse Arnhem star to come to Spain and Real would be able to compete in a head-to-head battle with United should l'OL agree to sell the player.

Ferguson's renewed interest in the 25-year-old could explain why the Old Trafford club's move for Villarreal's Marcos Senna has still to be processed.

Although the Yellow Submarines appear willing to sell the Spain international, a deal has not been finalised which has led to the belief that United are waiting on other targets before committing to a transfer. Indeed, Ferguson suggested as much last week.

"We are looking at some other players at this moment in time and I think something will happen next week," Ferguson said ahead of the Amsterdam Tournament last Friday.

"There is interest in Senna but there is interest in other players as well."

Diarra has been on the wanted list at United since impressing against The Red Devils in the Champions League but Real will provide fierce competition for his signature if Lyon do eventually give the green light to a sale, despite the French champions' official statements claiming the African star is staying put.

[STEVIEG]

Still reckon it's Senna but at least there is more substance than the silly 42 million Adriano story!

[STEVIEG]

Still reckon it's Senna but at least there is more substance than the silly 42 million Adriano story!


Or maybe not

These guys are a good source normally we'll see

http://manchesterunited.riv als.net/default.asp?sid=891&p=2&stid=8418928

[Papa Smurf]

Adriano isnt worth half of that 42m. Hes to hot and cold ( feckin lazy), which certainly wont suit United. Torres even if expensive is the way to go, hes got it all i.m.h.o

[STEVIEG]

Yeah he's lazy alright-Zlatan has gone to Inter too the 42 million euros has to be crap and even though its widely reported i dont believe it

United are being linked to Arteta aswell!

Anything can happen but one solid holding player and i'll be happy

[Paddy Wagon]

Or maybe not

These guys are a good source normally we'll see

http://manchesterunited.riv als.net/default.asp?sid=891&p=2&stid=8418928
Until someone signs these stories are gonna keep appearing..

[STEVIEG]

Manchester United target Marcos Senna is unconcerned that his proposed move has still not happened.

Villarreal have been locked in talks with United for some time now over a transfer for the Spanish international.

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed his interest in Senna and is keen to bring him to Old Trafford.

However, the move has yet to happen as both clubs haggle over the fee for the 30-year-old.

Senna is not worried about the delay and is just waiting for things to progress.

"The situation does not worry me, I am very contented at Villarreal, so whatever happens with Manchester I will be well," Senna told AS.

"The only thing I can say is that my representative continues speaking with them (United).

"Hopefully an agreement can be reached that could see me go to Manchester, but it would be no misfortune if I don't.

"This is my home. I have been here for some years and if I had to remain it would make me happy.

"In addition the club has opened the doors to me at all moments

"The only thing I want to do is train well. At the moment I do not think about anything else.

"One thing is clear is that I have one year left on my contract and my head only thinks of Villarreal.

"I am very calm because of the team I have."
ehsanul is offline Report Bad Post Reply With Quote

[Langer Dan]

Yeah he sounds desperate to mve to uNITED ALRIGHT.

[Rebelred]

Yeah he's lazy alright-Zlatan has gone to Inter too the 42 million euros has to be crap and even though its widely reported i dont believe it

United are being linked to Arteta aswell!

Anything can happen but one solid holding player and i'll be happy
I don't believe the Adriano story at all, hopefully we can tie up the Senna deal soon, its beginning to drag out, which always worries me

[Coin]

Manchester United target Marcos Senna is unconcerned that his proposed move has still not happened.

Villarreal have been locked in talks with United for some time now over a transfer for the Spanish international.

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed his interest in Senna and is keen to bring him to Old Trafford.

However, the move has yet to happen as both clubs haggle over the fee for the 30-year-old.

Senna is not worried about the delay and is just waiting for things to progress.

"The situation does not worry me, I am very contented at Villarreal, so whatever happens with Manchester I will be well," Senna told AS.

"The only thing I can say is that my representative continues speaking with them (United).

"Hopefully an agreement can be reached that could see me go to Manchester, but it would be no misfortune if I don't.

"This is my home. I have been here for some years and if I had to remain it would make me happy.

"In addition the club has opened the doors to me at all moments

"The only thing I want to do is train well. At the moment I do not think about anything else.

"One thing is clear is that I have one year left on my contract and my head only thinks of Villarreal.

"I am very calm because of the team I have."
ehsanul is offline Report Bad Post Reply With Quote
Translation: This is probably going to get done, but there's a small chance it could get messed up and I need to keep the Villareal fans on my side just in case anything goes wrong.

[dotty]

seems to be taking an age for the deal to go through which concerns me,we are talking about a player who is 30,in the last year of his contract,only one year champions league experience,god only knows how much utd will pay for him.

[Rebelred]

seems to be taking an age for the deal to go through which concerns me,we are talking about a player who is 30,in the last year of his contract,only one year champions league experience,god only knows how much utd will pay for him.
anything between 20 to 30 million so

[STEVIEG]

I don't see the big problem there's three weeks left

United are gonna get him for about 4 milion if they want him

Senna is obviously doing the smart thing (as Coin said) by not begging for the move

And as i've said many times
He is a fine player, arriving at the same age as Makelele to Chelsea if he does, who was excelleent last year in the champions leage and la liga

He can tackle and pass and score goals
I hope United get him

[Up For The Ba]

seems to be taking an age for the deal to go through which concerns me,we are talking about a player who is 30,in the last year of his contract,only one year champions league experience,god only knows how much utd will pay for him.

Well the most obvious reason I could think of for a delay is that they are still hot on the tail of Diarra, otherwise the Senna transfer should have been done and dusted, the player wants to go, the club are willing to accept a reasonable offer and United have expressed an interest. There must be a good reason for this to have stalled for so long.

[Forsberg]

United sign Kuzcshak

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=40909 8&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=UNITED+CLINCH+ KUSZCZAK+CAPTURE

Manchester United have signed goalkeeper Tomasz Kuszczak from West Brom on a season-long loan.

The Baggies were keen to hold onto the Polish international and repelled three bids from the Red Devils, but have finally relented and allowed him to head out to Old Trafford.

Sir Alex Ferguson set his sights firmly on Kuszczak earlier this summer, despite possessing the reliable Edwin van der Sar and promising youngster Ben Foster.

He had expected the deal to be tied up when United returned from their pre-season tour of South Africa, but has had to wait until West Brom felt they had been offered a fair deal.

More to follow

[Langer Dan]

Manchester United have signed Polish goalkeeper Tomasz Kuszczak on a season-long loan from West Brom, with a view to a possible permanent move.
In exchange, the Baggies will get defender Paul McShane and goalkeeper Luke Steele on a permanent basis.

Surely only in the event of a permenant move?

[STEVIEG]

Manchester United have signed Polish goalkeeper Tomasz Kuszczak on a season-long loan from West Brom, with a view to a possible permanent move.
In exchange, the Baggies will get defender Paul McShane and goalkeeper Luke Steele on a permanent basis.

Surely only in the event of a permenant move?


No they are gone to West Brom permanently
Good signings by Robbo, particularly young McShane who is a decent prospect
The development of Johnny Evans and the fact that Brown, Rio, Vidic and even O'Shea and Silvestre are ahead of him in the pecking order, make a breakthrough at United unlikely however
It's a pity, i thought he was good in pre-season but i suppose the maanger reckons he is too small for the Premiership
Steele was never really gonna make it unfortunately
Foster is now back on loan (he needs it) as is Howard
United will choose between Kuszchack and the others at the end of the season, but Fergie now has experienced back up for the Edwin and hasn't spent the 4 million which will most likely go to areas that he needs to strengthen

[STEVIEG]

Kuzczsack is permanent deal after all
Kuszczak handed permanent deal
By Alex Livie - Created on 11 Aug 2006
.

Manchester United have confirmed that they have handed a permanent contract to Polish keeper Tomasz Kuszczak.

The Red Devils completed the capture of the 24-year-old from West Brom on Thursday, but it was claimed that the deal was a loan move with a view to a permanent arrangement.

However, United have now confirmed that the player has made a permanent move to Old Trafford - with Paul McShane and Luke Steele heading in the opposite direction - although the first season is, somewhat curiously, being classed as a loan.

"Tomasz will be a Manchester United player for the next four years," said United chief executive David Gill.

"He has come to us on loan for the first year and then will join us permanently in July 2007.

