Brian Linehan has pancreatic cancer..

[rubbish mouth breath]

on TV3 news there.

[Pontipine]

That is sad news.Pancreatic cancer is lethal.

[jbmmeidol]

TV3 news is like tabloid telly they could have kept it a low key news story like RTE did espescially at this time of the year.

[delzer]

Sad news for the family. I play football with his son very quiet and a very nice guy. My taughts are with him.

[Haro]

I bet there's going to be the subtext of "Ah sure the man's dying, go easy on his shitty decisions".

[Beaty]

Fuck, all jokes aside, he's fucked....

That's like liver cancer. RIP

S

[diar2me]

I bet there's going to be the subtext of "Ah sure the man's dying, go easy on his shitty decisions".

Are you for real?

He is probably the most competent guy in that party and in all fairness man, he has cancer, could you leave it off na?

[jams]

TV3 is the sun's irish outlet

[Mong The Merciless]

Given the fact we are up shit creek with half a paddle this news is indeed news and warrants discussion. He is the most important man in the country bar none.

[KD Langer]

Are you for real?

He is probably the most competent guy in that party and in all fairness man, he has cancer, could you leave it off na?

agreed. ffs some things are more important than the shaggn economy.

[Pontipine]

agreed. ffs some things are more important than the shaggn economy.

While i would wish no man ill health i would not pull a guy for posting that he has no time for Mr Leninhan.After what this government has done and the budget they have delivered recently i have no doubt some people hate the man and could not care less about his health.

[Haro]

Yeah but a lot of Irish people are soulless pieces of shit who think sucking up to a dying man makes them good people. It makes me sick and feel bad towards those who are suffering from such an illness and are not on friendly terms with the man.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Yeah but a lot of Irish people are soulless pieces of shit who think sucking up to a dying man makes them good people. It makes me sick and feel bad towards those who are suffering from such an illness and are not on friendly terms with the man.

Have a bit of class Haro.

He wasn't around during the greedy FF years and wasn't in bed with any developers.

He was the only person in this government who could be accused of doing a competent job.

There's nothing as soulless as having no empathy or compassion for others.

[rubbish mouth breath]

the man has a malignant tumor. doubt he'll last long..

[Pontipine]

the man has a malignant tumor. doubt he'll last long..

My very close friends mother who seemed fairly healthy got a bit of a turn one morning at home a year or two back.She was only in her 50's.She had tests done and was diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer.It is deadly right there in the centre of your body.The poor misfortune lasted around 3 months.

[bigdaddycan]

very sad, condsidering hes the only one doing any bito good in that party, he wont last long sadly, look at patrick swayze, he had the same.....

sad times were in

@ those WUMs, a bito compassion wudn't go astray, ya big deal the country is fucked but money we can get back, our health is the main thing...

[delzer]

As i have said earlier. I know his son hes a great guy. His father is extremely ill. He will more than likely die. A family will lose its father. This is the mort important fact imo

[Jim Comic]

http://www.timesonline.co.u k/tol/news/world/ireland/article6968449.ece

[Jim Comic]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-anger-at-tv3-intrusion-into-lenihans-serious-illness-1990191.html

[KD Langer]

As i have said earlier. I know his son hes a great guy. His father is extremely ill. He will more than likely die. A family will lose its father. This is the mort important fact imo

agreed delzer.i'm no fan of FF, But i can sympathise with anyone who gets cancer. and if that makes me a soulless whatever ya man above said then so be it.

[poulgorm]

Very cruel, to see someone struck down in their prime. Cancer of the pancreas is very bad news indeed.

This will be a loss for the country as well as his family.

He had really mastered his brief, after a shaky start. Showed signs of true leadership. One of the few inspired appointments by Cowen.

I hope that clown of an economist / journalist (can't think of his name) who was so disrespectful in his book (the kitchen reference) is feeling pleased with himself now.

No chance of an apology, I suppose. Thought not.

[learning irish]

i think there should be a public boycott of tv3.and no member of dail eireann should again show their face on the scum channel. even the tabloids came together and held off on the story.

and tv3 also have the cheek to sue rte(us the taxpayer) for a publishing mistake in the rte guide after years of free advertising in the fecking thing.

[willcork123]

My very close friends mother who seemed fairly healthy got a bit of a turn one morning at home a year or two back.She was only in her 50's.She had tests done and was diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer.It is deadly right there in the centre of your body.The poor misfortune lasted around 3 months.



my own mother had it she lasted 11 weeks tis nasty shit alright

[Pontipine]

my own mother had it she lasted 11 weeks tis nasty shit alright

Very sorry to hear that..

[willcork123]

Very sorry to hear that..

cheers bud

[Haro]

Have a bit of class Haro.

He wasn't around during the greedy FF years and wasn't in bed with any developers.

He was the only person in this government who could be accused of doing a competent job.

There's nothing as soulless as having no empathy or compassion for others.

Given some of the comments you've made directed at me in the past I would not call you captain empathy. I have plenty of empathy and compassion and almost certainly far more than you. Apparently people cannot distinguish between genuine empathy and sympathy that is commanded of them by the media and public consensus. That is fake bullshit and nobody should be getting pissy at anyone for buying into it.

I honestly do not feel anything special for this man given the countless others suffering from this disease in a worse position than he is. Why should I? It's the "Jade" bullshit all over again.

Irish people are gullible shits so it's not surprising you're buying into it, just like you're buying into the idea that Lenihan is somehow competent at his job. That's what's fucking disgusting, not someone who won't buy into false sympathy - it's the false sympathy itself that is abhorrant. The Irish people continue to make me sick. Lenihan barely has a background in economics and has not done much to earn him the title of "Competent". He has your sympathy he made decisions that you agree with most likely out of maliciousness towards the public sector.

There is no honesty in this. And it makes me angry for the people who are suffering from this disease and have been hit hard by the budget, and they do exist. False sympathy is a bad thing because we learn to respond to everything with a false front that way.

[an liathroid beag]

Irrespective of party politics, he is an extremely talented politican, which is rare enough in our system, If any thing should happen to him it would be a loss to the process of the economic recovery of this country.

[Haro]

@ those WUMs, a bito compassion wudn't go astray, ya big deal the country is fucked but money we can get back, our health is the main thing...

The health of one man is unlikely to be worth than entire country.

My mum works in the hospital back in Ennis, and they shut down the A&E, since Limerick is apparently a centre for excellence. The first person died in the ambulence on the way to Limerick a couple of weeks later.

I don't doubt there's a problem with money, but here is a case in which the lives of people were apparently not more important the economy. This is why I'm so angry and why I refuse to believe the people in this thread are capable of genuine sympathy.

As far as I can see people should not die before these overpaid politicians dip into their own pockets. If they could have donated even a bit towards keeping this A&E open, people would have lived. It is impossible to optimise money everywhere, you would go nuts, but it is pretty clear to me that this is somewhere where it could have been easily rectified.

Cutbacks are lazy, easy decisions when much deeper restructuring needs to happen. A blind person takes a hit, but the bankers who caused the mess get a bonus. Is this fucking fair? The only grounds people have for thinking he's competent is because they wanted to see things taken out on the public sector, or are the typical political swots that voted Fianna Fail in again to begin with. Ah sure Bertie's grand isn't he?

I do not think Brian Lenihan is a good or competent person, and I'm sick of people saying "keep politics out of this" when they themselves are in love with the man down to their own malice and stupidity. I absolutely would not wish such a horrid condition on anyone, but Brian Lenihan is not the only man dying a painful death in the world, nor is he the only one who can balance a budget.

[fella_]

Lenihan barely has a background in economics and has not done much to earn him the title of "Competent".

You're wrong- he is competent and doing a good job. By his actions he's managed to keep some chance that the country will stay solvent.

[Haro]

You're wrong- he is competent and doing a good job. By his actions he's managed to keep some chance that the country will stay solvent.

Yes, and I should trust a guy called fella_ on a forum filled with eejits on his word, obviously.

Care to have something to back that up? Otherwise we'll just default to the position of Irish Politican = Incompetent/corrupt.

[Funky Munky]

The health of one man is unlikely to be worth than entire country.

My mum works in the hospital back in Ennis, and they shut down the A&E, since Limerick is apparently a centre for excellence. The first person died in the ambulence on the way to Limerick a couple of weeks later.

I don't doubt there's a problem with money, but here is a case in which the lives of people were apparently not more important the economy. This is why I'm so angry and why I refuse to believe the people in this thread are capable of genuine sympathy.

As far as I can see people should not die before these overpaid politicians dip into their own pockets. If they could have donated even a bit towards keeping this A&E open, people would have lived. It is impossible to optimise money everywhere, you would go nuts, but it is pretty clear to me that this is somewhere where it could have been easily rectified.

Cutbacks are lazy, easy decisions when much deeper restructuring needs to happen. A blind person takes a hit, but the bankers who caused the mess get a bonus. Is this fucking fair? The only grounds people have for thinking he's competent is because they wanted to see things taken out on the public sector, or are the typical political swots that voted Fianna Fail in again to begin with. Ah sure Bertie's grand isn't he?

I do not think Brian Lenihan is a good or competent person, and I'm sick of people saying "keep politics out of this" when they themselves are in love with the man down to their own malice and stupidity. I absolutely would not wish such a horrid condition on anyone, but Brian Lenihan is not the only man dying a painful death in the world, nor is he the only one who can balance a budget.


Great post... All of it....

[Haro]

Thanks :)

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Given some of the comments you've made directed at me in the past I would not call you captain empathy. I have plenty of empathy and compassion and almost certainly far more than you. Apparently people cannot distinguish between genuine empathy and sympathy that is commanded of them by the media and public consensus. That is fake bullshit and nobody should be getting pissy at anyone for buying into it.

I honestly do not feel anything special for this man given the countless others suffering from this disease in a worse position than he is. Why should I? It's the "Jade" bullshit all over again.

Irish people are gullible shits so it's not surprising you're buying into it, just like you're buying into the idea that Lenihan is somehow competent at his job. That's what's fucking disgusting, not someone who won't buy into false sympathy - it's the false sympathy itself that is abhorrant. The Irish people continue to make me sick. Lenihan barely has a background in economics and has not done much to earn him the title of "Competent". He has your sympathy he made decisions that you agree with most likely out of maliciousness towards the public sector.

There is no honesty in this. And it makes me angry for the people who are suffering from this disease and have been hit hard by the budget, and they do exist. False sympathy is a bad thing because we learn to respond to everything with a false front that way.

Haro, he is a man with an awful disease that will kill him. I've replied to your minor insults in the past with minor insults, don't try to compare the two.

People have been saying that he's the only one doing a competent job in the government before his disease came to light. I despise this government as much as anyone but that doesn't mean I'm going to take any pleasure in this. He doesn't deserve this just because he's a politician. I sympathise with him as much as I would anyone else with the disease, who he is makes no difference to me. It's a truly viscous form of cancer.

Stop making generalisations.

[diar2me]

Given some of the comments you've made directed at me in the past I would not call you captain empathy. I have plenty of empathy and compassion and almost certainly far more than you. Apparently people cannot distinguish between genuine empathy and sympathy that is commanded of them by the media and public consensus. That is fake bullshit and nobody should be getting pissy at anyone for buying into it.

I honestly do not feel anything special for this man given the countless others suffering from this disease in a worse position than he is. Why should I? It's the "Jade" bullshit all over again.

Irish people are gullible shits so it's not surprising you're buying into it, just like you're buying into the idea that Lenihan is somehow competent at his job. That's what's fucking disgusting, not someone who won't buy into false sympathy - it's the false sympathy itself that is abhorrant. The Irish people continue to make me sick. Lenihan barely has a background in economics and has not done much to earn him the title of "Competent". He has your sympathy he made decisions that you agree with most likely out of maliciousness towards the public sector.

There is no honesty in this. And it makes me angry for the people who are suffering from this disease and have been hit hard by the budget, and they do exist. False sympathy is a bad thing because we learn to respond to everything with a false front that way.

Never in my entire life have I ever heard such cruel and nonsensical rubbish. If you cannot seperate a persons role in work with the actual person themselves I have pity on you! Please do not compare my compassion for AN IRISH man, who happens to be OUR finance minister in one of the worst economic times ever to fall upon our state with Jade fucking Goody! Not that you would understand but the man bears no responsibility for any of the crisis we find ourselves in and indeed is THE MOST honourable member of FF and, in the situation we are in, has done a good job and has even admitted he has learned from his mistakes showing that he is just human and honest. Get a grip you heartless fucker!

[Langer Dan]

Earra politics have no bearing on something like this.

The guy is fucked and he and his family have my sympathy.
Haro you sound like a right prick tbh.

[Corcaigh32]

I am amazed the thread is still here. Of what possible value it is adding to the forum I do not know. In the unlikely but conceivable event that someone belonging to the man has happened upon it - I shudder to think of the impression they are getting from it. At a fundamental level - he is a human being who probably has a very short time left. Dear God in heaven, some of the comments here beggar belief.

The fact he is Minister for Finance is irrelevant essentially. It could be any one of us at any time unfortunately. A bit of decency, decorum and compassion wouldn't go astray at all.

[Mick Lyons]

Strikes me as being a decent man trying his best to do a tough job.
I hope there is some way he can come through it.

[diar2me]

I am amazed the thread is still here. Of what possible value it is adding to the forum I do not know. In the unlikely but conceivable event that someone belonging to the man has happened upon it - I shudder to think of the impression they are getting from it. At a fundamental level - he is a human being who probably has a very short time left. Dear God in heaven, some of the comments here beggar belief.

The fact he is Minister for Finance is irrelevant essentially. It could be any one of us at any time unfortunately. A bit of decency, decorum and compassion wouldn't go astray at all.

Exactly!

[fella_]

Never in my entire life have I ever heard such cruel and nonsensical rubbish. If you cannot seperate a persons role in work with the actual person themselves I have pity on you! Please do not compare my compassion for AN IRISH man, who happens to be OUR finance minister in one of the worst economic times ever to fall upon our state with Jade fucking Goody! Not that you would understand but the man bears no responsibility for any of the crisis we find ourselves in and indeed is THE MOST honourable member of FF and, in the situation we are in, has done a good job and has even admitted he has learned from his mistakes showing that he is just human and honest. Get a grip you heartless fucker!

+1

I was trying not to rise to this bitter wum. he's clearly frustrated and carries a lot of baggage.

[fella_]

I am amazed the thread is still here. Of what possible value it is adding to the forum I do not know. In the unlikely but conceivable event that someone belonging to the man has happened upon it - I shudder to think of the impression they are getting from it. At a fundamental level - he is a human being who probably has a very short time left. Dear God in heaven, some of the comments here beggar belief.

The fact he is Minister for Finance is irrelevant essentially. It could be any one of us at any time unfortunately. A bit of decency, decorum and compassion wouldn't go astray at all.

yeah- someone needs to shut Haro up. How offensive do you need to be to get banned around here?

[Beaty]

Jesus.

Will some fucking Mod close this thread?

S

[Haro]

The fact he is Minister for Finance is irrelevant essentially. It could be any one of us at any time unfortunately. A bit of decency, decorum and compassion wouldn't go astray at all.

Actually, this is the crux of the issue - if he wasn't Minister for Finance, would this thread exist?

No. So you're all unbelievably full of shit and false empathy.

[Haro]

Jesus.

Will some fucking Mod close this thread?

S

No mods were around in the threads where people were tearing into public servants or people like me on disability. Why should they be here?

[fella_]

a lot of Irish people are soulless pieces of shit who think sucking up to a dying man makes them good people. .

Irish people are gullible shits so it's not surprising you're buying into it, just like you're buying into the idea that Lenihan is somehow competent at his job

The Irish people continue to make me sick



Bile.

[Beaty]

In Ireland, you're a langer - until the day you die.

S

[Haro]

Haro, he is a man with an awful disease that will kill him. I've replied to your minor insults in the past with minor insults, don't try to compare the two.

