Israel's Anti-Cork Bias

[debgor2]

:cool: I am to blame. I take full responsibility for The Irish PM not being allowed to visit Gaza. Besides I was only doing him a favor. You can't drink beer there. You can't eat pork and you certainly can't get drunk and piss in your bed. There are no taytos to munch on and no wanking. Instead I think he should help the flood victims. In lieu of his visit, I'll be sending him a dozen donuts in a variety of flavors, potato pancakes i.e. latkes and a draidel so he can experience both Channuka and heartburn.

[hemlock666]

You could also send him some of those chips off your shoulder...

[debgor2]

No chips, just french fries.

[Closer80]

Not freedom fries?? :o

[10PennySweets]

debgor , you are a muppet. Stop slagging Ireland and take a look at that place you claim to be from. Tyrranical shower of ...

[starchaser]

the IDF rock..

http://pix.motivatedphotos. com/2009/6/2/633795754810157120-idfbabes.jpg

[an liathroid beag]

:cool: I am to blame. I take full responsibility for The Irish PM not being allowed to visit Gaza. Besides I was only doing him a favor. You can't drink beer there. You can't eat pork and you certainly can't get drunk and piss in your bed. There are no taytos to munch on and no wanking. Instead I think he should help the flood victims. In lieu of his visit, I'll be sending him a dozen donuts in a variety of flavors, potato pancakes i.e. latkes and a draidel so he can experience both Channuka and heartburn.

I think that the Cork Republic should declare war on Israel for this snub of our own Michaeleen. We should spike their supply of Viagra with Rohypnol and when they are both impotent and incapacitated we could use Aer Lingus to parachute in the Norrie special forces. It would be a walk over. IDF my arse! --they have never seen a mad Norrie!:mad:

[ManielMan]

Assuming it was in jest:
LOL :)

Assuming you were serious/hostile:
I have nothing against Israel, but remove the wood from your eye, before you attempt to remove it from mine, for fear we will both be blind.
אין לי שום דבר נגד ישראל, אלא להסיר את העץ מן העין שלך, לפני שאתה מנסה להסיר אותו משלי, מחשש שנינו להיות עיוור.


Serious Q: Why was the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs not allowed in?

[ManielMan]

I noticed some of your posts before, and while I do not entirely disagree with what you say, I do not entirely agree either.
There will never be peace if you cannot learn to comprimise, let Northern Ireland be your proof.
Here is a prior (oversimplified) preparation of my thoughts:

Analysis time:

Everytime anybody makes any progress, some Palestinian halfwits get rocket launchers and start firing down into Israel, thereby giving Israel an excuse to go in and tear the country up.
Everytime Palestinians become militant, the Israelis call for military action and retaliation from their leaders.

Most people I know (who btw barely pay attention to the whole conflict because it just goes in circles) would support a Palestinian state.
But its unlikely that would ever happen.

If they could make Jerusalem a free city (like danzig/gdansk), and have an Israeli and Palenstinian state, maybe it might work.
But....
How many now orphaned children after the latest conflict will take their revenge in 10 years?
And 10 years after that?
And 10 years after that?
And the circle goes on. And on. And on.

Far too much blood been spilled by both sides for any chance of peace,
The ball is in Israel's court.
Some people say "Israel will not share the land".
We won't ever know if thats possible because of bloodshed.

Israel's "law of return" means every grain of sand in Palestine is needed to provide for all Israeli immigrants, the world over, since 1948.

If Palestinians could somehow find it in themselves to "turn the other cheek", like Ghandi or like Martin Luther King, eventually, at some stage, Israel would succumb to Politicial pressure........not just from Saudi Arabia but from the United States themselves.

With the United States guarding Israels back, they can do and will do whatever they please.

Analogy time:
The United states is the teacher in the school.
Israel is the big strong kid.
Palestine is the small weak kid.

Israel is seen beating Palestine and taking his lunch money.
All the pupils in the school yard are shocked and give Israel ****.
When the teacher goes to reprimand Israel, he sees Palestine getting some revenge and stamping on Israel's foot.
All the other kids see this too.