"We would not have been interested in signing any player, even as one as good as Tomasz, on loan.

"We would hope Tomasz remains a Manchester United player for many years to come."






Gill also hinted today at "one or two more"
More rumours of Hargreaves while Senna is still there for the taking so we'll see

Smith looked nearly there in training today aswell and Vidic is back from his injury
Only Rio, Rooney and Gary Nev didn't train

[homer jay]

Smith looked nearly there in training today

he came back fairly quick didn't he?

[STEVIEG]

he came back fairly quick didn't he?


Yeah absolutely only a few matches off now

[afeencalleddan]

Fergie now has experienced back up for the EdwinGreat shotstopper and generally an excellent keeper but prone to Danny Baker video style errors at times. He'll need to improve at United.

[STEVIEG]

Great shotstopper and generally an excellent keeper but prone to Danny Baker video style errors at times. He'll need to improve at United.


One high profile error for Poland but i think he's improved a lot he'll defo have to step up now though

[afeencalleddan]

One high profile error for Poland but i think he's improved a lot he'll defo have to step up now thoughEhhh... He made a very bad error against Spurs towards the end of the Prem season too.

[Actin The Sham]

From The Sun:

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has had his hospitality suite decked out with old car parts, including coat hangers made out of gearsticks, car seats for sofas and rear-view mirrors embedded into the walls. Fergie is hoping the changes will put United in the driving seat for the Premiership title.

[STEVIEG]

Ehhh... He made a very bad error against Spurs towards the end of the Prem season too.


Yeah I was saying he made one huge one fro Ploand which is well documented
I'm sure he's made many more like the one you've mentioned ( i remember that now actually it was a howler)
I was just using it as an example
He also made the save of the season against Wigan last year but overall i think he is gonna be someone that you would prefer to throw in a big game against someone like Madrid or Chelsea before Foster, who still needs more big game experience

[afeencalleddan]

Yeah I was saying he made one huge one fro Ploand which is well documented
I'm sure he's made many more like the one you've mentioned ( i remember that now actually it was a howler)
I was just using it as an example
He also made the save of the season against Wigan last year but overall i think he is gonna be someone that you would prefer to throw in a big game against someone like Madrid or Chelsea before Foster, who still needs more big game experienceOh definitely he's an excellent keeper but needs to make that extra 5 - 10% improvement to make it big at a club like United.

[STEVIEG]

Oh definitely he's an excellent keeper but needs to make that extra 5 - 10% improvement to make it big at a club like United.


Yup even more i'd say, he's gonna be learning from a good keeper too but it's a big difference when you are expected not to lose games

[STEVIEG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4784199.stm

[STEVIEG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4784587.stm

[STEVIEG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/4783397.stm

[Papa Smurf]

I was well impressed by him last year. The future looks good for a position in which united have struggled since the Schmeichel era. Without wanting to state the obvious Van Der Sar is doing a great job at the moment. But with Foster returning after his loans spell and todays signing the future looks good post Van Der Sar.

[STEVIEG]

I was well impressed by him last year. The future looks good for a position in which united have struggled since the Schmeichel era. Without wanting to state the obvious Van Der Sar is doing a great job at the moment. But with Foster returning after his loans spell and todays signing the future looks good post Van Der Sar.


Yup, agreed, i'd say Foster has the edge of Howard for the potential number 3 but they will both be trying their best on loan this year to get back to United

[ho chi feen]

Well the most obvious reason I could think of for a delay is that they are still hot on the tail of Diarra, otherwise the Senna transfer should have been done and dusted, the player wants to go, the club are willing to accept a reasonable offer and United have expressed an interest. There must be a good reason for this to have stalled for so long.

They should be signing both Diarra & Senna, if you ask me. I don't want to see fathead O'Shea or Smithy anywhere near our midfield anytime soon, thankyouverymuch.

[Rebelred]

They should be signing both Diarra & Senna, if you ask me. I don't want to see fathead O'Shea or Smithy anywhere near our midfield anytime soon, thankyouverymuch.
It looks like they are stalling on the Senna deal to see if they can get Diarra, which, seeing how United been conducting transfers over the past 5 years, means we could well end up without either of them, which would be very bad news for the club

[Langer Dan]

Fergie trying to justify stalling transfer policy?

Sir Alex Ferguson has insisted Manchester United will not be taken for mugs in the transfer market.

Despite being linked with scores of potential signings, Ferguson has brought only two new players to Old Trafford this summer, paying £18.6million for Michael Carrick before completing the capture of West Brom keeper Tomasz Kuszczak on Thursday.

The Scot remains in the hunt for extra midfield cover, with Villarreal's Marcos Senna and Bayern Munich's England international Owen Hargreaves of interest.

But Ferguson refuses to be drawn into spending the 'cavalier' amounts of money Chelsea have been splashing out, claiming it is now time for United to take a stand against clubs trying to milk them for every possible penny.

"I know this summer has been frustrating but there comes a point when you realise you can only take so much," Ferguson told United Review.

"This close season has driven the point home even more that people are looking at Manchester United like a milch cow.

"Perhaps it is the cavalier amounts of money Chelsea have been spending which has upped the ante because the asking prices these days have soared to ridiculously high levels.

"It is as if the thinking is that if Chelsea can afford such and such, then we can expect Manchester United to pay through the nose as well.

"But it has got to the point where you can only take so much and I want to make it clear that we are not going to be taken for mugs."

Ferguson's comments come amid claims he has severely overpaid for Carrick, although the United boss revealed he has been an admirer of the England international for some time.

His observations are probably directed towards his hunt for a striker to replace Ruud van Nistelrooy.

It was widely assumed Fernando Torres would fill the void but even though Atletico Madrid climbed down from their initial asking price in excess of £40million for the Spanish international, Ferguson was unwilling to part with £25million for a player still relatively unproven at top-class level.

[Up For The Ba]

They should be signing both Diarra & Senna, if you ask me. I don't want to see fathead O'Shea or Smithy anywhere near our midfield anytime soon, thankyouverymuch.

I agree with you, but I`d doubt it will happen. The focus seems to be on adding one more midfielder and a striker. I would personally prefer to see Senna and a quality forward arriving rather than Senna and Diarra. If they signed both I couldnt see them signing a forward too.

[STEVIEG]

I agree with you, but I`d doubt it will happen. The focus seems to be on adding one more midfielder and a striker. I would personally prefer to see Senna and a quality forward arriving rather than Senna and Diarra. If they signed both I couldnt see them signing a forward too.


Yup, and remember, Smith will also be used in that position and won't play in midfield anymore
Ronaldo is playing in a very attacking role today off Saha against Seville, but that's due to injuries and stuff

[afeencalleddan]

Yup, and remember, Smith will also be used in that position and won't play in midfield anymore
Ronaldo is playing in a very attacking role today off Saha against Seville, but that's due to injuries and stuffI seem to recall a commentator saying during the world cup that Ronaldo himself prefers that position.

[STEVIEG]

I seem to recall a commentator saying during the world cup that Ronaldo himself prefers that position.


Yeah, he's actually switching with Giggs quite a bit during this game but they are two players that United can put in there if stuck

altogether they can play Rooney, Rossi, Ole, Saha, Giggs, Ronaldo, Scholes upfront so they are not as short as people think, though i would welcome another quality striker as Ronaldo isn't really a striker per se

[STEVIEG]

3-0

Saha
Ronaldo
David Jones

Piece of piss in the end against a useful enough team
Alves may be good going forward but Giggs and Ronaldo destroyed him today when he was playing right back


United are goint to be short some big players against Fulham but hopefully this team will have enough

[ho chi feen]

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Blue"]Sir Alex Ferguson has insisted Manchester United will not be taken for mugs in the transfer market.


LMFAO

Or not, as the case may be.

[dotty]

another goal for ronaldo,didnt see any highlights or the game but the match reports suggest another good performance and thankfully no more injuries to report (yet).

[STEVIEG]

Yeah Ronaldo was very good
Set up Saha nicely for a goal too

No injuries i don't think, it was comfortable enough overall once United scored

[KolaKubes]

Utd were poor with O'Shea his usual pedestrian self in midfield. Silvestre is an accident waiting to happen as always.

I found it a bit disappointing that he turned back to so-so "senior" players like that when some of the kids were superb pre-season.

