Alonso & Gerrard - as good as it gets?

[Philby]

Alonso & Gerrard will become the most dynamic, powerful and effective central partnership since Vieira & Petit - if we can replicate their success I'll be a happy man. I'd think they match up pretty nicely to the other top teams' pairings:

Arsenal - Vieira & Edu

Chelski - Lampard & Makalele/Smertin

Manyoo - Keane & Miller/DJ DJ/Fletcher

Newcastle - Jenas & Butt


Alonso - "Not only is Benitez a great coach, he is a master of psychology.

"He can make the players become friends and he can help them perform to a higher level. This is how he enabled Valencia to triumph in La Liga.

"I believe under Benitez our work will be excellent. I am convinced that this season the Reds can be considered to win the championship."

Alonso revealed that Real Madrid had also been interested in him but added - "When it came down to a choice between Madrid and Liverpool I chose Liverpool. They are the club that showed the biggest interest in me."

[Philby]

Why No Alonso Bid?Monday, August 16, 2004 ("] [/url]

by The Editor on [url="http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/2004/08/why-no-alonso-bid.html) (javascript:HaloScan ('109266804175993802 ');) (javascript:HaloScan ('109266804175993802 ');)http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/images/alonsobid.jpgLast summer Sir Alex was quoted as saying that Xabi Alonso, the Real Sociedad player and Spanish international, was the best up-and-coming defensive midfielder in Europe and "one we would certainly like to take". United were supposedly quoted a price of £25m for the player - obviously way over the top for someone as yet unproven at the very highest level. However, times change and this year with Sociedad in financial trouble they appear to have accepted at bid of just £10m from Liverpool.

The real question is this: with Keane aging, Butt sold on and Djemba-Djemba as yet unproven, why is there no bid from United? After all, if Alonso is in the Keane/Vieira/Gerrard class (and I personally think he is) and the latter two of that triumvirate totally unavailable, it would make sense to bring the player in.


http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/2004/08/why-no-alonso-bid.html

[nicewanfeen]

This is a fantastic signing, current spanish international, courted by Real. He's 6'4", good long and short passer, fairly physical with a great engine. What more could ya want and along side Gerrard, I dont think there's a midfield combo in europe will eventually touch it.

[Fat Tom]

yeah a class signing but Keane and Scholes!!!!!!

[General Michael Collins]

A top class player who should be an ideal partner for Stevie G in the middle of the park.The rafalution continues at pace.Roll on the first home game against City on Saturday.Viva Benetiz.

[Teknique]

yeah a class signing but Keane and Scholes!!!!!!



ya, what about em....

[Fat Tom]

ya, what about em....

Alonso & Gerrard will become the most dynamic, powerful and effective central partnership since Vieira & Petit - if we can replicate their success I'll be a happy man. =

That is exactly what Keane and Scholes are, not Vieira and Petit (one season)
lets talk about guys who have been doing it for near on ten years!

Good hope for Alonso and Gerrard - probably need better players around them but they've a lot to do to emulate Keane and Scholes!

[Coin]

That is exactly what Keane and Scholes are, not Vieira and Petit (one season) lets talk about guys who have been doing it for near on ten years!
10 years is a long time to be playing at that level, neither were at their best last year. Yes, injuries played a part, but as they age it takes longer to get back match sharpness after a couple of games missed. I think they'll need a lot of help from the rest of the Utd midfield.

[Fat Tom]

10 years is a long time to be playing at that level, neither were at their best last year. Yes, injuries played a part, but as they age it takes longer to get back match sharpness after a couple of games missed. I think they'll need a lot of help from the rest of the Utd midfield.

True but if the rest is Ronaldo and Giggs on the starting team and back up of Fletcher it can't be all bad and hopefully the other young boys will improve - the jury is still out on DJ DJ, Kleberson and Miller!

[Philby]

I think we all know that Roy at his marauding best is effectively gone. The Keane we are left with is a more calm, experienced player but he will really struggle against the pace, power & ability (both of whom are more skilfull players than roy) of Gerrard & Alonso. There isn't a partnership in the world that I'd take ahead of them. Both players have terrific all-round games and can swap roles at the drop of a hat (something which keane & scholes cannot due due to teh fact that keane's legs are gone & scholes has never been able to tackle)

[Fat Tom]

I think we all know that Roy at his marauding best is effectively gone. The Keane we are left with is a more calm, experienced player but he will really struggle against the pace, power & ability (both of whom are more skilfull players than roy) of Gerrard & Alonso. There isn't a partnership in the world that I'd take ahead of them. Both players have terrific all-round games and can swap roles at the drop of a hat (something which keane & scholes cannot due due to teh fact that keane's legs are gone & scholes has never been able to tackle)

Yeah but they have a lot to do to ever be comapared next or near those men and I'd take Gattuso and Pirlo, Emerson and Nedved too, over Gerrard and Alonso!
Lets see Albelda and Baraja as a partnership are unreal!

A few weeks ago ye were singing about how great Hamann was!
Alonos is a great signing but ye have a lot of other areas to improve yet!

Plus I saw Keane and Scholes against Milan who have some of the best central midfielders in the world and both were head and shoulders above anything Milan had to offer - while Keanes best days may be behind him he still has a tremendous amount to offer that Man U team and is as tough an opponent as any left in the league!

[Blarney1]

Yeah but they have a lot to do to ever be comapared next or near those men and I'd take Gattuso and Pirlo, Emerson and Nedved too, over Gerrard and Alonso!
Lets see Albelda and Baraja as a partnership are unreal!

A few weeks ago ye were singing about how great Hamann was!
Alonos is a great signing but ye have a lot of other areas to improve yet!

Plus I saw Keane and Scholes against Milan who have some of the best central midfielders in the world and both were head and shoulders above anything Milan had to offer - while Keanes best days may be behind him he still has a tremendous amount to offer that Man U team and is as tough an opponent as any left in the league!

Gattuso and Pirlo, Emerson and Nedved, Albelda and Baraja!
You are having a laugh aren't you? Gerrard and Alonso are way better than any of these partnerships.
Yes Hamann is a good player and there are very few available players that would improve this area for Liverpool. Alonso is certainly one.
United and Milan in the friendly in New York??

[Fat Tom]

Gattuso and Pirlo, Emerson and Nedved, Albelda and Baraja!
You are having a laugh aren't you? Gerrard and Alonso are way better than any of these partnerships.
Yes Hamann is a good player and there are very few available players that would improve this area for Liverpool. Alonso is certainly one.
United and Milan in the friendly in New York??

see the thing is the Liverpool supporters in this forum are very quick to jump to quick conclusions - it is an unproven partnership and while it looks quite good the ones I've mentioned are all succesful!

Emerson was chased after by most major clubs in Europe this season, and we all know how good Nedved is!

Gattuso and pirlo have Champions League and Serie A medals to their names!

Baraja and Albelda while not as good as individuals are an unbelievable partnership in Spain for the last number of years!

All I'm saying is that there is some very out there statements being made here - as in the best midfield partnership in Europe, time will tell and it has the makings of a good partnership but they have a lot to prove yet to be considered the best in Europe!

[Blarney1]

see the thing is the Liverpool supporters in this forum are very quick to jump to quick conclusions - it is an unproven partnership and while it looks quite good the ones I've mentioned are all succesful!

Emerson was chased after by most major clubs in Europe this season, and we all know how good Nedved is!

Gattuso and pirlo have Champions League and Serie A medals to their names!

Baraja and Albelda while not as good as individuals are an unbelievable partnership in Spain for the last number of years!

All I'm saying is that there is some very out there statements being made here - as in the best midfield partnership in Europe, time will tell and it has the makings of a good partnership but they have a lot to prove yet to be considered the best in Europe!
Its true that they have a lot to prove and us liverpool fans are very optimistic that they will prove it.
If Man U signed that pair Tom you know that you would be on here raving, any club would like to have these two players.

[Fat Tom]

Its true that they have a lot to prove and us liverpool fans are very optimistic that they will prove it.
If Man U signed that pair Tom you know that you would be on here raving, any club would like to have these two players.

Obviously, I thougt Alonso as he was with an Average club who wouldn't sell to a Spansih club would have been an ideal replacement for Keane, the boy is class.

All I'll say is that it is a bit premature to call them the best partnership in Europe.

Still Owen's loss will be felt but Cisse looks the part, however if ye were to suffer injuries ye'd be fucked!

Anyway if Kewell shows interest again and attains the form he is cpaable of ye have a savage midfield once ye sign a right sided player - Nunez isn't up to scratch for a starting place and yer defence needs some work but ye are building!

Alonso was a steal though!!!

[Blarney1]

Nunez is after getting injured already

[Fat Tom]

Nunez is after getting injured already

Yeah but I don;t feel he os the answer to yer right sided problems anyway

[ho chi feen]

Anyway if Kewell shows interest.....

Thats a bit like speculating on how Celtic might do in the premiership, if only they were in it.

Bar the odd flash of brilliance, he's been on the downward spiral for a few years now. Seems bad attitude is in vogue with Aussies who pass through Bellend Road...

[Philby]

Bad attitude? When has he shown this?

I've actually been very surprised @ Kewell's work-rate since he joined liverpool. He's far from the lazy showboater I half expected & really works hard to protect his full-back (although his tackling skills are most definately those of a forward).

He has been carrying an ankle injury for a few months now which has contributed to his dip in form but I'm quite happy with him on our left wing & think that Rafa's focus on using wide players more than GH did will only benefit him.

[Coin]

All I'll say is that it is a bit premature to call them the best partnership in Europe.
True. Looks good on paper, no one knows how it'll pan out. They could be awful together.
Still Owen's loss will be felt but Cisse looks the part, however if ye were to suffer injuries ye'd be fucked!

Liverpool have zero depth. Any injuries and its back to the useless shower that played last year. I can't believe they want to move Finnan.

[Superdave]

we have no depth?

What about utd? A few injuries and ye look v average. that arguement can be applied to every team bar Chelsea at the moment.

And while I'm at it, was anyone at any of the pools matches in pre season? I was at the celtic game and watched the other two on TV and Biscan was the best player on the field on both occasions. Scary but true.

[ho chi feen]

we have no depth?

What about utd? A few injuries and ye look v average. that arguement can be applied to every team bar Chelsea at the moment.

And while I'm at it, was anyone at any of the pools matches in pre season? I was at the celtic game and watched the other two on TV and Biscan was the best player on the field on both occasions. Scary but true.

Yeah but you should should see some of the shit smicer/verón/kanu used to do in training!

[wunhunglo]

Yeah but you should should see some of the shit smicer/verón/kanu used to do in training!

You mean shooting up heroin and that sort of carry on.

[Philby]

stolen from a pool site - one fan attempts to make the case that Alonso is the most impressive import to the english league to date. While he is still young & has a lot to prove I think his notion may not be as fanciful as it seems (in the light of him turning down the "best club in the world" and leaving the best league in the world to come to england)

the most impressive Premiership import to date?

As bold as the above question may appear to be, let me explain.......

Since the Premiership came to be in 1992, possibly the most notable difference from the old football league that has come to pass has been the presence of the "foreign import". Some have been good, others bad, but at the top end of the market it can't be denied that English football has benefited from some of the most talented players in the world. Henry, Vieira, Cantona, Schmeichel, Bergkamp and Van Nistelrooy to name just a few, all "Galacticos" in their own right.

So why would the transfer of Xabi Alonso eclipse the aforementioned superstars?

Well, out of all the above mentioned, there are 3 Frenchmen, 2 Dutchmen and a Dane. The French have typically always travelled. You just have to look at how many players in their national side play abroad for testimony to this. The same has always applied to the Dutch (Cruyff, Van Basten, Rijkaard etc) and the Danish (Simonsen, Elkjaer, the Laudrups).

Ahh, but what about imports like Zola, Ravanelli, Vialli, Gullit and Desailly, after all they've have had glittering and very well decorated careers?

Well what about them? Impressive players indeed, but all came over towards the autumn of thier career for one final big paycheck in what was allegedly referred to as the FA Carling Premier Retirement Home by certain Italian agent.

Even Cantona only ended up on these shores because no one in France would touch him with a barge pole, a player passed from club to club to disciplinary hearing.

It has also been something of a safety net to a few players who have "flopped" in Serie A. Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira all having suffered from either having a battered or non- existant reputation before flourising under the genius that is Arsene Wenger in his Highbury Rehabilitation Centre.

If you look at other big money imports into England you will see names like Juan Seba Veron (Argentine, already established in his national side, and a big hit in Italy), Ruud Van Nistelrooy (Dutch, move to England benefitted his career, none of the big Spanish or Italian clubs in for him), Didier Drogba (Ivory Coast, a great season for Marseille but has one season wonder written all over him) and whoever else is flavour of the week at Stamford Bridge.

But I've yet to recall a transfer of a native player from a "big league" to England who is only in the early stages of his career and is so highly rated in their own country. Not one Italian or Spaniard has made that imaginative and courageous leap. The two countries' large clubs have always jealously held onto their best young players.

Imagine for a moment Wayne Rooney turning down a move a Manchester United, and instead signing for Barcelona. That's the equivalent of the Alonso move.

You could throw the case of Jose Antonio Reyes into the mix, Arsenal's sparkling young replacement for Bergkamp. Then again, Real Madrid weren't the competition for his signature, Arsenal had been nurturing his transfer since he was 17, and Arsenal's transfer fee includes the majority based on future success/appearences. Alonso is also further advanced on the national stage.

It says an awful lot about Alonso that he is brave enough to make this move at this stage of his career, on the verge of taking over as first choice in the heart of the Spanish midfield, because as has been seen with Reyes, it can jeopordise your international prospects moving abroad.

It also (again) reflects well on Senor Benitez. Make no mistake, this is a hell of a catch and illustrates the regard in which El Boss is held in his native country.

Now for an even bolder statement, this time from Alonso himself.

"When it came down to a choice between Madrid and Liverpool I chose Liverpool."

How impressive are those words?

[Coin]

Philby, not saying whether you're right or wrong about Alonso, but you really are the ultimate optimist.

[Philby]

1. I didn't write it but there is a nugget of truth in it I believe.

Is Alonso the best player to join the premiership? No.

Is he the most high profile? No.

Is he the first highly-rated international, reaching his peak, with top clubs courting him to leave a top league (Italy/Spain) for the premiership? Yes he is. I think this is a significant milestone for the premiership as much as it is for liverpool - no longer is the prem. a gravy train for ageing stars - for the first time a top quality, young spanish player has snubbed his own league for an english club.

That can only be good for the league.