Instead of letting himself being the victim and let the entire school feel sorry for it and getting protection, Palestine is reacting and getting caught reacting, and then nobody knows if Israel was protecting himself or if Palestine was protecting himself.
The fact that Palestine is a cousin of some of the Arab children doesn't help its cause because they were seen slashing the tyres on the teachers car last week and the teacher thinks that Israel is defending himself because Palestine's cousins Syria and Egypt tried to beat up Israel a few times before, but the teacher always gives Israel a big feckoff stick to beat them up with.

As if that isn't messy enough, the teacher buys books that he can't run his class without from Saudi Arabia.
And Saudi Arabia's half cousin Iran has always hated the teacher every since the teacher sexually assaulted him in the library while no one was watching and takes every chance he can to get some revenge on the teacher or threaten him.
But since the teacher is by far the strongest and most well respected person there, the teacher will always come off looking good and consequently so will the agressive little bully Israel, the teachers pet.

Until Palestine learns how to curl up into a ball, learns how to cry and learns not to retaliate, the drama will continue.

Now I know thats a big retarded analogy.
But thats whats happening.

[debgor2]

It was written as humor. As for the norrie special forces, by the time they hit the ground they'll be dead..... dead drunk. As to why your PM wasn't allowed in, your guess is as good as mine. The next time I see Bibi I'll ask him.

[Cannabis]

i will destroy you

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/06/01-07/zohan-cast-you-don-t-mess-with-the-zohan-soundtrack.jpg

[optimus]

why cant everyone just be silky smooth

[debgor2]

Are you?

[Jinky]

http://www.thepeoplesvoice. org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/LAtuff_Israel__Criti cism_not_Allowed2_01 .JPG

[debgor2]

Jinky you posted on the wrong thread. This one is humorous.
JINKY
HUMOR
IS

ALLOWED

[Jinky]

Jinky you posted on the wrong thread. This one is humorous. JINKY
HUMOR
IS

ALLOWED

Ah come on now, pull the other one.

[3pointplay]

Liam2me must take some of the blame.

[10PennySweets]

Jinky you posted on the wrong thread. This one is humorous.
JINKY
HUMOR
IS

ALLOWED

yeah right debgor2. you are rattled because Israel's terrorism and apartheid is blatently on show in the main page and criticised (albeit in a humourous/slightly tongue in cheek manner, but blatant nonetheless) by the PROC writers.

I see clearly your attempts at making light of the article by attempting to play down the relevance of its content. Your style would normally be to defend, defend, defend.. or rather attack, attack, attack when presented with the truth about Israels diabolical human rights record. It is quite obvious that you are utilizing the propaganda skills of those you defend.

Read the article again. Its not so much that Michael martin has been denied access rather than a commentary on Israels refusal to comply with humanatarian ethics. I think all PROCers can pick up on the real issue here.

[10PennySweets]

I'm getting sick of that spanner

[RutlandStreet]

Doesn't degbor realise there has to be some humour to the humour? Its easy to say Mick is thick and drunk etc etc. There has to be more to it than that anyway. I think debgor missed the point here big time. I can laugh atmyself and my family if its cleverly done, begorrah.

[10PennySweets]

Debgor loves the attention and has self appointed herself as the brains on the forum.

In reality she is a deceptive spinster and a dangerous bigot.

[debgor2]

I get the humor and I laugh out loud. But sometimes you don't get my sense of humor. This entire thread is very funny. I'll let you in on a little secret most of what I see here is taken in humor because if I thought it was serious, I'd be on the next flight to Ireland with my entourage of Zohans.

[10PennySweets]

idiot. you complete idiot.

[starchaser]

the joooos are behind all this.. the joooooss.. the joooosss
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/SVtwyQGyyEI/AAAAAAAAGvc/v553Hh3WWGw/s400/islamic_rage_boy.jpg

[Corcaigh32]

Actually it was the usual suspects who are behind all this - to quote Eddie Izzard - "do you have a flag? oh you don't - we do......."

[The Magnificent Specimen]

i will destroy you

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/06/01-07/zohan-cast-you-don-t-mess-with-the-zohan-soundtrack.jpg

With my comedic lameness.I am Adam Sandler.I am not funny to anyone above the age of 6.Here is my finest work.
JVOVRZWrkgQ

A real side splitter.