Actually, it was a bad idea comparing you and others being utter insensitive cunts with me refusing to lie about how much sympathy I feel for someone I've never met.

People have been saying that he's the only one doing a competent job in the government before his disease came to light.

Yes, for the same reasons people are offering their sympathy in the thread now - they're eejits. I've seen the budget threads on this forum and boards.ie and they're a shocking example of what mindless, soulless entities most Irish people seem to be at least online. He is not competent and nobody has offered any evidence in this thread that he is.

I despise this government as much as anyone but that doesn't mean I'm going to take any pleasure in this.

At what point did I say I was taking pleasure in it? I'm taking immense displeasure at the suggestion that Lenihan is somehow more important than others suffering from horrid diseases, yet the fact that he's a finance minister "doesn't matter". It is ONLY because of his position that people give a shit and a lot to do with the mindless bullshit support of his decisions

He doesn't deserve this just because he's a politician. I sympathise with him as much as I would anyone else with the disease, who he is makes no difference to me. It's a truly viscous form of cancer.

Stop making generalisations.

No, you sympathise with him more. Otherwise, where is the thread for Jimmy O'Toole who has two weeks to live and a shitload less money than Lenihan? That's who I feel srry for. But I don't feel the need to prove I'm a good person by posting threads about that. There is more than enough sympathy being directed at Brian Lenihan. Why should I add to it when these threads make a bigger problem more obvious? If people are this gullible, they'll take decisions which could potentially kill more people(such as the closure of the Ennis A&E) much more lightly instead of putting pressure on for a better solution.

I sympathise with the man for having a foul almost certainly fatal disease and being in an awkward position in awkward times. However it doesn't change the fact that he's a cheeky git and could be doing a much better job.

[Haro]

Bile.

And what is the shite directed at public servants in the last few threads involving the Minister? The difference is I'm being angry at people for actually doing something wrong.

[Haro]

Never in my entire life have I ever heard such cruel and nonsensical rubbish. If you cannot seperate a persons role in work with the actual person themselves I have pity on you!

If you were able to do this, this thread would not exist. If he was not the minister of finance, this thread would not exist.

]quote]Please do not compare my compassion for AN IRISH man, who happens to be OUR finance minister in one of the worst economic times ever to fall upon our state with Jade fucking Goody![/quote]

You're right it's silly since Jade Goody didn't decide to cut half the dole for kids 21 and under. Real smart idea for keeping them in the country.

Not that you would understand but the man bears no responsibility for any of the crisis we find ourselves in and indeed is THE MOST honourable member of FF and, in the situation we are in, has done a good job and has even admitted he has learned from his mistakes showing that he is just human and honest. Get a grip you heartless fucker!

Nowhere are you providing any evidence he's done a good job. Also you're saying his politics don't matter while defending his decisions. Which is it?

[Corcaigh32]

Haro - with the greatest of all possible respect - a pension levy (whether you call it a pay cut or not) won't kill you. The public service pay cut in the last budget - won't kill you. Being on disability benefit won't kill you. Being a public servant with a permanent pensionable job and no danger of your employer deciding to move your job to Poland or Bangalore - won't kill you.

I am sure you can see where I am going with this - political discourse, economic recovery, public v private sector, the pros and cons of unions etc etc etc are all perfectly acceptable topics for debate and discussion in a current affairs forum such as this one. The impending demise of any person no matter who they are is NOT.

I know you know this. And for the sake of argument if this was Joe Higgins or Eamonn Gilmore or Caoimhin O'Caoileain or anyone from any party other than FF - the exact same would apply - it's called respect, manners, decorum, compassion and decency - because it's beyond politics or sport or anything else - this is at a human level.

[Haro]

Haro - with the greatest of all possible respect - a pension levy (whether you call it a pay cut or not) won't kill you. The public service pay cut in the last budget - won't kill you. Being on disability benefit won't kill you. Being a public servant with a permanent pensionable job and no danger of your employer deciding to move your job to Poland or Bangalore - won't kill you.

I am sure you can see where I am going with this - political discourse, economic recovery, public v private sector, the pros and cons of unions etc etc etc are all perfectly acceptable topics for debate and discussion in a current affairs forum such as this one. The impending demise of any person no matter who they are is NOT.

I know you know this. And for the sake of argument if this was Joe Higgins or Eamonn Gilmore or Caoimhin O'Caoileain or anyone from any party other than FF - the exact same would apply - it's called respect, manners, decorum, compassion and decency - because it's beyond politics or sport or anything else - this is at a human level.

You only give a shite about Brian Lenihan is because you're told he is someone important. And cutbacks to the health service in any shape or form inevitably WILL kill people. Death isn't the only way to make people miserable either.

It is not at a human level. Brian is no more a human than anyone else suffering from this disease and not everyone is as fond of the man as the mindless hicks who think it was a "Fair budget". He deserves the same sympathy from those around him that anyone else with his condition would get. Why does he deserve this thread? At the end of the day it can only come down to the same thing - it IS in fact about politics, since without politics, nobody would care about Brian Linehan.

It's nothing to do with compassion because you have none either. You're just reacting in a "polite" manner so you can look and feel better than those who don't.

It's like being brainwashed though, so it's impossible to appeal to anyone in this state. But I hope at least one or two people do cop on, this is just Jade Goody 2.0.

And also I'm sick of people saying it has nothing to do with politics yet are pretty much forcing people to accept he's a good man who made good decisions. Not everyone agrees with that, so why should people react like he's any better than Jade Goody?

[Corcaigh32]

OK - I will make a deal with you - if you want to discuss Fianna Fáil's record in government since, let's say 2002, including their budgets and the resultant effect on the Irish economy and the nation etc - let's start another thread and we can go at it hammer and thongs - we all can.

But you have to be able to make the distinction between the political decisions of a government and the personal human tragedy of ANYONE who has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The point I have been making, obviously badly because you haven't gotten it, is that it doesn't matter a damn WHO it is - it's a huge personal tragedy for the person and their family. Therefore NOONE deserves the kind of comments made in this thread already - NOONE does.

Do we have a deal?

[DogTheLangerHunter]

I don't know why people bother responding to Haro-king of the Universe.

He knows what we're all thinking.

[Haro]

Jesus, how thick are you! If it wasn't for him being finance minister nobody would give a toss, this is my point and you're ignoring it. You say NOONE deserves this and I agree with this more than you apparently do - noone meaning nobody much more equally than you seem to intend it. If you take the politics out of the man there's no reason to care about him over anyone else.

It's a tragedy if it happens to ANYONE. Why should we care about this man in specific? If you're a fan of his, that's one thing. But why should people who find the man to be incompetent be forced to pay attention to him specifically? Why not make a thread directed at cancer victims in general?

[Mossybanks]

If pancreatic cancer patients are to improve their odds of achieving a remission or long-term survival, they should attempt to integrate into their conventional therapy as many of the following dietary changes and supplements as possible, but only under a physician’s supervision.

■Aged Garlic Extract—1200 milligram (mg) daily

Brian Linehan is a fucking hero. I'd say he knew about this months ago.

[Corcaigh32]

OK - maybe we are in violent agreement - I don't think this thread should exist. I don't think it should exist because it allows pot shots at him at a time when it is highly inappropriate now. You don't think it should exist because it allows people to say how good a man he is, when you presumably disagree with his politics and decisions.

Here's an idea - let's both stop posting to the thread and request it be closed.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Jesus, how thick are you! If it wasn't for him being finance minister nobody would give a toss, this is my point and you're ignoring it. You say NOONE deserves this and I agree with this more than you apparently do - noone meaning nobody much more equally than you seem to intend it.

It's a tragedy if it happens to ANYONE. Why should we care about this man in specific? If you're a fan of his, that's one thing. But why should people who find the man to be incompetent be forced to pay attention to him specifically?

So you're saying it's not noteworthy that someone in the public eye has a life threatening disease and it should just be ignored. The fact that his cancer is being reported isn't a slight on anyone's cancer that is not. Of course his cancer will be reported just like every other aspect of his career is reported. It'd be weirder if he just dissapeared from view for a few months and then it was reported that he died.

So if someone came up to you and told you that someone you kind of know has pancreatic cancer, you'd just respond with 'fuck him, he's just trying to get sympathy, loads of people have cancer'?

Your Jade Goody comparison is tenuous because her disease was professionally spun and became her legacy. Lenihan is in the public eye for legitimate reasons.

You seem to think that sympathising with him because of his disease is tantamount to supporting FF, which is just silly.

[oul'doll]

Never in my entire life have I ever heard such cruel and nonsensical rubbish. If you cannot seperate a persons role in work with the actual person themselves I have pity on you! Please do not compare my compassion for AN IRISH man, who happens to be OUR finance minister in one of the worst economic times ever to fall upon our state with Jade fucking Goody! Not that you would understand but the man bears no responsibility for any of the crisis we find ourselves in and indeed is THE MOST honourable member of FF and, in the situation we are in, has done a good job and has even admitted he has learned from his mistakes showing that he is just human and honest. Get a grip you heartless fucker!


Never? Never ever? On the scale of cruel and nonsensical I can think of a lot worse than Haro expressing why he doesn't care about some politician dying.

[oul'doll]

The fact he is Minister for Finance is irrelevant essentially. It could be any one of us at any time unfortunately. A bit of decency, decorum and compassion wouldn't go astray at all.


Eh, no it isn't cos we wouldn't be talking about it otherwise.

Or do you want a list of all the people in Ireland who are dying so we can discuss them each individually?

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Never? Never ever? On the scale of cruel and nonsensical I can think of a lot worse than Haro expressing why he doesn't care about some politician dying.

Where?

Other celebrities dying I suppose but that's just a case of people acting the big boy on the INTERNET more than anything.

[Corcaigh32]

That's not what Haro is saying - he's complaining because he thinks the thread is lauding Brian Lenihan because of his diagnosis, when Haro fundamentally disagrees with his decisions and politics and thinks if he was any ordinary person with this diagnosis they wouldn't have a thread.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Eh, no it isn't cos we wouldn't be talking about it otherwise.

Or do you want a list of all the people in Ireland who are dying so we can discuss them each individually?

You're right in one way.

The only reason we should know this information is because he's a person of genuine interest who's on the news anyway, but I think the point trying to be made is that his record as minister of the FF government shouldn't be a reason to dehumanise him. He's a person, dying of an awful disease that will kill him.

I'd have sympathy for anyone in that situation, even Bertie.

[Corcaigh32]

Eh, no it isn't cos we wouldn't be talking about it otherwise.

Or do you want a list of all the people in Ireland who are dying so we can discuss them each individually?

Not you as well - seriously like.........try reading what I actually wrote in the context in which I actually wrote it. This thread has no business in existence.

[oul'doll]

That's not what Haro is saying - he's complaining because he thinks the thread is lauding Brian Lenihan because of his diagnosis, when Haro fundamentally disagrees with his decisions and politics and thinks if he was any ordinary person with this diagnosis they wouldn't have a thread.


No, this is exactly what he said:

I bet there's going to be the subtext of "Ah sure the man's dying, go easy on his shitty decisions".


He's bitter about the government that Mr Lenihan is a member of, and their shitty decisions. This thread is just like watching the local gossips congregate for a major session.

[oul'doll]

Not you as well - seriously like.........try reading what I actually wrote in the context in which I actually wrote it. This thread has no business in existence.


This thread has no business cos it's pathetic.

[Corcaigh32]

For someone with over 38,000 posts - try reading the entire thread before quoting selectively like a good little girl and presuming the intentions of other posters.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

No, this is exactly what he said:

I bet there's going to be the subtext of "Ah sure the man's dying, go easy on his shitty decisions".


He's bitter about the government that Mr Lenihan is a member of, and their shitty decisions. This thread is just like watching the local gossips congregate for a major session.

Which was a bit of a pathetic thing to say, no?

[Corcaigh32]

Alright alright - apologies in advance - went OTT in last post. Sorry oul'doll.

[oul'doll]

Which was a bit of a pathetic thing to say, no?


No, cos he was 100% right to say it.
Back up there before you attack him for speaking his mind, and 32, I have just read the whole thread and you and Dog here look like hysterical dopes.

Who's in power? FF
Who's been in power for years? FF
Who voted them in? The majority of the Irish people.
Who excuses their terrible decisions? The majority of the Irish people.

So it's a fair assumption that what Haro said is right. And no, the thread should not be pulled. Why should it? Cos something brought politics into a thread ABOUT A POLITICIAN? Oh, cos hte politician is dying we're only allowed say nice things? Well don't start a thread about it on a public forum then.


Bunch of hysterics is what ye are.

[Corcaigh32]

The only point I was ever trying to make in this thread - for the record - was that making comments about the government and the minister for finance and his decisions are fair game. Making comments about them in the context of his recent diagnosis and with reference to obvious and tragic consequence of the diagnosis in my opinion has no business in a current affairs forum and it wouldn't matter who it was, a politician, a sportsperson, a shopkeeper, me, Haro or anyone else.

[Haro]

So you're saying it's not noteworthy that someone in the public eye has a life threatening disease and it should just be ignored.

If Robert Mugabe gets hit by a bus should I care all that much? It might be an extreme example, but whether or not someone is in the public eye should not matter - you're just defending the bullshit "celebrity culture" that's corrupted so much of the world.

when Haro fundamentally disagrees with his decisions and politics and thinks if he was any ordinary person with this diagnosis they wouldn't have a thread.

He wouldn't. Obviously.

[diar2me]

If you were able to do this, this thread would not exist. If he was not the minister of finance, this thread would not exist.

]quote]Please do not compare my compassion for AN IRISH man, who happens to be OUR finance minister in one of the worst economic times ever to fall upon our state with Jade fucking Goody!

You're right it's silly since Jade Goody didn't decide to cut half the dole for kids 21 and under. Real smart idea for keeping them in the country.



Nowhere are you providing any evidence he's done a good job. Also you're saying his politics don't matter while defending his decisions. Which is it?[/QUOTE]

Oh see now we see your real bitterness coming through. I never have met someone so bitter that they would hold a sick man accountable for their own short comings in life. You have just said that because an Irish man made a decision in his job about how best to fulfill his job for the people he represents that now because he didn't tick the boxes you wanted ticked he deserves no compassion. Haro, seriously get yourself checked out.... there is something wrong with you!

[DogTheLangerHunter]

No, cos he was 100% right to say it.
Back up there before you attack him for speaking his mind, and 32, I have just read the whole thread and you and Dog here look like hysterical dopes.

Who's in power? FF
Who's been in power for years? FF
Who voted them in? The majority of the Irish people.
Who excuses their terrible decisions? The majority of the Irish people.

So it's a fair assumption that what Haro said is right. And no, the thread should not be pulled. Why should it? Cos something brought politics into a thread ABOUT A POLITICIAN? Oh, cos hte politician is dying we're only allowed say nice things? Well don't start a thread about it on a public forum then.


Bunch of hysterics is what ye are.

Don't be so fuckin dramatic. Nobody attacked him for speaking his mind, people just disagreed with him and he reverted to form by dolling out insults, calling everyone in Ireland thick as shit. A back and forth is allowed without people being attacked for their opinion.

[diar2me]

This thread has no business cos it's pathetic.

No you are patethic. You are the one who started the childish and sick posts! You should be ashamed of yourself. With 38,000 posts and an attitude to life like you are showing you clearly must not have much interaction with human beings, you sad excuse for one!

[Corcaigh32]

Nah oul'doll sorry but if the thread had stopped after 4 posts than there would be no problem - news announces diagnosis (which in and of itself is questionable newsworthiness considering) and there are 3 responses. The first post from Haro is what kicks it off. I joined the thread quite late. The FF government are fair game. As a minister in the government he is fair game but you can't bring his illness into the debate on either side - i.e. lay off him or kick him when he is down. Discuss his budget and the public service paycut fine. What has his illness got to do with it? Discuss the children's allowance cut. What has his illness got to do with that?