2. As I said above, I didn't write it mate but you're probably right, I am quite optimistic..what's the point in being one of those many negative liverpool fans who are always bitching?

Under Houllier they were happy to take the trophies, increased profile & improved players but turned on him like dogs when it started to go sour citing quality of play as the main reason

Under Evans they lamented our lack of cutting edge & directness @ a time when we were playing the most attractive football in the league

Under Souness they were probably right to b1tch, that man set us back years

Under Kenny....er....none of these plastic Liverpool supporters know a thing about him

In short I'd rather err on the side of optimism because I can't see how you can enjoy football if you're in a constant negative frame of mind.

[shammy feen]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating....just ask Micky Quinn or Jan Molby.

Philby, you must work for Boots chemists, because you have a permanent supply of Prozac on hand at all times when it comes to Liverpool.Last season it was Letallec and Pongolle, the new saviours of Liverpool... What became of LeTallec? hmm....

If Liverpool improve on finishing 19 points behind Chelsea last season, I would be highly surprised.

Shammy

[Fairly Looney]

Philby, I share your optimism.
As a Liverpool fan one has to be optimistic or else we could not survive the persistent flattering to deceive of the past decade.
I think Benitez will make a remarkable improvement this year and while we won't win the league I think we can contend and have an impact on who wins. I'd also expect to finish a lot closer to the top teams, maybe 4th again, but at least not so far behind in the points tally.

and I thought Letallec looked good when he played last year.

[Coin]

2. As I said above, I didn't write it mate but you're probably right, I am quite optimistic..what's the point in being one of those many negative liverpool fans who are always bitching?I wasn't having a cut off you or anything, and I didn't particularly disagree with the comments of whoever wrote what you pasted in. And when I started reading this forum a few months ago it was excellent to see a Liverpool supporter who didn't hate the players and manager.

In short I'd rather err on the side of optimism because I can't see how you can enjoy football if you're in a constant negative frame of mind.Absolutely agree.

[Philby]

Xabi has had as impressive a start in a pool shirt as I can remember (I'm trying not to compare his start with that of Stanley Collymore as we all know how that ended).

We know he has the skills, composure & vision to make it in this country but the maturity he shows for someone of only 22 yrs of age is frankly staggering. While any team in the world would miss a player of Gerrard's ability I have a lot of confidence that Alonso will do as good a job as anyone in filling Gerrard's boots.

"No matter what the ticket price and no matter where in the world he was playing I would gladly pay to watch him" - Nigel Worthington (after saturday's game) on Alonso

[comred]

He was absolutley outstanding on Saturday, hes like a slimline Jan Molby. Every ball he played found a Liverpool player, he can dictate the pace of the game and he can tackle as good as Gerrard. Saying that though, it was a piece of piss against Norwich, they never looked like scoring, not even when EEEEEEEEEgor, Diao and Djimi came on.

[ho chi feen]

Norwich were pretty god-awful alright.

[Sugref]

Alonso & Gerrard will become the most dynamic, powerful and effective central partnership since Vieira & Petit - if we can replicate their success I'll be a happy man. I'd think they match up pretty nicely to the other top teams' pairings:

Arsenal - Vieira & Edu

Chelski - Lampard & Makalele/Smertin

Manyoo - Keane & Miller/DJ DJ/Fletcher

Newcastle - Jenas & Butt


Alonso - "Not only is Benitez a great coach, he is a master of psychology.

"He can make the players become friends and he can help them perform to a higher level. This is how he enabled Valencia to triumph in La Liga.

"I believe under Benitez our work will be excellent. I am convinced that this season the Reds can be considered to win the championship."

Alonso revealed that Real Madrid had also been interested in him but added - "When it came down to a choice between Madrid and Liverpool I chose Liverpool. They are the club that showed the biggest interest in me."


What about Dave Barry and Patsy Frane? It doesn't get much more dynamic than that...

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

Alonso is a good player. Would'nt mind signing him.

On the partnership issue Keane & Scholes are finished. They have been since Man Utd signed Veron. Scholes cant cover for Keane because he is a pure attacker so Keane would be left exposed.

The best partnership in the world are Pirlo & Gattuso. Playing with a big team in a big league. Whenever I see Gattuso he always plays well. If I could sign 1 player for MUFC it would be him. Can you imagine Gattuso, Keane, Heinze & Smith in the one team? Tackles would be flying in non stop.

[Coin]

Can you imagine Gattuso, Keane, Heinze & Smith in the one team? Tackles would be flying in non stop.
Instead of "first to score" you'd be able to bet on "first to get booked/sent off".

[tony starks]

Instead of "first to score" you'd be able to bet on "first to get booked/sent off".

my money would be on smith every time

[korn on the cob]

Ah the Naive Liverpool Fans, Alonso will get sick of finishing 4th and winning nothing and soon he will be back to spain along with rafa and his fucking useless zonal marking. United have 4 Good Strikers, Liverpool have one, Kewell was made to look like an idiot compared to Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney is looking a good buy. Scousers hanging on to past glories so very pathetic

[Philby]

La Liga Defensive Statistics (while Benitez coached Valencia)

2001-2002

Fewest Goals Conceded: 27 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.71 Valencia
Most Clean Sheets: 17 Valencia

2002-2003

Fewest Goals Conceded: 35 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.92 Valencia


2003-2004

Fewest Goals Conceded: 27 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.71 Valencia
Most Clean Sheets: 20 Valencia

I'd sit back and think a little bit more about your inane comments about Benitez's defensive strategy. The level of consistent top-notch defending he got from his Valencia players was amazing (granted he inherited a defensively strong side from Cuper) so I'd hold back on criticising Rafa just yet....

Man-marking at corners didn't seem to work so well at old trafford last night did it?

The truth is neither system is right or wrong. Where you triumph/fail is your implementation of your chosen system. If every player understands the system, keeps his position and challenges for the ball aggressively then the zonal system will work well (see valencia). It also reduces the possibility that a player could slip, be blocked or simply lose his man which can happen quite easily under a man-marking system.

Where it can fall down is where teams crowd specific areas and outnumber/block the defenders - it is up to each defender in the given situation to notice this and act accordingly. You need to knit a pre-defined, well-communicated strategy with a defender's in-built ability to sense danger.

Rooney - If you spend £27m on a player you'd bloody hope he'd be a good buy wouldn't ya. It was a no brainer. Rooney is a fine player. Any team in the world would buy him if they could (but maybe not at that price) - It's hardly a stroke of genius. United operate on a different financial plane than united. We can't afford to be paying ~£66m on strikers in the past three years (aswell as £33m on a centre back and £27m on a midfielder on massive wages who was an absolute flop and was sold on at a huge loss)

Liverpool have a good set of strikers, not just one.

Baros - £3m - Top scorer in Euro 2004

Cisse - £12m - French international, coveted by the best teams in europe. Fastest player in the league, consistently high goal record since the age of 18

Pongolle - £3m- Lightening quick. Best player & top scorer at under 17 world cup - has already made an impact in the premiership. Raw but could develop into a fine player
Add a certain striker purchase in January (most likely Mista on the cheap to fill the gap for a link striker in our squad) and you've a very good set of strikers for £50m less than manyoo have spent

I await your response......

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

To be honest Liverpool are only playing for 4th again. The have a good 1st team but I'm not convinced squad wise. Plus Kirkland surely has to get his place ahead of Dudek. Some good signings but they didnt deliver against good opposition last week & need more time to challenge.

[ho chi feen]

La Liga Defensive Statistics (while Benitez coached Valencia)

2001-2002

Fewest Goals Conceded: 27 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.71 Valencia
Most Clean Sheets: 17 Valencia


You forgot lowest gols total ever by a championship winning side, something ridiculous like 54, and lowest total for top scorer in a championship winning side, that seasons anchorman, Ruben Baraja with 7.

And the not insonsiderable presence of a true genius like Saviola.

[Philby]

That wouldn't bother me one bit. I'd prefer to share the goals around a side more evenly, you are at the mercy of injury/lack of form if you have one main striker who gets the majority of the goals.

Points win Leagues, not goal differences. Every fan of every team in every top league would gladly take a championship victory right now with the lowest points/goals scored/top scorer in history. I know you would - you may think liverpool are aiming for 4th place but you forget that united will be very lucky to break back into the top two - they are too inconsistent & are lacking centre-midfield now that Keane is regressing as a player.

and....erm...Saviola is a Barca player - wtf does he have to do with Valencia defensive displays?

[ho chi feen]

Whooooooooops!

Aimar is who I was referring to, of course! :D

[Philby]

Alonso had a massive impact on the pool yesterday and showed why himself & Gerrard are on a different plane to the likes of Diao. His passing was incisive, he always looks for the ball to link play & his crossing ability was shown to be on par with that of Gerrard.

Without him we looked blunt in midfield with everyone passing the buck - with him in the side instead of the severely limited Diao we become a forceful passing team with a real attacking edge.

Rafa, please don't leave this lad out of the starting line-up again unless he is severely injured!

We started with this line-up in midfield y'day:

Riise - Hamann - Diao - Garcia

It is my hope that by this time next month we'll have a far better line-up similar to the one below

Kewell - Alonso - Gerrard - Nunez/Garcia

[de mange]

Kewell - Alonso - Gerrard - Nunez/Garcia

stating the obvious there really.. i mean who wants to see igor trashcan or diao start very week?... another 8 mill of pools money blown by houllier

what has kewell done to deserve a place in that team ahead of warnock?
kewells been lazy and hasnt contributed anything close to whats required this season.. warnock looks young and eager to impress and gives the team a better option i reckon

pool vs man yoo a while back.. ronaldo was running riot on his wing..3 pool players to stop him everytime.. next thing kewell is 1 on 1 with silvestre and he tries the stepover routine.. but it looked like the camera was on a slow mo playback and silvestre just took the ball from him and ran away with it... kewell has proven himself to be not worthy of a mention in the same breath as true world class wingers in the prem such as pires, ronaldo, duff etc..
major dissapointment

[ho chi feen]

Kewell has been nothing short of attrocious this term. A real let down, but his infuriating inconsistency was all too obvious in his last few years at Leeds. I can't believe Inter were actually willing to fork out 25m on him at one stage! He needs to be replaced before Pool can be taken seriously. It's blatantly obvious that the only reason he went for 'Pool is that he knew he'd struggle to hold down a place in the starting XI at Old Trafford, or highbury; Just as it's obvious that the reason 'Pool signed him is because he was available on the cheap.

[Loftydog]

and....erm...Saviola is a Barca player - wtf does he have to do with Valencia defensive displays?

well hes actually with monaco now

[STEVIEG]

Haven't got time to read five pages of this but christ, a win against Fulham and we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Its like saying Rooney is the new Best, lets keep the comparisons till players actually win a few things in a couple of years.

[Philby]

Loftydog - No, Saviola is a Barca player. He is currently on loan to Monaco.

This is a Gerrard/Alonso thread so I don't want to turn this into yet another Kewell-bashing thread. Kewell is inconsistent, point taken. He has been carrying various injuries for the past 12 months and to be fair to him he looked top class at the pool up until then as well as scoring many goals from midfield (a major weakness under Houllier).

This "Kewell only signed for Liverpool because he was scared of not getting his game at Utd/Arse" frankly shows up the extreme arrogance of united fans.

How dare a player turn down the mighty Plc in favour of lowly Liverpool?

Kewell turned down better money from abroad & manyoo to join liverpool because:

1) He was a massive boyhood fan...the lad has heart, he is not a mercenary
2) He genuinely believed (rightly or wrongly) that the club was on an upward spiral - we may have stagnated a bit under GH but the future looks bright under Rafa - can you honestly say things look better for united now than when Kewell signed for us?
He spoke to GH & Alex F. and has since said that his conversation with Houllier was one of the main things that swung has way towards choosing Liverpool.

Anyways, getting back to the point at hand. Alonso looks an absolutely super signing. He's mature beyond his years (the lad is only 22), will compliment Gerrard really well & is a firm fan favourite already. Hopefully we can get a decent result V Depor tomorrow - if we are still in a good position by the time SG comes back I think we can do real damage in the CL this year aswell as overhauling united in the league. A CB addition in January would be handy too.

[STEVIEG]

Actually i coudnt resist it. I just re-read the whole five pages and i cant believe the shit being spouted about how good Kewell is. Also Cisse may be fast but he's not exactly proved himself as the best striker in the world yet has he. And again, we reach the bottom line-dont dismiss the careers of Scholes/Keane till they are over. Cause when they are, they'll have left a stack of Premierships/Cups behind them and no matter what happens its unlikely that will ever happen to Gerrard/Alonso as long as they stay with Liverpool, who will do well to finish fourth this season.

[FL4ZGN]

In my opinion Liverpool have a much bigger problem than finishing fourth this season and that is keeping hold of Steven Gerrard.

I think with the arrival of Alonso the departure of Gerrard could come much sooner than anticipated.

Anyone see how shite Michael Owen was on saturday for Madrid?

[STEVIEG]

A lot will depend on the next copule of months and how Liverpool fair in Europe. But i reckon he'll stay. At least they have a decent enough manager now.

[Philby]

The question isn't "Who has won more medals" its "Who is the better partnership"

You can fall back on the "well come back to me when he's won x league titles" argument if you want but that's a cop out. I wouldn't take any partnership in the world ahead of Gerrard & Alonso right now. Young, sublimely talented, hungry & all for a total layout of less than £12m.

No one said cisse is the best striker in the world mate. I can't see the point you're trying to make there.

Liverpool will finish at least 4th this year and at a canter. I think Utd are going to be seriously worried about being forced into 4th place themselves once rafa has a chance to work his magic.

[STEVIEG]

Fourth at a canter. Those who aim high................ .........I think United have bigger fish to fry. Getting at Arsenal, Chelsea domestically and the Champions league. As the great man said, Liverpool were "knocked off their perch a long time ago". To me, second, third and fourth are indistinguisable. None are good.

[Philby]

Indeed, Gerrard is what the Americans call a Franchise player, you can build a team around him. The key is improving each year (which I think rafa is more than capable of) & showing ambition. That'll keep Gerrard. If we begin to stagnate he won't be around for long. He rates Alonso highly himself & is very happy with the signings made (and i'm sure some of the dross offloaded).

At least we are in a better position than last year if SG does eventually leave - Alonso's presence would cushion the blow. I can't say I'd have been as happy to have Murphy or Hamann filling his shoes on a long-term basis.

although theres always eeeeeeeeeegooooooooo orrrrrr....see his goal @ the weekend? Surely a European player of the year award & a lucrative move to Madrid isn't far away?? :-)

[FL4ZGN]

I really need to ask the following to see is it just me or do others feel
the same?
Do Arsenal's "achievements" really hold any weight?