[an liathroid beag]

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/ngedrekdek/military%20humOur/image008.jpg

The Norrie special forces!---have the IDF in their sights!

[debgor2]

Debgor loves the attention and has self appointed herself as the brains on the forum.

In reality she is a deceptive spinster and a dangerous bigot.
I want more than attention, I want to be worshipped. I want you crawl on your hands and knees and lick my black patent leather stilleto boots. I want to take my new whip and..... sorry I thought this was the sexual fantasy thread.

[10PennySweets]

I want more than attention, I want to be worshipped. I want you crawl on your hands and knees and lick my black patent leather stilleto boots. I want to take my new whip and..... sorry I thought this was the sexual fantasy thread.

Low self esteem there. Years of being left on the shelf.

[debgor2]

I'm not on the shelf but I might put you there as a trophy.

[10PennySweets]

I'm not on the shelf but I might put you there as a trophy.


stupid old lady

[ANVIL]

Low self esteem there. Years of being left on the shelf.

I know in a previous post I wrote that a congealed horse turd probably had more brains than you.
On reflection I think I should have omitted the word probably.

[debgor2]

stupid old lady
You got the lady part right.

[superfantango]

Hey debgor what do you make of these guys?

Jews Against Zionism

by Stephen Lendman
Monday, 7 December 2009
www.baltimorechronic le.com (http://baltimorechronicle.c om)


They're numerous, outspoken, and range from secular to orthodox to one group calling itself "True Torah Jews Against Zionism."

They believe that "traditional" Jews don't support Zionism, an ideology they call "contrary to Jewish law and beliefs and the teachings of the Holy Torah." They say Zionism:

* advocates "a political and military end to the Jewish exile;"
* fosters "pseudo-Judaism" based on secular nationalism;
* coercively seeks "armed materialism" in place of "a Divine and Torah centered understanding;"
* endangers all Jews worldwide;
* wants to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from ideological Zionism; and
* calls Israel a "Zionist State," not a Jewish one.

They:

* cite their concern for "peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state" and in Occupied Palestine;
* say from ancient times until 100 years ago, Jews and Arabs lived in peace and friendship until Zionism changed the relationship;
* believe Zionists abandoned the Torah and traditional Judaism, demanded political sovereignty over the Holy Land, and aroused anger in the Arab world; and
* Torah Jewry doesn't recognize or support a Zionist state; nor do they represent world Jews; even the name "Israel" is a "forgery," they believe, because the Torah forbids violence in the words of the prophet Isaiah who said:

"And they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword against any other, nor will they learn warfare anymore."

Toray Jewry says that believing Zionism protects Jews is "probably the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the Jewish People" and accuses Zionists of fostering global anti-Semitism. "Indeed, hatred of Jews and Jewish suffering is the oxygen of the Zionist movement, and from the very beginning has been (used) to deliberately incite hatred to justify the existence of the Zionist state - this is, of course, Machiavellianism raised to the highest order."

Zionist founder Theodor Herzl (1860 - 1904) said:

"It is essential that the suffering of Jews....becomes worse....this will assist in (the) realization of our plans....I have an excellent idea....I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth....The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends."

In 1920, other Zionists voiced similar ideas, including Nahum Goldmann, later president of the World Zionist Organization and World Jewish Congress head. Israel's first president, Chaim Weizman, said Germany had too many Jews. In 1921, Jacob Klatzkin called for German Jews to undermine Jewish communities as a way to acquire a future state.

In 1963, Moshe Sharett (Israel's second prime minister from 1953 - 1955) told the 38th Scandinavian Youth Federation Annual Congress that Jewish freedom imperiled Zionism. Delegates at the 26th World Zionist Congress were told that easing US anti-Semitism and freedom endangered Jews.

Torah Jewry disagrees in affirming its desire to live in peace with their Arab and Palestinian neighbors and abide by sacred commandments "with a perfect heart and to delight in the radiance of the sanctity of the Land."