I don't know, if Utd buy another player or two in coming fortnight it could be a different story but we might have to wait another year for the genuinely outstanding crop of youngsters we have to fully mature.

Things are looking really rosy in the medium term though. Evans, Gibson, Martin, Rossi, Simpson are going to be the backbone of a great side I reckon.

I think we could see big seasons from Richardson and Evra this year too though, having both taken some stick in their time. People forget that Richardson's only a kid and he's really shaping up now while Evra's been a real dynamo at full back against some decent teams.

Dare I say it, he could even displace Heinze from the slot, who's arguably a bit out of position there.

[quincyk]

anyone of ye a member on the redissue site?

[Rebelred]

anyone of ye a member on the redissue site?
I use United we stand

[quincyk]

I use United we stand

Thats fairly shite mate isnt it?>

go to redissue.co.uk

its a right laugh

[STEVIEG]

The format of the site ain't great but i prefer UWS too, the fanzine is also far superior

Red Issue has it's moments too but theres' too many fuckers i can't stand on it while Red Cafe is probably a good middle ground

[storysham]

Villarreal midfielder Marcos Senna remains "confident" he will be a Manchester United player before the transfer window shuts.
The Brazilian-born Spain international has been heavily linked with a move to Old Trafford in recent weeks, although there have been reports Villarreal were looking for more than double the £4million the Red Devils have currently offered.
But the 30-year-old claims the two clubs will hold further talks on Monday with a view to finalising a deal that would grant Senna a "dream" move.
He told the News of the World: "I can't wait, it's a dream come true.
"It has been an objective in my career to always look to improve and look for something bigger - and Manchester is the biggest.
"I think the situation will resolve itself this week and I am confident I will be a United player."

[Up For The Ba]

Evra's been a real dynamo at full back against some decent teams.

Dare I say it, he could even displace Heinze from the slot, who's arguably a bit out of position there.

You`ve got to be joking me. Evra is a wonderful footballer but his defensive duties, especially his positioning leaves a lot to be desired. No competition for Heinze whatsoever.

[KolaKubes]

You`ve got to be joking me. Evra is a wonderful footballer but his defensive duties, especially his positioning leaves a lot to be desired. No competition for Heinze whatsoever.

Utd will play with a 4-2-3-1 formation this year and will need some additional width that the full backs will provide.

Heinze is mediocre going forward.

I think in the bigger games I'd go with Heinze left back but Evra could be a more than useful deputy for a lot of games against weaker opposition.

Evra was on UEFA team of the year in 2004 on merit, bad start at Utd (he'll never be forgiven by the Mancs for being so poor in the derby I reckon) but he seems to be motoring again now.

[dotty]

Utd will play with a 4-2-3-1 formation this year and will need some additional width that the full backs will provide.

Heinze is mediocre going forward.

I think in the bigger games I'd go with Heinze left back but Evra could be a more than useful deputy for a lot of games against weaker opposition.

Evra was on UEFA team of the year in 2004 on merit, bad start at Utd (he'll never be forgiven by the Mancs for being so poor in the derby I reckon) but he seems to be motoring again now.

felt for him really being thrown in at the deep end more or less against city relying on silvestre to get him through the game,interesting to see how he gets on in his first full season.

[STEVIEG]

Hargreaves: 'Manchester United offer is fantastic'
Owen Hargreaves desperate to join Manchester United

The England international won over his doubters with a splendid showing at the World Cup finals as he won the Man of the Match award for the penalty shoot-out defeat to Portugal.

Hargreaves has always expressed a desire to play in The Premiership and the opportunity to move to United is one he is itching to accept.

Sir Alex Ferguson has turned to the tenacious tackler, even though he is under contract until 2010, after it looks like he will lose the race for his top target - Lyon's Mahamadou Diarra.

The Mali international has expressed a desire to join Real Madrid as the Spanish giants seem certain to fight off the competition from Old Trafford.

"The offer from Manchester United is fantastic," Hargreaves told Bild.

"It's especially enticing for me as an England international, and you never know if the opportunity will present itself again.

"Now it's time for me to take the next step and develop myself further [as a player]."

"Herr [Dieter] Hoeness knows what a unique opportunity this is for me."

Bayern, however, will not let the Wales-born player leave cheaply and coach Felix Magath has already stressed his opposition to any deal.

"Selling Hargreaves has never been on our agenda," said Magath.

United have only signed Michael Carrick and back-up keeper Thomas Kuszczack this summer as they attempt to mount a serious Premiership challenge to champions Chelsea.

[Sound]

I'd consider Hargreaves a very good signing. But is this confirmation of how much his stock has risen or confirmation of how Utd have fallen that they are now considering a player that Spurs weren't arsed with?

[Philby]

He's an improvement on what they have: young, enthusiastic, energetic, pretty experienced but, like Carrick, will never be world-class IMHO. Would provide a steady option for defensive midfield but wouldn't form a particularly formidable partnership in the middle compared to united's rivals

Hargreaves & Carrick
Alonso/Sissoko & Gerrard
Gilberto & Fabregas
Makalele & Ballack/Lampard

Also this "offer" - does it exist or is it just conceptual?

[xvis]

the length of time these transfers are taking nowadays the Hargreaves deal should be done by the January window.

..a couple of years ago you could be having a spot of lunch with a few fellow managers and by the time it'd moved onto a few post dessert brandies *bang* ..£1.2m striker in the bag from a rival club.

ffs these Senna etc deals aren't half dragging on ....way too many agents involved. Hargreaves would be a good addition, and at 25, a good age.

[dancefreak2003]

Bayern dismiss United bid
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Bayern Munich will not be listening to offers for midfielder Owen Hargreaves, despite interest from Manchester United.

The England international had expressed an interest in a move to Old Trafford, but it seems he will be seeing out his contract with the Bundesliga champions.

"I have just spoken with (general manager) Uli Hoeness and he is absolutely clear that selling Owen Hargreaves is not an issue," said Bayern press officer Markus Horwick.

"He has recently signed a three-year contract extension and will be fulfilling that deal."

Pressed on whether Bayern may alter their stance should a serious offer be received from Manchester United, Horwick reiterated that Hargreaves is not for sale.

"I think what Mr Hoeness says is enough to end any speculation," he added.

"Owen Hargreaves will be staying with us for the remainder of the four years on his contract."

Hargreaves, who starred at the World Cup, has admitted there was still time before the transfer window closes on August 31 to fill the hole at the base of United's midfield.

On Wednesday, he confirmed in an interview with Sport Bild magazine that United had made an offer which he would struggle to turn down.

"I have certainly played more than 200 games for Bayern and that has been a very important part of my career, but now I have got to take the next step in my development," said the 25-year-old.

"I have more of an affinity with the Premier League now than I ever have before."

Hargreaves, who has previously snubbed the chance to play in England when Tottenham came knocking on his door, is hopeful the Bavarian club will listen to his request to leave.

He added: "The offer from Manchester United is fantastic. Mr Hoeness knows what an opportunity this is for me."

However, after losing Michael Ballack to Chelsea this summer, Bayern are not prepared to let another key midfielder go.

Coach Felix Magath intends to get the best of Hargreaves in a Bayern shirt this season.

"I am not planning to get rid of any players, particularly not Hargreaves - it has never been an issue," he said after training on Wednesday.

[Up For The Ba]

He's an improvement on what they have: young, enthusiastic, energetic, pretty experienced but, like Carrick, will never be world-class IMHO. Would provide a steady option for defensive midfield but wouldn't form a particularly formidable partnership in the middle compared to united's rivals

Hargreaves & Carrick
Alonso/Sissoko & Gerrard
Gilberto & Fabregas
Makalele & Ballack/Lampard

Also this "offer" - does it exist or is it just conceptual?

If United did sign Hargreaves, i think the midfield quartet that would available at Uniteds disposal would be well equipped to match any other in the premiership. You dont need to be the most talented player in the world to do a job in the middle of the park, Hargreaves certainly has an engine that was severely lacking since Keane left, and he`s not prepared to put the boot in either. World Class is touted around too much these days, look no further than Lampard. Keane was the best at what he did, which was simple, effective football. Was he the most talented footballer in the premiership? Far from it. Did he need to be?? Absolutely not. If Hargreaves came and did the same, i`d be delighted.