Their football is fantastic to watch, their movement is the best in England
right now and in Thierry Henry they have one of the finest footballers on
the planet. Consider what they've achieved under Wenger: 3 titles, 3 FA
Cups. They've gone a whole season unbeaten, 2 seasons unbeaten away from
home.

My opinion is that they have thus far failed in the Champions League, have
cracked under pressure in 2 title races against us and also in the FA Cup
semi finals of 1999 & 2004. They failed to Galatassaray in the 2000 UEFA Cup
final, have failed to win back to back titles. Yes their football is
excellent, but if playing excellent football & not necessarily winning the
major trophies on offer is something to be proud of were their neighbours
Tottenham not 20 years ahead of them? PLUS Tottenham did it in Europe.

Under Fergie we've landed 8 titles, 5 FA Cups, the League Cup, Champions
League, Cup Winners Cup, European Super Cup & Intercontinental Cup. Some
record.

A lot of list members here hate Liverpool FC & I suppose being from Ireland
I am not living close to Liverpool so the rivalry is not as intense for me.
I have to admit to liking the winning mentality Liverpool FC had in the
70's, 80's & 90's. Although the European Cup was different when Liverpool
won it & the back pass rule was a tool they used to near perfection they
beat what was in front of them over & over again with 4 European Cups & 2
UEFA Cups. Their 18 League titles came in a relatively short spell in their
history and they could produce runs when it mattered. Our 6-1 demolition of
Arsenal in 2001 reminded me of Liverpool's 5-0 hammering of Nottigham Forest
all those years ago. In short, while I never liked Liverpool, I admired how
season after season they'd bring in new players & just start all over again.


To me Arsenal just do not measure up to either Liverpool or United. They
need to win at least one European Cup and win back to back titles. Saying
they do not need to do this in order to be considered great is just b***ox.

Fair comment or not?

[STEVIEG]

Absolutely fair comment. If they piss away with the league this year again they will win more respect but in Europe they have been pitiful so far. Its the hardest trophy in the world to win these days and i cant remember the last time its been defended ( it wont be this year either). That said United should have won a couple more by now too.

[STEVIEG]

Indeed, Gerrard is what the Americans call a Franchise player, you can build a team around him. The key is improving each year (which I think rafa is more than capable of) & showing ambition. That'll keep Gerrard. If we begin to stagnate he won't be around for long. He rates Alonso highly himself & is very happy with the signings made (and i'm sure some of the dross offloaded).

At least we are in a better position than last year if SG does eventually leave - Alonso's presence would cushion the blow. I can't say I'd have been as happy to have Murphy or Hamann filling his shoes on a long-term basis.

although theres always eeeeeeeeeegooooooooo orrrrrr....see his goal @ the weekend? Surely a European player of the year award & a lucrative move to Madrid isn't far away?? :-)


A move to Madrid is no longer necessariily a step up. Read, Owen, Beckham etc etc

[STEVIEG]

Actually i take it back about Owen. It was a step up, but not necessarily a stepo in the right direction.

[STEVIEG]

Just realised you were on about Biscan. See your point. Now there's a franchise player.............. .......

[Captain Planet]

Ah the Naive Liverpool Fans, Alonso will get sick of finishing 4th and winning nothing and soon he will be back to spain along with rafa and his fucking useless zonal marking. United have 4 Good Strikers, Liverpool have one, Kewell was made to look like an idiot compared to Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney is looking a good buy. Scousers hanging on to past glories so very pathetic


yes us Liverpool fans can be naive. But as for utd, having 4 good strikers is no good when they aint bangin in the goals. I'm really talking about horseface who still writes his love letters to Becks asking him to come back. A tap in queen is what he is. And Liverpool have 2 good strikers. 1.Baros and 2.flor sinama pongolle.I think he's injured. and of course cisse but I'm not regarding him as good yet. Utd are no longer a strong force.

[STEVIEG]

Uniteds strikers looked unbalanced against a well organised defense on saturday but dont write them off yet. And as for tap in merchants, Van NisteleRooy, like Ian Rush, is quite simply a striker that practically any team would love. There are very few in world football capable of getting more goals than him. And goals win games.

[Captain Planet]

Ian rush could score from outside the penalty area. RVN cant. In fairness like, you have to admit,Ruud hasnt been the same without Becks.

[STEVIEG]

The same Becks who is more interested in photo opportunities than crossin the ball. No, his time was up. Of course he was one of Ruuds main supply lines but he still score's repeatedly. Look at his record. Especially in Europe. And i have great respect for Rush but he never took the ball in his own half and ran past 5 defenders to score like Ruud has done (Fulham 2002) United have the players to play from deep, ruud is there to score. He rarely gets the credit for his allround play either, look at the ball he thread for Roons first goal. And unlike other strikers, he is now proving it everytime at international level too by scoring practically a goal a game for Holland. And while the first of his two last week was a typical tap-in, the second was from the edge of the box. Actually, who gives a fuck where it was from. Uniteds most famous goal of them all was a scrappy tap in at the corner. And i'd never swap that moment for anything as long as i live so who really cares what kind of goals they are. I don't think too many liverpool fans were crying over Osheas own goal a couple of weeks ago. Or a couple id dodgy ones for Fulham saturday.

[Loftydog]

just to make a statement on the kewell affair on what pudgee said. I dont think that there was too many united fans that were unduely bothered when he signed for liverpool and him being a fan of the club is all well and good but what caused a great deal of merriment amongst the united fans was what kewell said when he signed that united were on the way out and that liverpool were going to be the major force again. the way that the transfer was treated with so much going to the agent instead of to leeds didnt exactly ender him to a lot of people either

[STEVIEG]

Yes indeed. Glad someone put that straight.

[STEVIEG]

And before ye mention alan Smith remember that he waved some of his personal fee in order to help Leeds. Harry and his agent cleaned up.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

Ian rush could score from outside the penalty area. RVN cant. In fairness like, you have to admit,Ruud hasnt been the same without Becks.

Ya true. That Cristiano Ronaldo bloke could'nt cross his legs and it was pure fluke that he set Ruud up for goals against Everton & Lyon in recent months.

[Captain Planet]

Ya true. That Cristiano Ronaldo bloke could'nt cross his legs and it was pure fluke that he set Ruud up for goals against Everton & Lyon in recent months.

good to know you agree with me.
Just look at the amount of goals ye have scored this season. Typical Utd fans. never wrong.
For fecks sake I could say look at the goals Kewell set up for baros or whoever in recent months aswell.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

good to know you agree with me.
Just look at the amount of goals ye have scored this season. Typical Utd fans. never wrong.
For fecks sake I could say look at the goals Kewell set up for baros or whoever in recent months aswell.

Do you really think that if Beckham was still at United they would have scored more goals? Come on. This debate is old.

[Philby]

just to make a statement on the kewell affair on what pudgee said. I dont think that there was too many united fans that were unduely bothered when he signed for liverpool and him being a fan of the club is all well and good but what caused a great deal of merriment amongst the united fans was what kewell said when he signed that united were on the way out and that liverpool were going to be the major force again. the way that the transfer was treated with so much going to the agent instead of to leeds didnt exactly ender him to a lot of people either
Ya, I'm sure the fact that Leeds got a raw deal (due to their worn stupidity) from the Kewell deal really made him unpopular with the Old Trafford Faithfull..

Every player that signs for a new club talks up their prospects. It's natural, you're on a high and are naturally feeling confident. I don't think he said anything like united are a spent force but he did comment on how he felt Liverpool would continue to improve and get back to close to their former glory

[ho chi feen]

Loftydog - No, Saviola is a Barca player. He is currently on loan to Monaco.

I wish to fawk there was an anal pedantry forum. ;)

This "Kewell only signed for Liverpool because he was scared of not getting his game at Utd/Arse" frankly shows up the extreme arrogance of united fans.

How dare a player turn down the mighty Plc in favour of lowly Liverpool?

Kewell turned down better money from abroad & manyoo to join liverpool because:

1) He was a massive boyhood fan...the lad has heart, he is not a mercenary
2) He genuinely believed (rightly or wrongly) that the club was on an upward spiral - we may have stagnated a bit under GH but the future looks bright under Rafa - can you honestly say things look better for united now than when Kewell signed for us?
He spoke to GH & Alex F. and has since said that his conversation with Houllier was one of the main things that swung has way towards choosing Liverpool.

I don't think it's even remotely an example of 'extreme Utd. Arrogance' to suggest that Kewll would struggle to hold down a first team spot at United or Arsenal. Ask any Arsenal fan- they'll say the same- so how could that be construed as 'Utd. Arrogance'? Fact of the matter is, given Pools weakness on the wings, he was guaranteed a starting XI spot- never a good thing IMHO (Look at Giggs & United; both would benefit from competition in that spot- instead, and regardless of form, etc, he is guaranteed his spot wen fully fit).

I don't think that it's in any way fanciful to suggest that had he gone to United, he would have to work doubly hard for a spot with both Giggs & Ronaldo in the mix. Likewise, if he had gone to Arsenal, he would have had to fight for a spot with Pires, Ljunberg, and now Reyes & Van Persie (granted, the latter two will also figure in Wenger's vision for the post bergkamp strikeforce). The competition at Liverpool is non existant by comparison.

There's nothing wrong with going to a club where you can be confident of your spot in the team- I just feel that, given the circumstances, he's playing within the comfort zone (Again, Giggs anyone?). Liverpool should have had the nerve to spend the Cash on Duff. They still would have had the spare change to pick up the wayward Australian, who at any rate could only benefit from having to play his way into the side.

Given his continued Anaemic displays since joining Liverpool, I think it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that he'd struggle to make the Bench at United, or Arsenal.

As for Alonso, he's proved to be the astute signing that we all took him for. As the evidence on saturday highlighted, drop this man at your peril, Sr Benítez.

[Loftydog]

Ya, I'm sure the fact that Leeds got a raw deal (due to their worn stupidity) from the Kewell deal really made him unpopular with the Old Trafford Faithfull..


he didnt become unpopular with united fans over the move....that was my point. The comments only made him a figure of mirth at old trafford because they were so unbelievable

[Philby]

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of displaying the extreme arrogance of united fans with that comment. That you all thought that Kewell saw Liverpool as a better option than united as he felt they were on the up & up is "unbelievable" and a source of "mirth" just backs up my point.

[ho chi feen]

Why?

[ho chi feen]

Interestingly, those renowned proponents of 'extreme Man Utd. arrogance', Paddy Agnew and Mark Lawrenson both expressed similar opinions on Kewell's attitude and lack of ambition, just now on Today FM. Lawro said that Ferguson had mentioned being concerned about Kewell's mental state when he spoke to him about a prospective move- Lawro also said, nothwithstnading Arsenal moving ahead of United in the meantime, that it spoke volumes about the players temperament that he would turn a move to United- that it highlighted an element of doubt in his own ability.

More extreme United arrogance.

[ho chi feen]

He also said that Kewell 'simply hadn't turned up' since his transfer, and that he 'couldn't put his finger' on why. He wondered whether it was actually Kewell that had been signed at all.

But sure, he's Man U biased- w\asn't he born in Preston? Bottom line, he can't be trusted. Time to put the blinkers back on, methinks.

[Loftydog]

Interestingly, those renowned proponents of 'extreme Man Utd. arrogance', Paddy Agnew and Mark Lawrenson both expressed similar opinions on Kewell's attitude and lack of ambition, just now on Today FM. Lawro said that Ferguson had mentioned being concerned about Kewell's mental state when he spoke to him about a prospective move- Lawro also said, nothwithstnading Arsenal moving ahead of United in the meantime, that it spoke volumes about the players temperament that he would turn a move to United- that it highlighted an element of doubt in his own ability.

More extreme United arrogance.


Didnt they say that he was mentally unfit for the challenge that faced him trying to get into the united side and that he knew it would be easy for him to play in the liverpool side?

[ho chi feen]

Didnt they say that he was mentally unfit for the challenge that faced him trying to get into the united side and that he knew it would be easy for him to play in the liverpool side?

Something along those lines. Still- nice free kick last night, unlucky Harry (if that really is your name).

[Philby]

This just backs up even further my assertion that the attitude of utd/it's fans is arrogant to the extreme in this instance.

Fergie was so dumbfounded that Harry would turn down a move to "The Biggest Football Club in the World" (tm) that he questioned whether he was mentally sane. He thinks that anyone that chooses a club over united must be insane or lacking ambition. That is arrogance in the extreme.

Also I couldn't give a sh1t if this tidbit of info came via Lawrenson. He's an odious little camp sh1t who'll say anything to gain attention. This is the same man who said categorically that
(1) Houllier would quit football after his illness and not return to Liverpool
(2) Martin O'Neill will definately be the next Liverpool Manager.

The version of events I heard was

Liverpool agree terms with Harry - Fergie gets wind, rings Harry on his personal phone twice. Harry has a chat with Fergie and based on that decides that he'd prefer to go to Liverpool. He tells Fergie who goes nuts claiming it'll be the worst mistake of his football career...Harry replies

"It didn't do Alan Shearer any harm!"

P.S. Where was all this anti-Kewell sniping when he got ~15 goals from midfield in his first season @ Liverpool?

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

"It didn't do Alan Shearer any harm!"


I laugh whenever anyone says that. OK so Shearer became English captain & scored a shitload of goals for Newcastle but football is a TEAM game & what have Newcastle won since he joined?

"David May Superstar. He's got more medals than Shearer!"

[ho chi feen]

This just backs up even further my assertion that the attitude of utd/it's fans is arrogant to the extreme in this instance.

Fergie was so dumbfounded that Harry would turn down a move to "The Biggest Football Club in the World" (tm) that he questioned whether he was mentally sane. He thinks that anyone that chooses a club over united must be insane or lacking ambition. That is arrogance in the extreme.

Also I couldn't give a sh1t if this tidbit of info came via Lawrenson. He's an odious little camp sh1t who'll say anything to gain attention. This is the same man who said categorically that
(1) Houllier would quit football after his illness and not return to Liverpool
(2) Martin O'Neill will definately be the next Liverpool Manager.


P.S. Where was all this anti-Kewell sniping when he got ~15 goals from midfield in his first season @ Liverpool?

It was right here, as you may recall, due to his poor displays, and lack of consistency, coupled with the occasional decent display/goals.