This thread was not started as a " the poor minister for finance - he's such a nice guy really" thread. It was started to inform the current affairs forum that it had been announced on TV3 about his diagnosis. Haro kicked it off about the potential reaction. I am not the least bit hysterical about Brian Lenihan - I have no issue debating his budget with you or anyone else here, today tomorrow or any other time. But leave his potential personal tragedy out of it - that's not hysterics - it's manners and decency - and I am sure you know that yourself.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

If Robert Mugabe gets hit by a bus should I care all that much? It might be an extreme example, but whether or not someone is in the public eye should not matter - you're just defending the bullshit "celebrity culture" that's corrupted so much of the world.



I agree about celebrity culture, but this isn't it. He is famous for a genuine reason, he's on the news pretty much everyday anyway due to his job, so it's not some tabloid extremism in reporting his disease.

I know that you know the Mugabe example is just wrong. One is not at all like the other, one has killed a lot of people (you might say that Linehan has implicitly killed people, but that would be hysterical).

There's an aspect on this where you and I agree, I hope FF don't try to exploit his death in some sort of vote getting exercise and I hope the (deserved) sympathy doesn't blinker people into voting FF again. But you'd never know with politicians.

[diar2me]

Nah oul'doll sorry but if the thread had stopped after 4 posts than there would be no problem - news announces diagnosis (which in and of itself is questionable newsworthiness considering) and there are 3 responses. The first post from Haro is what kicks it off. I joined the thread quite late. The FF government are fair game. As a minister in the government he is fair game but you can't bring his illness into the debate on either side - i.e. lay off him or kick him when he is down. Discuss his budget and the public service paycut fine. What has his illness got to do with it? Discuss the children's allowance cut. What has his illness got to do with that?

This thread was not started as a " the poor minister for finance - he's such a nice guy really" thread. It was started to inform the current affairs forum that it had been announced on TV3 about his diagnosis. Haro kicked it off about the potential reaction. I am not the least bit hysterical about Brian Lenihan - I have no issue debating his budget with you or anyone else here, today tomorrow or any other time. But leave his potential personal tragedy out of it - that's not hysterics - it's manners and decency - and I am sure you know that yourself.

Some people just don't have them unfortunately!

[Haro]

You're right it's silly since Jade Goody didn't decide to cut half the dole for kids 21 and under. Real smart idea for keeping them in the country.



Nowhere are you providing any evidence he's done a good job. Also you're saying his politics don't matter while defending his decisions. Which is it?

Oh see now we see your real bitterness coming through. I never have met someone so bitter that they would hold a sick man accountable for their own short comings in life. You have just said that because an Irish man made a decision in his job about how best to fulfill his job for the people he represents that now because he didn't tick the boxes you wanted ticked he deserves no compassion. Haro, seriously get yourself checked out.... there is something wrong with you![/QUOTE]

Excuse me, how being young and ending up on the dole in the middle of a recession the fault of someone's own shortcomings?

It's not about whether he agrees with me or not. It was a stupid decision, but more importantly I never said he didn't deserve any compassion. I said he didn't deserve any more than anyone else. You're arguing for him deserving more. Don't mistake that.

[Haro]

No, cos he was 100% right to say it.
Back up there before you attack him for speaking his mind, and 32, I have just read the whole thread and you and Dog here look like hysterical dopes.

Who's in power? FF
Who's been in power for years? FF
Who voted them in? The majority of the Irish people.
Who excuses their terrible decisions? The majority of the Irish people.

So it's a fair assumption that what Haro said is right. And no, the thread should not be pulled. Why should it? Cos something brought politics into a thread ABOUT A POLITICIAN? Oh, cos hte politician is dying we're only allowed say nice things? Well don't start a thread about it on a public forum then.


Bunch of hysterics is what ye are.

Thank you for this post.

Dog, it's good to see you're calming down a little but you still need to do a bit more thinking. I think diar2me is a bit beyond help so I won't bother addressing him.

[Corcaigh32]

Actually I am arguing for him deserving nothing more. I am arguing for him deserving for his decisions to be judged and debated and discussed on their merits or lack thereof without any favour. But I am arguing for his illness to be left out of it and because this thread was started to tell the forum that his illness was reported on TV3 news and there are loads of other threads to discuss his decisions and politics appropriately - then that's where they should be discussed.

This thread is about his illness and now that we all know about it should be left to slip down the pages and his decisions and politics can be debated as much as we want.

[Haro]

At the end of the day, it's down to Brian being "one of the boyos" just like Bertie was. Sure he's taking money on the side, but he's our fella. What a very Irish attitude.

[Corcaigh32]

And of course you have proof he is taking money on the side.....I can't stand this "what a very Irish attitude" stuff. I'll say it again - let's discuss the politics of the current situation, no problem, why insist on playing the man at all?

[blackforest]

http://www.timesonline.co.u k/tol/news/world/ireland/article6968449.ece
"Jim the clown" wouldn't go astray?

[blackforest]

The health of one man is unlikely to be worth than entire country.

My mum works in the hospital back in Ennis, and they shut down the A&E, since Limerick is apparently a centre for excellence. The first person died in the ambulence on the way to Limerick a couple of weeks later.

I don't doubt there's a problem with money, but here is a case in which the lives of people were apparently not more important the economy. This is why I'm so angry and why I refuse to believe the people in this thread are capable of genuine sympathy.

As far as I can see people should not die before these overpaid politicians dip into their own pockets. If they could have donated even a bit towards keeping this A&E open, people would have lived. It is impossible to optimise money everywhere, you would go nuts, but it is pretty clear to me that this is somewhere where it could have been easily rectified.

Cutbacks are lazy, easy decisions when much deeper restructuring needs to happen. A blind person takes a hit, but the bankers who caused the mess get a bonus. Is this fucking fair? The only grounds people have for thinking he's competent is because they wanted to see things taken out on the public sector, or are the typical political swots that voted Fianna Fail in again to begin with. Ah sure Bertie's grand isn't he?

I do not think Brian Lenihan is a good or competent person, and I'm sick of people saying "keep politics out of this" when they themselves are in love with the man down to their own malice and stupidity. I absolutely would not wish such a horrid condition on anyone, but Brian Lenihan is not the only man dying a painful death in the world, nor is he the only one who can balance a budget.

You have some chip on your shoulder buddy.

[diar2me]

Thank you for this post.

Dog, it's good to see you're calming down a little but you still need to do a bit more thinking. I think diar2me is a bit beyond help so I won't bother addressing him.

Oh please do, you truly are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Address me please or is it you just can't? Speak first, think after is it Haro?

[Pontipine]

Oh please do, you truly are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Address me please or is it you just can't? Speak first, think after is it Haro?

Why is he pathetic?

Is it because he has a different opinion than yours?I think Haro has come across very well in this thread and whether anyone agrees with him or not at least he is being honest.It is laughable that people wanted to see this thread deleted.

[Corcaigh32]

Can we try to separate the 2 things very clearly please?

1. The political career of Brian Lenihan, his decisions as Minister of Finance, the current FF government, the state of the nation, the economic crisis, the private sector versus public sector debate - all of which are valid topics for discussion now or at any time.

2. The fact that Brian Lenihan has been diagnosed apparently with a terminal cancer and has very little time left.

It is entirely possible to discuss 1 without reference to 2. This thread was started to inform people that Brian Lenihan was diagnosed with terminal cancer, not to ask people to lay off him because of it and definitely not to ask people to lay into him either.

So, the reason I wanted and still want the thread closed is because I am happy to discuss Minister Lenihan's budget on any thread at any time or this government or any other political issue of our time with anyone. Bringing someone's terminal illness into it lacks decency and manners in my view. It's that simple. So for the 3rd or 4th time, no one is saying Haro can't criticise Brian Lenihan or the government, no one is saying he or anyone else has to be nice to him and no one ever said that this thread was "how nice is Brian Lenihan cos he's sick" thread.

It is quite simple - argue the politics yes, argue the budget yes, argue the issues yes, but leave the personal tragedy out of it.

[Pontipine]

Can we try to separate the 2 things very clearly please?

1. The political career of Brian Lenihan, his decisions as Minister of Finance, the current FF government, the state of the nation, the economic crisis, the private sector versus public sector debate - all of which are valid topics for discussion now or at any time.

2. The fact that Brian Lenihan has been diagnosed apparently with a terminal cancer and has very little time left.

It is entirely possible to discuss 1 without reference to 2. This thread was started to inform people that Brian Lenihan was diagnosed with terminal cancer, not to ask people to lay off him because of it and definitely not to ask people to lay into him either.

So, the reason I wanted and still want the thread closed is because I am happy to discuss Minister Lenihan's budget on any thread at any time or this government or any other political issue of our time with anyone. Bringing someone's terminal illness into it lacks decency and manners in my view. It's that simple. So for the 3rd or 4th time, no one is saying Haro can't criticise Brian Lenihan or the government, no one is saying he or anyone else has to be nice to him and no one ever said that this thread was "how nice is Brian Lenihan cos he's sick" thread.

It is quite simple - argue the politics yes, argue the budget yes, argue the issues yes, but leave the personal tragedy out of it.

I do not think it is possible to seperate those two things.That is like saying that we should feel sorry for Ian Brady if we heard he had terminal cancer because we all think it is a terrible disease for anyone to get.Que the people saying you cannot compare Mr Lenihan with Brady but i am sure most will understand my point.

I think what Haro said earlier about the person dying in an ambulance because a certain A+E was closed was an interesting point.Brian Lenihan and his partners in the government are partly responsible for this and many other deaths like this around the country in my eyes.Some will agree and some disagree.I have spoken to people tonight and there is a lot of sympathy for the man but also there are many who have said to me they could not care less.That is because he and his party are responsible for some terrible suffering in this country that a lot of us simply cannot turn a blind eye too.

Make of that what you will and i am certainly not a hardened an evil person by any stretch for saying that.

[Langer Dan]

If Robert Mugabe gets hit by a bus should I care all that much? .

Thats one of the most glaringly stupid comparisons I have EVER read on this board.

FFS.:rolleyes:

[hemlock666]

Speaking as someone who's lost both parents to cancer I can assure anyone here who has no experience of it that it is the single most soul destroying thing you can witness as you helplessly watch someone you love be devoured slowly by the illness. Its a waking nightmare. There is a time and place for political bickering but spare a thought for what this man and his family are going through. Politically I dislike the man but I can only feel empathy for him as a human being. Im a crank, cynic and at times a complete bastard but I have compassion when it is due, something that is sadly lacking in this thread.

[ProfessorPwn]

Lads, I can see where Haro is coming from. We'll never know how many have died when they shouldn't have under FF's watch. What we do know is that they certainly place a lot of things, mainly feather bedding and assuring their own re-elections over the health of the country. Sure didn't CJ himself even rob some of the money raised to send Lenny senior over the get his op done in the states. So to say that someone's health is more important than the economy is true, but its not true for FF as they have shown time and time and again, the latest being the cervical cancer vacines and my own favourite, refusing cork children and cork children alone the TB vacine.

But on a personal note, its terrible news for Lenny and his family. He has been very impressive these last 12 months and seemed like a lad with real conviction in what he was doing, very un FF. I'd disagree with how he targeted the poorer members of society to pay for a problem created by the richer memebers but thats not really the issue at hand. Hpefully he can fight this thing off. I think Steve Jobs has/had this since 2004 so there may be some hope.

[ANVIL]

Lads, I can see where Haro is coming from. We'll never know how many have died when they shouldn't have under FF's watch. What we do know is that they certainly place a lot of things, mainly feather bedding and assuring their own re-elections over the health of the country. Sure didn't CJ himself even rob some of the money raised to send Lenny senior over the get his op done in the states. So to say that someone's health is more important than the economy is true, but its not true for FF as they have shown time and time and again, the latest being the cervical cancer vacines and my own favourite, refusing cork children and cork children alone the TB vacine.

But on a personal note, its terrible news for Lenny and his family. He has been very impressive these last 12 months and seemed like a lad with real conviction in what he was doing, very un FF. I'd disagree with how he targeted the poorer members of society to pay for a problem created by the richer memebers but thats not really the issue at hand. Hpefully he can fight this thing off. I think Steve Jobs has/had this since 2004 so there may be some hope.


Unfortunately pancreatic cancer survival rates are very very low - with perhaps only 20 per cent making it to a year - and it's hard to see Lenihan being able to continue in his current job for long.

Which is a real shame because of all the people in Government he seems the one most willing to take the tough decisions which will not be just about the most recent Budget but for the next couple of years as well.

If that clown Cowen simply puts a puppet in his place the outlook will not be rosy.

Sympathy must go to Lenihan and his family but also praise to TV3 for breaking the news - they held on to it for a couple of days to give time for the family to come to terms with the medical news over Christmas.

It's nice to see some journalists not willing to be part of the cosy Dublin political establishment like the pisspoor RTE News.

[jams]

Unfortunately pancreatic cancer survival rates are very very low - with perhaps only 20 per cent making it to a year - and it's hard to see Lenihan being able to continue in his current job for long.

Which is a real shame because of all the people in Government he seems the one most willing to take the tough decisions which will not be just about the most recent Budget but for the next couple of years as well.

If that clown Cowen simply puts a puppet in his place the outlook will not be rosy.

Sympathy must go to Lenihan and his family but also praise to TV3 for breaking the news - they held on to it for a couple of days to give time for the family to come to terms with the medical news over Christmas.

It's nice to see some journalists not willing to be part of the cosy Dublin political establishment like the pisspoor RTE News.




horseshit

[irishmonkey]

horseshit

agreed.
it was a personal matter and up to him if he wanted to tell the world.
If he needs to be replaced the can be done behind closed doors if he so wishes.
things like this are not anybodys business but his own and who he wants to tell.
TV3 should issue an apology.
the poor family now get to open the paper/tv/internet and have it thrown in there faces.

[diar2me]

Why is he pathetic?

Is it because he has a different opinion than yours?I think Haro has come across very well in this thread and whether anyone agrees with him or not at least he is being honest.It is laughable that people wanted to see this thread deleted.

Let me make my point absolutely clear for those of you that have trouble understanding.

Firstly on a political level Brian is doing a really good job. In the budget yes he cut social welfare for under 21's, which, in my opinion was a good move. Why should a youngfella living at home with mammy get €200 a week for doing nothing while I know people with children working for not much more than that. Secondly everyone here knows that Brian Lenihan is not part of the FF cosy cartel. He's made some great appointments too like Honohan as the new regulator etc etc. That appointment did not sit well with the banking sector. He has instructed judges that their pay has to be cut, gone after tax exiles and even his own in td's and backbenchers so please stop the rubbish like he is some sort of man taxing the poor and leaving the rest of society get away with it, because it's just factually incorrect.

Secondly I despise David Begg, for everything he stands for, for the absolute hypocritical way he conducts himself, for the rubbish he spouts out and the organisation he works for who are in fact some of the only fat cats left it seems, yet if he got cancer in the morning I would feel sympathy for him and his family. It's called being humane and having a heart and I certainly would not go online and say some of the stuff that has been said by a few sickos here. In their case they should just keep their mouths shut. Somethings in life are a tad more important than the value of their dole cheque.

[ANVIL]

agreed.
it was a personal matter and up to him if he wanted to tell the world.
If he needs to be replaced the can be done behind closed doors if he so wishes.
things like this are not anybodys business but his own and who he wants to tell.
TV3 should issue an apology.
the poor family now get to open the paper/tv/internet and have it thrown in there faces.

When the second most important elected member of a Government is suffering from a terminal illness it is the duty of news organisations to report that.
It's why democracies have news media.
Your attitude is the same old-fashioned, unquestioning servility towards those in authority which allowed the Catholic Church to get away with child abuse for so long.

