Libertarian Group

[axlcinema]

Thinking about having a meet up in Cork, a place where we can meet and talk to people with similar views.
Anybody interested ?

[Jaco]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a libertarian group?

[hiawatha]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a libertarian group?

They loan books to people.

[Bin Hex 12]

They loan books to people.

shusssh!

[Mossybanks]

http://www.lp.org/

[Pheas]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a libertarian group?

They're people who think that people work like this:

http://www.elliott-school.org.uk/Departments/6formSub/Cartesian%20theatre. gif

[ubernerd]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a libertarian group?

Rich anarchists with guns that don't like to share.

[starchaser]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a libertarian group?

have a listen to "free talk live"..

http://freetalklive.com/

another one to listen to is Mark Levin...
http://www.marklevinshow.co m/home.asp

podcast feed: http://www.marklevinshow.co m/rss/ilevin.xml


and a book to read is Levin's "Liberty and Tyranny"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_and_Tyranny: _A_Conservative_Mani festo#Liberty_and_Ty ranny:_A_Conservativ e_Manifesto

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/Liberty_and_Tyranny. jpg

[starchaser]

Rich anarchists with guns that don't like to share.

what do you define as "share"?

oh.. so you think that the government coming at you at the barrel of gun is "sharing"?

how nice. i'm sure you'll fit right into North Korea. i think you should go there. one way.

[Henry Hill]

As far as I know Bill Maher (when he's not doing comedy), Jesse Ventura and Ron Paul (well he's a repubican but has their attitude) are libertarions. Have a look at their youtube video's. if people like them ran the world it'd be a much better place

[KolaKubes]

I hate them and hope to buy bigger guns than their's.

[GisforGrenade]

Ya thats what this country needs, libertarians, because obviously the welfare system is evil and laissez faire capitalism will save us from our economic woes.

[jd26]

As far as I know Bill Maher (when he's not doing comedy), Jesse Ventura and Ron Paul (well he's a repubican but has their attitude) are libertarions. Have a look at their youtube video's. if people like them ran the world it'd be a much better place

No, it wouldn't

Just like the far left, it's easy to sound like you're right when there's no chance of putting anything into practice (and governor of Minnesota definitely doesn't count).

[DogTheLangerHunter]

The South Park lads are Libertarians.

[Jaco]

Is it the new scientology?

[KolaKubes]

Ya thats what this country needs, libertarians, because obviously the welfare system is evil and laissez faire capitalism will save us from our economic woes.

When has laissez faire capitalism ever done to you recently? :lol:

The South Park lads are Libertarians.

They are.

[axlcinema]

Guys I really didn't want to start a flame war here, I'm just interested in organising a few meetings between fellow libertarians, I've been to a few socialist meetings in Cork, i don't know if it's just me or are they growing in numbers ?
Anyway some speeches would be great to get educate people about laissez faire capitalism.

Also I just want to point out that we are not against sharing at all, we are against stealing, sorry I meant taxes. No simply put charity by choice is good, charity by force is bad, we're against coercion basically.

[jd26]

But if you're against taxes, you're against government.
- against the provision of garda services to keep you safe
- against the provision of any public health services, even to those with chronic sicknesses and disabilities who couldn't possibly work to pay for insurance
- against a public road network
- against a public sewerage network

None of that stuff can be provided without taxes.

[KolaKubes]

Guys I really didn't want to start a flame war here, I'm just interested in organising a few meetings between fellow libertarians, I've been to a few socialist meetings in Cork, i don't know if it's just me or are they growing in numbers ?
Anyway some speeches would be great to get educate people about laissez faire capitalism.

Also I just want to point out that we are not against sharing at all, we are against stealing, sorry I meant taxes. No simply put charity by choice is good, charity by force is bad, we're against coercion basically.

Super.

So the health service, gardai, firemen are a "charity"?

How would this society work in practice?

Given its similarity to how the Mongolian Empire was organised.

[Murdock]

It's a truly idiotic ideology.

[Henry Hill]

I'm pretty liberal in general. But you hear so much bullshit when it comes to reducing the welfare state in Ireland. People were on joe duffy saying how can anyone live on less than €204 a week. It is possible to live on less than a €100 a week if you get rent allowance and a medical card.
If less was spent on welfare and public sector salaries, they should get the market rate, we could cut vat or even get rid of it. It raises €10billion a year. If it was cut then all employers could cut wages without affecting the standard of living, and drastically improve our competitiveness

The US practises laissez faire economics more than anywhere else and what ever you say amount inequalities in soceity it has always provided a very high level of employment for its people and it has a GDP per capita of over $40000

[Henry Hill]

Super.

So the health service, gardai, firemen are a "charity"?

How would this society work in practice?

Given its similarity to how the Mongolian Empire was organised.