How about The Irish Time's (And World Soccer's) highly respected Italian correspondent, Paddy Agnew? Can you equally dismiss him as being guilty of 'extreme Utd. Arrogance' and 'an odious little camp sh1t who'll say anything to gain attention', or whatever slander you choose to level at those (and there are many) who refuse to join you in worshipping at the alter of the wayward Australian one?

The Alan Shearer comparison is laughable in terms of medals, however at least he has led a highly successful (from a personal point of view) career, and led his hometown heroes with distinction. That Kewell would consider himself even comparable to such a great player says it all IMHO (Although I suspect that's a bullshit anecdote, somehow).

[Loftydog]

The Alan Shearer comparison is laughable in terms of medals, however at least he has led a highly successful (from a personal point of view) career, and led his hometown heroes with distinction. That Kewell would consider himself even comparable to such a great player says it all IMHO (Although I suspect that's a bullshit anecdote, somehow).

ah sure david may got more medals than shearer which tells you a lot. he like kewell only saw money signs and paid for it with lack of success...

But honestly philby, do you reckon that kewell would replace either pires for arsenal or giggs at united? I sincerely doubt it. Thats why he went for liverpool. he knew that they were lacking a quality left sided player and knew that he would get his game whatever

[Philby]

as I said previously, this is a Gerrard/Alonso thread and there are plently other threads to abuse kewell on but.....

United offered Harry more money than liverpool did - FACT. To say he only saw the money signs is blatantly untrue.

Alan Shearer turned united down twice - once to join blackburn and once to join newcastle. I think he has had a fine career - when he retires he'll be able to look himself in the mirror and say he's achieved something with his career and everything he's got he worked damn hard for. Can David May say the same? Giving him rushed 2 minute sub appearances when the title is sown up so that he can get his medal is frankly embarassing.

Where do Arsenal come into this? They never put in a bid for Harry so therefore he never had the choice to go to them. I dare say he may well have gone to them had they gone in for him (due largely to the fact that you'd foolish to turn down the opportunity to work with wenger). Having said that Pires could've switched wings and played on the right leaving the left mid slot open - ljungberg has had a few injuries and a big dip in form aswell as being constantly linked with moves abroad. Harry could've slotted in well @ arsenal.

The point I was making was that Manyoo fans are so arrogant that the only explanation to Kewell turning them down could be "he's scared of not getting his game" or as Fergie is alleged to have said "he's not right mentally". That's what annoys me.

Whether he would have got a regular game or not at united is irrelevant (on form he's every bit as good as giggs), it's the fact that manyoo fans think it's every players sole purpose to eventually get a move to old trafford...everythin g else is second place. So if someone turns them down it must be a problem with the player (or in Ronaldinho's case a problem with Kenyon), it's never simply that a player doesn't want to go to Old Trafford.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

Alan Shearer turned united down twice - once to join blackburn and once to join newcastle. I think he has had a fine career - when he retires he'll be able to look himself in the mirror and say he's achieved something with his career and everything he's got he worked damn hard for. Can David May say the same? Giving him rushed 2 minute sub appearances when the title is sown up so that he can get his medal is frankly embarassing.


David May has started in the same number of F.A. Cup finals as Alan Shearer. Difference is May has two winners medals.

May was part of United's 1st choice central defensive unit for the league winning side of 96/97. This earned him an England call-up only he got injured in training. After his injury he never regained his place as a United regular.

I'm not saying May had more talent than Shearer because that would be stupid but I think he had more ambition. I mean Maysie is a Manchester man but he supports City. He still didnt let that get in the way of winning medals at United.

[ho chi feen]

Where do Arsenal come into this? They never put in a bid for Harry so therefore he never had the choice to go to them. I dare say he may well have gone to them had they gone in for him (due largely to the fact that you'd foolish to turn down the opportunity to work with wenger). Having said that Pires could've switched wings and played on the right leaving the left mid slot open - ljungberg has had a few injuries and a big dip in form aswell as being constantly linked with moves abroad. Harry could've slotted in well @ arsenal.

The point I was making was that Manyoo fans are so arrogant that the only explanation to Kewell turning them down could be "he's scared of not getting his game" or as Fergie is alleged to have said "he's not right mentally". That's what annoys me.

Whether he would have got a regular game or not at united is irrelevant (on form he's every bit as good as giggs), it's the fact that manyoo fans think it's every players sole purpose to eventually get a move to old trafford...everythin g else is second place. So if someone turns them down it must be a problem with the player (or in Ronaldinho's case a problem with Kenyon), it's never simply that a player doesn't want to go to Old Trafford.


Any chance you might give a straight answer on this? Would he be able to win a place with Giggs & Ronaldo at United, or Pires, Reyes, Ljungberg & Van Persie at Arsenal? It seems like a perfectly simple question to me.

[Philby]

Whether he would get a spot in either team is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to this thread!!!!! but to satisfy your curiosity

Presuming Kewell is in good form & free from injuries:

at the time he went to Liverpool:

United - Ronaldo wasn't around, Giggs was (and still is stagnating), limited striking options up front. Kewell would get a lot of games esp. due to his ability to play (and score regularly) off the front man

Arsenal - Neither Van Piersie & Reyes were at the club. Pires is capable of playing right mid although at the time Ljungberg was in great form & scoring loads. He'd get a fair few games (again due to his ability to play off the front man and his ability to fit into wenger's fluid attacking style) but less than he'd get an manyoo

now:

United - Giggs hasn't got any better (predictably), on top form he's every bit as good as giggs & would give him a good battle. Would struggle to get games off the front man as scholes/rooney are earnmarked for that role.

Arsenal - Ljungberg doesn't look to be the player he was 2 yrs ago so the left mid spot (with Pires swapping over) is still open. Reyes would limit his chances to play off the front man ('cos he's a savage player), van Piersie looks like he might be a good find but is far from the finished article. Would get fairly regular game but not as likely as 2 yrs ago.

[ho chi feen]

See now.. was it that hard? :D



I'm not sure I like your employing the term "on top form" however. You're only as good as your last game (Figuratively). You could make "on top form" arguments for players like Scholes, Fowler, Rui Costa and Hernan Crespo which would be, despite their merits, both misleading & disingenuous (sp?).

[Philby]

The Xabi-Stevie love-in continues - I really think that these two are getting a hard on about the prospect of partnering eachother in centre midfield. With each players ability to dominate the rhythm of games, ping inch-perfect passes and tackle ferociously I can understand why....


Steven Gerrard admits he's baffled why a player of Xabi Alonso's undoubted class is not a regular for Spain.
Alonso, 22, is expected to win his 12th full cap against England in Madrid on Wednesday - a tally Gerrard believes should be much higher.

The former Real Sociedad midfielder only joined Liverpool in September but the Reds captain has been hugely impressed by what he has seen of him so far.

"I watch a lot of Spanish football on television and I cannot understand why Xabi is not one of the first names on their team-sheet," says Gerrard.

"Obviously they have a lot of good midfielders in the likes of Baraja and Albelda. But Xabi is the best of them all.

"Everyone can see that he is a talented footballer. He can pass it long or short, is technically gifted and very rarely gives the ball away.

"But what has impressed me is his attitude and professionalism for such a young lad. He's only 22 but he eats, sleeps and drinks football. He's very similar to Jamie Carragher in that respect."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N146759041116-1408.htm

Xabi Alonso hailed the imminent return to first team action of Steven Gerrard and admitted his presence in the Liverpool side has been sorely missed.
As he prepares for Wednesday night's friendly international against England in Madrid, the Reds Spain international has revealed his delight at the news that Gerrard is available for the trip to Middlesbrough on Saturday.

"Gerrard is a spectacular player and he provides charisma for the team with his play, and is so important for the supporters," says Alonso.

"He plays in midfield but gives so much support to the attack also. He is a powerful player that could triumph at any club.

"Gerrard, in the Spanish league, would give exhibitions of his quality in every match.

"Liverpool have felt the absence of Gerrard, and England also. For the football the best news is his rapid return to fitness."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N146757041116-1053.htm

[STEVIEG]

Get a room boys!

[ho chi feen]

The Xabi-Stevie love-in continues - I really think that these two are getting a hard on about the prospect of partnering eachother in centre midfield. With each players ability to dominate the rhythm of games, ping inch-perfect passes and tackle ferociously I can understand why....


!!!

Fuppin' gayers, I remember what it were like back in the good olden dayes...

Dear Sir,

I'm feeling all angry about these modern day footballers, I know why they have gone all soft - it's because of poncy names. That's what it is. Remember in the old days, when footy players kicked a fucking ball made out of ten pound of clay stitched inside a steel-reinforced leather shell with laces made out of piano wire? Well, in them days players could only survive the rigours of the game because they were called things like Albert, Bert, Harry, Bill, Eddie, Bob, Jack and Tommy. Fucking tough names for tough men, them was. And what do we have now? Gareth, Jason, Wayne, Dean, Ryan, Jamie, Robbie. Fucking tarts' names, they are. Great big fucking puffs. No wonder the ball's like a fucking balloon and shin pads are like slices of bread. In the old days you never saw a Len Shackleton or a Billy Wright with a puffy little Sondico piece of paper down his little socks. Fucking shin pads in them days was made out of library books, and socks was like
sackcloth. Same with the jerseys. Fucking shirts with holes in now so they can breathe. Yes, so that little Jody's hairless chest can breathe and he doesn't get a chill. Fuck off. Stanley Matthews used to dribble round Europe's finest wearing a fucking tent and shorts cobbled together from the jacket of his de-mob suit. Aye, he fucking did.

No wonder players fall over all the time whenever an opponent comes anywhere near them. And they never used to show arses at one another either. Can you imagine what might have happened if Don Revie had flashed his ring at Nat Lofthouse during a City-Bolton Wanderers game? He'd have got one of them size-13 hobnail fuckers up his bastard chuff.

Fucking therapy for stress my arse! Stan Collymore slaps his missus about and he takes three seasons off with stress counseling. What the fuck is that all about? In the old days it was expected for footballers to belt the old sow about a bit, especially after a bad defeat. And the women used to expect it, and so they should have. They was lucky to be married to footballers. Ha! Trevor Morley got a kitchen knife in his back off his wife and was out of action for three month. Soft twat. Archie McShitt of Port Vale got run over with horse and cart one Friday night and he still turned out against Bradford the following day. And he scored two goals. That's cos his name wasn't "Trevor". Good old Archie. Broke his hip, both his legs, murdered his wife and buried her under the patio and still made the England team for the Home Internationals. Did he have any "stress counseling"? Did he bollocks!

And drugs? There was none of that in the old days. Oh, no. In them days it was a quick shot of morphine before kick-off and you was lucky if you got that. By half-time it had all but worn off so they pumped you full of laudanum. None of this cocaine sniffing and shooting up class A narcotics.

Goal celebrations? Don't talk to me about goal celebrations. Crawling on the floor and thrusting their hips at the crowd. Huh! I'd like to have seen Cliff Bastin do that after a run down the left flank and crossing for Alex James to fire home a winner. Handshakes..... and that was all you got. That and a wank in the showers afterwards. But it was a proper wank ......all man stuff. None of these puffy wanks between blokes that you get nowadays with players like Graeme Le Saux and Stephen Gerrard. Allegedly. In them days, there was nowt wrong with it cos it didn't mean nowt. They used to say there was a "gay atmosphere" in the dressing room after the match. But it didn't mean owt mucky. Just a bit of harmless spanking the plank among healthy young sportsmen. Aye. I know. Me dad told me.

Sixty grand a fucking week! Ha! I wouldn't pay 'em tuppence. Two bob Tommy Lawton used to get.... a month! And Tom Finney still worked as a plumber four days a week when he was playing for England. It's true, you know. Fucking is. Players had to work them days just to make up their money. Not like today. Stan Pearson had to clean sewers and doubled up as Old Trafford shithouse cleaner. He had to go off during one game because some **** had built a log cabin and blocked the U-bend. And that Eddie Hapgood was a male model...though he never liked to talk about it.

So I say we start calling kids real male names again. If you're having a kid, don't even consider puffy names and shite names like what people call their kids these days. Otherwise what we gonna get in twenty years' time? The England team full of players called Keanu, Ronan, Ashley and fucking Chesney. Fuck that! Call your kids Alf, Herbert, Len, Frank, Fred and Wilf. And let's get the puffs out of the game once and for all.

I thank you.

[shammy feen]

Chelsea are poised to bid 30 million for Gerrard in January 2005 in a new offer, although Steven has recently signed a new contract with the dippers. They are going to offer him £100,000 a week salary...

I dont think Abramovich takes no for an answer....

Shammy

p.s personally I think he would be excellent back-up for Lampard...hehehe

[FL4ZGN]

Excuse my ignorance lads but how many of Liverpools Spanish contingent are in the Spanish squad for tonights game?

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

I still reckon Fergie bought the wrong scouser. Whether Gerrard would sign for United is another matter.

[FL4ZGN]

I still reckon Fergie bought the wrong scouser. Whether Gerrard would sign for United is another matter.


I agree totally, he made a similar error a few years back when he forked out 28 million for Veron and could have got Vierra for 8 or 9 million.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

I agree totally, he made a similar error a few years back when he forked out 28 million for Veron and could have got Vierra for 8 or 9 million.

TBH Fergie could have got Gattuso or Baraja for about 15mil. Better value again than signing Rooney. Now Gattuso has signed on at Milan til '09.

[Philby]

There were strong rumours that the contract Gerrard turned down from Chelsea consisted of:

£120,000 per week BASIC (rising to £200,000 per week if chelski won on a sat & midweek & gerrard scores)

A years salary (over £6m) as a sign-on bonus aswell as the fee being in the region of £30-35m.

Can't see how Gerrard would change his mind and sign for the rushians in Jan for anything less than the above.

It goes without saying that Gerrard would've been a far better buy than Gerrard. He'd address a big weakness in the utd side (mid-long term successor to keane), is more mature and has played consistently well for longer than Rooney. I simply don't think that Utd could ever get him & I think Fergie knows that.

To my knowledge only Alonso is in the Spanish squad tonight. Josemi has only recently got his first call-up & Garcia has yet to play for spain.

[shammy feen]

It goes without saying that Gerrard would've been a far better buy than Gerrard.


Yes.........**backs off slowly from Philby**

[Philby]

Indeed I have finally lost it!!

To be fair the signs were there: The devotion to Houllier, the unflinching faith in Kewell...you must have known something was up...

http://www.magicofchristoph er.com/straight-jacket.jpg

[shammy feen]

Looking good there Philby!...like Micky Quinn meets Houdini....