[diar2me]

When the second most important elected member of a Government is suffering from a terminal illness it is the duty of news organisations to report that.
It's why democracies have news media.
Your attitude is the same old-fashioned, unquestioning servility towards those in authority which allowed the Catholic Church to get away with child abuse for so long.

That's so ridiculous it's actually worrying that people think the same way as you. A Family man with children at Christmas, in fairness like. Could they not have held off a few days and let the family have their holiday without media intrusion? No one is saying they shouldn't have reported it, just the timing was inhumane at best!

[ANVIL]

That's so ridiculous it's actually worrying that people think the same way as you. A Family man with children at Christmas, in fairness like. Could they not have held off a few days and let the family have their holiday without media intrusion? No one is saying they shouldn't have reported it, just the timing was inhumane at best!

They did hold off with the story for two days.
TV3 News' job is to report news not to act as the social conscience of a nation or be at the beck and call of Government press officers.
Successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with controlling the Irish news media for far too long.
Well done TV3.

[diar2me]

They did hold off with the story for two days.
TV3 News' job is to report news not to act as the social conscience of a nation or be at the beck and call of Government press officers.
Successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with controlling the Irish news media for far too long.
Well done TV3.

Delighted you said that, in that case Brian Lenihans job is to serve all the people of Ireland to the best of his ability, NOT TO try please 300,000 odd civil servants and their respective unions in that case, a job he did impeccably! TV3 has in my opinion lost all credibility after that. Even the rags came together and agreed not to publish the story because of the timing, yet Gombeen TV3 decided to run it at Christmas. That man however good or bad we may think he is has worked tirelessly for the last 1 & 1/2 years and the first smell of a holiday he gets with his family was infringed by irresponsible journalism. They are a disgrace!

[diar2me]

They did hold off with the story for two days.
TV3 News' job is to report news not to act as the social conscience of a nation or be at the beck and call of Government press officers.
Successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with controlling the Irish news media for far too long.
Well done TV3.

You do realise it's cancer he has, not some political ploy he's planning. Wake up!

[Corcaigh32]

So here's an idea Anvil - given that the Lenihan family didn't issue a statement and given that the Finance Ministry didn't issue a statement and given that it would obviously be in the news in the very near future because of its obvious implications for the state's economy - leave it.

No one is saying suppress it - no one is saying never report it - no one is saying change the substance of the story. But given that it's Christmas, would you or I or any other citizen in this country be impacted any more negatively by not knowing about his condition for say, 2 more weeks????

[ANVIL]

So here's an idea Anvil - given that the Lenihan family didn't issue a statement and given that the Finance Ministry didn't issue a statement and given that it would obviously be in the news in the very near future because of its obvious implications for the state's economy - leave it.

No one is saying suppress it - no one is saying never report it - no one is saying change the substance of the story. But given that it's Christmas, would you or I or any other citizen in this country be impacted any more negatively by not knowing about his condition for say, 2 more weeks????

So what should TV3 do ?
Wait until the state-sponsored RTE News deign to report the news ?
Why do the Irish people continue to act like sheep, waiting to accept their news being delivered to them ?This is exactly why clerical child abuse went on for so long - because the population still has this servile attitude to their lord and masters.
Pathetic.

[diar2me]

So what should TV3 do ?
Wait until the state-sponsored RTE News deign to report the news ?
Why do the Irish people continue to act like sheep, waiting to accept their news being delivered to them ?This is exactly why clerical child abuse went on for so long - because the population still has this servile attitude to their lord and masters.
Pathetic.

Cancer!!!!

[KD Langer]

Let me make my point absolutely clear for those of you that have trouble understanding.

Firstly on a political level Brian is doing a really good job. In the budget yes he cut social welfare for under 21's, which, in my opinion was a good move. Why should a youngfella living at home with mammy get €200 a week for doing nothing while I know people with children working for not much more than that. Secondly everyone here knows that Brian Lenihan is not part of the FF cosy cartel. He's made some great appointments too like Honohan as the new regulator etc etc. That appointment did not sit well with the banking sector. He has instructed judges that their pay has to be cut, gone after tax exiles and even his own in td's and backbenchers so please stop the rubbish like he is some sort of man taxing the poor and leaving the rest of society get away with it, because it's just factually incorrect.

Secondly I despise David Begg, for everything he stands for, for the absolute hypocritical way he conducts himself, for the rubbish he spouts out and the organisation he works for who are in fact some of the only fat cats left it seems, yet if he got cancer in the morning I would feel sympathy for him and his family. It's called being humane and having a heart and I certainly would not go online and say some of the stuff that has been said by a few sickos here. In their case they should just keep their mouths shut. Somethings in life are a tad more important than the value of their dole cheque.

excellent post.simply excellent.

[Langer Dan]

So what should TV3 do ?
Wait until the state-sponsored RTE News deign to report the news ?
Why do the Irish people continue to act like sheep, waiting to accept their news being delivered to them ?This is exactly why clerical child abuse went on for so long - because the population still has this servile attitude to their lord and masters.
Pathetic.


Nah theres pretty much shag all lords in Ireland, you must be thinking of Eng-ur-land.

I couldn't give a tinker's toss what TV3 report on, but making political sport of a serious illness is the lowest of the low anyway it's dressed up.

[ANVIL]

Cancer!!!!

Precisely - a terminal illness which will affect the ability of the person responsible for the fiscal management of this country.
Which is why the electorate has a right to know the man is suffering from it.
TV3 gave Lenihan sufficient time for his family to come to terms with the news then went ahead and did their job.
Stop acting like sheeple. It's the real world.

[frankeechops]

So what should TV3 do ?
Wait until the state-sponsored RTE News deign to report the news ?
Why do the Irish people continue to act like sheep, waiting to accept their news being delivered to them ?This is exactly why clerical child abuse went on for so long - because the population still has this servile attitude to their lord and masters.
Pathetic.

Apparently, the first Mary O'Rourke heard of this was when TV3 asked her for a comment. Still think they were right?

[KD Langer]

So what should TV3 do ?
Wait until the state-sponsored RTE News deign to report the news ?
Why do the Irish people continue to act like sheep, waiting to accept their news being delivered to them ?This is exactly why clerical child abuse went on for so long - because the population still has this servile attitude to their lord and masters.
Pathetic.

bravo tv3.


the country would have been ruined if we hadn't known this sad news or another week.

[Langer Dan]

Precisely - a terminal illness which will affect the ability of the person responsible for the fiscal management of this country.
Which is why the electorate has a right to know the man is suffering from it.
TV3 gave Lenihan sufficient time for his family to come to terms with the news then went ahead and did their job.
Stop acting like sheeple. It's the real world.

:lol!:

Hi Pie-y

[ANVIL]

Nah theres pretty much shag all lords in Ireland, you must be thinking of Eng-ur-land.

I couldn't give a tinker's toss what TV3 report on, but making political sport of a serious illness is the lowest of the low anyway it's dressed up.

I dunno.
Baron Lloyd-Webber is just one English castle-owner in Ireland - I vouchsafe there are still quite a few others who own substantial tracts of land.
They haven't gone away you know :lol!::lol!::lol!:

[Langer Dan]

You gotta let the feudalism go Anviy, we're a republic.

You may enjoy giving worship to some germanic bint in a silly hat but we prefer to elect our leaders rather than rely on some cosmic deity to decide our head of state.

Anyhoo, the Lenihan family have my sympathy as would anyone suffering this awful illness. A bit of decorum please lads.

[diar2me]

Precisely - a terminal illness which will affect the ability of the person responsible for the fiscal management of this country.
Which is why the electorate has a right to know the man is suffering from it.
TV3 gave Lenihan sufficient time for his family to come to terms with the news then went ahead and did their job.
Stop acting like sheeple. It's the real world.

I do not get disturbed by the opinions of people very often but if there is more people like you in this country it makes me worry for our future. I have very strong opinions on the economy, on public sectors, on unions, on the government, on people on social welfare, but, when it comes to a life or death illness I realise that we are all only human and as I said already some things in life ARE more important than cheques and finances. It is the height of ignorance and actually makes me feel ill the way you think so coldly. Again NO ONE said that at the start of January it should not have been reported but the man has young children and at the very least deserved Christmas time to come to terms with his news with his family. Maybe you should apply for a job with TV3? It seems you'd fit in there well!

[frankeechops]

I do not get disturbed by the opinions of people very often but if there is more people like you in this country it makes me worry for our future.

He's an English WUM. Ignore him and any of his pronouncements.

[ANVIL]

You gotta let the feudalism go Anviy, we're a republic.

You may enjoy giving worship to some germanic bint in a silly hat but we prefer to elect our leaders rather than rely on some cosmic deity to decide our head of state.

Anyhoo, the Lenihan family have my sympathy as would anyone suffering this awful illness. A bit of decorum please lads.

You can take the mucksavage out of the country, ask him to leave his muddy Wellingtons at the door of the Celtic Tiger and then send him all the way back to the country massively in debt and none the wiser - but he'll still have a smell of dung off him.

The so-called " fighting Irish " cowed into servile submission is a sad sight indeed.

Lenihan is a good politician - he'll understand TV3 were only doing their job.

Poor innocent LD :lol!::lol!::lol!:

[diar2me]

He's an English WUM. Ignore him and any of his pronouncements.

Ah that explains it. Dirty tan!

[Corcaigh32]

Ah Anvil you know there's a world of difference between the cover-up of child abuse between the church and state and their control of the media and what could and should have happened here. In fairness like, it's not remotely the same thing.

The crux of the thread and what has driven it to 11 pages is this.

Fine have serious issues with the government, with their policies, with FF, with the budget, even with Lenihan and his history of decisions in his many portfolios - but debate them on their POLITICAL merits or lackthereof. Leave his illness out of it.

The 5th post in the thread was from Haro making the point that people would stream on saying what a nice guy he is and that people should leave him alone when it is obvious he fundamentally disagrees with the current government and Lenihan's budget and fiscal policy. I happen to believe it is possible to debate the latter without involving his illness at all and was advocating the thread be closed.

His illness is a personal and family thing. It should not become a political football. Yes loads of other people have cancer. No, they don't have an internet forum thread devoted to them, but then I would have said neither should Brian Lenihan have had, because TV3 should not have reported it in my view for the same reasons I mentioned to you above. It's not state censorship, it's not FF controlling the media, it's just common decency.

[Langer Dan]

You can take the mucksavage out of the country, ask him to leave his muddy Wellingtons at the door of the Celtic Tiger and then send him all the way back to the country massively in debt and none the wiser - but he'll still have a smell of dung off him.

The so-called " fighting Irish " cowed into servile submission is a sad sight indeed.

Lenihan is a good politician - he'll understand TV3 were only doing their job.

Poor innocent LD

Show me where i mentioned TV3? You're talking out of your hat.
And drop the racist Paddy-bashing schtick, it's boring.

Gwan ya dope, I take issue with certain posters scoring political points off a serious illness.

Poor unable to read a thread Pie-y :lol!::lol!::lol!:

[irishmonkey]

When the second most important elected member of a Government is suffering from a terminal illness it is the duty of news organisations to report that.
It's why democracies have news media.
Your attitude is the same old-fashioned, unquestioning servility towards those in authority which allowed the Catholic Church to get away with child abuse for so long.

oh fuck you buddy, Do not hold me responsible for child abuse that happened before i was born, you fucking inbred cunt!!!!

I do not have "unquestioning servility"
I just think this is a personal matter and do not see the point of it been reported.
considering the dail is not sitting at the moment, what good does it do to have the media around the place before he has told friends and family.
As the public do not have any say in who replaces him there is no reason for it to be spread around like this.

and make no question about it.
I fully support Brian in his budget not because of my "unquestioning servility" but because i do not see the point of supporting the wasters the have been on the dole from the age of 18 and never bothered there ass during the good times to get a job.

no good came from the country knowing about this before he was ready to tell us.
hes still coming to terms with it for Christs sake.


ANVIL fuck off and go watch re-runs of big brother because that seems to be the hight of your intellectual understanding.

apologizes for the amount of swearing to the rest of ye

[ANVIL]

Show me where i mentioned TV3? You're talking out of your hat.
And drop the racist Paddy-bashing schtick, it's boring.

Gwan ya dope, I take issue with certain posters scoring political points off a serious illness.

Poor unable to read a thread Pie-y :lol!::lol!::lol!:

Even if I was English I'd have to have a large belly-laugh at the sight of someone complaining about Paddy-bashing on here where racist anti-English sentiment is rife.

You needed to toughen up a bit LD - the Celtic Tiger has left you soft and flabby.

[diar2me]

oh fuck you buddy, Do not hold me responsible for child abuse that happened before i was born, you fucking inbred cunt!!!!

I do not have "unquestioning servility"
I just think this is a personal matter and do not see the point of it been reported.
considering the dail is not sitting at the moment, what good does it do to have the media around the place before he has told friends and family.
As the public do not have any say in who replaces him there is no reason for it to be spread around like this.

and make no question about it.
I fully support Brian in his budget not because of my "unquestioning servility" but because i do not see the point of supporting the wasters the have been on the dole from the age of 18 and never bothered there ass during the good times to get a job.

no good came from the country knowing about this before he was ready to tell us.
hes still coming to terms with it for Christs sake.


ANVIL fuck off and go watch re-runs of big brother because that seems to be the hight of your intellectual understanding.

apologizes for the amount of swearing to the rest of ye

I was just about to start so no apologies needed and you took the words right outta my mouth!

[Langer Dan]

Even if I was English I'd have to have a large belly-laugh at the sight of someone complaining about Paddy-bashing on here where racist anti-English sentiment is rife.

You needed to toughen up a bit LD - the Celtic Tiger has left you soft and flabby.

Show me where I mentioned TV3.

You don't even know what you're posting about half the time Anviy.
Jokeshop.:rolleyes:

[Corcaigh32]

Lads this is getting way way out of control.
Can we not close the thread no?
Anvil - if you want to debate the budget, or media censorship, or tony o'reilly or what you think is anglophobia and what I see is rife anglophilia - start a thread and I am there - but this thread should be closed.

[ANVIL]

Show me where I mentioned TV3.

You don't even know what you're posting about half the time Anviy.
Jokeshop.:rolleyes:

Ah no LD, jokeshop would be posting pictures of Asian lads which you'll notice I don't.

You'll also notice I posted that the Lenihan family had my sympathy.
I just don't happen to agree with people criticising TV3 for doing their job.

But I do find it amusing when you adopt a moral tone !

[Langer Dan]

Ah no LD, jokeshop would be posting pictures of Asian lads which you'll notice I don't.

You'll also notice I posted that the Lenihan family had my sympathy.
I just don't happen to agree with people criticising TV3 for doing their job.

But I do find it amusing when you adopt a moral tone !

:confused:

Christ you're talking some load of bollocks now.
I NEVER mentioned TV3.

You're only talking through your hole Anviy.

[frankeechops]

Lads this is getting way way out of control.
Can we not close the thread no?
Anvil - if you want to debate the budget, or media censorship, or tony o'reilly or what you think is anglophobia and what I see is rife anglophilia - start a thread and I am there - but this thread should be closed.

People have a right to express their thoughts 32, no matter how crass or idiotic they are.

[ANVIL]

:confused:

Christ you're talking some load of bollocks now.
I NEVER mentioned TV3.

You're only talking through your hole Anviy.

Does this from an earlier post remind you of anything LD ?

I couldn't give a tinker's toss what TV3 report on, but making political sport of a serious illness is the lowest of the low anyway it's dressed up.

You're losing your marbles son.

[Langer Dan]

Does this from an earlier post remind you of anything LD ?

I couldn't give a tinker's toss what TV3 report on, but making political sport of a serious illness is the lowest of the low anyway it's dressed up.

You're losing your marbles son.

:sleeping:

And your point being?

Was I being critical of their coverage there?
No quite the opposite in fact.

My point as it always has been, is that scoring political points off a serious illness is despicable 'son'.