Last season you made the comment that Liverpools midfield would be too dynamic for United, well it wasnt really was it? United stifled their game by hard work, something which they didnt do consistently last year becuse lets be honest the players at their disposal werent up to it. Carrick and Hargreaves may not be rated as World Class, who cares, they didnt really need someone World Class in this role, its still a 100% improvement on what was there. I hope this happens.

On the subject of World Class, they may need someone in that mould to replace Ruud alright, the only bad thing about going for Hargreaves if this is true, would be that it would surely stifle a big bid for his replacement.

[KolaKubes]

I think Fergie has one eye on the development of David Jones and particularly Darron Gibson with his midfield recruitments this summer. I'd say he'd be anxious not to put in place young players who are never really going to hit the heights when Gibson certainly is capable of that. Say what you want about Carrick but he's good raw material and noone can fairly say that he won't develop into a top quality player for Utd. Hargreaves, hmm, I don't know, I think I'd rather see Senna arrive than throw large amounts of cash at Munich for his services. Senna was outstanding for Villarreal last year and breaking into the Spanish team ahead of some of the options they had was no mean feat. I think Carrick and Senna would give us a great base for the season as regardless of the questionable "damage" wrought by RVN's departure, Utd can still put out a forward line that's as good, perhaps better, than anything our rivals can.

[homer jay]

Senna was outstanding for Villarreal last year and breaking into the Spanish team ahead of some of the options they had was no mean feat.

no offence to the guy, but if he was good enough, he would have broken into the spanish team before now. getting his first cap at 29.

[STEVIEG]

no offence to the guy, but if he was good enough, he would have broken into the spanish team before now. getting his first cap at 29.

Yeah but it's not that simple
He's Brazilian, and has only declared for Spain relatively recently
Holding midfielders are not exactly fashionable in Brazil, he's also had other problems such as a drugs ban
Villareal are highly unfashionable too, and as we know from Sven Goran Erikson, international managers are often pretty clueless
Senna is very good and was one of the best players in the champions Legaue last year, he did a lot of the donkey work that enabled Riquelme (who doesn't track back) to be creative

I still think it will be Hargreaves but it might be expensive
I'd settle for either of them

[homer jay]

Yeah but it's not that simple
He's Brazilian, and has only declared for Spain relatively recently
Holding midfielders are not exactly fashionable in Brazil, he's also had other problems such as a drugs ban
Villareal are highly unfashionable too, and as we know from Sven Goran Erikson, international managers are often pretty clueless
Senna is very good and was one of the best players in the champions Legaue last year, he did a lot of the donkey work that enabled Riquelme (who doesn't track back) to be creative

I still think it will be Hargreaves but it might be expensive
I'd settle for either of them

i knew he was brazilian alright, but thanks for the info.

its looking like it'll be hargreaves, especially after him nearly wetting himself talking about utd the other day. its strange the senna deal seems to be falling thru, £4m ain't that much money. hargreaves will be a lot more than that, especially if bayern play hard ball.

[Philby]

Despite his age Senna represents a far better option than Hargreaves if the fees being bandied about are close to the mark. £4m for Senna Vs £13m for Hargreaves. No contest. Despite Hargreaves' versatility Senna is a superior player in the holding midfield role.

What would be united fans' take on spending up to £31m on the Hargreaves/Carrick combination? It'd give me nightmares to be honest. Spectacularly over-priced, surely if Hargreaves is agitating for a move united could force down the fee?

[STEVIEG]

i knew he was brazilian alright, but thanks for the info.

its looking like it'll be hargreaves, especially after him nearly wetting himself talking about utd the other day. its strange the senna deal seems to be falling thru, £4m ain't that much money. hargreaves will be a lot more than that, especially if bayern play hard ball.


Yeah, Senna is on the plate if they want him but United are thinking, it might be better to splash a few million extra on a player who is about 5 or 6 years younger

If they can agree a fee, it wil be Hargreaves
If not, Senna wil still sign
If not, Darren Fletcher and john O Shea, oh wait.............:)

[STEVIEG]

What would be united fans' take on spending up to £31m on the Hargreaves/Carrick combination? It'd give me nightmares to be honest. Spectacularly over-priced, surely if Hargreaves is agitating for a move united could force down the fee?


I wouldn't give a shit to be honest
They are both young and will make United a lot stronger in the middle
Only Chelsea, of the big teams, beat United last year in the premiership, and that was when the league was effectively over, a stronger united might give more people nightmares than you'd think

[Forsberg]

I find this Hargreaves situation hilarious. Firstly I actually think he's a good player and have always thought that. But I can't understand how quickly and easily the general consensus on hin has changed .

Before the world cup , there was a few guys on here ( can't remember who they are off hand) who were slating him , and slating Eriksson for picking him for England. There were a few claims that he must have some dirt on Eriksson , seeing as that he keeps picking him.

He was roundly booed by enlish fans when he came on against Paraguay. Now people are saying that he'll be one of the first names on Mclarens teamsheet. This all because of one good performance against Portugal and a couple of decent performances before that.

so now he's being linked with a 13m move to United and nobody seems to be batting an eyelid. I've always rated him and even I think thats too much for someone who's no more than a good utility palyer.

[Up For The Ba]

Despite his age Senna represents a far better option than Hargreaves if the fees being bandied about are close to the mark. £4m for Senna Vs £13m for Hargreaves. No contest. Despite Hargreaves' versatility Senna is a superior player in the holding midfield role.

What would be united fans' take on spending up to £31m on the Hargreaves/Carrick combination? It'd give me nightmares to be honest. Spectacularly over-priced, surely if Hargreaves is agitating for a move united could force down the fee?

United already have taken £10m for Ruud and £12M for Obi Mikel. They only paid somewhere in the region of £14M for Carrick so far, and the Hargreaves deal is said to be in the region of £13M. Not much of an imbalance really.

My only concern would be that the signing of Hargreaves as opposed to Senna may possibly restrict United signing a quality forward. I said it before and i`m even more convinced after last night, Huntelaar would be ideal.

Incidently, is it true Liverpool are paying £18M for Kuyt? If so, how do you feel about that?

[STEVIEG]

I find this Hargreaves situation hilarious. Firstly I actually think he's a good player and have always thought that. But I can't understand how quickly and easily the general consensus on hin has changed .

Before the world cup , there was a few guys on here ( can't remember who they are off hand) who were slating him , and slating Eriksson for picking him for England. There were a few claims that he must have some dirt on Eriksson , seeing as that he keeps picking him.

He was roundly booed by enlish fans when he came on against Paraguay. Now people are saying that he'll be one of the first names on Mclarens teamsheet. This all because of one good performance against Portugal and a couple of decent performances before that.

so now he's being linked with a 13m move to United and nobody seems to be batting an eyelid. I've always rated him and even I think thats too much for someone who's no more than a good utility palyer.

English fans = Tabloid media = muppets

United should have made their move before the world cup if they wanted him cheaper , but again, there's other factors

1-His first choice was Diara who is probably joining madrid, but the deal could have fallen though at any time and united could have got him cheaper
This has only become truly apparent in the last week or so

2-He also wanted to wait for the outcome of the Italian situation, Viera and Gattuso could have been cheap, they weren't

3-Like Carrick, if he buys it will be a hefty price, but remember Spurs, didnt want to do business before the World Cup, and its likely Bayern, interested in Ruud, would do the same

[STEVIEG]

United already have taken £10m for Ruud and £12M for Obi Mikel. They only paid somewhere in the region of £14M for Carrick so far, and the Hargreaves deal is said to be in the region of £13M. Not much of an imbalance really.

My only concern would be that the signing of Hargreaves as opposed to Senna may possibly restrict United signing a quality forward. I said it a before and i`m even more convinced after last night, Huntelaar would be ideal.

Incidently, is it true Liverpool are pyaing £18M for Kuyt? If so, how do you feel about that?


Kuyt isn't that expensive i don't think

I also don't think Fergie is gonna sign a striker unless something great comes up and im happy enough with that, even though its risky theres a number of options

Saha
Rooney
Ole (great last night agaisnt Brazil)
Smith
Rossi
Giggs
Ronaldo

[Up For The Ba]

Kuyt isn't that expensive i don't think

I also don't think Fergie is gonna sign a striker unless something great comes up and im happy enough with that, even though its risky theres a number of options

Saha
Rooney
Ole (great last night agaisnt Brazil)
Smith
Rossi
Giggs
Ronaldo

I stand corrected on Kuyt, I think its around £10m by the sounds of things.