They believe: "Zionists have no right of any sovereignty over even one inch of the Holy Land. They do not represent the Jewish people in any way whatsoever. They have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people." Their ideology is "antithetical to Jewish law," and because they don't behave like Jews, "they desecrate the sanctity of the land." They feel that when Israel is recognized as a Zionist, not a Jewish, state, "Jews worldwide will be able to live in peace" and do it alongside Arabs in the Middle East.
"The Hidden History of Zionism"

In his 1988 book, Ralph Schoenman explained four Zionist myths:

* the notion of "A land without people for a people without a land" to promote the fiction that an empty Palestine was there for the taking by its rightful original inhabitants;
* Israeli democracy, the only "real" one in the Middle East; in fact, Israel is democratic like South Africa was apartheid and much worse; "Civil liberty, due process and the most basic human rights" apply only for Jews;
* "security (is) the motor force of Israeli foreign policy" because it's surrounded by hostile Arab states; and
* "Zionism (is) the moral legatee of the victims of the Holocaust....the most pervasive and insidious of the" Zionist myths; in fact, Zionists, like future prime minister Yitzhak Shamir, openly colluded with the Nazis for their own purposes - to use persecution as justification for a future Zionist state and more.

It wasn't just to colonize Palestine. It was also to exploit indigenous people as cheap labor, dispossess and disperse them, replace them with arriving Jews, legitimize ethnic cleansing, and remove Palestinians from their land and history. Historical records were falsified. "Palestinians were re-invented as a semi-savage, nomadic remnant." Mass elimination methods were justified for a "people too many."

In 1923, hard line revisionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky argued that Arab nationalists opposed a Jewish state and wouldn't accept one. Thus peaceful coexistence was unattainable, and Jews had to build "an iron wall of (superior) Jewish military force." The idea was to discourage Arab hopes of destroying Israel followed by a negotiated settlement giving Israel the upper hand to dictate terms.

Terror was to be used the way Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department, wrote in 1940:

"Between ourselves, it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to (get rid of) all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

The secret Koenig Report, later published in 1976, said:

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-Election of Tel Aviv mayor Shlomo Lahat (1974 - 1993) stated:

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."

Former IDF Chief of Staff Raphael Eitan (1978 - 1983) said:

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel....Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."

Other Israeli leaders voiced similar extremism, including David Ben Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, saying in 1937 that "We must expel the Arabs and take their place and if we have to use force, to guarantee our own right to settle in those places - then we have force at our disposal."

At inception, Zionists like Herzl were pragmatic, yet devious, in believing imperial power backing was needed to establish a Jewish state. It could have been anywhere, but Palestine was chosen for its symbolic significance as the ancient Jewish homeland. Colonization began after the first Zionist Congress in Basle, Switzerland in 1897. Herzl later wrote:

"At Basle, I founded the Jewish state....If not in five years, then certainly in fifty everyone will realize it." It took 51 by dispossessing indigenous Palestinians and replacing them with Jews. Ever since, Zionism's most effective legitimacy claim is the notion of preventing another "Holocaust." It's justified the most outrageous crimes, characterized as "self-defense" by a tiny Jewish minority surrounded by hordes of hostile Arabs. It seized Palestinian land, Judaized it, created a new nation for Jews alone - undemocratic, imperial, militant, violent, exploitive, oppressive, racist, and hostile to core Judaic dogma.

It's why growing thousands of Jews globally oppose an ideology based on power, conquest, dispossession, and violation of the most fundamental Jewish ethical and moral teachings, ones Zionists disdain.

[10PennySweets]

I know in a previous post I wrote that a congealed horse turd probably had more brains than you.
On reflection I think I should have omitted the word probably.

on a previous post you claim to have "chastised" a barman for calling a Nigerian customer "a nigger" and somehow managed to have the barman removed from the premises.

You were run off the forum for being full of shite and making up stories to appear a hero.

So shush nerd boy. Keep your trap shut.

[10PennySweets]

You got the lady part right.

old spinster. So whats it illegally occupying Palestine?

[superfantango]

Not In My Name

It calls itself a "predominantly Jewish organization deeply committed to a peaceful and just resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, a resolution that will provide safety, security and freedom for Jews, Palestinians, and all others living in this region." It opposes:

* the illegal West Bank and Gaza occupations;
* the West Bank and East Jerusalem settlements;
* Israel's Separation Wall;
* the collective punishment of millions of Occupied Palestinians and Israeli Arabs; and
* Israeli human rights abuses, home demolitions, land seizures, arbitrary arrests, torture, travel and movement restrictions, and closure and encirclements of villages and communities.