Gway ya paddy bashing excuse for an alterego.:rolleyes:

[ANVIL]

:sleeping:

And your point being?

Was I being critical of their coverage there?
No quite the opposite in fact.

My point as it always has been, is that scoring political points off a serious illness is despicable 'son'.

Gway ya paddy bashing excuse for an alterego.:rolleyes:

So when you said " I NEVER mentioned TV3 - you are talking out of your hole Anviy " you actually had mentioned it ?

Train crash stuff LD.


My point is not that people are trying to make political capital out of Lenihan's illness - I'm not aware that anyone has been " - but I was merely defending TV3's right to report it.

Simple as that really.

Even for a spud-gobbler like you :lol!:

[Corcaigh32]

People have a right to express their thoughts 32, no matter how crass or idiotic they are.

Not disputing it for a second - but there are levels of decency that free speech on the PROC doesn't need to cross - we are not Reuters or CNN - we should be able to regulate ourselves to some level of respect.

[ANVIL]

Not disputing it for a second - but there are levels of decency that free speech on the PROC doesn't need to cross - we are not Reuters or CNN - we should be able to regulate ourselves to some level of respect.

Okay - I'm in favour of free speech too which is why I think you're a wanker for asking for a perfectly reasonable thread about a politician's illness to be closed.

You're a timid soul aren't you !

[frankeechops]

Not disputing it for a second - but there are levels of decency that free speech on the PROC doesn't need to cross - we are not Reuters or CNN - we should be able to regulate ourselves to some level of respect.

Don't agree really, while I find 90% of this thread disgusts me, I belive people have a right to say what they want about a public figure. Self regulation of this site comes from being able to ignore what is obviously ill informed or just plain idiotic.

Okay - I'm in favour of free speech too which is why I think you're a wanker for asking for a perfectly reasonable thread about a politician's illness to be closed.

Wummtastic Mate..

[Corcaigh32]

Did you read the whole thread or has the red mist descended already? Do you normally go with the personal abuse stuff early even when people have just used your ID with you? As for being a timid soul - no I am not. If you can't see that this is so far beyond being appropriate for a thread on an internet forum that's your problem not mine.

Like I have said over and over again. Argue the politics of it fine no problem. Argue who might take over from him even, (bad taste as that would be) but you could see how it would be politically relevant. Argue the implications of his budget. Argue public v private sector. Argue were TV3 right to broadcast his diagnosis. Argue anything but keep his illness and smart comments about his illness out of the thread. Yes I know you haven't made any Anvil - but that is why I was asking for the thread to be closed - not to prevent you from having a scrap with LD or not because I am a "timid soul". At a human level, some things have no business being bandied about on an internet forum whether it's Brian Lenihan or God forbid you or I.

[REMIMUFC]

i think this is a trajedy for the man-tv3 screwed him aswell bad form

[Langer Dan]

Even for a spud-gobbler like you :lol!:

Pitiful stuff.

[corcadorca]

Pancreatic cancer, any cancer, is horrendous. Of course TV3 should have respected Brian Lenihan's privacy and allowed him to tell his family in his own time over/after Christmas. But then they would not have made a profit on the back of that tabloid staple, the combination of famous person plus personal tragedy. Furthermore they'd have lost the opportunity to 'poigniantly' contrast the Lenihan family tragedy with readers mince-pie and selection box happiness. The media gives us a false sense of intimacy with people. Sometimes, as in case of celebrities, this intimacy is courted, sometimes, as in the case of Brian Lenihan, it isn't. While this is an important distinction for the individuals concerned, to the logic of tabloids the difference is irrelevant as both provide opportunities to pass gossip off as genuine concern and revenue garnered as incidental. The real hierarchy of concern is money, gossip and way down the list, concern. As for readers, it doesn't matter to the tabloids if the emotions generated are sadness, morbid curiosity, schadenfreude or arguments about privacy in the media and tabloid standards, private lives vs. public lives, as all of these sell.

The man's policies are good or bad on their own merits, to be judged objectively or subjectively by whatever lights you judge ecconomics & politics; those of us who don't know the man should sympathise as with any other suffer and their family.

[ANVIL]

Pancreatic cancer, any cancer, is horrendous. Of course TV3 should have respected Brian Lenihan's privacy and allowed him to tell his family in his own time over/after Christmas. But then they would not have made a profit on the back of that tabloid staple, the combination of famous person plus personal tragedy and contrast it with time of family and happiness. The media gives us a false sense of intimacy with people. Sometimes, as in case of celebrities, this attention is courted, sometimes, as in the case of Brian Lenihan, it isn't. While this is an important distinction for the individuals concerned, to the logic of tabloids the difference is irrelevant as both provide opportunities to pass gossip off as genuine concern and revenue generated as incidental. The real hierarchy of concern is money, gossip and way down the list, concern. As for readers, it doesn't matter to the tabloids if the emotions generated are sadness, morbid curiosity, schadenfreude or arguments about privacy in the media, as all of these sell.

The man's policies are good or bad on their own merits, to be judged objectively or subjectively by whatever lights you judge ecconomics & politics; those of us who don't know the man should sympathise as with any other suffer and their family.

Not for the first time you are getting carried away with your own verbosity.

For a start TV3 is not a tabloid newspaper. It's a television station which has a news division which is obliged, by law, to observe certain standards in accuracy and fairness.

It is under no obligation to withhold matters of fact although, as in this case where TV3 didn't report news of Lenihan's illness for several days, broadcast organisations will observe some level of tact and discretion.

BY his own choice and by seeking a mandate from the electorate Lenihan has placed himself in the public eye and he will know what comes with that territory.

The idea that a news organisation shouldn't report the fact that a powerful figure in the country is suffering from a likely terminal illness is risible.

[ProfessorPwn]

Corcaigh, question.

Why didn't you, as one of the main players in the movement, call to have the cork hurlers thread closed or removed when it fell into the gutter?

Some of the stuff being said about Bob Honohan and Frank Murphy was pretty off the wall?

Smacks of double standards from the outsiders viewpoint.

[KolaKubes]

Corcaigh, question.

Why didn't you, as one of the main players in the movement, call to have the cork hurlers thread closed or removed when it fell into the gutter?

Some of the stuff being said about Bob Honohan and Frank Murphy was pretty off the wall?

Smacks of double standards from the outsiders viewpoint.

You're such a snake in the grass on the hurlers' dispute.

Why don't you come out as a County Board man?

Probably behind one or two of the more obvious wums on that thread as well.

[Langer Dan]

You're such a snake in the grass on the hurlers' dispute.

Why don't you come out as a County Board man?

Probably behind one or two of the more obvious wums on that thread as well.

Oooh, them's fighting words.

* ding ding *

[Haro]

Can we try to separate the 2 things very clearly please?

1. The political career of Brian Lenihan, his decisions as Minister of Finance, the current FF government, the state of the nation, the economic crisis, the private sector versus public sector debate - all of which are valid topics for discussion now or at any time.

2. The fact that Brian Lenihan has been diagnosed apparently with a terminal cancer and has very little time left.

It is entirely possible to discuss 1 without reference to 2. This thread was started to inform people that Brian Lenihan was diagnosed with terminal cancer, not to ask people to lay off him because of it and definitely not to ask people to lay into him either.

So, the reason I wanted and still want the thread closed is because I am happy to discuss Minister Lenihan's budget on any thread at any time or this government or any other political issue of our time with anyone. Bringing someone's terminal illness into it lacks decency and manners in my view. It's that simple. So for the 3rd or 4th time, no one is saying Haro can't criticise Brian Lenihan or the government, no one is saying he or anyone else has to be nice to him and no one ever said that this thread was "how nice is Brian Lenihan cos he's sick" thread.

It is quite simple - argue the politics yes, argue the budget yes, argue the issues yes, but leave the personal tragedy out of it.

Brian Lenihan is only someone because of 1. Also he's only been in the news particularly often recently because of the budget.

I'm not just criticising his decisions or the government. My side is criticising the idea that people should essentially be forced to be sympathetic, that the idea that the economy isn't more important than human life is hypocritical since people have already died on the way to Limerick due to cutbacks in Ennis hospital, and that Brian Lenihan even deserves this thread when thousands of others in a worse position than him recieve no such compassion.

[Haro]

Thats one of the most glaringly stupid comparisons I have EVER read on this board.

FFS.:rolleyes:

I'm noticing a common trend here. The people who are so mightily offended at the comments I'm making tend towards making posts like this - cliched, forced looking expressions of offense about how horribly stupid what myself or the other couple in this thread is saying, without any real arugment.

This is a common trend with arguments in PROC in general, but it's particularly notable when you get these sympathy party kind of arguments. This is why I say this party has no intellectual honesty and is only full of malice, just looking to goad and guilt trip people into feeling the same as them. Nobody, of course, in this thread anyway, has wished this condition on Brian Lenihan, nor do they feel good about - it has been stated by our side that we feel sorry for all sufferers from such a condition. You are stating the same. Obviously, one of us is lying, and to me, you're not making a good case that it's us.

I can argue that it's you because you are focusing on the suffering of one man, rather than how horrible the disease is in general - merely using that fact to silence dissenters. You can argue that our side is lying because we do not show the sympathy we claim to have, and attack your side - however this attack cannot really get a pass as it makes sense that trying to drill into an argument will appear as aggressive. Being the underdog in an argument where you're easily the villain is not easy, no matter what. It would seem hypocritical to argue for the case of sympathy being fake or unfairly distributed while adding to the pile. Because of that, in any kind of unbiased argument where emotions where not all over the place, your side would not win.

There is no such thing as common sense in argument. If you can't prove your case, you aren't worth shit in an argument. And there is still no convincing reason for why Brian Lenihan deserves this thread any more than any other poor soul, many of whom worse off than him.

There is still hope from life - there is NO hope from death and you can be almost guaranteed people have died due to cutbacks from the health services, and cutbacks to educations could well be linked to increased crime rates, thus murders thus deaths too. This is more difficult to prove, so I'm just suggesting it as a possibility for now. I am not saying you can never make any cutbacks - but it is not as simple as "A man's health comes before the economy". Also there is no reason to believe that his budget was the best move possible. It's just a presumption, not everyone agrees with it. It's still a cat in a box, though past precedent and a bit of logic will tell you at least some of those measures are silly.

You cannot seperate the man from the politics as without the politics there is no man to us. This is a fact.

[The Zurich Connection]

I bet there's going to be the subtext of "Ah sure the man's dying, go easy on his shitty decisions".

His decisions have been ok considering the party he is with. He is a fairly good minister. FF will milk this to detract from their ineptness. Thererin is the saddest part.

I feel sorry for him and his family, I really do, but the public has a right to know how well he is... there is too much at stake.

[Haro]

Also - the whole problem with Irish culture is that people with money and power are not held sufficiently accountable for their actions. I would then suggest that those trying to "leave politics out of this" are part of the problem.

[The Zurich Connection]

Also - the whole problem with Irish culture is that people with money and power are not held sufficiently accountable for their actions. I would then suggest that those trying to "leave politics out of this" are part of the problem.

You are spot on. The "ministers are rallying behind him" bit is fairly pathetic. read it today on a flight and nearly puked. If he is as ill as it would seem he has to step down with immediate effect.

[Langer Dan]

You are spot on. The "ministers are rallying behind him" bit is fairly pathetic. read it today on a flight and nearly puked. If he is as ill as it would seem he has to step down with immediate effect.

Unicorn was it?

[Musical Paper Boy]

You are spot on. The "ministers are rallying behind him" bit is fairly pathetic. read it today on a flight and nearly puked. If he is as ill as it would seem he has to step down with immediate effect.

Nice suit tony

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/81866820.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=EDF6F2F4F969CEBD7B 71F50CB7862919722914 DDD5CAC86A279C3004D1 C2DF2B

[ProfessorPwn]

You're such a snake in the grass on the hurlers' dispute.

Why don't you come out as a County Board man?

Probably behind one or two of the more obvious wums on that thread as well.

Stick to the manyoo stuff tight top man.

Its a valid point and well you know it.

[ProfessorPwn]

You are spot on. The "ministers are rallying behind him" bit is fairly pathetic. read it today on a flight and nearly puked. If he is as ill as it would seem he has to step down with immediate effect.

Happy xmas Tone.

Onwards and upwards for next year. Who'll blink first

[KolaKubes]

Stick to the manyoo stuff tight top man.

Its a valid point and well you know it.

You were mealy mouthed at best in support of the hurlers.

How could the self-styled bane of Roy Keane back the players in a dispute with the establishment?

It's not like you to sit on the fence, ergo, I think it was merely a diplomatic stance while your alter egos did the dirty work.

[Corcaigh32]

Corcaigh, question.

Why didn't you, as one of the main players in the movement, call to have the cork hurlers thread closed or removed when it fell into the gutter?

Some of the stuff being said about Bob Honohan and Frank Murphy was pretty off the wall?

Smacks of double standards from the outsiders viewpoint.

If you check the Hurlers thread and I do not have the time to do a search through over the 1,000 posts I made to that thread, you will find I consistently said that personal insults against Frank Murphy, Bob Honohan, Seán Og, Donal Og, Ger Mac and EVERYONE involved had no business in the thread. Not only that but in both marches from the stage and from the back of the truck I repeatedly said that under no circumstances were the marches a personal attack or to be used as a personal attack on anyone.

Also Prof, this is not remotely the same thing and Haro and others consistently miss the point that I have been trying to make because it does not suit. So fair enough the thread has continued and I am tired of simplifying my point to the n-th degree when it is clear it is just being ignored anyway. No worries lads - drive on.

[Corcaigh32]

I'm noticing a common trend here. The people who are so mightily offended at the comments I'm making tend towards making posts like this - cliched, forced looking expressions of offense about how horribly stupid what myself or the other couple in this thread is saying, without any real arugment.

This is a common trend with arguments in PROC in general, but it's particularly notable when you get these sympathy party kind of arguments. This is why I say this party has no intellectual honesty and is only full of malice, just looking to goad and guilt trip people into feeling the same as them. Nobody, of course, in this thread anyway, has wished this condition on Brian Lenihan, nor do they feel good about - it has been stated by our side that we feel sorry for all sufferers from such a condition. You are stating the same. Obviously, one of us is lying, and to me, you're not making a good case that it's us.

I can argue that it's you because you are focusing on the suffering of one man, rather than how horrible the disease is in general - merely using that fact to silence dissenters. You can argue that our side is lying because we do not show the sympathy we claim to have, and attack your side - however this attack cannot really get a pass as it makes sense that trying to drill into an argument will appear as aggressive. Being the underdog in an argument where you're easily the villain is not easy, no matter what. It would seem hypocritical to argue for the case of sympathy being fake or unfairly distributed while adding to the pile. Because of that, in any kind of unbiased argument where emotions where not all over the place, your side would not win.

There is no such thing as common sense in argument. If you can't prove your case, you aren't worth shit in an argument. And there is still no convincing reason for why Brian Lenihan deserves this thread any more than any other poor soul, many of whom worse off than him.

There is still hope from life - there is NO hope from death and you can be almost guaranteed people have died due to cutbacks from the health services, and cutbacks to educations could well be linked to increased crime rates, thus murders thus deaths too. This is more difficult to prove, so I'm just suggesting it as a possibility for now. I am not saying you can never make any cutbacks - but it is not as simple as "A man's health comes before the economy". Also there is no reason to believe that his budget was the best move possible. It's just a presumption, not everyone agrees with it. It's still a cat in a box, though past precedent and a bit of logic will tell you at least some of those measures are silly.

You cannot seperate the man from the politics as without the politics there is no man to us. This is a fact.

For the last time - I am not advocating that Brian Lenihan deserves this thread at all. This has been the point I have repeatedly being trying to make.