[RedCityKid]

Personally speaking I'd have to say that there is no way I'd trade Viera and Fabregas for Alonso and Gerrard. Fabregas ia as good as Alonso at 17 so whats he gonna be like in 5 years time??

[ho chi feen]

I agree totally, he made a similar error a few years back when he forked out 28 million for Veron and could have got Vierra for 8 or 9 million.
I don't think that was SAF's fault.. Vieira did his usual summer 'will he, won't he?' caper- I think he might have been on the verge of going, but decided to stay put. After all, United only went back on the Verón trail once Vieira had committed himself to the gooners. And the rest, as they say, is the biggest dropped bollock in history.

[Philby]

These latest comments from Gerrard on the eve of a truly huge game are at best ill-timed, at worst disgraceful. He should be rallying the troops not pissing & moaning about how many medals he'll have to show his kids when he retires.

Thousands of people regularly pay a huge chunk of their weekly wage, give up time with their family & invest emotionally to watch you every week lad. You are getting paid extortionate wages to play the game you love with the club you love yet you miss no opportunity to remind us that if Rafa's Revolution stalls slightly you'll be off down to those cockney twats sooner than you can say "sell out".

A fine player he might be but to be honest I'm not sure if his heart is in it & I really think he's coming out with these comments to slowly break the bond with the fans to enable the final break to be easier. If that's the case then we're better off cashing in on him in the summer & building a team around the likes of Alonso, Baros, Cisse & Le Tallec (if he takes the step up and fulfills his potential)



Gerrard issues honours ultimatum
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40134000/jpg/_40134178_gerrardb20 3.jpg
Gerrard's career statistics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/teams/l/liverpool/players/42671/html/profile1_hi.stm)
Liverpool v Olympiakos (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4068163.stm)

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard says he will leave Anfield if the club does not win the Premiership soon.

He said: "I can't wait three or four years for Liverpool to be turned into a title-winning team.

"It would mean a lot to me to be successful with Liverpool but it has got to be happening now for me.

"I want to see signs we can be genuine challengers next time. But if I do leave, I know some fans will understand and others will turn against me."

Gerrard, who turns 25 in the summer, believes new manager Rafael Benitez is getting Liverpool on the right track but feels progress has to move faster.

He added: "He [Benitez] is moving things in the right direction, but the leeway is going to have to be made up a bit sharpish.

"Hopefully I will have a big family by the time I'm 34 and I'd like to have a few medals to show my children. "It's a difficult situation, because the club means so much to me and I want to help get Liverpool back to the top. "That's why I didn't leave in the summer. I wanted to give the club a chance to be turned into a title-winning outfit, but time is not on my side."

[STEVIEG]

I agree with you bad timing if I was fan i'd be annoyed.

[Up For The Ba]

Very surprised by those comments I must say. Its very poor form from him to be so public about his feelings, especially ahead of a huge game. Its bound to have an effect on the players.

[dotty]

he'll be gone in the summer to real no doubt about that..shame he has to keep reminding fans of his "eagerness" to leave especially as you say on the eve of their most important game of the season so far

any chance fergie could talk him into going to OT..what bout his mate rooney??

[STEVIEG]

I was thinking about that this morning-useful back-up for Double Djemba if he gets injured........nah seriously, one of the few players who could fill United's midfield gap but i can't see it happening-i'd say it could be Madrid or Chelsea.
Anything can happen though in football.

[Philby]

Whether he would get a spot in either team is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to this thread!!!!! but to satisfy your curiosity

Presuming Kewell is in good form & free from injuries:

at the time he went to Liverpool:

United - Ronaldo wasn't around, Giggs was (and still is stagnating), limited striking options up front. Kewell would get a lot of games esp. due to his ability to play (and score regularly) off the front man

Arsenal - Neither Van Piersie & Reyes were at the club. Pires is capable of playing right mid although at the time Ljungberg was in great form & scoring loads. He'd get a fair few games (again due to his ability to play off the front man and his ability to fit into wenger's fluid attacking style) but less than he'd get an manyoo

now:

United - Giggs hasn't got any better (predictably), on top form he's every bit as good as giggs & would give him a good battle. Would struggle to get games off the front man as scholes/rooney are earnmarked for that role.

Arsenal - Ljungberg doesn't look to be the player he was 2 yrs ago so the left mid spot (with Pires swapping over) is still open. Reyes would limit his chances to play off the front man ('cos he's a savage player), van Piersie looks like he might be a good find but is far from the finished article. Would get fairly regular game but not as likely as 2 yrs ago.
It's to early to say but there are definate signs that kewell is returning to top form. The way he skinned the fullback for pongolle's goal was a joy to see. An injury-free, on form Harry Kewell would be a big player in Rafa's plans. Although two good performances are nothing to get overly excited about they are encouraging signs.

[dotty]

two good performances

not being smart or anything but last night and.....

[Philby]

Villa on saturday

[Rebelred]

I was thinking about that this morning-useful back-up for Double Djemba if he gets injured........nah seriously, one of the few players who could fill United's midfield gap but i can't see it happening-i'd say it could be Madrid or Chelsea.
Anything can happen though in football.
all depends on how united do this season.progress far in the Champs league and we might had a little cash to spend.remember,we've spent next summers budget on the boy wonder

[STEVIEG]

True-they mite allow the year afters budget though if a special scouser comes up like last year!!!!!!-they can then keep spending next years cash this year!!!!!

[ho chi feen]

Villa on saturday
Depends on your definition of 'good performance', I suppose.

[Philby]

Indeed it does. Although his first goal in a millenium and a great assist is better than he's been producing so far this year to be fair.

[Philby]

It goes without saying that Gerrard would've been a far better buy than Rooney. He'd address a big weakness in the utd side (mid-long term successor to keane), is more mature and has played consistently well for longer than Rooney. I simply don't think that Utd could ever get him & I think Fergie knows that.

I reckon Fergie has sounded out Gerrard (prob via a third party) before he went for Rooney and was told where to get off. Can't blame him for trying though

No Gerrard move - Fergie (TEAMTALK)


Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed that Manchester United will not be making a controversial raid on rivals Liverpool for star Steven Gerrard.

Ferguson has made no secret of his admiration for the Anfield powerhouse and sees him as the ideal midfield replacement for Old Trafford favourite Roy Keane.

But Ferguson acknowledges the fierce rivalry between the two clubs, and Gerrard's own opposition to the move, means any offer is never likely to get off the ground.

"I don't really want to discuss Gerrard. We just can't get Gerrard, the boy won't come here," Ferguson told The Guardian.

[ho chi feen]

Indeed it does. Although his first goal in a millenium and a great assist is better than he's been producing so far this year to be fair.

It's all realtive, I suppose. Maybe next week he'll have reached Kleberson's level of performance. ;)

[Teknique]

It's all realtive, I suppose. Maybe next week he'll have reached Kleberson's level of performance. ;)


Impossible - doesn't he have to play first? :)

[Philby]

Well according to Fergie it was Kleberson who won the world cup for Brazil so if Harry ever put in displays as good as the under-used kiddy-fiddler I'd of course be delighted.

Kewell got man of the match @ the weekend from the Guardian (I thought Baros & Alonso were far better tbh) which is encouraging. His piece of skill & throughball for the 3rd goal was sublime. He needs to keep it up & hopefully this summer will allow him to finally rid himself of his niggling injury problems (not an blanket excuse for his displays but surely are a factor)

[STEVIEG]

Kewell has finally made it-that Man of the match in the Guardian will silence the critics for sure........

[Philby]

Nobody is saying that lad but if there's a thread saying he's sh1t and under-delivering & he takes an upturn in form across 4 or 5 games it's valid to highlight that. I'm not going OTT, only pointing out that his form is improving.

[STEVIEG]

Cool i'm only trying to wind ya up fair point.

[Philby]

Kewell out for a month. I'm of the opinion that we're nearly better off letting go get his operation(s) now, give him a decent period to recover and get him back in the side fully fit next year.

Liverpool have been dealt a blow with the news that Harry Kewell will be out for at least a month after having an injection in a groin injury.
It is a blow for Liverpool and the player who was coming back to his best form before he picked up the groin injury in the 3-1 win over Newcastle United at Anfield.

Liverpool FC Head of Press Ian Cotton said: "Harry saw a specialist on Wednesday and has received an injection in his groin. He is likely to be out of action between four and five weeks."

[Captain Planet]

riise looks alot better on the left than kewell anyway.always more likely to take chances and score.

[Philby]

Riise is in a purple patch at the moment. All his shots are being struck sweetly & he looks more capable of beating his opposing right back than ever....that said I do think that a fully-fit, on form Kewell is streets ahead of an on-form Riise (and most other wingers in the league for that matter). It's good that we have Warnock & Riise to full in for Kewell while he's out though. Both of which are well capable of doing a job on the left wing

[Langer Dan]

Riise is in a purple patch at the moment. All his shots are being struck sweetly & he looks more capable of beating his opposing right back than ever....that said I do think that a fully-fit, on form Kewell is streets ahead of an on-form Riise (and most other wingers in the league for that matter). It's good that we have Warnock & Riise to full in for Kewell while he's out though. Both of which are well capable of doing a job on the left wing

Ah, but your comparison ignores one crucial element





















They're both shit

[ho chi feen]

Both of which are well capable of doing a job on the left wing

Don't know if that's true, but if so, strictly speaking, that's a lot more than anything Kewell has done in the last two to three years.

[Captain Planet]

that said I do think that a fully-fit, on form Kewell is streets ahead of an on-form Riise (and most other wingers in the league for that matter).

an on form kewell is a rare thing these days.

[Philby]

Another goal and solid performance from Riise today. He really is a threat from any distance and has the stamina to get into the box regularly while still providing excellent protection to the left back.

Warnock looked very assured again today & displayed that, unlike many younger players making the step up, he is well able for the physical side of the game.

And for the first time in a long while gerrard was average, our performance was patchy at best yet we still nicked all the points. We need to learn (from the likes of Chelski) to do this more regularly.

[ho chi feen]

Another goal and solid performance from Riise today. He really is a threat from any distance and has the stamina to get into the box regularly while still providing excellent protection to the left back.

Warnock looked very assured again today & displayed that, unlike many younger players making the step up, he is well able for the physical side of the game.

And for the first time in a long while gerrard was average, our performance was patchy at best yet we still nicked all the points. We need to learn (from the likes of Chelski) to do this more regularly.

Do you ever read your man in the Arena about Liverpool? He doesn't seem to rate Gerrard at all. Strange.

[Loftydog]

Do you ever read your man in the Arena about Liverpool? He doesn't seem to rate Gerrard at all. Strange.

I just think he believes that gerrard shows up for the bigger games and often goes missing when it comes to the less high profile ones and that he is sick of his courting of other clubs

[shammy feen]

Lampard broke alonso's ankle in a tackle last saturday.....

[shammy feen]

More bad news for the dippers...

Alonso out for the season?
Liverpool, Tuesday January 25 2005
Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez has revealed that Xabi Alonso is unlikely to play again this season after breaking his ankle against Chelsea.

The £10m midfielder was injured in a challenge with Frank Lampard in the 1-0 defeat to Jose Mourinho's Premiership pacesetters on New Year's Day and although he was orignally expected to be out for around 12 weeks, Benitez on Tuesday confirmed the worst.

He told the club's website: "In my mind now I think that Xabi will not play again this season.

"After three months, you don't know, some players can come straight back but some players take a lot of time. If Xabi comes back it will be a bonus."

The news come as a further blow to Liverpool's hopes of finishing fourth and claiming a crucial Champions League place.

In Alonso's absence, the Reds' form has taken a dramatic nosedive and Benitez may well be forced into one final foray into the transfer market before the window closes on 31 January.

[Philby]

Absolute disaster really. I'm sure Rafa was intending on building his team around Alonso & Gerrard but they have barely had a chance to play together (but looked great in the limited opportunites they've had together). Whether Gerrard can look beyond our current predicament & see that there is a bright future for the club when we get all our injured players back is open to debate though.

[Rebelred]

Whether Gerrard can look beyond our current predicament & see that there is a bright future for the club when we get all our injured players back is open to debate though.

Clubs will always have injuries though,so to hope that things will be instantly better when fellas return is clutching at straws.Except for those Russians,who since robbens injury,have barely lost a player to a bout of the flu!
I think Gerrards looking at property in london,which would be bad news for the pool in the long term.Sure ye would get a lash of cash off those pesky russian rent boys,but as Hansen said to the beeb,Liverpool only have 5 or 6 top class players,the top three clubs have at least 16 or 17,which is why ye need to hang onto him if ye can at all.

[STEVIEG]

I dunno i'm starting to agree with Mark Weber on the whole Gerrard thing. If the whole club is gonna be based around whether he stays or goes its gonna have a disruptive influence. Its starting to remind me a bit of before Beckham left OT although to be fair Gerrard is much younger and yet to peak. He still has to develop though and he's far from the finished article. Maybe they should build the future around a fit again Alonso starting next year. If Chelski offer silly money surely they will take it. And do Chelsea really need him i'm not sure.

[Fat Tom]

I dunno i'm starting to agree with Mark Weber on the whole Gerrard thing. If the whole club is gonna be based around whether he stays or goes its gonna have a disruptive influence. Its starting to remind me a bit of before Beckham left OT although to be fair Gerrard is much younger and yet to peak. He still has to develop though and he's far from the finished article. Maybe they should build the future around a fit again Alonso starting next year. If Chelski offer silly money surely they will take it. And do Chelsea really need him i'm not sure.

well with their formation he'd be better than Tiago.
But would he be the one to lose out when they want 4-4-2

[shammy feen]

well with their formation he'd be better than Tiago.
But would he be the one to lose out when they want 4-4-2

Mourinho would see Gerrard as a replacement for Tiago or Joe Cole in a 4-4-2. I'd say Scott Parkers days as a blue are numbered if Gerrard arrives.4-3-3 is the preferred formation however with Gerrard playing alongside Lampard with Makalele sitting behind them and Robben, Duff and Drogba up front

[chipsncheese]

Mourinho would see Gerrard as a replacement for Tiago or Joe Cole in a 4-4-2. I'd say Scott Parkers days as a blue are numbered if Gerrard arrives.4-3-3 is the preferred formation however with Gerrard playing alongside Lampard with Makalele sitting behind them and Robben, Duff and Drogba up front



what r u on about???hes not leaving us for ye huns!!!

[Coin]

Clubs will always have injuries though,so to hope that things will be instantly better when fellas return is clutching at straws.
I think thats a bit unfair, the acquisitions that should have helped from last summer were Alonso, Cisse and Josemi, but all three have been out for an extended period, as well as losing Gerrard for a while. It basically set Liverpool back to last year.