It champions Palestinian self-determination, the right of return, and "full equality, civil rights and economic justice for all." It's for a shared Jerusalem and nuclear-free Middle East. It wants an end to violence and injustice and the equitable sharing of vital resources, including water, oil, gas, electric power, and all other essentials to life and well-being. It wants all US aid stopped until Israel ends its occupation and acts like a civilized state.

It deplores Zionism and what it represents. It's activists have chapters around the world. They organize protests and demonstrations, hold vigils and religious ceremonies, communicate with the media, foster dialogue between Jews and Palestinians, sponsor teach-ins, educational forums and study groups.

They believe that moral human beings are obligated "to speak out and take action." They refuse to remain silent or accept Israeli crimes passively. They're one among other like-minded organizations that say "Not In My Name." Not now or ever.

Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP)

JVP is "a diverse and democratic community of activists inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, and human rights." They support the aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination. Their agenda mirrors Not In My Name and states that "We are among the many American Jews who say to the US and Israeli governments: "Not in our names!"

They call on America and the international community to end wars and violence and support Palestinian self-determination free from occupation and oppression. They headline: "Israelis and Palestinians. Two Peoples, One Future," free from Zionist oppression.

Brit Tzedek V'Shalom

It's a Jewish Alliance for Justice & Peace calling itself "America's largest grassroots Jewish organization dedicated to promoting a negotiated two-state resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." With around 50,000 supporters, including over 1,000 rabbis, they educate and organize the US Jewish community for a US foreign policy supportive of Israelis and Palestinians alike. It conducts campaigns, holds conferences, sponsors tours, and engages in various other activist efforts.

Its founding principles include:

* evacuating Israeli settlements;
* non-violent solutions in place of state terrorism and "state-initiated violence;"
* "a complete end to the Israeli military occupation," including over East Jerusalem;
* a viable Palestinian state based on pre-1967 borders;
* Jerusalem as the capital of both states, free and open to all Muslims, Jews, Christians and others;
* "a just resolution of the Palestinian refugee problem;" and
* "the recognition that (US) Jews....have a special responsibility to urge (their) government to pursue policies consistent with the requirements of a just peace for Israel and the Palestinian people."

[superfantango]

Tikkun

It publishes articles on social theory, religion and spirituality, social change, contemporary American and global politics and economics, Israel/Palestine, and other topics. It features issues that "both advance the pursuit of tikkun olam - social justice and the repair of the world - and break down issues of contemporary concern in completely new and thoughtful ways." It supports progressive spirituality and challenges established orthodoxies in all spheres of thought and politics. It's "dedicated to healing and transforming (a troubled) world."

Its editor is Rabbi Michael Lerner, author of "The Left Hand of God: Taking Our Country Back from the Religious Right," and "Jewish Renewal: A Path to Healing and Transformation." On May 8, 2008 on the HuffingtonPost.com, writing "On Zionism, Healing, and Israel's 60th Anniversary," he noted how Palestinians were dispossessed of their homes and villages by Jews "determined to be as ruthless towards others as others had been towards" them. "Yet, there are alternatives" not taken so conflict ever since has persisted.

As for Zionism, he described what emerged as "fundamentally incompatible with the highest values of the Jewish tradition, and must be rejected even as we develop a compassionate attitude toward the Jewish people of Israel." To preserve Judaism, Lerner quotes the following Torah injunction:

"When you come into your land, do not oppress the stranger: remember that you were strangers in the land of Egypt. A Jewish state that has been unwilling or unable to live by that command has no religious foundation and can generate no lasting support from those committed to God and Torah."

Doing it right requires abandoning "a naive utopian fantasy" and building a society based on "open-heartedness, compassion and caring for others...." Abandoning Zionist extremism for traditional Jewish moral values is essential.

Satmar

They're "Jews Not Zionists" and quote Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum in 1958 speaking out against Zionist heresy:

"....if we place all the immodesty and promiscuity of the generation and the many sins of the world on one side of the scale, and the Zionist state on the other side of the scale by itself, it would outweigh them all. Zionism is the greatest form of spiritual impurity in the entire world. (It's) polluting the entire world. (It's) polluted the Jewish people with (its) heresy....Everything our blessed rabbis cried out about earlier in the century about the dangers of Zionism (have) been forgotten....It is impossible to describe to what extent the world has become sunken in such a falsehood which is destroying the entire Torah."