Other than the thread informing people that the diagnosis has been reported on TV3 (which in and of itself was unnecessary for the moment in my view), the thread should simply have stopped after post 4 and all of this arguing would never have happened. There are tons of threads about politics in this current affairs forum discussing many of the topics that Haro has raised in this one - why not continue the debates in those ??

My objection is the manner and tone in which they have been linked to Brian Lenihan's terminal illness in this thread and nothing more.

My last post in this thread lads.....I'll leave ye at it.

[Haro]

You are spot on. The "ministers are rallying behind him" bit is fairly pathetic. read it today on a flight and nearly puked. If he is as ill as it would seem he has to step down with immediate effect.

Good point - people haven't really brought this up actually. In fact, the whole budget could come into question if he was suffering this badly. But people don't want that of course - they want to defend the man every which way.

[corcadorca]

Not for the first time you are getting carried away with your own verbosity.

For a start TV3 is not a tabloid newspaper. It's a television station which has a news division which is obliged, by law, to observe certain standards in accuracy and fairness.

It is under no obligation to withhold matters of fact although, as in this case where TV3 didn't report news of Lenihan's illness for several days, broadcast organisations will observe some level of tact and discretion.

BY his own choice and by seeking a mandate from the electorate Lenihan has placed himself in the public eye and he will know what comes with that territory.

The idea that a news organisation shouldn't report the fact that a powerful figure in the country is suffering from a likely terminal illness is risible.

Tact and discresion is the point. It's tabloid tv in fairness when it goes snooping and reporting like this without giving the man space to put his affairs in order. Don't you think he'd have come out about it after the holidays, given that he is unlikely to have much time left. How has breaking this stuff now, rather than the new year helped anything or anybody?

[Beaty]

TV3 and TACT are the same spelling.

S

[Beaty]

TV3 and TACT are the same spelling.

S

[diar2me]

Good point - people haven't really brought this up actually. In fact, the whole budget could come into question if he was suffering this badly. But people don't want that of course - they want to defend the man every which way.

You truly are a horrible human being, funny how you speak of how the man had no regard or compassion when doing his job yet you do the exact same thing when talking about the same man with a serious illness. Is that hypocrisy I can smell?

[dboy]

My two cents:

Of course it was insensitive of tv3 to release the information on Stephen's day and I do have sympathy for Mr. Linehan on a personal level. Every family in Ireland has been affected by cancer, so people do understand the personal heartache that the Linehan family must be suffering. However, in truth the story was always going to be broken by one of the newspapers over the christmas period. It was a case of who would release the story first.

TV3 are a commercial organisation - they have taken many cutbacks in their newsroom, so their survival is dependant on them breaking relevant news stories. When compared with RTE, they do a very good job for the number of people they have and indeed provide a welcome alternative tv news source to RTE, so the "boycott TV3" brigade are way off the mark. (In my opinion, the TV3 news room and the Vincent Browne team have been more balanced in their coverage of the recent public sector strike and NAMA for example. They sought a wider variety of opinions rather than just the same tired old economists and politicians. It should also be remembered that the board of RTE are government appointed so TV3 is a vital alternative voice. )

On the matter of Mr. Linehan's illness, it is of national interest. He chose to take up public office, for which there are many advantages. One of the downsides of public office is that you are subject to intense media scrutiny.
Mr. Linehan is in charge of the department of finance at a time when the deficit is 22 billion. The banks are going to have to be nationalised in the next couple of months because of his failed NAMA initative. It is of relevance to every man woman and child that the person responsible for overseeing the department of finance is not likely to be in a fit state to do this job over the next couple of weeks, not to mention months. This is why I believe that TV3 were correct in giving an indication that the illness was at best very debilitating. The logical conclusion is that it was not possible to break the story without giving details of his illness. Prof. Crowne spoke very generally about pancreatic cancer but did not discuss Mr. Lenihan's case directly, so what are people giving out about?

It is becoming clear that the government are trying to buy time now by expressions of outrage against TV3. It looks as if Cowen will again baulk at making a quick decision. The commerical markets are open for business tomorrow and the government's inaction can only contribute uncertainty. Why has no RTE journalist put the hard questions? On monday's radio news, the junior minister for health was the closest thing to a government spokesman and he was just asked for his reaction to TV3 releasing the story by the by.

As for Mr. Lenihan's performance in office, I think he will be seen to have made some terrible mistakes, but the biggest of all will be NAMA. A significant portion of the national debt will be directly attributable to Mr. Linehan's decision not to pay current commercial rates for properties that are being included in his disasterous NAMA initative. The goverment will pay 70% of a "notional value" of the properties. This notional value is calculated using the capital value of the loan plus any interest accrued. Considering that these are bad loans to begin with, they will have significant interest accumulated. The question is why include this interest in the notional value calculation? This will cost the taxpayer billions for no good reason other than to improve the banks balance sheet. We were told that by paying more we would get the banks lending again. This has already been proven incorrect (talk to anybody in business) and will be confirmed by nationalisation before the middle of 2010.

Another bad decision was to guarantee Anglo Irish in the first place. I would be less critical here - at the time, there was a compelling argument being made that we could have another Lehman on our hands if we didn't cover Anglo Irish. However, ultimately it turned out to be the incorrect decision. Another few billion of an error. Wrong decision. Not good enough.

[The Zurich Connection]

TV3 were correct to do what they did and should not be bullied or put up with being bullied by desperate politicians seeking a distraction or a dopey public who think fair media should go out on St Stephens Day just because it's a church holiday.

FF will milk this and play the victim knowing full well that at least 50% of gombeens will swallow it.

[The Zurich Connection]

Happy xmas Tone.

Onwards and upwards for next year. Who'll blink first


Likewise. Have a great Santa time!





























*you'll blink first* :cool:

[The Zurich Connection]

[QUOTE=Musical Paper Boy;3084245]Nice suit tony

Always. It is one of life's truths. Look good, feel good.


Suck it up dopey.:cool:

[The Black Knight]

Very sad that he has pancreatic cancer. He is one of the only ministers the I like in Government at the moment.

Mind you, it's not always terminal. Just look at Steve Jobs and he is still plugging away a five years later. He has islet cell neuroendocrine tumor though, which although far less aggressive, is very rare.

[KolaKubes]

What I've found curious is the Lenihan driven "do the right thing" attitude while his counterparts in Britain have their thumb up their hole over staggering and mounting debt.

I'm wondering were health concerns at the heart of his moving away from the usual abject Fianna Fáil populism.

[Haro]

You truly are a horrible human being, funny how you speak of how the man had no regard or compassion when doing his job yet you do the exact same thing when talking about the same man with a serious illness. Is that hypocrisy I can smell?

There is no logic or intellectual honesty in your words.

[Brian Capture]

Haro: should be Chinese.

He would fit in well.

[Mossybanks]

Also - the whole problem with Irish culture is that people with money and power are not held sufficiently accountable for their actions. I would then suggest that those trying to "leave politics out of this" are part of the problem.

Says the stupid cunt who wants us to spend a fortune paying for hospitals in every fucking backwood of clare. Or would you prefer a full time a&E ward in every home more than 30 km away from Limerick?

Come back to us when you have an idea that makes sense, rather than some socialist 1970s rant, you fucking midwestern mucksavage cunt.

Fuck arguments, give us some facts about the "ambulance on the way to Limerick."

All ye bleeding hearts are all the same: long on rhetoric, short on facts.

[Haro]

Says the stupid cunt who wants us to spend a fortune paying for hospitals in every fucking backwood of clare. Or would you prefer a full time a&E ward in every home more than 30 km away from Limerick?

Come back to us when you have an idea that makes sense, rather than some socialist 1970s rant, you fucking midwestern mucksavage cunt.

Fuck arguments, give us some facts about the "ambulance on the way to Limerick."

All ye bleeding hearts are all the same: long on rhetoric, short on facts.


Jesus christ someone woke up on the wrong side of the political spectrum this morning.

How is Ennis "every fucking backwood of Clare"? It was the Information Age town at one point, how the mighty have fallen. Limerick is ALREADY packed to the brim and you're forgetting how many people have the Ennis hospital as the closest to them from even outside of Clare.

Obviously it was sustainable before for years and years, and now all of a sudden you're acting like I'm living in a fairytale because I think it should be kept open? If the country wasn't so full of swindling fuckers maybe we'd get somewhere.

This is exactly my problem with the BUDGET WAS FUCKING AWESOME OH GOD OH GOD I WANT TO RAPE A PUBLIC SERVANT AND CUM ALL OVER THEIR FACE WITH A KNIFE OH FUCK AHH I'M CUMMING AHAHH side of this debate.

[ProfessorPwn]

Says the stupid cunt who wants us to spend a fortune paying for hospitals in every fucking backwood of clare. Or would you prefer a full time a&E ward in every home more than 30 km away from Limerick?

Come back to us when you have an idea that makes sense, rather than some socialist 1970s rant, you fucking midwestern mucksavage cunt.

Fuck arguments, give us some facts about the "ambulance on the way to Limerick."

All ye bleeding hearts are all the same: long on rhetoric, short on facts.

rattled

[ProfessorPwn]

Jesus christ someone woke up on the wrong side of the political spectrum this morning.

How is Ennis "every fucking backwood of Clare"? It was the Information Age town at one point, how the mighty have fallen. Limerick is ALREADY packed to the brim and you're forgetting how many people have the Ennis hospital as the closest to them from even outside of Clare.

Obviously it was sustainable before for years and years, and now all of a sudden you're acting like I'm living in a fairytale because I think it should be kept open? If the country wasn't so full of swindling fuckers maybe we'd get somewhere.

This is exactly my problem with the BUDGET WAS FUCKING AWESOME OH GOD OH GOD I WANT TO RAPE A PUBLIC SERVANT AND CUM ALL OVER THEIR FACE WITH A KNIFE OH FUCK AHH I'M CUMMING AHAHH side of this debate.

rattled

[POL]

mossy and haro rattled to the core

[rebelicecreamman]

mossy and haro rattled to the core

Feck off back to the ADHD forum.

[Pontipine]

Says the stupid cunt who wants us to spend a fortune paying for hospitals in every fucking backwood of clare. Or would you prefer a full time a&E ward in every home more than 30 km away from Limerick?

Come back to us when you have an idea that makes sense, rather than some socialist 1970s rant, you fucking midwestern mucksavage cunt.

Fuck arguments, give us some facts about the "ambulance on the way to Limerick."

All ye bleeding hearts are all the same: long on rhetoric, short on facts.

You really are some fucking ejit.

And an ignorant one at that.

[babybliss]

Feck off back to the ADHD forum.
rattled!;)

[rebelicecreamman]

rattled!;)

Is there a hole in the ADHD forum fence this morning. Someone call security!:p

[babybliss]

Is there a hole in the ADHD forum fence this morning. Someone call security!:p
:lol!::lol!::lol!:

[Murdock]

People were saying he was doing a good job/ he was the only capable minister etc. before his illness. I think his performance has been very mixed. He's a confident and verbose speaker and hasn't made a massive amount of gaffes, which makes him look good in a lot of people's eyes as expectations have been so drastically lowered by the fuck-ups of his colleagues. I say he's been mixed, because on the one hand he stood up to the public sector unions (when BIFFO was about to cave in). On the other hand, he didn't raise taxes by a single cent on the wealthy in the last budget, despite slashing special needs assistants and carer's allowance for the disabled etc. And worst of all in my opinion, he has introduced NAMA, which will bleed the country dry, and generally bent over backwards for the banks and has left the guys who were in charge of them off almost scot-free. Around 50% of the NAMA money will go to rescue the tiny Irish Nationwide and Anglo Irish. Why they weren't just let go, I don't understand. Overall, the minuses outweigh the plusses. As FF politicians go, he's a pretty good one though.

All of that aside, on a personal level I feel sorry for him and his family. It's a terrible disease. And I hope he manages to get over it, although the odds may not be on his side.
Haro, you have come across as a heartless, spiteful cunt in this thread.

[Mick Lyons]

Is there a hole in the ADHD forum fence this morning. Someone call security!:p

Heh heh. :D
I lol'd.

[Haro]

People were saying he was doing a good job/ he was the only capable minister etc. before his illness.

But these were mostly the same people trying to stick it to the public servants, who know nothing about economics or arguing.

NAMA isn't doing so awesome is it?

Haro, you have come across as a heartless, spiteful cunt in this thread.

Of course you'd think that. Note how every single one of these comments is an aggressive one line stab without any backing. Knee jerk reaction.

[edhead]

Biffo must be licking his blister sown cow lips........

General election in 2 1/2 yrs (?, not sure exactly), chances are with Shrek leading the charges,well - its like a lead balloon with the backbenchers, just a guess.

[Murdock]

But these were mostly the same people trying to stick it to the public servants, who know nothing about economics or arguing.

NAMA isn't doing so awesome is it?

Of course you'd think that. Note how every single one of these comments is an aggressive one line stab without any backing. Knee jerk reaction.

Which is obviously what you are and explains the source of your twisted bitterness. We have one of the most overpaid public sectors in Europe. He was right to cut yer pay, so suck it up.

I just said NAMA is a mistake.

What are you on about, you dope? They don't need any backing when you have already provided ample evidence of your cuntishness through your posts in this thread.

[Haro]

Which is obviously what you are and explains the source of your twisted bitterness. We have one of the most overpaid public sectors in Europe. He was right to cut yer pay, so suck it up.

Yeah, I thought as much. Amazing how vicious the Irish people are towards their public servants. It's not as if you didn't have the option. The government are having a right laugh at how they've set the workers against each other. Amazing how thick some people are that even the eejits in the Dail can manipulate them.

[Murdock]

Yeah, I thought as much. Amazing how vicious the Irish people are towards their public servants. It's not as if you didn't have the option. The government are having a right laugh at how they've set the workers against each other. Amazing how thick some people are that even the eejits in the Dail can manipulate them.

Poor Haro-y :(
He now has to get by on a meagre 55,000 a year for pushing (really heavy) pens around a desk.
:(

[diar2me]

But these were mostly the same people trying to stick it to the public servants, who know nothing about economics or arguing.

NAMA isn't doing so awesome is it?



Of course you'd think that. Note how every single one of these comments is an aggressive one line stab without any backing. Knee jerk reaction.

You come across as some clown. Know nothing about economics is it? Does not knowing anything about it include studying economics you muppet!

[Haro]

Well given how a lot of "economists" we have these days are clueless eejits then I'd say it's very possible yes. Economics isn't a solid science so it leaves a lot of room for bullshit artists.

Also, I'm going to say that a few of the people here I'm arguing with are complete unbelievable cunts trying to put on a "human" face. They know inside they're vicious, evil and malicious so if they can find someone to look better than they can feel like they're a worthwhile person for a few minutes. This is unfortunately true of a lot of people.

[Langer Dan]

Well given how a lot of "economists" we have these days are clueless eejits then I'd say it's very possible yes. Economics isn't a solid science so it leaves a lot of room for bullshit artists.

Also, I'm going to say that a few of the people here I'm arguing with are complete unbelievable cunts trying to put on a "human" face. They know inside they're vicious, evil and malicious so if they can find someone to look better than they can feel like they're a worthwhile person for a few minutes. This is unfortunately true of a lot of people.

Nah biy, you just sound like you've lost it really.

When you're resorting to torrents of abuse and foul language then it really is time to shut up.

[KD Langer]

listen haro. no one WANTS to see peoples standard of living go down.



no one wants to see pulic service cuts, dole cuts etc. BUT IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THIS. WE HAVE NO FUCKING MONEY.

[diar2me]

Well given how a lot of "economists" we have these days are clueless eejits then I'd say it's very possible yes. Economics isn't a solid science so it leaves a lot of room for bullshit artists.

Also, I'm going to say that a few of the people here I'm arguing with are complete unbelievable cunts trying to put on a "human" face. They know inside they're vicious, evil and malicious so if they can find someone to look better than they can feel like they're a worthwhile person for a few minutes. This is unfortunately true of a lot of people.