[chipsncheese]

did ye hear the cheeky watford fans singing last night to liverpool fans,
that gerrards goin to chelski

[Rebelred]

I think thats a bit unfair, the acquisitions that should have helped from last summer were Alonso, Cisse and Josemi, but all three have been out for an extended period, as well as losing Gerrard for a while. It basically set Liverpool back to last year.
Josemis been rubbish when he's played though,a pure liability

[Fat Tom]

I think thats a bit unfair, the acquisitions that should have helped from last summer were Alonso, Cisse and Josemi, but all three have been out for an extended period, as well as losing Gerrard for a while. It basically set Liverpool back to last year.

clutching there boy -

some good squad players but how many of em would start for United.
Ye need to improve yer first 11 if ye want to challenge.

[Captain Planet]

Josemis been rubbish when he's played though,a pure liability
i agree. finnan should be playing in his position.

[comred]

i agree. finnan should be playing in his position.

Finnan does play in his position and he was doing so before Josemi got injured.

[Captain Planet]

Finnan does play in his position and he was doing so before Josemi got injured.

wasnt it carragher and josemi on each wing. ah maybe im going mad

[Philby]

The Right back saga

Josemi was playing right back for a good portion of the season (with finnan often filling in @ right wing). Finnan was then dropped for a few games with Josemi playing @ right back. Josemi was going through some iffy form with Finnan about to replace him & then he got injured which allowed Finnan back in. Finnan did very well & cemented his spot in the side but was injured Vs portsmouth (I think). Finnan has since come back from his injury and will be the first choice right back (imho) for the rest of the season barring injury (which is asking a lot given our current injury record)

[comred]

Another injury blow for liverpool, from the offical site.

Liverpool's injury jinx has struck again with the confirmation that Florent Sinama-Pongolle sustained knee ligament damage during last night's Carling Cup victory at Watford.
The young French striker was only on the field for three minutes before being stretchered off with the injury which is likely to result in a lengthy period out of the game.

Pongolle underwent a scan on Merseyside today which revealed a tear to his left anterior cruciate ligament.

He will see a surgeon on Thursday morning, after which the Reds will have a better idea how long he will be out of football for.

The news comes as yet another blow to boss Rafael Benitez who has already had to contend with a crippling injury list during his first season in charge at Anfield.

Pongolle's name can now be added to the list including Xabi Alonso, Milan Baros, Djibril Cisse, Chris Kirkland, Steven Gerrard, Harry Kewell, Vladimir Smicer, Luis Garcia, Antonio Nunez, Steve Finnan and Josemi - all of whom have missed large chunks of the season through various injury problems.

[ho chi feen]

I think thats a bit unfair, the acquisitions that should have helped from last summer were Alonso, Cisse and Josemi, but all three have been out for an extended period, as well as losing Gerrard for a while. It basically set Liverpool back to last year.
Josemi looks to be one of the poorest players I've seen in a Liverpool shirt in a while, which is really saying something, Cissé looks to be nothing more than an over-rated, one dimensional oaf when tested at something resembling the highest level. Big deal.

[Philby]

Josemi looks to be one of the poorest players I've seen in a Liverpool shirt in a while, which is really saying something, Cissé looks to be nothing more than an over-rated, one dimensional oaf when tested at something resembling the highest level. Big deal.
I find this writing off of Cisse that some of you are doing truly staggering. The lad had a decent goal return until his injury, was improving with every game & was looking like developing a real understanding with his suppliers, Gerrard & Alonso. If he is right physically I've no doubt that he will prove all the dectractors wrong.

Ho Chi, I'm suprised @ your attitude regarding Cisse esp as you had this to say not too long ago....

Now, I have no doubt that Cisse is an exceptional forward, and will do very well, but he will need time to adapt- give him that time

[ho chi feen]

I find this writing off of Cisse that some of you are doing truly staggering. The lad had a decent goal return until his injury, was improving with every game & was looking like developing a real understanding with his suppliers, Gerrard & Alonso. If he is right physically I've no doubt that he will prove all the dectractors wrong.

Ho Chi, I'm suprised @ your attitude regarding Cisse esp as you had this to say not too long ago....
Jesus christ Philby man, surely you've been hear long enough to notice a big, fuck-off shint hook when it protrudes through such posts? I'm very dissapointed. ;)

[Philby]

Man-marking at corners didn't seem to work so well at old trafford last night did it?

The truth is neither system is right or wrong. Where you triumph/fail is your implementation of your chosen system. If every player understands the system, keeps his position and challenges for the ball aggressively then the zonal system will work well (see valencia). It also reduces the possibility that a player could slip, be blocked or simply lose his man which can happen quite easily under a man-marking system.

Where it can fall down is where teams crowd specific areas and outnumber/block the defenders - it is up to each defender in the given situation to notice this and act accordingly. You need to knit a pre-defined, well-communicated strategy with a defender's in-built ability to sense danger

Strange the way the ridiculous criticism about Rafa's Zonal marking has disappeared. It was everybody's hobby horse for a fortnight but haven't heard a whisper since.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/images4/jamiecarragher_alons o2_1811.jpg

Also Xabi may well be back for the Champions League Quarter Final 2nd Leg. Although I truly hope he isn't rushed back too soon it would be a big boost to the team to have him back as he has done as well as anyone in the games he has been involved in so far (and was building a great understanding with Gerrard & Garcia).

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N148130050314-1410.htm


RAFA: XABI COULD BE BACK IN APRIL
Paul Rogers 14 March 2005 http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/images3/030904-alonso_120_04.jpg Liverpool fans were today handed a massive boost ahead of Friday's Champions League draw when Rafael Benitez announced that Xabi Alonso could be fit in time for the second leg of the Quarter Finals. The second leg is scheduled to take place during the week commencing April 11 and the Liverpool boss is hoping his midfield playmaker could have already featured for the Reserves before then.

"If everything continues OK, I hope Xabi will be in full training by the last week of March," revealed Benitez. "He will be like a new, very important player for us. Maybe Xabi will be available for the second game of the quarterfinal. He is improving a lot. If he's back training with the rest of the squad by the end of the month, like we hope, he has a good chance.
"It will be good for the team spirit to have him back. Not only will it give the side a lift, it will also make those who are playing work even harder to stay in the team."

[shammy feen]

Oh for the love of God...Nooooooo!!!!
Its back.

[Philby]

My Threads - as good as it gets? ;-)

[STEVIEG]

Alan Green; As big as a prick as it gets?

[Philby]

Why so? A bit outspoken but is a lot more knowledgeable than most.

[shammy feen]

My Threads - as good as it gets? ;-)

Alonso and Gerrard thread- As long as it has to get.

[STEVIEG]

Why so? A bit outspoken but is a lot more knowledgeable than most.


Knowledgeable my arse. One of the most biased cowardly Liverpool fans i have ever had the misfortune to hear. In fact the only Liverpool fan who i have absolute zero respect for. And someone without the balls to admit he's had an anti-Fergie/Keane vendetta for years. Never knew he had a column in the Irish Examiner till this morning.
Besides his Liverpool are great in Europe stuff (i'll leave him off over this, it's ben a hard season and Liverpool deserve to celebrate their good weeks) it was his comparison of United and Arsenals crap results in Europe that was more grating.
While Arsenal's "time will come" (when Alan?) United were finished (funny i thought united were the only English team to win the Champions League) and Fergie must go. Blah blah blah lazy journalism at it's worst what a prick.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

Knowledgeable my arse. One of the most biased cowardly Liverpool fans i have ever had the misfortune to hear. In fact the only Liverpool fan who i have absolute zero respect for. And someone without the balls to admit he's had an anti-Fergie/Keane vendetta for years. Never knew he had a column in the Irish Examiner till this morning.
Besides his Liverpool are great in Europe stuff (i'll leave him off over this, it's ben a hard season and Liverpool deserve to celebrate their good weeks) it was his comparison of United and Arsenals crap results in Europe that was more grating.
While Arsenal's "time will come" (when Alan?) United were finished (funny i thought united were the only English team to win the Champions League) and Fergie must go. Blah blah blah lazy journalism at it's worst what a prick.


He also said Fergie was finished in 98 & 02.

[ho chi feen]

youll find no team can win the champions league. Theres no team has become the "champions league champions" or no team has ever been presented with the champions league cup.

Being pedantic............ ..Utd are the only team in england to have won the european cup since it changed its format and renamed the inital part of the tournament.....Every team wins the european cup once the league stage is over with...... But thats just nit picking..

Shows what an over-rated joke the premier league is. One champions league winner since heysel, and exactly zero world, or european players of the year. As good as it gets? Only through the eyes of Sky.

[homer jay]

the premiership will be shite as long as teams like norwich, wba etc are in it. getting hammered every week like west brom are ain't good, its heading the way the spl did, and look at it now, especially since chelski raised the bar in tearms of trying to compete for the title.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

Shows what an over-rated joke the premier league is. One champions league winner since heysel, and exactly zero world, or european players of the year. As good as it gets? Only through the eyes of Sky.

Didnt Michael Owen win the European Player of the Year in 2001?

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

era leave him off he's ranting.
the premier league is as good as italy, spain and germany.

and as bad

I think the difference between the Premiership & the European leagues is that the small teams on the continent are well organised defensively which makes it hard for the top teams to break them down. In England the lower teams dont have that organisation making it easy for lets say the big 3 to score against them. Now there are exceptions like at Selhurst Park a few weeks ago but its the norm for the big sides to score plenty of goals against smaller teams.

In Europe Rnglish teams must work harder to score & because they are not aclimatised to this like the Italians say it transfers IMO why the English have under achieved in Europe.

[wat_boy]

I think the difference between the Premiership & the European leagues is that the small teams on the continent are well organised defensively which makes it hard for the top teams to break them down. In England the lower teams dont have that organisation making it easy for lets say the big 3 to score against them. Now there are exceptions like at Selhurst Park a few weeks ago but its the norm for the big sides to score plenty of goals against smaller teams.

In Europe Rnglish teams must work harder to score & because they are not aclimatised to this like the Italians say it transfers IMO why the English have under achieved in Europe.

agreed

[Fat Tom]

This argument isn't that strong - look at who United have struggled against this season -

Portsmouth
Palace
Norwich
Blackburn
Fulham

They are strugling to beat the bad teams.

[Captain Planet]

This argument isn't that strong - look at who United have struggled against this season -

Portsmouth
Palace
Norwich
Blackburn
Fulham

They are strugling to beat the bad teams.
thats been liverpools problem with ages. beat the biguns and lose to the shitty teams.

[ho chi feen]

Didnt Michael Owen win the European Player of the Year in 2001?
http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ho chi feen]

era leave him off he's ranting.
the premier league is as good as italy, spain and germany.

and as bad

Doesn't bear out in the respective CL records in the last 15 years.

[ho chi feen]

and of course thats how we judge it.....
Until somebody comes up with a better way.

[Philby]

...thought I'd resurrect this one for the occasion...

Alonso - Me & Steve, as good as it gets (...well not really)

Alonso said: "This season we have lost a lot of key players through injury but now we have almost a complete squad, or as strong as it has been this season, and the manager has many options now.

"We know we will be facing Chelsea with a strong team now. This season I haven't played many games with Stevie apart from before Christmas when we won three games and then I got injured on New Year's Day.

"This season hasn't been great for either of us in terms of injury but now we are both ready and it gives the manager more options"

"What happened in the Carling Cup final and in the league against Chelsea this season has given us great motivation for this semi-final as has that tackle Lampard put in on me at Anfield. I'm going to break that fat chav in two tonight"

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N148639050427-1051.htm

[Sound]

...thought I'd resurrect this one for the occasion...

Alonso - Me & Steve, as good as it gets (...well not really)

Alonso said: "This season we have lost a lot of key players through injury but now we have almost a complete squad, or as strong as it has been this season, and the manager has many options now.

"We know we will be facing Chelsea with a strong team now. This season I haven't played many games with Stevie apart from before Christmas when we won three games and then I got injured on New Year's Day.

"This season hasn't been great for either of us in terms of injury but now we are both ready and it gives the manager more options"

"What happened in the Carling Cup final and in the league against Chelsea this season has given us great motivation for this semi-final as has that tackle Lampard put in on me at Anfield. I'm going to break that fat chav in two tonight"

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N148639050427-1051.htm


Could there be vindication for the longest thread on the sports forum. Get in there Philby lad!

Christ, I'm so nervous. I fucking love football!!!!

[Philby]

I veer between really loving it & really hating it..never indifferent. That's the way to be man!

I've been getting more & more nervious all day - I'll have to start getting drunk soon or I'll never handle it!!

These are the kind of games that Liverpool need to be involved in. Win lose or draw I'll be proud of the players (Traore included) & Rafa the gaffer of getting this far under trying circumstances.

[Teknique]

I've been getting more & more nervious all day -


me too , in no mood for work
no , wait , thats most days but even more today

[Rebelred]

I veer between really loving it & really hating it..never indifferent. That's the way to be man!

I've been getting more & more nervious all day - I'll have to start getting drunk soon or I'll never handle it!!

These are the kind of games that Liverpool need to be involved in. Win lose or draw I'll be proud of the players (Traore included) & Rafa the gaffer of getting this far under trying circumstances.
should be a good game alright, last nights game was very entertaining.Should be a good few goals and can see the pool sneaking an away goal too.

[dotty]

should be a good game alright, last nights game was very entertaining.Should be a good few goals and can see the pool sneaking an away goal too.
an away goal is a possibilty,chelsea have been conceding the odd goal lately!
will robben start?

[Rebelred]

an away goal is a possibilty,chelsea have been conceding the odd goal lately!
will robben start?
Dont know, Jose could be doing what he did in Barca,saying Duff is injured,then throwing him in???
Robben will more than likely feature at some stage,but Duff will start if fit.

[Mr. R.M. Keane]

It's to early to say but there are definate signs that kewell is returning to top form.

Over-statement of the season??

[Philby]

Not an over-statement. At the point I posted that he had strung a few good games together and was involved in many of our goals. The reason his season fell apart was largely down to injuries (whether they be real of in Harry's head). An overstatement would be "Harry looks like he's lost a bit of weight, maybe he can fit in a single aeroplane seat instead of taking up two"

[Sound]

Well said RM Keane! Kewell is not fit to wear the shirt. If he isn't up to scratch by Crimbo swap him for some tracksuits and a gear bag.