Anyway, on the subject of strikers.... Giggs and Ronaldo are options in the event of a crisis, Ole is a good option but age isnt on his side. This should be Rossi`s year to start some sort of a breakthrough, I still see him as more of a Scholes though. Smith is a competetive player but will never be prolific. Saha I always rated very highly, but has he ever gone through a full season? I wouldnt mind signing another striker, but the priority should obviously still be getting another midfielder first.

[STEVIEG]

I stand corrected on Kuyt, I think its around £10m by the sounds of things.

Anyway, on the subject of strikers.... Giggs and Ronaldo are options in the event of a crisis, Ole is a good option but age isnt on his side. This should be Rossi`s year to start some sort of a breakthrough, I still see him as more of a Scholes though. Smith is a competetive player but will never be prolific. Saha I always rated very highly, but has he ever gone through a full season? I wouldnt mind signing another striker, but the priority should obviously still be getting another midfielder first.


I agree on more or less all of those points
The key man is Saha he got 15 goals in 30 or something last season, but as we all know, he has legs made of glass
I'm sure the right man came up for 7 or 8 million, he'd buy another, but i reckon the top buys are gonna cost about 25 (Torres) and could be out of reach this year
Incidentally, i think he might try something to that effect in the January window but ya never know

[leeland]

I would say that Uniteds chief scout should be sacked but then there's not much chance of that. Ferguson can't seem to spot talent any more, he waits until the fee gets inflated. The problem with Saha is that he's liable to be injured by September, then who is going to be the main striker? who is going to bang in the goals?

[STEVIEG]

I would say that Uniteds chief scout should be sacked but then there's not much chance of that. Ferguson can't seem to spot talent any more, he waits until the fee gets inflated. The problem with Saha is that he's liable to be injured by September, then who is going to be the main striker? who is going to bang in the goals?


Good point on the scouting but i think there's goals all over the team

Rooney, Scholes, Ronaldo, Giggs, Ole and whoever else is in there, can all score, and Saha might actually get a run of fitness (fingers crossed)

[Che Mourinho]

Can you really play Carrick with Senna or Hargreaves? Those sort of combinations would be very much of a holding type, but zero goals and breaks into the box from central midfield, fierce pressure on the wings and frontmen. It all depends on Scholes (or even Giggs in central mid?) as that would be a much better balance with Carrick or the others. I'm not sure exactly what Fergie's ideas for midfield are, but he definitely feels Scholes is still the man. I hope so, but possibly bit of a risk.

One of United's biggest problems in the last couple of seasons, hasn't just been the defensive side of midfield, but also the lack of goals coming from there, putting a lot of pressure on Ruud and Rooney. Maybe Ronaldo's shots/goal ratio will improve....

[STEVIEG]

Can you really play Carrick with Senna or Hargreaves? Those sort of combinations would be very much of a holding type, but zero goals and breaks into the box from central midfield, fierce pressure on the wings and frontmen. It all depends on Scholes (or even Giggs in central mid?) as that would be a much better balance with Carrick or the others. I'm not sure exactly what Fergie's ideas for midfield are, but he definitely feels Scholes is still the man. I hope so, but possibly bit of a risk.

One of United's biggest problems in the last couple of seasons, hasn't just been the defensive side of midfield, but also the lack of goals coming from there, putting a lot of pressure on Ruud and Rooney. Maybe Ronaldo's shots/goal ratio will improve....


I think he see's Hargreaves/Senna as more defensive and Carrick and Scholes as more the guys to pick a pass up front
I think the Ruud move will mean more goals from midfield United are a lot more varied without him in the team
Ronaldo should get 15 at least if fit , without a doubt
Whether it hapens is another story

[Che Mourinho]

Ronaldo should get 15 at least if fit , without a doubt
Whether it hapens is another story

I'm a pretty optimistic person and United fan, but Stevie you really take the biscuit sometimes, with your support for United :) I hope you're right with everything you say....here's hoping!

[STEVIEG]

Heh heh
Forgot Giggs too, as you mentioned, he will be a utility players this season, playing mainly as cover for Central Mid but possibly as a striker or wideman the odd time too

Ronaldo will probably take the pens aswell

[exiledcorkman]

If hargreaves does come in, Uniteds system will change to a 4-1-2-3 or something like that..

Carrick, Hargreaves and Scholes will play as the midfield, Saha up top with Rooney and Ronaldo in behind..

[homer jay]

If hargreaves does come in, Uniteds system will change to a 4-1-2-3 or something like that..

Carrick, Hargreaves and Scholes will play as the midfield, Saha up top with Rooney and Ronaldo in behind..

a serious lack of width there.

[Forsberg]

If hargreaves does come in, Uniteds system will change to a 4-1-2-3 or something like that..

Carrick, Hargreaves and Scholes will play as the midfield, Saha up top with Rooney and Ronaldo in behind..
I wouldn't be too sure of all three playing in the same team to be honest

[afeencalleddan]

Yeah, I think Scholes will be the one to have to do it from the bench. I would have said that 'twould be Carrick and Hargreaves/Senna as the central midfield with Rooney dropping off Saha and Giggs and Ronaldo offering width. When you consider Scholes, Solskjaer and Smith (as a striker) coming from the bench that's a formidable squad if they can stay fit.

[KolaKubes]

Despite his age Senna represents a far better option than Hargreaves if the fees being bandied about are close to the mark. £4m for Senna Vs £13m for Hargreaves. No contest. Despite Hargreaves' versatility Senna is a superior player in the holding midfield role.

What would be united fans' take on spending up to £31m on the Hargreaves/Carrick combination? It'd give me nightmares to be honest. Spectacularly over-priced, surely if Hargreaves is agitating for a move united could force down the fee?

Ah Jesus, this 18.6m figure being constantly bandied about is ridiculous. The flat fee is 14m, with bonuses it'll rise to 15/16m unless he powers Utd to the treble or something in which case it'll seem like a bargain anyway.

I think Chelsea's influence on the transfer market in two ways can't be ignored. Firstly, they've induced a spectacular inflation in fees in a market where every other club hasn't anything like the money they'd to spend even 5 years ago at football's peak in England. Secondly, a lot of the big clubs are waiting until the end of the summer (or being forced to) in case Chelsea try and gazump them. The logic being that the money is burning a hole in Roman's pocket all the time and, sure enough, he was quick in with two big signings this summer.

Anyway, on topic, Hargreaves looked very good last night for England. A sort of deluxe Phil Neville, if you will. I think Senna would add a little more to Utd but the risks of him not settling at the club are far greater. Ferguson might just ensure that Utd have a quality midfield partnership at the club for the next 6 years, which won't be a bad legacy, and the likes of Gibson and Jones as understudies.

Utd will probably play a sort of 4-2-3-1 formation this year. The front man in that doesn't need to be a striker per se, just a good focal point for the attack. Hughes in his day would have been perfect for the role really. I think Saha/Ole/Smith could feel the role very well, in fact Smith might revel in it, with the "3" providing the bulk of the goals between them. Rossi might be a bit small to play up top but he'd be well capable of flitting around in that "3", maybe alongside Rooney and Ronaldo. He's a quick, intelligent and tough little player aside from his goals and has always looked best underage coming from deeper.

With Carrick/Scholes/Jones/Hargreaves in the "2", the bones of an excellent defence and two quality keepers to call on, Utd look well equipped for the campaign, one which has the potential to be the most exciting in years (at least at the top).

[KolaKubes]

a serious lack of width there.

Actually, watching Richardson last night for Ingurland, Utd can also team him up with Ronaldo on the wings and Utd could go more traditional 4-4-2 if needs be. He's really developing nicely as a player is Richardson, still only 21.

[ho chi feen]

Before the world cup , there was a few guys on here ( can't remember who they are off hand) who were slating him , and slating Eriksson for picking him for England. There were a few claims that he must have some dirt on Eriksson , seeing as that he keeps picking him.

I was taking the piss a bit,. but just because I found that Observer letter 'What is the point of Owen Hargreaves, and the lack of responses, rather funny.

[Philby]

Myles Palmer (a good judge of a player) on anr.co.uk seems to rate the canuck pretty highly. Looks like he doesn't rate Dirk either.