True, someone who studies ECONOMICS knows less than lets say the likes of you about ECONOMICS! :rolleyes:Are you listening to yourself?

[Haro]

True, someone who studies ECONOMICS knows less than lets say the likes of you about ECONOMICS! :rolleyes:Are you listening to yourself?

I know plenty of people who've studied economics who disagree with your way of thinking. What does it have to do with being a mindless suckup really anyway? I just pointing out that a lot of the people cling to Lenihan and the budget purely because they are extremely vicious towards public servants and are not genuinely considering the economics.

I also like this cost of living going down shit people keep saying. As far as I can see the price of oil/petrol has been rising. When that rises, everything else will soon follow.

listen haro. no one WANTS to see peoples standard of living go down.



no one wants to see pulic service cuts, dole cuts etc. BUT IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THIS. WE HAVE NO FUCKING MONEY.

Economics is never "That simple". Also, as has been said countless times our national debt is not at "insane" levels. Our personal debt is. If we had absolutely no money we wouldn't be seeing any buses out and about. Obviously we do have access to some money, so that's a stupid thing to say. Making cutbacks is not the only way to gain confidence from foreign lenders/investors. If we showed some competency and backbone as a nation then that's a good start. Also, just because cutbacks or changes need to be made does not mean the ones that were made were the wrong one. Have any of you taken the most basic class in logic even?

Honestly at the end of the day you're just a bunch of gobshites showing "sensitivity" you don't genuinely mean anyway. There are hundreds and thousands of people suffering as bad or worse than Mr. Linehan. However much you want to cum all over his face, a lot of people don't feel the same way so trying to get them to join in with forced sympathy is especially wrong.

Enjoy your Jade the Finance Minister.

[diar2me]

I know plenty of people who've studied economics who disagree with your way of thinking. What does it have to do with being a mindless suckup really anyway? I just pointing out that a lot of the people cling to Lenihan and the budget purely because they are extremely vicious towards public servants and are not genuinely considering the economics.

I also like this cost of living going down shit people keep saying. As far as I can see the price of oil/petrol has been rising. When that rises, everything else will soon follow.



Economics is never "That simple". Also, as has been said countless times our national debt is not at "insane" levels. Our personal debt is. If we had absolutely no money we wouldn't be seeing any buses out and about. Obviously we do have access to some money, so that's a stupid thing to say. Making cutbacks is not the only way to gain confidence from foreign lenders/investors. If we showed some competency and backbone as a nation then that's a good start. Also, just because cutbacks or changes need to be made does not mean the ones that were made were the wrong one. Have any of you taken the most basic class in logic even?

Honestly at the end of the day you're just a bunch of gobshites showing "sensitivity" you don't genuinely mean anyway. There are hundreds and thousands of people suffering as bad or worse than Mr. Linehan. However much you want to cum all over his face, a lot of people don't feel the same way so trying to get them to join in with forced sympathy is especially wrong.

Enjoy your Jade the Finance Minister.

You're scum after making that comment.

[KD Langer]

You're scum after making that comment.

he's a sick man D2M. a very sick man.

[might I say]

Having a sick relative I have nothing but sympathy for Brian Lenihan and his family .
But I cant help but think of the other families who anonymously deal with worse situations and whose plight is not helped by some of the ludicrous policy making and spending of present Govt .

The outright cynic in me hopes Mr lenihan and his family do not have to endure the extra upset of arriving at A&E and having to spend a weekend on a stretcher in a hall under strip lighting .

[Nellboy]

Jaysis, I read the first 6 pages of this thread and couldn't read on.

Some amount of misguided souls on the PROC forums. There's a reason I rarely post here any more. Talk about completely missing the point beyond belief.

I would say 'worst thread ever', but actually I've seen much worse here.

PROC FAIL!!!

[Haro]

You're scum after making that comment.

Nearly all your fucking comments are the exact same. I don't believe you really believe that for a second.

Borderline sociopaths trying to feel better than people with real emotions by pressuring them into a false pity party. Fucking ridiculous.

But I cant help but think of the other families who anonymously deal with worse situations and whose plight is not helped by some of the ludicrous policy making and spending of present Govt .

Exactly! My point for pages and pages eejits like diar2me seem to be ignoring. They call me insensitive because I'm not overly bothered about some overpaid twat dying, but I call them insensitive because they elevate him above all the others who are dying less comfortably(and more certainly).

[Corcaigh32]

Whole point was this thread wasn't elevating him above all others at all - you said it was. This thread just announced his diagnosis which was noone's business but his own til his statement tomorrow or the day after, given the Dáil is not in session.

I can understand your position, seeing as you are a public servant. I can't understand how you can't detach his budget from the prospect of him dying. Seeing as the thread has continued and you still choose to ignore or pretend not to understand the point I was making to you - let's look at the state of the nations finances and the ICTU's position before Christmas.

The country was losing a minimum of 400 million a week. Social partnership negotiating at the beginning of the tiger ensured that the gap between public sector pay and private sector pay would be bridged in return for efficiency improvements as well as performance reviews among other things. The benchmarking increases as they have been called have ALWAYS been paid. So much so, that now the gap between the public sector and the private sector is actually the other way around to the tune of 35%. Where is benchmarking now?

You have a guaranteed job. I don't. I didn't 3 years ago when an FDI multinational decided to up sticks and head for the Far East. I was lucky enough to find another job - something you will never have to worry about.

You have a guaranteed pension. I don't. My pension fund has been absolutely decimated in the last 3 years and other than making additional contributions which I cannot afford I will just have to grin and bear it. You do not have this problem.

So given you have a guaranteed job, with benchmarking and a guaranteed pension, you might understand how when the country is 400 million a week in debt the MAJORITY of employees who work in the private sector look to their fellow workers in the public sector and say "you have to take some of the pain with the rest of us". Instead you get David Begg and his ilk who threaten strike action and make statements like "we will no longer engage with the government and must now concentrate on bringing about a change in the government", who are 300,000 to make such a decision for the rest of us?

The government haven't pitted worker against worker, the unions have. We are not living in a world where the worker is being exploited anymore. You are not working in hideous conditions, no health and safety, 60 hours a week, no insurance........pub lic sector unions are about no more than screwing as much as they possibly can out of the public purse and we are not getting any value for money for our public services.

And no I am not talking about our front line emergency services, firemen, ambulance drivers and such, we all know the kind of stress filled horror they deal with all day every day. I am talking about your pen pusher in the office who "doesn't deal with those queries I'll have to transfer you" or "the office is closed between 12 and 2" or "your query is being dealt with as a matter of priority" and 3 weeks later nothing is done.

Now, you tell me, as a fellow Irish person, given the state of the nation, where I have said anything personal about you or attacked you or said anything nasty about you anywhere in this thread - you won't find it. I have simply said that this thread never did what you said it did, you have an axe to grind with the Minister for Finance, and that's understandable, but make a distinction between his position and the fact that he might not be here in 6 months time - if Dermot Ahern is Minister for Finance in 6 months time this argument will continue - the Lenihan family will still be able to read some of what you said.

[Funky Munky]

Whole point was this thread wasn't elevating him above all others at all - you said it was. This thread just announced his diagnosis which was noone's business but his own til his statement tomorrow or the day after, given the Dáil is not in session.

I can understand your position, seeing as you are a public servant. I can't understand how you can't detach his budget from the prospect of him dying. Seeing as the thread has continued and you still choose to ignore or pretend not to understand the point I was making to you - let's look at the state of the nations finances and the ICTU's position before Christmas.

The country was losing a minimum of 400 million a week. Social partnership negotiating at the beginning of the tiger ensured that the gap between public sector pay and private sector pay would be bridged in return for efficiency improvements as well as performance reviews among other things. The benchmarking increases as they have been called have ALWAYS been paid. So much so, that now the gap between the public sector and the private sector is actually the other way around to the tune of 35%. Where is benchmarking now?

You have a guaranteed job. I don't. I didn't 3 years ago when an FDI multinational decided to up sticks and head for the Far East. I was lucky enough to find another job - something you will never have to worry about.

You have a guaranteed pension. I don't. My pension fund has been absolutely decimated in the last 3 years and other than making additional contributions which I cannot afford I will just have to grin and bear it. You do not have this problem.

So given you have a guaranteed job, with benchmarking and a guaranteed pension, you might understand how when the country is 400 million a week in debt the MAJORITY of employees who work in the private sector look to their fellow workers in the public sector and say "you have to take some of the pain with the rest of us". Instead you get David Begg and his ilk who threaten strike action and make statements like "we will no longer engage with the government and must now concentrate on bringing about a change in the government", who are 300,000 to make such a decision for the rest of us?

The government haven't pitted worker against worker, the unions have. We are not living in a world where the worker is being exploited anymore. You are not working in hideous conditions, no health and safety, 60 hours a week, no insurance........pub lic sector unions are about no more than screwing as much as they possibly can out of the public purse and we are not getting any value for money for our public services.

And no I am not talking about our front line emergency services, firemen, ambulance drivers and such, we all know the kind of stress filled horror they deal with all day every day. I am talking about your pen pusher in the office who "doesn't deal with those queries I'll have to transfer you" or "the office is closed between 12 and 2" or "your query is being dealt with as a matter of priority" and 3 weeks later nothing is done.

Now, you tell me, as a fellow Irish person, given the state of the nation, where I have said anything personal about you or attacked you or said anything nasty about you anywhere in this thread - you won't find it. I have simply said that this thread never did what you said it did, you have an axe to grind with the Minister for Finance, and that's understandable, but make a distinction between his position and the fact that he might not be here in 6 months time - if Dermot Ahern is Minister for Finance in 6 months time this argument will continue - the Lenihan family will still be able to read some of what you said.



FYI C32...Not being smart now or picky, but, there no ambulance drivers anymore in this country Corcaigh.. There used to be when the system was in place whereby there was a nurse and a driver.. They are all highly qualified paramedics now and believe you me there is a big difference...

[Corcaigh32]

OK sorry yes I know they are paramedics and I know there is a huge difference - point taken.

[Cannabis]

A few weeks ago he was a clown and now hes a great man. Jade goody syndrome. Unlucky he got cancer wouldnt wish it on anybody but hes a shite politician whos playing his part in fucking up the country and gets no respect from me just cause he has cancer.

[Langer Dan]

A few weeks ago he was a clown and now hes a great man. Jade goody syndrome. Unlucky he got cancer wouldnt wish it on anybody but hes a shite politician whos playing his part in fucking up the country and gets no respect from me just cause he has cancer.

Sorry but that's simply not correct. He's only held a cabinet position since 2007 so how he 'played his part in f**king up the country' is questionable at best.

[Corcaigh32]

Did I say he was a great man?

[Professor Piehead]

Sorry but that's simply not correct. He's only held a cabinet position since 2007 so how he 'played his part in f**king up the country' is questionable at best.

Being a Fianna Fail TD might have helped a wee bit. :p

[Langer Dan]

Being a Fianna Fail TD might have helped a wee bit. :p

Blaming a junior minister for Bertie, Cowen and Mcreevy's sheer ineptitude is a bit much.

[KD Langer]

A few weeks ago he was a clown and now hes a great man. Jade goody syndrome. Unlucky he got cancer wouldnt wish it on anybody but hes a shite politician whos playing his part in fucking up the country and gets no respect from me just cause he has cancer.

maybe he is a shite politician.


maybe he shouldn't get respect for his politics.cancer doesn't come into that.




but on a human level he deserves compassion and sympathy.


which is what some people(on this thread anyway) cannot seem to understand.

[Professor Piehead]

maybe he is a shite politician.


maybe he shouldn't get respect for his politics.cancer doesn't come into that.




but on a human level he deserves compassion and sympathy.


which is what some people(on this thread anyway) cannot seem to understand.

Possibly the only decent one in a rotten barrel.

Good luck to the man.

[frankeechops]

Lenihan plans to remain in office

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has confirmed that he intends to continue in office after being diagnosed with cancer.In a statement, Mr Lenihan confirmed that he will need chemotherapy and possibly radiotherapy after cancerous tissue was removed from the entrance to his pancreas.However, he said his doctors say he is fit to continue to fulfil his duties.

The Minister's health has been the subject of intense speculation since it was reported on St Stephen's Day that he had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.Today, back at his desk after the Christmas break, Mr Lenihan issued a statement confirming that he will require treatment.
Crucially though, he says his pancreas is now functioning normally, and his doctors advise that he is fit to continue his duties. Mr Lenihan said he will not be accepting speaking engagements during his treatment, but will continue to carry out his duties in the Department, in the Dáil, and at Cabinet.

He said he was aware of the importance of his office, and that if the position were to change, he would be the first to recognise it. The Minister also thanked the public for their many messages of support.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0104/lenihanb.html

[ProfessorPwn]

Business as usual then......

Lenihan defends pay cuts move
JASON MICHAEL

The Minister for Finance today defended the decision taken by his department before Christmas to minimise the pay cuts for senior civil servants by counting performance bonuses as pay.

Speaking this morning, Brian Lenihan said the issue concerned a "very restricted grade" of assistant secretaries and equivalent grade in some other organisations.

"The bonuses were abolished already, and if you take the effect on them of a much higher-than-average pension levy, the abolition of bonuses, and the full impact of the recent cut . . . [this] would have left them more disadvantaged than any other public servant.

"This particular grade were found not to be paid more than in any other country, and a reduction has been imposed upon them, which it was believed . . . was a reasonable reduction for them," the Minister said.

"The Government took the view that it would be reasonable to make an exceptional arrangement for them, given all those anomalies. . . . There is no question of this being done in any clandestine way."

But Labour spokeswoman on finance Joan Burton said the Government's decision to apply a lower level of pay cut to certain senior civil servants was "immoral, unjust and legally dubious". She called for the decision to be revisited "at the earliest possible opportunity".

"The result of this decision will mean that some of the highest paid public servants in the state will suffer a cut of just 3 per cent in their basic pay, while low paid clerical officers will see their pay cut by 5 per cent. This approach will further undermine morale among low paid workers in the public service," Ms Burton said.

The Labour TD and Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton and intend raising the issue when the Dáil resumes on January 19th.

[KolaKubes]

Business as usual then......

Lenihan defends pay cuts move
JASON MICHAEL

The Minister for Finance today defended the decision taken by his department before Christmas to minimise the pay cuts for senior civil servants by counting performance bonuses as pay.

Speaking this morning, Brian Lenihan said the issue concerned a "very restricted grade" of assistant secretaries and equivalent grade in some other organisations.

"The bonuses were abolished already, and if you take the effect on them of a much higher-than-average pension levy, the abolition of bonuses, and the full impact of the recent cut . . . [this] would have left them more disadvantaged than any other public servant.

"This particular grade were found not to be paid more than in any other country, and a reduction has been imposed upon them, which it was believed . . . was a reasonable reduction for them," the Minister said.

"The Government took the view that it would be reasonable to make an exceptional arrangement for them, given all those anomalies. . . . There is no question of this being done in any clandestine way."

But Labour spokeswoman on finance Joan Burton said the Government's decision to apply a lower level of pay cut to certain senior civil servants was "immoral, unjust and legally dubious". She called for the decision to be revisited "at the earliest possible opportunity".

"The result of this decision will mean that some of the highest paid public servants in the state will suffer a cut of just 3 per cent in their basic pay, while low paid clerical officers will see their pay cut by 5 per cent. This approach will further undermine morale among low paid workers in the public service," Ms Burton said.

The Labour TD and Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton and intend raising the issue when the Dáil resumes on January 19th.

It's a disgrace.

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the less well off.

[ProfessorPwn]

It's a disgrace.

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the less well off.

FF looking after their base.

I wonder what diar2me makes of it

[ANVIL]

Unfortunately pancreatic cancer survival rates are very very low - with perhaps only 20 per cent making it to a year - and it's hard to see Lenihan being able to continue in his current job for long.