[STEVIEG]

Like a baddie in an 80's big budget movie this thread refuses to die!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dotty]

Like a baddie in an 80's big budget movie this thread refuses to die!!!!!!!!!!!!
indeed stevie but by posting on it are we not merely prolonging its existence?

[STEVIEG]

True

































and there i go again!

[Philby]

Admit it lads, you love this thread. Go on, give it 5 stars!!

[STEVIEG]

Just for you man-just don't go posting pictures of Gallas with jiz on his face anymore and we'll be all ahppy!

[ho chi feen]

I veer between really loving it & really hating it..never indifferent. That's the way to be man!

I've been getting more & more nervious all day - I'll have to start getting drunk soon or I'll never handle it!!

These are the kind of games that Liverpool need to be involved in. Win lose or draw I'll be proud of the players (Traore included) & Rafa the gaffer of getting this far under trying circumstances.
Tonight's your lucky night.

You're going to beat them.

[ho chi feen]

Not an over-statement. At the point I posted that he had strung a few good games together and was involved in many of our goals. The reason his season fell apart was largely down to injuries.

That, and the fact that he's a lazy, disinterested sack of shit.

Not fit to lace Nunez's boots, at least he looks like he cares.

[Sound]

That, and the fact that he's a lazy, disinterested sack of shit.

Not fit to lace Nunez's boots, at least he looks like he cares.

Harry would want a good kick in the mysterious groin injury, the work-shy wastrel.

[ho chi feen]

Harry would want a good kick in the mysterious groin injury, the work-shy wastrel.

Please tell me you've got a newsletter.

[wat_boy]

well he must be doing something right cus hes lost a couple of chins, serious tho apparently hes been in spain for the last month or so under going special training
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/don1980/52697758.jpg

[Rebelred]

Admit it lads, you love this thread. Go on, give it 5 stars!!
era fuck it why not, this thread spawned so many other threads and reignited the sports forum,it deserves 5 stars, in your honour Philby

[Langer Dan]

Alonso & Gerrard - as good as it gets?

Man Utd 70
Everton 58
Liverpool 54

clearly not.

[Philby]

Nice...a valid reason to keep my baby on page 1 of the sports forum. Some nerd has pulled together a little spreadsheet analysing the breakdown of our results dependant on who plays between Gerrard & Alonso.

Interesting viewing & as close as you can get to semi-scientific evidence that the partnership has serious potential.

Interesting that we've actually the best points (% of those it was possible to get) total when neither of them are on the pitch. I'd put this largely down the fact that there have been quite a small number of games that neither of them have played in (4 out of a total of total of 55) rather than jumping to the conclusion that they're both pants.

We've 62.96% of possible points when they've both been playing together compared to 50.72% (SG only) and 52.78% (Xabi only).

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/7779/xabistevie3of.jpg

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/7779/xabistevie3of.jpg

[Rebelred]

that nerd has far too much time on his hands.I wonder if he could do one of when Kleberson and Phil Neville have played for united???




*bumps thread*

[ho chi feen]

Nice...a valid reason to keep my baby on page 1 of the sports forum. Some nerd has pulled together a little spreadsheet analysing the breakdown of our results dependant on who plays between Gerrard & Alonso.

Interesting viewing & as close as you can get to semi-scientific evidence that the partnership has serious potential.

Interesting that we've actually the best points (% of those it was possible to get) total when neither of them are on the pitch. I'd put this largely down the fact that there have been quite a small number of games that neither of them have played in (4 out of a total of total of 55) rather than jumping to the conclusion that they're both pants.

We've 62.96% of possible points when they've both been playing together compared to 50.72% (SG only) and 52.78% (Xabi only).

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/7779/xabistevie3of.jpg

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/7779/xabistevie3of.jpg
NERD!

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/images/smilie/new_silly.gif

[ho chi feen]

PS- surely that proves that Xabi is more important to Pool than Stevie?

[Captain Planet]

PS- surely that proves that Xabi is more important to Pool than Stevie?
Not really. Lookin at the games both players played on their own and gerrard played in big games i would nearly have expected us to lose. chelsea, utd. i wouldnt have expected us to get too many points off them(this season). alonso played in games against norwich etc. together they will get better. we cant be relying on one player. at least now they can both share the burden.

[ho chi feen]

we cant be relying on one player. at least now they can both share the burden.

True. But for how long?

[Philby]

Oh dear...



http://img226.echo.cx/img226/2117/gerrardalonso3yv.jpg

[wat_boy]

seen that ynwa, heard a rumor when we bought xabi that he was....er...em....th at picture confirms it

[Philby]

I saw Xabi's missus on the night of the final. She is an absolute vision of beauty. A few years his senior too. Absolute gem of a bird.

[Captain Planet]

seen that ynwa, heard a rumor when we bought xabi that he was....er...em....th at picture confirms it
haha oh dear god.alonso and gerrard...fucking the ass off each other and as good as it gets. i know winning the cup is emotional and all but seriously, get a room lads.

[ho chi feen]

Oh dear...



http://img226.echo.cx/img226/2117/gerrardalonso3yv.jpg

Philby's outlay on image-hosting.... as stingey as it gets?

[shammy feen]

Alonso and Gerrard as good as it gets?

Threads a bit pointless now isnt it?

FIN.

[BagaTaytos]

a heh heh heh....

[Langer Dan]

Gerrard and Alonso as good as it gets?

Evidently not.


heh heh heh.

[ho chi feen]

There'll be CARNAGE when philby sees this latest mockery.

For shame!
































heh heh heh

[ho chi feen]

£35m for a player who a lot of people on this forum have slated over the past season and who has just 2 years left on his contract. as good as it gets?

Wouldn't be the end of the world... if Rafa can get Xabi for 10m, imagine what he could do with 35m+ ?

Every cloud, etc.

[shammy feen]

He's staying at pool now.

The old thread has a reprieve.

[Mr. Monty]

touche!!!!!!

[ho chi feen]

it worries me though when we bid £6m for fuckin crouch. and not too convinced of this fella reina either from what i saw of him on la liga. the fact that we have xabi definitely makes gerrard going a lot easier to accept though

True, true. But most of his disasters have been the cut-price ones: Pelegrino and that bum he took from Real for example. Sure fuck it, we'll have to see.

[KolaKubes]

Alonso & Gerrard will become the most dynamic, powerful and effective central partnership since Vieira & Petit - if we can replicate their success I'll be a happy man. I'd think they match up pretty nicely to the other top teams' pairings:

Arsenal - Vieira & Edu

Chelski - Lampard & Makalele/Smertin

Manyoo - Keane & Miller/DJ DJ/Fletcher

Newcastle - Jenas & Butt


Alonso - "Not only is Benitez a great coach, he is a master of psychology.

"He can make the players become friends and he can help them perform to a higher level. This is how he enabled Valencia to triumph in La Liga.

"I believe under Benitez our work will be excellent. I am convinced that this season the Reds can be considered to win the championship."

Alonso revealed that Real Madrid had also been interested in him but added - "When it came down to a choice between Madrid and Liverpool I chose Liverpool. They are the club that showed the biggest interest in me."


Delusional reference to Real being less attractive a proposition than your dear old 'Pool aside, I predicted you'd beat Chelsea on the grounds that you'd the better players in central midfield and that is where games are won and lost.

The rest of your team is shit though.

[wat_boy]

The rest of your time is shit though.

they were good enough to win us our 5th european cup unlike your lot

[KolaKubes]

they were good enough to win us our 5th european cup unlike your lot

3 of which were from penalty shootouts I might add, fecking Germans!

I am more worried about me typing "time" for "team" though wtf.

[The Muffin Man]

3 of which were from penalty shootouts I might add, fecking Germans!

I am more worried about me typing "time" for "team" though wtf.

5 is 5.

[Philby]

Delusional reference to Real being less attractive a proposition than your dear old 'Pool aside, I predicted you'd beat Chelsea on the grounds that you'd the better players in central midfield and that is where games are won and lost.

The rest of your team is shit though.

I'd imagine he came to liverpool because Rafa showed him that he really wanted him at the club (at that point he may well have been Rafa's choice as Gerrard's replacement) whereas Real were simultaneously courting Vieira who was clearly their first choice. Hardly delusional...

The rest of your team is shit though

I shouldn't rise to the bait but to say that Gerrard/Alonso aside our team is shit is just idiotic.

Shammy - WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

[Philby]

....let the xabi-stevie love-in continue ;-)


XABI WELCOMES STEVIE U-TURN
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/images4/villa_gerrard2_120.j pg Xabi Alonso has fully welcomed Steven Gerrard's decision to commit his future to Liverpool Football Club and admits the mood at Melwood have visibly lifted since yesterday's sensational announcement. Alonso is delighted that his central midfield partner will tomorrow sign a new contract with the Reds, killing off speculation once and for all that the skipper was about to call time on his Anfield career.

The Spanish playmaker revealed he and his team-mates were shell-shocked at the possibility of Gerrard leaving but insists the feel-good factor in the dressing room has now been restored.

"It is great news for everyone in Liverpool," says Xabi. "Steve is everything, a symbol for the team, and although nobody is indispensable we would have started the new campaign on the wrong foot.

"Gerrard is wanted by all and I do not believe that it was a question of money for all those involved. In the year I have been at Liverpool I have come to understand what is expected, in particular in the league.

"These last few days the team did not train with the same joy, but now I have noticed the spirit is back."


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N149267050707-0922.htm

[POL]

....let the xabi-stevie love-in continue ;-)


XABI WELCOMES STEVIE U-TURN
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/images4/villa_gerrard2_120.j pg Xabi Alonso has fully welcomed Steven Gerrard's decision to commit his future to Liverpool Football Club and admits the mood at Melwood have visibly lifted since yesterday's sensational announcement. Alonso is delighted that his central midfield partner will tomorrow sign a new contract with the Reds, killing off speculation once and for all that the skipper was about to call time on his Anfield career.

The Spanish playmaker revealed he and his team-mates were shell-shocked at the possibility of Gerrard leaving but insists the feel-good factor in the dressing room has now been restored.

"It is great news for everyone in Liverpool," says Xabi. "Steve is everything, a symbol for the team, and although nobody is indispensable we would have started the new campaign on the wrong foot.

"Gerrard is wanted by all and I do not believe that it was a question of money for all those involved. In the year I have been at Liverpool I have come to understand what is expected, in particular in the league.

"These last few days the team did not train with the same joy, but now I have noticed the spirit is back."


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N149267050707-0922.htm

i hate these bullshit statements, what the fuck else would he say? "ah we are all pissed off he is staying"

[nicewanfeen]

3 of which were from penalty shootouts I might add, fecking Germans!

I am more worried about me typing "time" for "team" though wtf.

No they werent
84 and 05 were won pens, 77/78/81 were not. 5 is such a magical number, remember those history channel jibes.

[Langer Dan]

they were good enough to win us our 5th european cup unlike your lot


i prefer 15 .

Still hate Stevie?

WUM.

[nicewanfeen]

i prefer 15 .

Still hate Stevie?

WUM.

Hah?

[ho chi feen]

Shammy - WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!


Sit down, I say, sit down!

[KolaKubes]

I'd imagine he came to liverpool because Rafa showed him that he really wanted him at the club (at that point he may well have been Rafa's choice as Gerrard's replacement) whereas Real were simultaneously courting Vieira who was clearly their first choice. Hardly delusional...



I shouldn't rise to the bait but to say that Gerrard/Alonso aside our team is shit is just idiotic.

Shammy - WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

I watched loads of ye this year, too much in fact. Ye were a totally different side in the knockout stages of the Cl but in a very Greece-2004 manner. Anyway, I don't know what you're arguing about boy, every Liverpool fan I know spent the whole year giving out about Luis Garcia, Traore, Kewell, etc etc and ye were bloody awful throughout the Premiership season - including one of the biggest pastings I've ever seen ye get off us at Old Trafford, even if the scoreline didn't reflect it in fairness.

[Sound]

I watched loads of ye this year, too much in fact. Ye were a totally different side in the knockout stages of the Cl but in a very Greece-2004 manner. Anyway, I don't know what you're arguing about boy, every Liverpool fan I know spent the whole year giving out about Luis Garcia, Traore, Kewell, etc etc and ye were bloody awful throughout the Premiership season - including one of the biggest pastings I've ever seen ye get off us at Old Trafford, even if the scoreline didn't reflect it in fairness.

Anyone who gave out about Luis Garcia hasn't a fucking clue what they are talking about.

[wat_boy]

I watched loads of ye this year, too much in fact. Ye were a totally different side in the knockout stages of the Cl but in a very Greece-2004 manner. Anyway, I don't know what you're arguing about boy, every Liverpool fan I know spent the whole year giving out about Luis Garcia, Traore, Kewell, etc etc and ye were bloody awful throughout the Premiership season - including one of the biggest pastings I've ever seen ye get off us at Old Trafford, even if the scoreline didn't reflect it in fairness.

your on the board 2 fucking mins and nearly every one of your posts seems to be a rant against liverpool, you bitter man

[Captain Planet]

every Liverpool fan I know spent the whole year giving out about Luis Garcia, Traore, Kewell, etc etc

garcia was shite at the start. he gradually got better. traore is just a lovable rogue. kewell can go fuck himself.

[Langer Dan]

your on the board 2 fucking mins and nearly every one of your posts seems to be a rant against liverpool, you bitter man

as opposed to half your posts being rants against Steven Gerrard??

Twat.

[KolaKubes]

Anyone who gave out about Luis Garcia hasn't a fucking clue what they are talking about.

Which is what I told them. In fairness, brother aside, I know some unusually fucking stupid 'Pool fans.

[wat_boy]

as opposed to half your posts being rants against Steven Gerrard??

Twat.

shut your mouth ya spastic, if i ever met ya i'd drop ya in two fucking seconds,
i'm in the beer garden after every city match, over by the pool table

[KolaKubes]

shut your mouth ya spastic, if i ever met ya i'd drop ya in two fucking seconds,
i'm in the beer garden after every city match, over by the pool table

You cartoon. :D

[ho chi feen]

shut your mouth ya spastic, if i ever met ya i'd drop ya in two fucking seconds,
i'm in the beer garden after every city match, over by the pool table

I'll say hi to ya next time I'm along at the cross (as long as ya don't dawk me one)!

[KolaKubes]

koalalube is langer tom

Based on what? The fact that I find the whole angry Terence the Hairdresser routine cringeworthy? I'm filing away some of you "characters" to give me a bit more objectivity the next time I'm defending Cork people - fucking embarrassment to the place.