Jews Not Zionists believe that Zionism is heresy, and "the existence of the so-called 'State of Israel' is illegitimate." Zionism violated Torah doctrine, the very essence of Judaism. It believes that human life is sacred and human rights aren't to be denied by those who would sacrifice them for national security or any other reason.

"Judaism and Zionism are by no means the same. Indeed they are incompatible and irreconcilable." Good Jews can't be Zionists, and Zionists can't be good Jews. According to Jewish tradition, seven universal Noacide morality laws apply to everyone. Also the Ten Commandments for all monotheistic religions, and another 613 obligatory laws for traditional Jews.

They eschew violence, military power, and brute force. They're about morality and spiritual purity. Zionists made belief in the Torah and fulfillment of religious obligations a private matter, not a common obligation for all Jews. They made Judaic dogma subject to party or parliamentary votes and set their own ethical and moral standards, suiting them alone.

Many times in Jewish history, an extremist minority misled the majority. Worshiping the golden calf happened earlier. Today it's political Zionism. Before its emergence, piety, decency, learning, and belief in justice and mercy characterized most Jewish leaders. Now they're the minority. It's why they believe a good Jew can't be a Zionist, and a Zionist can't be a good Jew and aren't the legitimate spokespersons for anyone but themselves. From a religious point of view, they're heretics.

Jews Against Racist Zionism

They include distinguished figures who speak out for "anti-racist Jews and indeed all anti-racist humanitarians." They decry "anti-Arab anti-Semitic racist Zionists running Apartheid Israel and their Western backers." They're appalled by the continuing Palestinian, Iraqi, and Afghan genocides that have killed and dispossessed millions. They see Zionism as a threat to all Jews and humanity unless something is done to stop it.

Neturei Karta International (NKI)

NKI is an Aramaic term for "Guardians of the City," given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who "opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called 'State of Israel!' " They demonstrate publicly and state their belief in the Torah and "authentic unadulterated Judaism.''

In 1938, NKI was founded in Jerusalem to struggle against Zionism. Most of its members now live outside Israel, many in New York where they're prominent, vocal, and ignored by the dominant media.

For refusing to accept Zionism, they were harassed, incarcerated, and physically tortured by "Zionist police and agents." As a result, they scattered internationally and established synagogues, educational institutions, publishing houses and organizations espousing their beliefs.

They're orthodox, but not ultra-orthodox or extremist. They've "added nothing to nor have taken anything away from the written and oral law of the Torah as it is expressed in the Halacha (traditional Jewish law) and the Shulchan Aruch (codification of Jewish law)."

They're allied with many thousands of other Jews sharing similar anti-Zionist views. They oppose the "State of Israel (because) the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish law." It conflicts with traditional Judaism.

They quote Talmudic doctrine teaching that Jews are prohibited from using force to establish a Jewish state or to rebel against other nations. "Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars."

"The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism. The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them....The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!"

NKI seeks peace and reconciliation with people of all faiths and nations. Of greatest concern is reconciling with the Muslim world after decades of Zionist abuses. They support peace, justice, and the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homeland.

They decry Zionist propaganda, bullying tactics, censorship and lies. Its weapon is state terror. Its dogma is a profound disregard for human life and moral values. Its false idol is a "lack of truth on its side."

NKI notes how greater numbers of people now question Zionism, its version of history, and values. They blame it for massive bloodshed and suffering and believe they'll be no Middle East peace until there's no more State of Israel, at least under Zionism. They think that a coalition of anti-Zionist Jews and Palestinians can unite as a moral force for peace and good in the world. They welcome the abolition of Zionism "in a peaceful manner."