Which is a real shame because of all the people in Government he seems the one most willing to take the tough decisions which will not be just about the most recent Budget but for the next couple of years as well.

If that clown Cowen simply puts a puppet in his place the outlook will not be rosy.

Sympathy must go to Lenihan and his family but also praise to TV3 for breaking the news - they held on to it for a couple of days to give time for the family to come to terms with the medical news over Christmas.

It's nice to see some journalists not willing to be part of the cosy Dublin political establishment like the pisspoor RTE News.



It's normally the other way round but I'm not surprised to see the great
Kevin Myers back up my post in every single aspect.

He is one of the few voices in the Leinster House village prepared to call it like it is.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-the-abyss-beckons-after-ignorant-hysterical-lynching-of-tv3-news-1998938.html

[ProfessorPwn]

It's normally the other way round but I'm not surprised to see the great
Kevin Myers back up my post in every single aspect.

He is one of the few voices in the Leinster House village prepared to call it like it is.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-the-abyss-beckons-after-ignorant-hysterical-lynching-of-tv3-news-1998938.html

I'd have to disagree with you AnviY. I have respect for Lenny as a politician that has conviction, which somewhat unusual in mainstream politics in this country. He has gotten a fair bit wrong and Nama might yet prove to be the saviour of the country or the cause of its downfall. The jury is very much out on him imo.

He also screwed the poorer members of society in favour of the rich and only emphasised this further by his actions a few days before xmas. He's a clever guy, an excellent debater and is always on message but I think his greatness is being overblown at the moment. Though sitting next to Cowen he looks like combination of JFK and Adam Smith

[Corcaigh32]

So if Joan Burton says something it's gospel?

[ProfessorPwn]

So if Joan Burton says something it's gospel?

What?

[Corcaigh32]

The last 6 or 7 posts are based on a quote of what Joan Burton said about Brian Lenihan's decision on pay cuts in his department. Without question, everyone is taking her statement as fact as opposed to what she would obviously say, being an opposition Labour spokesperson.

It's not even whether she is right or wrong that irks, it's the obvious double standard in the thread. Politicians are self-serving, lying, country-ruining bastards unless they are Labour spokespeople. She is simply doing exactly the same as Lenihan is doing.

[The Zurich Connection]

So if Joan Burton says something it's gospel?


No, but she's a lot more credible than anyone in FF. Anyone with an ounce of honesty or respect for Ireland would no longer be a member of such a stinkingly crooked party.

[Corcaigh32]

Thanks for proving my poing TZC. She is a politician just the same and I would say certainly no more credible than Lenihan, taking your point on Cullen, Roche or some of the others.

[Langer Dan]

No, but she's a lot more credible than anyone in FF. Anyone with an ounce of honesty or respect for Ireland would no longer be a member of such a stinkingly crooked party.

:lol:

Yeah coz Labour's staunch support of the 12 day holiday plan just did wonders for their 'credibility'.

Labour are a focking joke.

[ProfessorPwn]

The last 6 or 7 posts are based on a quote of what Joan Burton said about Brian Lenihan's decision on pay cuts in his department. Without question, everyone is taking her statement as fact as opposed to what she would obviously say, being an opposition Labour spokesperson.

It's not even whether she is right or wrong that irks, it's the obvious double standard in the thread. Politicians are self-serving, lying, country-ruining bastards unless they are Labour spokespeople. She is simply doing exactly the same as Lenihan is doing.

Are you on drugs?

What has Labour got to do with this?

Play the ball. Lenihan admits he made special arrangments for this group. A group of people on serious bobs. This at a time when he slashes social welfare and lower paid members of the public sector.

[Corcaigh32]

Not on drugs, Prof.
It has been perfectly ok to play the man all the way through this thread, a point I have been highlighting all the way through while trying to play the ball. The double standard here is glaring.

I have no issue with Joan Burton personally, I think she does her job quite well. I know people here are Labour supporters and others are not and that's fine too. But a highlighted quote from Joan Burton is what we are talking about, without any detailed analysis of the rationale for what Lenihan did, rightly or wrongly. No-one is slating her though.

[frankeechops]

Are you on drugs?

What has Labour got to do with this?

Play the ball. Lenihan admits he made special arrangments for this group. A group of people on serious bobs. This at a time when he slashes social welfare and lower paid members of the public sector.

It was Joan Burton who gave the quote to that bastion of free thought, The Indo. What she neglected to mention was if it was calculated on the same Basis the pay cut at this Grade(Grade 8 AFAIK I'm open to correction) would have been 22%. While I believe that this grade should have taken a larger cut percentage wise, The unions would have fucked this up by saying thta he was targeting the poor old civil servants.

So if you want to blame anyone for this, blame David Begg, Defender of the Little man.

[ProfessorPwn]

It was Joan Burton who gave the quote to that bastion of free thought, The Indo. What she neglected to mention was if it was calculated on the same Basis the pay cut at this Grade(Grade 8 AFAIK I'm open to correction) would have been 22%. While I believe that this grade should have taken a larger cut percentage wise, The unions would have fucked this up by saying thta he was targeting the poor old civil servants.

So if you want to blame anyone for this, blame David Begg, Defender of the Little man.

The unions could say what they wanted. Lenny pwned them to the ends of the earth only a few weeks before. What would they have done?

Fianna Fail have been exposed here and Lenny has been exposed. But Frankee, we all know you were a member of the FF party up to very recently, and probably still are.

Bottom line here is that Lenny sought to protect the rich again.

[Corcaigh32]

And on the point I made in my last post Prof?

[ProfessorPwn]

But a highlighted quote from Joan Burton is what we are talking about, without any detailed analysis of the rationale for what Lenihan did, rightly or wrongly. No-one is slating her though.

Seriously.

Forget the fact that it is from Burton and read Lennys rationale.

What do you make of that?

[diar2me]

FF looking after their base.

I wonder what diar2me makes of it

I think it's wrong. I have made no bones about the fact that I think the highest paid in the public sector should pay the most. Am I somehow a Fianna Fail supporter now? No!

I am anything but a Fianna Fail supporter, but, credit where credit is due. I have never ever said that Brian Lenihan is doing a bad job, quite the contrary. And I believed that before this ridiculous thread even started. He has admitted he made mistakes in the vat rate showing he is honourable, he has told the unions and Cowen where to go when addressing the public sector, which in my books is just gold and last but not least he has in my estimation done a good job for a guy with a poisoned chalice. So to all the gobshites like Haro and Prof PWN fuck off with your scathing and quite retarded remarks that I am some sort of hypocrite for extending my sympathy to a good politician and very sick man. God knows if we had a few more like him in government we would be doing all right!

[ProfessorPwn]

The amount of braindead lads around here is staggering to be quite honest.

Staggering.

[Corcaigh32]

The bonuses were abolished already, and if you take the effect on them of a much higher-than-average pension levy, the abolition of bonuses, and the full impact of the recent cut . . . [this] would have left them more disadvantaged than any other public servant.

"This particular grade were found not to be paid more than in any other country, and a reduction has been imposed upon them, which it was believed . . . was a reasonable reduction for them," the Minister said.

"The Government took the view that it would be reasonable to make an exceptional arrangement for them, given all those anomalies. . . . There is no question of this being done in any clandestine way."

To be honest Prof, I don't know. It doesn't make sense for him to open himself up to this kind of attack in his very own department if he didn't think it was defensible, as he must have known it would come out. Prudence would have told him not take the chance under the circumstances and given the nature of the budget.

I still think there is an obvious double standard being applied though.

[ProfessorPwn]

The bonuses were abolished already, and if you take the effect on them of a much higher-than-average pension levy, the abolition of bonuses, and the full impact of the recent cut . . . [this] would have left them more disadvantaged than any other public servant.

"This particular grade were found not to be paid more than in any other country, and a reduction has been imposed upon them, which it was believed . . . was a reasonable reduction for them," the Minister said.

"The Government took the view that it would be reasonable to make an exceptional arrangement for them, given all those anomalies. . . . There is no question of this being done in any clandestine way."

To be honest Prof, I don't know. It doesn't make sense for him to open himself up to this kind of attack in his very own department if he didn't think it was defensible, as he must have known it would come out. Prudence would have told him not take the chance under the circumstances and given the nature of the budget.

I still think there is an obvious double standard being applied though.

It is staggering that he is using his very own pension levy as an excuse to protect his buddies. If he is introducing caveats he should have started with those being hit hardest and on the lowest pay. The notion of fairness just doesn't come into with this govt and thats why people resist them at every turn.

[C Montgomery Bones]

No, but she's a lot more credible than anyone in FF. Anyone with an ounce of honesty or respect for Ireland would no longer be a member of such a stinkingly crooked party.

She is only credible as she has never had to back up what she proposes with actions. She has never delivered a budget, never had to deal with a banking crises, never had to deal with international bond markets and never had to deal with a gaping hole in the public finances.
All she has had to do is sit on her side of the house and belittle and put down every idea the government has had be it good or bad.
Now i am no fan of FF and i cannot stand bertie but Lenihan has been the most impressive figure in FF over the past 18 months and he is the only one with credibility, credibility he has backed up with actions. His last 2 budgets have served the purpose of solving our economic woes and restoring public finances which they will help to do. These budgets will get him little votes or make him any friends but he made the difficult decisions that needed to be made, there done and soon we will see the results. With burton and co we would still be trying to figure out just how many days off we need to take to save the country.

[frankeechops]

The amount of braindead lads around here is staggering to be quite honest.

Staggering.

So do you Honestly think that Richard Bruton would have delivered a different Budget?

[C Montgomery Bones]

So do you Honestly think that Richard Bruton would have delivered a different Budget?

Exactly!

It would have been more or less the same budget but maybe in different wrapping.

There is a year until the next budget so the govt should now try and tackle the reform of the PS.

[ProfessorPwn]

So do you Honestly think that Richard Bruton would have delivered a different Budget?

The aim of the budget was to save 4 billion. Lenny pulled this off by mainly focusing on the lower paid in the public sector and those on social welfare. I lost virtually nothing in the last budget. Fair enough. Thats his perogative, I'm just pointing that out.

I would have hoped that Richard Bruton would have taken a slightly different route and tried to be more fair minded as it was certainly possible, we'll never know. WHat I do know is that Lenny only confirmed the accusations being thrown at him post budget that he was buffering his pals when he brought in special rules to protect them.

Its what Fianna Fail do. YOu should know that better than most having been a member of the party

[ProfessorPwn]

Exactly!

It would have been more or less the same budget but maybe in different wrapping.
.

Untrue.

[frankeechops]

Untrue.

Do you think he would have Raised Taxes instead? Seriously?

The Country nearly melted when VAT went up 0.5%, imagine if they raised income tax. Then cut pay. Civil fucking war is what we'd have then.

Bruton would have hit the exact same places, probably would have lowered Tax bands this year instead of next and all.

[ProfessorPwn]

Do you think he would have Raised Taxes instead? Seriously?

The Country nearly melted when VAT went up 0.5%, imagine if they raised income tax. Then cut pay. Civil fucking war is what we'd have then.

Bruton would have hit the exact same places, probably would have lowered Tax bands this year instead of next and all.

conjecture

[frankeechops]

conjecture

He said in his pre budget submission that he would raise Taxes. How is that conjecture? You know as well as I that raising taxes in an economic slump is the quickest way to make the slide worse.

[Corcaigh32]

Ah lads lads lads - for once I agree with Prof.

It's untrue and why? Because for Bruton to be in government he would have to be in coalition with Labour who would insist on Finance and would not have let him do what FG would do. Labour would not cut PS pay. So it is easy for Bruton to criticise all he wants he will never be Minister for Finance unless FG are in an FF style government with small parties.

[ProfessorPwn]

Ah lads lads lads - for once I agree with Prof.

It's untrue and why? Because for Bruton to be in government he would have to be in coalition with Labour who would insist on Finance and would not have let him do what FG would do. Labour would not cut PS pay. So it is easy for Bruton to criticise all he wants he will never be Minister for Finance unless FG are in an FF style government with small parties.

conjecture
possibly true
conjecture

[ProfessorPwn]

He said in his pre budget submission that he would raise Taxes. How is that conjecture? You know as well as I that raising taxes in an economic slump is the quickest way to make the slide worse.

Interesting, can you provide me with the link?

Though we are gone way off point, the point being that Lenny cosseted his butties and stuck the knife into the poor.

[Corcaigh32]

conjecture
possibly true
conjecture

Gilmore stated the second as Labour policy.

[frankeechops]

Interesting, can you provide me with the link?

Though we are gone way off point, the point being that Lenny cosseted his butties and stuck the knife into the poor.

Not the actual submission, You'll get the gist
http://www.irishexaminer.co m/ireland/kfauqlkfojid/rss2/

[ProfessorPwn]

Not the actual submission, You'll get the gist
http://www.irishexaminer.co m/ireland/kfauqlkfojid/rss2/

593 million in taxes on the rich. Very doable. They are only hording it anyway.

So anyway Frankee, what do you make of Lenny only taking 3% on a bunch of lads on over 150K?

[frankeechops]

593 million in taxes on the rich. Very doable. They are only hording it anyway.

So anyway Frankee, what do you make of Lenny only taking 3% on a bunch of lads on over 150K?

I think its Disgrace, But I said earlier, I think this has more to do with the unions and the need for legislation than his cosying up to his Buddies.

And get you facts right only 2 of that Grade are earning that much. The scale is 84 to 120ish.

[ProfessorPwn]

I think its Disgrace, But I said earlier, I think this has more to do with the unions and the need for legislation than his cosying up to his Buddies.

And get you facts right only 2 of that Grade are earning that much. The scale is 84 to 120ish.

What do you think the unions would do?

Seriously. That you can even claim this as the reason is preposterous and leads me to believe you are still a member of Fianna Fail. Are you?

[frankeechops]

What do you think the unions would do?

Seriously. That you can even claim this as the reason is preposterous and leads me to believe you are still a member of Fianna Fail. Are you?

The unions are still prepared to go on strike over the cuts that have already been inflicted on us. They would see it as the singling out of one particular sector to take a higher proportion than was fair. In all honesty while this grade deserves a higher(% wise) cut than lower grades, 22% would be asking a bit much.

[ProfessorPwn]

The unions are still prepared to go on strike over the cuts that have already been inflicted on us. They would see it as the singling out of one particular sector to take a higher proportion than was fair. In all honesty while this grade deserves a higher(% wise) cut than lower grades, 22% would be asking a bit much.

Is he counting the pesion levy in this 22%?

It seems like he is.

[frankeechops]

Is he counting the pesion levy in this 22%?

It seems like he is.

That, lamps, I in all honesty don't know .

[ProfessorPwn]

That, lamps, I in all honesty don't know .

In his justification he seems to be bundling their bonuses and levies in to get it up to 22%. Same old Fianna Fail.

[longbigandjuicy]

Is he still alive?

[Haro]

If he's so ill that we should all have sympathy for him, why is he still there?

Lenny pulled this off by mainly focusing on the lower paid in the public sector and those on social welfare. I lost virtually nothing in the last budget.

This is my problem with the budget. Most of the people applauding it obviously weren't all that affected.

[Haro]

Are you on drugs?

What has Labour got to do with this?

Play the ball. Lenihan admits he made special arrangments for this group. A group of people on serious bobs. This at a time when he slashes social welfare and lower paid members of the public sector.

This really disgusts me. The fact that people can defend the budget as necessary when it lets off the people we should really be taking the money off just shows how fucking thick people can be. What can they be possibly doing to earn 150,000 a year or more? That's more than Barrack Obama gets. You find a lot of the time too the people on these kinds of wages are the ones that don't work the hardest.

[Corcaigh32]

So no answer to post #192 Haro?

[Haro]

I'm not a public servant for a start.

[diar2me]

I'm not a public servant for a start.

"Good" answer! Very comprehensive!