[Captain Planet]

bumpety bump

[Philby]

Is Alan Hansen taking the piss out of me? :-)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40670000/jpg/_40670704_hansen_ala n_66x66.jpg (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm) http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif Alan Hansen's column (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm)

"Lampard and Gerrard are as good as it gets in midfield"



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm

[STEVIEG]

Heh heh
Are you Alan Hansen more to the point!

[EDDIEB]

Hansen - you'll win now't with kids !

Tosser.

[Rebelred]

Is Alan Hansen taking the piss out of me? :-)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40670000/jpg/_40670704_hansen_ala n_66x66.jpg (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm) http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif Alan Hansen's column (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm)

"Lampard and Gerrard are as good as it gets in midfield"



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4482672.stm
hehehe, scotlands no.1 england fan

[Philby]

La Liga Defensive Statistics (while Benitez coached Valencia)

2001-2002

Fewest Goals Conceded: 27 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.71 Valencia
Most Clean Sheets: 17 Valencia

2002-2003

Fewest Goals Conceded: 35 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.92 Valencia


2003-2004

Fewest Goals Conceded: 27 Valencia
Lowest Goals Conceded Average: 0.71 Valencia
Most Clean Sheets: 20 Valencia

I'd sit back and think a little bit more about your inane comments about Benitez's defensive strategy. The level of consistent top-notch defending he got from his Valencia players was amazing (granted he inherited a defensively strong side from Cuper) so I'd hold back on criticising Rafa just yet....

Man-marking at corners didn't seem to work so well at old trafford last night did it?

The truth is neither system is right or wrong. Where you triumph/fail is your implementation of your chosen system. If every player understands the system, keeps his position and challenges for the ball aggressively then the zonal system will work well (see valencia). It also reduces the possibility that a player could slip, be blocked or simply lose his man which can happen quite easily under a man-marking system.

Where it can fall down is where teams crowd specific areas and outnumber/block the defenders - it is up to each defender in the given situation to notice this and act accordingly. You need to knit a pre-defined, well-communicated strategy with a defender's in-built ability to sense danger.


You don't hear much bleating on about the failings of Rafa's zonal marking system these days eh....*



* - any excuse to get this thread back in action :-)

[KolaKubes]

You don't hear much bleating on about the failings of Rafa's zonal marking system these days eh....*



* - any excuse to get this thread back in action :-)

Aside from yourselves and Chelsea being in a serious tete a tete to see if ye can successfully turn the population of Britain and Ireland off football.

[Del]

Aside from yourselves and Chelsea being in a serious tete a tete to see if ye can successfully turn the population of Britain and Ireland off football.

ha ha

I like it!

[Langer Dan]

Aside from yourselves and Chelsea being in a serious tete a tete to see if ye can successfully turn the population of Britain and Ireland off football.

harsh but fair

[Philby]

Aside from yourselves and Chelsea being in a serious tete a tete to see if ye can successfully turn the population of Britain and Ireland off football.

Liverpool are playing great football these days lad. Loads of movement, great passing and above all it's effective. It shows how worried people are about their progress that they are resigned to lame criticism of their playing style because there's nothing else they can criticise. They are a team undoubtedly on the rise and led by a top-class manager.

[KolaKubes]

Liverpool are playing great football these days lad. Loads of movement, great passing and above all it's effective. It shows how worried people are about their progress that they are resigned to lame criticism of their playing style because there's nothing else they can criticise. They are a team undoubtedly on the rise and led by a top-class manager.

I'm not in the slightest bit worried about the "best team in Europe", you can quote this back at me in May if you win the league [snigger].

[Philby]

Chelsea are head and shoulders above the rest of the league, I don't expect Liverpool to win the league this year but they are steadily improving under Benitez and are very much in the race for second place. I can guarantee that Ferguson & Wenger are very much concerned about the progress being made by the european champions and consider then very much rivals for the right to be Chelsea's b1tch.

[KolaKubes]

Chelsea are head and shoulders above the rest of the league, I don't expect Liverpool to win the league this year but they are steadily improving under Benitez and are very much in the race for second place. I can guarantee that Ferguson & Wenger are very much concerned about the progress being made by the european champions and consider then very much rivals for the right to be Chelsea's b1tch.

Unlike Arsenal and Utd, Liverpool aren't bedding in a load of new young players and are a very stable and experienced team. It's proved a bit much for Arsenal to overcome (granted, apart from their progress through a facile CL group) but I still fancy Utd have too much to finish behind a Pool side with so many ordinary players.

[Philby]

I don't buy that argument, the Liverpool side has been in a far greater state of flux in recent seasons than United's. Reina, Alonso, Sissoko, Garcia & Crouch are all relatively recent signings at Liverpool and are all regular starters. Granted Arsenal have overhauled their side a fair bit in recent times and are feeling the effects (esp. the loss of Vieira).

If United finish ahead of Liverpool this year it will be as a result of them not having the distraction of European football as much as anything else. Fergie is under massive pressure to save face in his final season as united manager (imho) and will be absolutely gutted if he leaves United where he found them (looking upwards at the league at Liverpool)

Ordinary players - Fortune, Fletcher, O'Shea, JS Park, Smith...both sides are carrying some average players. fortunately for Liverpool they don't tend to make our first choice 11.

[KolaKubes]

Ordinary players - Fortune, Fletcher, O'Shea, JS Park, Smith...both sides are carrying some average players. fortunately for Liverpool they don't tend to make our first choice 11.

Any of O'Shea, Park JS, Smith would get in the Liverpool first team. Yet another Liverpool fan labouring under the delusion that the Lottery win in Istanbul (though ye fought for and helped make yer own luck in the competition as a whole) qualifies ye as the best side in Europe. Ye weren't even the best side in yer city last year and haven't improved particularly this year chum.

[wat_boy]

o'shea,park and smith, give me a break biy! 7 straight premiership wins + clean sheets, half way through the season and chelsea the only team to score at anfield in the premiership and we've lost once away from from home unlike like last season when we lost close to 10 games away from home, not much of an improvement like

[Philby]

Any of O'Shea, Park JS, Smith would get in the Liverpool first team.

No chance.

O'Shea - no matter where you want to play this underachieving block of sh1t he's nowhere near the quality that liverpool have (Left Back - Riise is better, Centre-Half - Carra & Sami are better, Defensive Centre-Mid - Hamann, Sissoko streets ahead)

Smith - The lad is blatantly not going to be a centre-midfielder of any calibre. Hamann & Sissoko (at only 20 yrs old) are streets ahead

Park JS - Came with a good reputation but I've seen little sign of his quality since he joined united. Garcia scores and creates so much more than this lad.

Yet another Liverpool fan labouring under the delusion that the Lottery win in Istanbul (though ye fought for and helped make yer own luck in the competition as a whole) qualifies ye as the best side in Europe.

The team who win the European Cup are the team who played best across the season in European competition. That is the only way of objectively rating who was "the best". Suddenly this conveniently goes out the window when liverpool win it. On paper we didn't have the best side but we beat the top sides in England in Italy to get to the final and put in a mammoth performance in Istanbul.

Ye weren't even the best side in yer city last year and haven't improved particularly this year chum.

Our European run, massive injury problems and a manager still getting used to be prem. were significant barriers to our progress in the league last year and hats off to Everton they massively overachieved and deserved 4th place. I think their progress in the CL and the league this year is a good indicator of the gulf in quality between the two sides in the city.

I think we've improved massively this year to be honest lad. Sailed through top of a tough CL group, in a position to go 2nd in the league (if we win our two games in hand) and look decidedly unlikely to concede in any game. If you don't count that as improvement I'm waiting patiently for the time when we have actually improved (in your eyes)...

[ho chi feen]

No chance.

O'Shea - no matter where you want to play this underachieving block of sh1t he's nowhere near the quality that liverpool have (Left Back - Riise is better, Centre-Half - Carra & Sami are better, Defensive Centre-Mid - Hamann, Sissoko streets ahead)

Smith - The lad is blatantly not going to be a centre-midfielder of any calibre. Hamann & Sissoko (at only 20 yrs old) are streets ahead

Park JS - Came with a good reputation but I've seen little sign of his quality since he joined united. Garcia scores and creates so much more than this lad.



The team who win the European Cup are the team who played best across the season in European competition. That is the only way of objectively rating who was "the best". Suddenly this conveniently goes out the window when liverpool win it. On paper we didn't have the best side but we beat the top sides in England in Italy to get to the final and put in a mammoth performance in Istanbul.



Our European run, massive injury problems and a manager still getting used to be prem. were significant barriers to our progress in the league last year and hats off to Everton they massively overachieved and deserved 4th place. I think their progress in the CL and the league this year is a good indicator of the gulf in quality between the two sides in the city.

I think we've improved massively this year to be honest lad. Sailed through top of a tough CL group, in a position to go 2nd in the league (if we win our two games in hand) and look decidedly unlikely to concede in any game. If you don't count that as improvement I'm waiting patiently for the time when we have actually improved (in your eyes)...


Agree with most of the above, although I reckon Smith is the kind of forward who'd serve Rafa well... not so much for the height, but for his workrate.

[KolaKubes]

No chance.

O'Shea - no matter where you want to play this underachieving block of sh1t he's nowhere near the quality that liverpool have (Left Back - Riise is better, Centre-Half - Carra & Sami are better, Defensive Centre-Mid - Hamann, Sissoko streets ahead)

Smith - The lad is blatantly not going to be a centre-midfielder of any calibre. Hamann & Sissoko (at only 20 yrs old) are streets ahead

Park JS - Came with a good reputation but I've seen little sign of his quality since he joined united. Garcia scores and creates so much more than this lad.



The team who win the European Cup are the team who played best across the season in European competition. That is the only way of objectively rating who was "the best". Suddenly this conveniently goes out the window when liverpool win it. On paper we didn't have the best side but we beat the top sides in England in Italy to get to the final and put in a mammoth performance in Istanbul.



Our European run, massive injury problems and a manager still getting used to be prem. were significant barriers to our progress in the league last year and hats off to Everton they massively overachieved and deserved 4th place. I think their progress in the CL and the league this year is a good indicator of the gulf in quality between the two sides in the city.

I think we've improved massively this year to be honest lad. Sailed through top of a tough CL group, in a position to go 2nd in the league (if we win our two games in hand) and look decidedly unlikely to concede in any game. If you don't count that as improvement I'm waiting patiently for the time when we have actually improved (in your eyes)...


I was merely pointing out that three of the players you picked on from the Utd side as mediocre would play a hell of a lot of football for Liverpool. Let's not forget that Smith was a striker and the Park would be up against Sinama-Pongolle, Kewell and Luis Garcia (the latter probably the most irritating footballer in the Premiership so wasteful is he of possession). More to the point, there's no more than three Liverpool players I'd actually take to improve the Utd squad, Carragher, Alonso and Gerrard. That's how highly I rate the European Champions. Fair fucks for pulling it off but I can't help thinking the last two seasons have seen some of the poorest quality champions ever to have their name etched on the trophy.

[Sound]

I was merely pointing out that three of the players you picked on from the Utd side as mediocre would play a hell of a lot of football for Liverpool. Let's not forget that Smith was a striker and the Park would be up against Sinama-Pongolle, Kewell and Luis Garcia (the latter probably the most irritating footballer in the Premiership so wasteful is he of possession). More to the point, there's no more than three Liverpool players I'd actually take to improve the Utd squad, Carragher, Alonso and Gerrard. That's how highly I rate the European Champions. Fair fucks for pulling it off but I can't help thinking the last two seasons have seen some of the poorest quality champions ever to have their name etched on the trophy.

It has to be pointed out that your posts are deteriorating in quality by the day. Me, and the decent posters on here, pride themselves in being able to take off the red-tinted specs and call a spade a spade. You have to be objective at least some of the time. Yet your ranting has gotten worse and more myopic as time passes. All this guff about being the most boring team or having an ordinary squad or, even, having the worst bloody hairstyles is just fucking nonsense.

I dont want to go through the minutae of the posts above but If I dont things wont change. For instance, if you cant see how Riise, Finnan, Sissoko, or Garcia wouldn't improve the Utd 22 then you are either a WUM or your opinion is just not worth considering. This is exactly like Fat Tom's love affair with Rio over Campbell, Terry, Carra etc in that, no matter what team you follow, some things in football are indisputable facts. If you cant see these facts then that is when your objectivity has to be questioned. As just one example, I'm a Liverpool fan and as the song goes, Gary Neville hates me. I find him to be an objectionable scrote. But, as a footie fan, I also know that he would improve the Liverpool squad whether I think he is a prick or not.

And that is the whole point. Being able to see that is what adds to the forum. Otherwise it'd turn into a sub Redissue, peurile load of cock.

[KolaKubes]

It has to be pointed out that your posts are deteriorating in quality by the day. Me, and the decent posters on here, pride themselves in being able to take off the red-tinted specs and call a spade a spade. You have to be objective at least some of the time. Yet your ranting has gotten worse and more myopic as time passes. All this guff about being the most boring team or having an ordinary squad or, even, having the worst bloody hairstyles is just fucking nonsense.

I dont want to go through the minutae of the posts above but If I dont things wont change. For instance, if you cant see how Riise, Finnan, Sissoko, or Garcia wouldn't improve the Utd 22 then you are either a WUM or your opinion is just not worth considering. This is exactly like Fat Tom's love affair with Rio over Campbell, Terry, Carra etc in that, no matter what team you follow, some things in football are indisputable facts. If you cant see these facts then that is when your objectivity has to be questioned. As just one example, I'm a Liverpool fan and as the song goes, Gary Neville hates me. I find him to be an objectionable scrote. But, as a footie fan, I also know that he would improve the Liverpool squad whether I think he is a prick or not.

And that is the whole point. Being able to see that is what adds to the forum. Otherwise it'd turn into a sub Redissue, peurile load of cock.

Dearey me, and I've been trying to be polite. Listen boy, I'm a Utd fan, I'm not on here to score points off fans of other teams with snivelling platitudes about my secret grá for Thierry Henry or John Terry. There's the very odd issue in football which gains universal approval from all football fans (e.g. Best), the rest of the time we disagree. There's no need for rivalries between sets of fans to be bitter or nasty, I don't go out of my way to simply wind people up (well, in general) but I wouldn't have it any other way.

As for the specific (rather futile) debate over how many Pool players would get in the Utd side, I'd stick with my initial assessment, while others like Sissoko, Finnan or Reina would strengthen Utd's squad depth, they're no more valuable than Scholes (even Smith), Neville, Bardsley or Van Der Sar, so why would we take them?