"We're not celebrating Israel's anniversary"

In a public April 30, 2008 petition, Harold Pinter was among 105 prominent Jews who said "we....will not be celebrating" Israel's May 2008 60th anniversary. They noted the 1948 slaughter and dispossession of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, the destruction of their villages, their erasure from history, the 1967 occupation, the continued persecution for decades, the defiling of international law, and utter contempt for human rights and peaceful coexistence. They stated:

"We cannot celebrate the birthday of a state founded on terrorism, massacres and the dispossession of another people from their land. We cannot celebrate the birthday of a state that even now engages in ethnic cleansing, that violates international law, that is inflicting a monstrous collective punishment on the civilian population of Gaza and that continues to deny to Palestinians their human rights and national aspirations."

"We will celebrate when Arab and Jew live as equals in a peaceful Middle East," something impossible under Zionism.

A Final Comment

At its core, Zionism is fundamentally racist, extremist, undemocratic, and militant:

* in espousing Jewish supremacy, exceptionalism, and uniqueness as God's "chosen people;"
* in relying on occupation, oppression, violence and dispossession;
* in justifying a Jewish ethnocracy based on structural inequalities;
* in ruling by force, not coexistence;
* in choosing confrontation over diplomacy and the rule of law; and
* by denying Arabs and all others the same rights as Jews.

No ideology that destructive can endure. No regional peace and reconciliation is possible until it's repudiated.

[an liathroid beag]

old spinster. So whats it illegally occupying Palestine?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/sfra14/bebe.jpg

Lost your rattle again, Sweety??

[10PennySweets]

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/sfra14/bebe.jpg

Lost your rattle again, Sweety??

Sorry, who are you talking to?

[babybliss]

Sorry, who are you talking to?

Let me guess....YOU perhaps:crazyeye:

[10PennySweets]

Let me guess....YOU perhaps:crazyeye:

I like the sentence structure. You must be funny in real life. Are you?

[babybliss]

I like the sentence structure. You must be funny in real life. Are you?
Run along now little boy:twisted:

[10PennySweets]

Run along now little boy:twisted:

Whats wrong with ya?

[babybliss]

Whats wrong with ya?

Where do I start?:(

[10PennySweets]

Why you askin me where you start?

[superfantango]

poo, its like an especially bad fuckin pantomime on here, whats with the petty one-up-manship? you sound like a bunch of twats, no you sound like a twat. oh no i dont. no really you do.

[debgor2]

This is for superfantango: What do I think of those guys? My opinion is based on my experiences growing up in New York as a secular Jew and feeling the passion of Zionism and my closeness to God which led to my decision to make aliyah i.e. return to the Jewish homeland of Israel. A good reporter when quoting should allow his readers to research the material used. I can't comment on Eitan, or Herzl or anyone else without reading the source. Zionism is a word which people throw around without understanding what it was and what it is today. This isn't the place to go into detail. I will say that land was legally purchased and Jerusalem was always the heart of Israel and the Jewish people long before Mohammed or Jesus existed and it will remain one united city, the capital of Israel.

[superfantango]

This is for superfantango: What do I think of those guys? My opinion is based on my experiences growing up in New York as a secular Jew and feeling the passion of Zionism and my closeness to God which led to my decision to make aliyah i.e. return to the Jewish homeland of Israel. A good reporter when quoting should allow his readers to research the material used. I can't comment on Eitan, or Herzl or anyone else without reading the source. Zionism is a word which people throw around without understanding what it was and what it is today. This isn't the place to go into detail. I will say that land was legally purchased and Jerusalem was always the heart of Israel and the Jewish people long before Mohammed or Jesus existed and it will remain one united city, the capital of Israel.

But at what cost? Are forced evictions okay in order to preserve this united city? And I agree the word Zionism is often thrown about flippantly, however a lot of people do understand what it is and its implications.

AQNX07NyoDc

[10PennySweets]

But at what cost? Are forced evictions okay in order to preserve this united city? And I agree the word Zionism is often thrown about flippantly, however a lot of people do understand what it is and its implications.

AQNX07NyoDc


getting on to me about acting like I'm in a bad pantomime".

You are engaging in dialogue with an American who believes in the illegal occupation on someone elses land.

Debgor is a dangerous bigot.