Arsenal fans wake up to a punch in the face

By Myles Palmer


THE SUN says Owen Hargreaves left the England hotel (http://www.arsenalnewsrevie w.co.uk/news/314/42.html#) at 7.40 a.m. in a Man Utd club car (http://www.arsenalnewsrevie w.co.uk/news/314/42.html#) with the same Man United security man who took Carrick to Carrington, their training ground.
As I was watching Hargreaves play brilliantly against the feeble Greeks on Wednesday night, I was thinking that he is a cross between Nobby Stiles and Claude Makelele.
Like Stiles in the Sixties, he is quick and gets in tight and bites your legs.He has very few sloppy moments. His concentration is fantastic.
Like Makelele, he is a polite assassin. He kicks you and picks you up with a smile that says,"We're both men, its a man's game, and you know that's my job.So let's get on with it."
Hargreaves is 25, a neat passer , a great athlete, a terrific pro who has grown up outside the PremierSky bubble, acquiring a lot of good habits in the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich.
If this £17 million deal happens,Sir Alex has replaced Roy Keane by spending £35 million on Hargreaves and Carrick.
Say what you like about the Glazers, that is serious money.
I WAS HAVING a great week, a fabulous week, till I saw this news.
It's a punch in the face.
Kuyt to Liverpool, who cares? Kuyt is an honest centre forward who will score some goals.He won't make a huge difference over 38 Prem games.
Hargreaves will, so I'm gutted.
He should be playing for Arsenal.
A million Arsenal fans will now be asking : Are we playing for fourth place again ?
Still, they'll feel better after quick-passing Arsenal thump Aston Villa 5-0 tomorrow.
Ashley Cole will not play because Arsene doesn't want the game disrupted by a hate mob who would inevitable abuse Cole.
He has told the board to unload him immediately. Like you and me, AW realises this nasty saga has gone on far too long.


Aug 18, 2006





http://www.arsenalnewsrevie w.co.uk/news/314/42.html

[Langer Dan]

Earra id be more than happy if we bring in Hargreaves. Twould more than shore up our problem area for the last few seasons. A definite passing of the torch a la Scholesy, his last season perhaps?

[STEVIEG]

Earra id be more than happy if we bring in Hargreaves. Twould more than shore up our problem area for the last few seasons. A definite passing of the torch a la Scholesy, his last season perhaps?

It pretty much sums up my thoughts on the issue
He's not the kind of player who is gonna cause celebrations in the streets if he signs, but he should be effective
I'd say Carrick and Rossi will eventually go into the Scholes role, but i'd say he has a couple left alright

[Langer Dan]

It pretty much sums up my thoughts on the issue
He's not the kind of player who is gonna cause celebrations in the streets if he signs, but he should be effective
I'd say Carrick and Rossi will eventually go into the Scholes role, but i'd say he has a couple left alright

hopefully, 33 this year. A true United legend. Been one of the finest players in europe for the last decade.

[KolaKubes]

IF Carrick and Hargreaves are playing together at OT, McLaren will surely be tempted to tell Frank to fuck off and play the two at international level together?

Neither of these two guys were names that would set pulses racing but, as a combination, they would be some improvement on the O'Shea/Giggs combo that "powered" Utd to second spot last year.

I don't know, I can't see Utd struggling for goals this year really even without Ruud. We have options there within the squad. Saha, for one. Rossi (even if he's not a striker per se). Ole has looked encouragingly sharp in pre-season, must say a little gleam of nostalgia at some of his sneaky as fuck and sharp finishes in a few games. Not forgetting Smith who can offer something very different up there while weighing in with a few goals in the bargain.

Add goals from Rooney and Ronaldo and possibly likes of Scholes/Giggs and we'll be ok in tat respect while being much more solid down the spine of the team.

[Sound]

Relevant question from another forum-

Comments please on the phenomenon of purchasing players after the world cup and not in advance. How is it that players who perform decently in the world cup get purchased only after the world cup and not in advance, in anticipation. I mean, don't the scouts have a role to do and point out these players in advance of the world cup and get them on the cheap? Ok, it's no mean feat to play well in a couple of games at world cup level, but isn't there the risk of 'flash in the pan' and the extra cost?

Classic examples. Pre World Cup, Hargreaves was ridiculed and booed by English fans as overrated. Plays a decent game each at the WC and he's Man U material and worth 13M.

[Up For The Ba]

Relevant question from another forum-

Comments please on the phenomenon of purchasing players after the world cup and not in advance. How is it that players who perform decently in the world cup get purchased only after the world cup and not in advance, in anticipation. I mean, don't the scouts have a role to do and point out these players in advance of the world cup and get them on the cheap? Ok, it's no mean feat to play well in a couple of games at world cup level, but isn't there the risk of 'flash in the pan' and the extra cost?

Classic examples. Pre World Cup, Hargreaves was ridiculed and booed by English fans as overrated. Plays a decent game each at the WC and he's Man U material and worth 13M.

It is a valid point. However on Hargreaves he seemed to be always used on the right hand side before for England, not his best position. His chances in the centre were always limited, but that certainly wouldnt be the case with United.

[Sound]

It is a valid point. However on Hargreaves he seemed to be always used on the right hand side before for England, not his best position. His chances in the centre were always limited, but that certainly wouldnt be the case with United.

Yes but he's been playing there for Bayern for eons and wasn't deemed worthy. Why now?

[Coin]

IF Carrick and Hargreaves are playing together at OT, McLaren will surely be tempted to tell Frank to fuck off and play the two at international level together?
Surely Hargreaves/Gerrard would be a better balance than Carrick/Hargreaves. As has been discussed at length here, Carrick tends to sit a little deeper, which has some of the Utd lads worried they won't have anyone making runs into the box from central midfield (assuming a 2 man centre not including Paul Scholes).

[afeencalleddan]

Relevant question from another forum-

Comments please on the phenomenon of purchasing players after the world cup and not in advance. How is it that players who perform decently in the world cup get purchased only after the world cup and not in advance, in anticipation. I mean, don't the scouts have a role to do and point out these players in advance of the world cup and get them on the cheap? Ok, it's no mean feat to play well in a couple of games at world cup level, but isn't there the risk of 'flash in the pan' and the extra cost?

Classic examples. Pre World Cup, Hargreaves was ridiculed and booed by English fans as overrated. Plays a decent game each at the WC and he's Man U material and worth 13M.I suppose potential injury would play a part. I don't think any club would want to splash out on a player only for him to break his leg or do his cruciates during the WC.

Also, I'm not sure that Hargreaves's performances in the World cup are generally the reason for a high pricetag. I would say it's a factor but a minor factor.

[dancefreak2003]

Hargreaves's has always been considered a top quality player by Bayern Munich.

[afeencalleddan]

Hargreaves's has always been considered a top quality player by Bayern Munich.Exactly, I'd say they don't really want him to leave. Also they're well aware that United really want another midfielder ASAP hence, the high asking price.

[Up For The Ba]

Yes but he's been playing there for Bayern for eons and wasn't deemed worthy. Why now?

The English fans werent long shutting up when he put in a good performance. He`s not flamboyant by any means but he`s got a great engine, something United have lacked for quite some time. Is he overpriced at £17M - of course he is. But i`d still prefer to see United paying it, they really need a player of his mould, more so than Carrick really.

On the subject of Paul Scholes, by the looks of the way he`s played in pre-season its gonna be hard to leave him out of the equation.

[Coin]

On the subject of Paul Scholes, by the looks of the way he`s played in pre-season its gonna be hard to leave him out of the equation.
Scholes/Hargreaves is definitely more of a Man U type combination than Carrick/Hargreaves.

It remains to be seen if Scholes has the legs for a season in the central role in a 4-4-2 or can you only play him as the front of a triangle or something like that.

[Up For The Ba]

Scholes/Hargreaves is definitely more of a Man U type combination than Carrick/Hargreaves.

It remains to be seen if Scholes has the legs for a season in the central role in a 4-4-2 or can you only play him as the front of a triangle or something like that.

Agreed. If United do sign Hargreaves, it will be very interesting to see what happens when everybody is available.

[afeencalleddan]

Agreed. If United do sign Hargreaves, it will be very interesting to see what happens when everybody is available.OK, I'll have a bash

-----------Van der Saar
Neville----Rio----Brown----Heinze
------Carrick----Hargreaves
Ronaldo-----Rooney-------Giggs
--------------Saha

[STEVIEG]

, it will be very interesting to see what happens when everybody is available.


Not likely to happen anytime soon id say!