The fact remains the welfare state is currently bankrupting the country, and such policies were ever in place by an irish government obviously the gardai and fire service would not be privatised. The Health Service should be privatisated, its a joke in Ireland. People should be paid the market rates

[donpoblok]

I'm pretty liberal in general. But you hear so much bullshit when it comes to reducing the welfare state in Ireland. People were on joe duffy saying how can anyone live on less than €204 a week. It is possible to live on less than a €100 a week if you get rent allowance and a medical card.
If less was spent on welfare and public sector salaries, they should get the market rate, we could cut vat or even get rid of it. It raises €10billion a year. If it was cut then all employers could cut wages without affecting the standard of living, and drastically improve our competitiveness

The US practises laissez faire economics more than anywhere else and what ever you say amount inequalities in soceity it has always provided a very high level of employment for its people and it has a GDP per capita of over $40000

if you want to start a group discussing this kind of nonsense there plenty of vacent bus shelters around the suburbs, why not meet there (ridiculous to say that you need a room. anybody can discuss things anywhere. why not in a bus shelter?

[Henry Hill]

if you want to start a group discussing this kind of nonsense there plenty of vacent bus shelters around the suburbs, why not meet there (ridiculous to say that you need a room. anybody can discuss things anywhere. why not in a bus shelter?

Your an idiot, I didn't start the thread and I never suggested meeting up with anyone to discuss anything. This is a current affairs forum, that why i was discussing current affairs.

Public expenditure needs to be cut in Ireland over the next few years. Lower taxes will aid growth by increases consumption and private investment in our economy. Low taxes means employers can employ people cheaper and people wages go further.

[Langer Dan]

It's an ideology adopted by morons about three hundred years too late.

[donpoblok]

Your an idiot, I didn't start the thread and I never suggested meeting up with anyone to discuss anything. This is a current affairs forum, that why i was discussing current affairs.

Public expenditure needs to be cut in Ireland over the next few years. Lower taxes will aid growth by increases consumption and private investment in our economy. Low taxes means employers can employ people cheaper and people wages go further.

Libertarians. You gotta love 'em
Still, its a free society and everybody is entitled to b/s away to their hearts content. And all good Libertarians would defend that notion to the hilt (of the sword they are usually sticking in somebody else's back in the name of their 'freedom'
Libertarianism....th e single most daft (i can hardly bear to use the word in connection with it) 'philosophy' on the planet
One thing I would say though: if there was only one person left on the planet Libertarianism would be fine. If there were two, a disaster!

[ubernerd]

i'm sure you'll fit right into North Korea. i think you should go there. one way.

Is that libertarian for "go back to Russia"?

http://media.southparkstudi os.com/media/images/905/905_randy_arrested.j pg

[Haro]

It's a truly idiotic ideology.

Really it is. And I wish more people knew that the South Park guys were uneducated hicks.

[Haro]

I'm pretty liberal in general. But you hear so much bullshit when it comes to reducing the welfare state in Ireland. People were on joe duffy saying how can anyone live on less than €204 a week. It is possible to live on less than a €100 a week if you get rent allowance and a medical card.
If less was spent on welfare and public sector salaries, they should get the market rate, we could cut vat or even get rid of it. It raises €10billion a year. If it was cut then all employers could cut wages without affecting the standard of living, and drastically improve our competitiveness

Just because you think it can doesn't mean it's possible. Not everyone has the same living situation.

Sorry but you're not an economist. Welfare is actually good right now because it keeps money pumped back into the economy. Our employment rate before the recession was 4% - what's wrong with that? That's a perfectly acceptable employment rate. You need a certain amount of unemployed people for "floating labour" and also because some people are so shit at working it's cheaper to keep them on the dole. Your thinking is an example of ideologies getting in the way of what's actually best, how can you have people lying around not earning their keep!? etc. But in the end it works best like that, so quite frankly fuck Ayn Rand in her homophobic ass.

Some people think people deserve a decent quality of life no matter their situation. €100 euros a week; minus minimum contribution for rent allowance(€24), minus electricity, heating, travel is probably another €26 or so, which leaves you with a whopping €50 for food. Merely existing just because you can't find a job yet, or are on long term disability, is like a form of torture which is why I think a lot of objectivists/libertarians are just flat out sociopaths or assholes. People on welfare shouldn't be getting snazzy cars or shit like that, but they should be able to have some kind of hobbies or social life, or food that isn't empty shit. If we can guarantee people that to some extent, it's not a bad thing at all. Again, your ideologies get in the way of what's actually fairest and what would be if we were as awesomely well run as Sweden, practical as well.