[hemlock666]

This is for superfantango: What do I think of those guys? My opinion is based on my experiences growing up in New York as a secular Jew and feeling the passion of Zionism and my closeness to God which led to my decision to make aliyah i.e. return to the Jewish homeland of Israel. A good reporter when quoting should allow his readers to research the material used. I can't comment on Eitan, or Herzl or anyone else without reading the source. Zionism is a word which people throw around without understanding what it was and what it is today. This isn't the place to go into detail. I will say that land was legally purchased and Jerusalem was always the heart of Israel and the Jewish people long before Mohammed or Jesus existed and it will remain one united city, the capital of Israel.

Yep we're gonna try and weed out the vikings, the normans and anglo saxons in Ireland as well cause even though they're here for countless generations they don't own the place, as we have a deed from god telling us only we can live here.
That progressive attitude deserves all the war, terror and religious hatred it invokes.

[superfantango]

getting on to me about acting like I'm in a bad pantomime".

You are engaging in dialogue with an American who believes in the illegal occupation on someone elses land.

Debgor is a dangerous bigot.

I didn't say you were a bad pantomime if you read the post again, regardless. debgor maybe a dangerous bigot, a zealot or just the other side of the coin, however name calling and smarminess isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Informed debate might. Kapeesh?

[debgor2]

Can you please explain to me superfantango who are the palestinian people, what are their origins and where have they lived for the last 5,000 years? I'm asking you in a tone of respect, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

[10PennySweets]

I didn't say you were a bad pantomime if you read the post again, regardless. debgor maybe a dangerous bigot, a zealot or just the other side of the coin, however name calling and smarminess isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Informed debate might. Kapeesh?


I'm afraid that even though you may wish to debate, you are struggling against propoganda, years of conditioned brainwashing and a belief that they have a god given right to clear people off their own land and live there.

She is a New Yorker who is convinced that it is HER land.

No use debating

[debgor2]

Propaganda and brainwashing. Sorry but no, not in my case. I was a New Yorker, I'm now a Israeli. I'm all for debate. It's perfectly fine to disagree with one another but not by name calling.

[superfantango]

Can you please explain to me superfantango who are the palestinian people, what are their origins and where have they lived for the last 5,000 years? I'm asking you in a tone of respect, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

If you don't know you should buy a book on it, there's plenty of reading out there and I'm not trying to be a smart ass either but I really couldn't be bothered getting into a history lesson. I see where you are going with this arguement and i think its terribly flawed, should peace in Ireland be abandoned to take back by force the six counties that are currently part of the UK? Should we root out those whose ancestors were planted here over 800 years ago and forcibly evict them from their CURRENT homes?

Your belief in the promised land and all that jazz comes from an ancient religious text, no? As an athiest, humanist, godless pagan or whatever you like, that just seems like folly to me. I'm all for the people and the state of Israel, just not the occupation, separation barrier, illegal settlements, disproportionate use of force, kidnappings, forced evictions, non-proliferation hypocrisy, ignored UN resolutions, the list goes on.

uj7slnbKw-w

[pudgee]

This is the stupidest thread on the Internet. I haven't even read it, but I know this to be true

[debgor2]

Pudgee, this thread was a parody that was taken seriously.

[superfantango]

i dont think it was taken seriously, i think it just diverged.

[10PennySweets]

Happy Christmas to Israelis everywhere.

[10PennySweets]

:x-mas::x-mas::x-mas::x-mas:

Happy Christmas! Peace on earth

[debgor2]

Oh 10pennysweets are you afraid that Santa won't bring you any presents?
Happy Hannuka to you too sweety pie.

[10PennySweets]

Oh 10pennysweets are you afraid that Santa won't bring you any presents?
Happy Hannuka to you too sweety pie.

make sure you go to confession

[debgor2]

Confession?? Boy you have the wrong and I mean WRONG religion.

[10PennySweets]

Oh yeah sorry you are a Zionist.

Apologies.

[debgor2]

Zionism isn't a religion.

[10PennySweets]

Do you like to dress up for christmas?

[10PennySweets]

I'd say you hunt the wren on stephens day lad? Ya big feckin farmer ya. Dont come near my place or you'll I'll make ya sing more than wan song before you get a few bob off of me.

[Dorcha]

I believe this all started as a joke. But I have to say I'm with the Israelis on this. I wouldn't let Martin into my house, either. And I'm not joking.

[nico]

You got the lady part right.

You're 58 Debbie - that's old