[ho chi feen]

OK, I'll have a bash

-----------Van der Saar
Neville----Rio----Brown----Heinze
------Carrick----Hargreaves
Ronaldo-----Rooney-------Giggs
--------------Saha

That's the same formation as the run-in in 2003. We haven't had the personnel to play it since, but it's fluid in attack, solikd in the centre and strong at the back. Could be interesting!

Still fucked if Saha gets injured though.

[KolaKubes]

That's the same formation as the run-in in 2003. We haven't had the personnel to play it since, but it's fluid in attack, solikd in the centre and strong at the back. Could be interesting!

Still fucked if Saha gets injured though.

Naw, I think Smith can do that role too. At a pinch we might even see Ronaldo in the role on occasion.

[Philby]

OK, I'll have a bash

-----------Van der Saar
Neville----Rio----Brown----Heinze
------Carrick----Hargreaves
Ronaldo-----Rooney-------Giggs
--------------Saha

Looks a useful line-up with Park and Richardson available to come on out wide to offer more energy than giggs has to offer these days.

IMHO this formation will require rooney to drop quite deep to make the play (which he's well capable of) as neither carrick or canuck will be bombing on to any great extent. Against a top class midfield Rooney will find it tough to pick the ball up from deep and be effective - against more mundane midfields he may well tear them apart.

[KolaKubes]

Looks a useful line-up with Park and Richardson available to come on out wide to offer more energy than giggs has to offer these days.

IMHO this formation will require rooney to drop quite deep to make the play (which he's well capable of) as neither carrick or canuck will be bombing on to any great extent. Against a top class midfield Rooney will find it tough to pick the ball up from deep and be effective - against more mundane midfields he may well tear them apart.

But Rooney's well able to handle himself (if left alone by fuckwit refs), I love the way he tracks back 50-60 yards at times too. Through him into the midfield mix when he drops deep and it's a formidable looking trio.

Richardson too is filling out and might force himself into that team yet.

I also think Vidic will come to the fore through this season, I think he could be an awesome centre-half. Question marks over whether Heinze will hold down that left back slot for me too. Evra has pushed on through pre-season and will probably start with Heinze's injury.

[singular]

i only saw Ronaldo play in that forward role in the world cup,and wasnt too convinced,but as i say,i didnt see much of it so could be wrong.Smith could do alright in that role too i think

[ho chi feen]

i only saw Ronaldo play in that forward role in the world cup,and wasnt too convinced,but as i say,i didnt see much of it so could be wrong.Smith could do alright in that role too i think

That's actually his favoured position. Only Fergie seems to regard him as an out-=and-out winger. In Portugal, he's always been regarded as a split striker or one of the three behind a lone striker.

[singular]

ya i know,i remember hearing that,maybe it was a lack of service during the world cup or something when he played there but it just didnt seem to come off.but he has the pace to be deadly in that position if they can beat the offside trap,

[Langer Dan]

Owen Hargreaves is continuing to ask Bayern Munich for permission to speak to Manchester United despite being told he will not be sold, Bayern general manager Uli Hoeness has revealed.

Hoeness has insisted on a number of occasions that United's approaches for the England international will be rebuffed, and has now warned Hargreaves he must end his campaign to leave and focus on his responsibilities to the German champions.

"He would be well-advised to keep quiet, otherwise I really will get mad and that will not be pleasant for him," Hoeness told reporters.

"I cannot understand why, after two discussions, he keeps coming back to me.

"There is no chance whatsoever that we will let him go and he has got to learn to accept the decisions taken by those above him.

bollocks

[Up For The Ba]

Question marks over whether Heinze will hold down that left back slot for me too. Evra has pushed on through pre-season and will probably start with Heinze's injury.

Ya, Heinze has been truly terrible for us so far. Evra may be a good footballer but he`s not in the same bracket as Heinze as far as defending is concerned. He`s an extremely useful option to have, but I wouldnt have him in the starting 11.

[KolaKubes]

Ya, Heinze has been truly terrible for us so far. Evra may be a good footballer but he`s not in the same bracket as Heinze as far as defending is concerned. He`s an extremely useful option to have, but I wouldnt have him in the starting 11.



I'm not questioning Heinze's quality, I'm more questioning his quality as a full back. He's a bit immobile for the position and pretty shite going forward. The guy's a centre half for me.

[singular]

Evra was fairly impressive on Sunday, made some very good tackles.

thats shite about Hargreaves, that guy Hoeness sounds like some old German dictator!

[Forsberg]

thats shite about Hargreaves, that guy Hoeness sounds like some old German dictator!
Why?

Bayern have Hargreaves on a long term contract. Why should they just buckle and sell him. He's a player they obviously rate. I think it'd be a good thing for football if they stood firm and held on to him. There's too much player powerin the game today. It's about time contracts actually meant something.

[Che Mourinho]

Why?

Bayern have Hargreaves on a long term contract. Why should they just buckle and sell him. He's a player they obviously rate. I think it'd be a good thing for football if they stood firm and held on to him. There's too much player powerin the game today. It's about time contracts actually meant something.

What's the big fuck about player power? Obviously you should look out for yourself. It's great being loyal and I'm all for that, but if a player wants to leave, asks (nicely :-)), and doesn't act the prick, then he should be allowed to leave. In any other profession, if you want to quit, you hand in 2 weeks notice and are free to go where you want. I know contracts and transfer fees etc. make football (and sport) a bit different, but fuck this club power shit. If a player wants to leave and there has been no illegal action (sounds like Fergie may have though), then why should the club act the bollox. It's not like United aren't going to pay ridiculous money or anything. Can't a player change his mind through a long term contract? People change their minds about college courses, careers, long term friendships all the time and move on, is a football long term contract signed with tears and blood?

The player v club thing has many different stories. One one side, Chimbonda acted like an asshole on the last day of last season and supposedly didn't act very professionally, but Wigan agreed to sell, if a club came in at their valuation. Hargreaves seems to be going about it in the right way. United are, supposedly, going to pay something like £18m for Hargreaves. From a financial point of view (and football's a business), that's a fantastic offer.

So.....fuck Bayern, they're the fuckers!

[baby face]

if a player wants to leave hes going to leave, its a simple as that

[STEVIEG]

If Hoeness and Bayern felt so strrong about this they wouldn't have given permission to United to talk to Hargreaves and vice versa

He has obviously talked to United and "tapping-up" hasn't been mentioned so either Bayern are just trying to drive up his price or they are trying to save face with their fans

I could still see United messing up the deal though, but I hope they get one more player before the end of next week

[markinmanc]

Hahahahahahahahaha.

*cough*

Hahahahahahahahahaha hahaahahahahahahahha hahahahahahahahaha.

http://football.guardian.co .uk/News_Story/0,,1855431,00.html

Malcolm Glazer's family are expected to review security arrangements after supporters attempted to confront them at a city-centre hotel after Sunday's game against Fulham. Riot police were called to disperse what is understood to have been a pre-planned, yet unsuccessful, attempt to attack Manchester United's owners by a 30-strong group five hours after the match at Old Trafford.
The incident occurred at the Victoria and Albert hotel close to Granada's studios after news had spread that Glazer's sons, Bryan and Avi, might have had rooms booked there. The police confirmed yesterday that hotel staff had rung 999 because of a threat of violence and that a fire alarm had been set off.

[STEVIEG]

Heard about that alright:)

[Up For The Ba]

I'm not questioning Heinze's quality, I'm more questioning his quality as a full back. He's a bit immobile for the position and pretty shite going forward. The guy's a centre half for me.

I dont doubt that he`d be a better centre half than a full back, and I also dont doubt that he would be less mobile than Evra in an attacking sense. But sometimes you need a full back who will not wander too often, if you have two full backs pushing on all the time you`re only looking for trouble if you ask me. A full backs first job is obviously to defend, and a defence of
Neville, Brown/Vidic, Ferdinand and Heinze would be stronger for me than Neville, Ferdinand, Heinze, Evra.

[singular]

Forsberg, the reason i said that Hoeness sounds like a dictator was cos of this quote:
"He would be well-advised to keep quiet, otherwise I really will get mad and that will not be pleasant for him," Hoeness told reporters.

and ya,if a player really doesnt want to play for a club,then the manager should at least weigh up the options,and think of what he can do with the cash from the player. Hargreaves has 4 years left on his contract,id very surprised if he stayed for that length of time.