The US practises laissez faire economics more than anywhere else and what ever you say amount inequalities in soceity it has always provided a very high level of employment for its people and it has a GDP per capita of over $40000

Sweden is half socialist, has a good employment rate and is a much better place to live than the US. What's your point? You know that some US workers only get like 6 days off a year and bullshit like that? No thanks. Libertarians only care about their ideology, and not people, that's what annoys me.

[Henry Hill]

Just because you think it can doesn't mean it's possible. Not everyone has the same living situation.

Sorry but you're not an economist. Welfare is actually good right now because it keeps money pumped back into the economy. Our employment rate before the recession was 4% - what's wrong with that? That's a perfectly acceptable employment rate. You need a certain amount of unemployed people for "floating labour" and also because some people are so shit at working it's cheaper to keep them on the dole. Your thinking is an example of ideologies getting in the way of what's actually best, how can you have people lying around not earning their keep!? etc. But in the end it works best like that, so quite frankly fuck Ayn Rand in her homophobic ass.

Some people think people deserve a decent quality of life no matter their situation. €100 euros a week; minus minimum contribution for rent allowance(€24), minus electricity, heating, travel is probably another €26 or so, which leaves you with a whopping €50 for food. Merely existing just because you can't find a job yet, or are on long term disability, is like a form of torture which is why I think a lot of objectivists/libertarians are just flat out sociopaths or assholes. People on welfare shouldn't be getting snazzy cars or shit like that, but they should be able to have some kind of hobbies or social life, or food that isn't empty shit. If we can guarantee people that to some extent, it's not a bad thing at all. Again, your ideologies get in the way of what's actually fairest and what would be if we were as awesomely well run as Sweden, practical as well.



Sweden is half socialist, has a good employment rate and is a much better place to live than the US. What's your point? You know that some US workers only get like 6 days off a year and bullshit like that? No thanks. Libertarians only care about their ideology, and not people, that's what annoys me.

I agree with much of what you said. I'm not a liberatian or an economist, I just responed to the original post My knowledge of economics is limited to about 40 credits in ucc which isn't a whole pile.

I was just making the point that current government expenditure is unsustainable. I understand what your saying that welfare payment boost consumption but obviously this is not sustainable and we cannot afford the social security we enjoyed while times were good

[GisforGrenade]

All libertarians are interested in is pulling the ladder up after them and its laissez faire capitalism that destroyed the world economy, the free market great and all needs to be regulated or else the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will get poorer and the people in the middle will get squeezed out of existence.

[donpoblok]

the only people libterarians care about are themselves

they re fixated on thier own, what they call 'freedoms'

it is as if society doesnt exist

that is what makes it a truly nauseating philosophy

[KolaKubes]

the only people libterarians care about are themselves

they re fixated on thier own, what they call 'freedoms'

it is as if society doesnt exist

that is what makes it a truly nauseating philosophy

They're a natural by-product of a society that believe promoting ego-mania is good for your mental health when, in fact, taking an interest and concern in your fellow human beings is best.

[Pheas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPoCsC8VT9g

[Haro]

I agree with much of what you said. I'm not a liberatian or an economist, I just responed to the original post My knowledge of economics is limited to about 40 credits in ucc which isn't a whole pile.

I was just making the point that current government expenditure is unsustainable. I understand what your saying that welfare payment boost consumption but obviously this is not sustainable and we cannot afford the social security we enjoyed while times were good

Fair enough but we can't afford to cut things either, it depends which way you look at it. If people go bankrupt and local business shut down we're screwed anyway. At least it's "Possible" to keep borrowing to an extent.

[The Magnificent Specimen]

Libertarians are a group of people, predominantly French or of French descent who hate our freedomses, and liberties and want Islamicalists to run the world.They are the same as Nazis and hippies and Noam Chomsky.In fact Hitler invented libertarianism.The USA and Britain almost smashed the movement but the French Resistance kept it going in various mosques in the Paris catacombs.These fascists now secretly rule the world through passive aggressive propaganda made in Palestine by gay islamical suicide bombers swho think they can get married if their hero Buddha rules the world.

Wait........I mean lesbians, no, liberals.French lezzie fair types......... freedom haters.Fags shouldn't be allowed marry and I refuse to wear a burkha.Where do FF stand in all of this.

[The Magnificent Specimen]

5Xd_zkMEgkI

[Henry Hill]

Fair enough but we can't afford to cut things either, it depends which way you look at it. If people go bankrupt and local business shut down we're screwed anyway. At least it's "Possible" to keep borrowing to an extent.

We can and were in the euro which helps us. If debts get high enough there is a chance we may not be able to pay interest. This happened Mexico in the 1980's for example. If the IMF have to bail us out, they are about as right wing as you can get. They usually ask for public transport, water utilities to be auctioned off by the state and for them to be privatised. So this is the irony faced if we don't cut back gradually in years to come and live not within our means but closer to our means