[citdjsociety]

I dont doubt that he`d be a better centre half than a full back, and I also dont doubt that he would be less mobile than Evra in an attacking sense. But sometimes you need a full back who will not wander too often, if you have two full backs pushing on all the time you`re only looking for trouble if you ask me. A full backs first job is obviously to defend, and a defence of
Neville, Brown/Vidic, Ferdinand and Heinze would be stronger for me than Neville, Ferdinand, Heinze, Evra.


i would agree

[Actin The Sham]

From The Daily Mirror:

Manchester United were placed on red alert last night after long-term transfer target Carlos Tevez announced he planned to quit Brazil for a move to Europe.

Argentine World Cup hitman Tevez is demanding a move after falling out with new Corinthians coach and former Brazil goalkeeper Emerson Leao.

And United fan Tevez, dubbed "The Apache" and "The Bull" due to his aggressive playing style, would fit the bill.

Tevez, stripped of the Corinthians captaincy by Leao as he does not speak Portuguese, demanded a transfer after the weekend win over Botafogo.

The 22-year-old striker announced: "This may have been my last game in the Corinthians shirt.

"I would like to stay but I have to think about what is better for me and my family."

When Corinthians signed Tevez in 2004, he attended a press conference wearing a United shirt and has never hidden interest in playing for the Red Devils.



****


Heh heh heh...

[Che Mourinho]

Bayern threaten United

Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has threatened to report Manchester United to Fifa over their attempts to sign Owen Hargreaves.

The German champions have made it clear that they have no intention of letting the England international move to Old Trafford, but the Premiership giants are still trying to broker a deal.

Rummenigge now says his club will look to have The Red Devils sanctioned should their efforts to lure Hargreaves continue.

"We have told Manchester United that they should stop trying to tempt Hargreaves. If they don't we will have to turn to Fifa," Rummenigge told the tz newspaper.

"A club may only contact a player if that player's own club gives its permission.

"We are not like Hamburg, who decided to sell Khalid Boulahrouz the moment they had an offer for him.

"We are FC Bayern and we don't give in to anybody. Here it is the employer who decides what happens and not the employee," the former German international striker added.

Hargreaves has intimated his desire to quit The Allianz Arena for United, but it seems Sir Alex Ferguson faces an uphill battle to land the 25-year-old.

******************** ******************** ****************

Go fuck yourselves Bayern, you're really starting to piss me off now. United badly need another midfielder and the player doesn't want to play for you smelly Germans anymore. He's been there for 9 years, I think they should be giving him the respect he's earned.

We all know that in Germany the employee holds all the power, just look at how shitty the German economy has been, partly because the unions are so resistant to giving uo their cushy 36 hour weeks.

Not only do I hope Hargreaves signs for United, but gives Rummenigge and Hoeness the two fingers on his way out. He hasn't done anything wrong, but those fuckers are trying to paint him as the villain!

[homer jay]

Go fuck yourselves Bayern, you're really starting to piss me off now. United badly need another midfielder and the player doesn't want to play for you smelly Germans anymore. He's been there for 9 years, I think they should be giving him the respect he's earned.

We all know that in Germany the employee holds all the power, just look at how shitty the German economy has been, partly because the unions are so resistant to giving uo their cushy 36 hour weeks.

Not only do I hope Hargreaves signs for United, but gives Rummenigge and Hoeness the two fingers on his way out. He hasn't done anything wrong, but those fuckers are trying to paint him as the villain!

1.25/10 for the rant. if thats the best reason you can come up with for trying to get bayern to part with hargreaves, you'll never see him at utd.

United badly need another midfielder and the player doesn't want to play for you smelly Germans anymore ffs :D

[Forsberg]

Bayern threaten United

Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge has threatened to report Manchester United to Fifa over their attempts to sign Owen Hargreaves.

The German champions have made it clear that they have no intention of letting the England international move to Old Trafford, but the Premiership giants are still trying to broker a deal.

Rummenigge now says his club will look to have The Red Devils sanctioned should their efforts to lure Hargreaves continue.

"We have told Manchester United that they should stop trying to tempt Hargreaves. If they don't we will have to turn to Fifa," Rummenigge told the tz newspaper.

"A club may only contact a player if that player's own club gives its permission.

"We are not like Hamburg, who decided to sell Khalid Boulahrouz the moment they had an offer for him.

"We are FC Bayern and we don't give in to anybody. Here it is the employer who decides what happens and not the employee," the former German international striker added.

Hargreaves has intimated his desire to quit The Allianz Arena for United, but it seems Sir Alex Ferguson faces an uphill battle to land the 25-year-old.

******************** ******************** ****************

Go fuck yourselves Bayern, you're really starting to piss me off now. United badly need another midfielder and the player doesn't want to play for you smelly Germans anymore. He's been there for 9 years, I think they should be giving him the respect he's earned.

We all know that in Germany the employee holds all the power, just look at how shitty the German economy has been, partly because the unions are so resistant to giving uo their cushy 36 hour weeks.

Not only do I hope Hargreaves signs for United, but gives Rummenigge and Hoeness the two fingers on his way out. He hasn't done anything wrong, but those fuckers are trying to paint him as the villain!

What are you talking about. He only signed a four year contract extension last year. And now he wants to leave cos he had a couple of half decent games and everyone thinks he's Englands new saviour. If Hargreaves really desires a move to England so much then why did he sign this extension. It's not like he's homesick or something. If anyone is showing a lack of respect it's Hargreaves

. Personally I think Bayern should sell him cos he's being seriously over valued butIf Bayern want to keep them then thats their perogative. .

[Actin The Sham]

1.25/10 for the rant. if thats the best reason you can come up with for trying to get bayern to part with hargreaves, you'll never see him at utd.

ffs :D


Maybe they should buy somebody like Aurelio for those big matches against the Mighty Sheffield United, or Maccabi Haifa......



Know your limits.



Heh heh heh......

[Che Mourinho]

1.25/10 for the rant. if thats the best reason you can come up with for trying to get bayern to part with hargreaves, you'll never see him at utd.

ffs :D

Thanks for the grading, didn't realise such a system existed and that you were the lord of it.

Why don't you read my entry from the page before, when I use logic for Bayern acting the bollox over Hargreaves.

[Actin The Sham]

Thanks for the grading, didn't realise such a system existed and that you were the lord of it.




Don't worry, he's an apprentice wannabee member of the SFI. (Sports Forum Intellegentsia.)

[Che Mourinho]

What are you talking about. He only signed a four year contract extension last year. And now he wants to leave cos he had a couple of half decent games and everyone thinks he's Englands new saviour. If Hargreaves really desires a move to England so much then why did he sign this extension. It's not like he's homesick or something. If anyone is showing a lack of respect it's Hargreaves



Valid point and I asked this question to myself too. The thing is, from Hargreaves point of view, when he signed the 4 year contract, none of the big 4 in England came in for him and he wasn't sure if they ever would. A perfectly understandable situation. Then 6 months later, United want him, and he says, hold on I want to realise my dream and play for a top Premiership club. He's never hid his desire to play in the Premiership one day. Just 'cause you sign a 4 year contract, doesn't mean you have to stay there for 4 years. Things change.

When people get married, they're 100% sure that this is the person they'll spend their whole life with, but I heard of a fella in Cork recently who asked for a divorce after coming back from the honeymoon! People change their minds, it's life!!

[Sound]

Maybe they should buy somebody like Aurelio for those big matches against the Mighty Sheffield United, or Maccabi Haifa......



Know your limits.



Heh heh heh......

Aurelio was free.

I know your limits alright.

[homer jay]

Thanks for the grading, didn't realise such a system existed and that you were the lord of it.

no problem, my pleasure. but i'm not lord of it, its a free system...for the people. ;)

Know your limits.

ya had to drag this into a pool v utd. no dice. stick to the F1

Don't worry, he's an apprentice wannabee member of the SFI. (Sports Forum Intellegentsia.)

wrong. i have previously stated my position on the SFI.

Che Mourinho, you say that just because he signs a contract for 4 years, it doesn't mean he has to stay there for 4 years. if the roles were reversed, bayern would have to pay out the rest of his contract. as forsberg said, too much player power. all this 'come and get me' crap is making a mockery of the transfer system with teams like lyon (re:essien) and arsenal (re:cole) being almost held to ransom by want away players.